Mouthpiece Work / Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
FROM: kenlphotos (Ken Lagace Photos)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
I have use fifteen gauges for many, many years. I found the 0.20 and 0.001 gauges have rescued many refacing puzzles. I use an old “O’Brien System” glass gauge and clamp the mouthpiece to the glass with a modified Rovner baritone saxophone ligature to assure no movement while taking fifteen measurements. I also use a tapered metal gauge for the tip numbers. I don’t remember its origin. Attached is my work Excel file. There are the numbers at the top for about 30 mouthpieces. The numbers of the best for me are in red and the Chedeville blank numbers are the mouthpiece I play today. Below are some calculations that are very helpful. The numbers of the mouthpiece to copy are compared to the numbers you are measuring and differences are displayed. Copy/Paste the numbers you want to copy in the red column and enter the numbers you are measuring in the green column. The calculations tell how much you are over or under and what needs to be changed. This has been developed over many years of refacing. I offer it without any guarantees. Comments are welcome. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:50 AM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS Thanks for the help Keith! I'm trying to look for facing measurements that uses more than 4 feelers, so like around 8? That would give me an idea of the exact ideal shape for clarinet mouthpiece facings ( I know that different manufacturers have slightly different ideal shapes but I'm sure they all have somewhat a similar curve). It would really help to get measurements of many good clarinet mouthpieces so that I can see what is consistent among the facing curves of them. I live quite far away from music stores that sell good clarinet mouthpieces and my only good mouthpiece is the one I've already posted. Could any clarinet playing members send me some measurements (using the 0.0015, 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.020, 0.025, 0.030, 0.035 feeler gauges or something like that, no less than this if possible) of their favorite clarinet mouthpieces if they don't mind? It would really help me out!! If I get lucky and get donated a few measurements and end up discovering something from them I will certainly share it with the group. Cheers! Harim
FROM: harim0suprem0 ()
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
Wow, thank you so much Ken! This was EXACTLY what I was looking for. You cannot imagine how much I appreciate this!!! Cheers, Harim
FROM: kenlphotos (Ken Lagace Photos)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
You are welcome and I am awaiting to hear what you find out. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:20 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS Wow, thank you so much Ken! This was EXACTLY what I was looking for. You cannot imagine how much I appreciate this!!! Cheers, Harim
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment]
This is a nice resource Ken. Just an FYI: your feeler gauge decimal points are off by one place. Like .42 should be .042".
From: "'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment]
[Attachment(s) from Ken Lagace Photos included below] I have use fifteen gauges for many, many years. I found the 0.20 and 0.001 gauges have rescued many refacing puzzles.I use an old “O’Brien System” glass gauge and clamp the mouthpiece to the glass with a modified Rovner baritone saxophone ligature to assure no movement while taking fifteen measurements. I also use a tapered metal gauge for the tip numbers. I don’tremember its origin. Attached is my work Excel file. There are the numbers at the top for about 30 mouthpieces. The numbers of the best for me are in red and the Chedeville blank numbers are the mouthpiece I play today.Below are some calculations that are very helpful. The numbers of the mouthpiece to copy are compared to the numbers you are measuring and differences are displayed. Copy/Paste the numbers you want to copy in the red column and enter the numbers you are measuring in the green column. The calculations tell how much you are over or under and what needs to be changed. This has been developed over many years of refacing. I offer it without any guarantees.Comments are welcome.KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:50 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS Thanks for the help Keith! I'm trying to look for facing measurements that uses more than 4 feelers, so like around 8? That would give me an idea of the exact ideal shape for clarinet mouthpiece facings ( I know that different manufacturers have slightly different ideal shapes but I'm sure they all have somewhat a similar curve). It would really help to get measurements of many good clarinet mouthpieces so that I can see what is consistent among the facing curves of them. I live quite far away from music stores that sell good clarinet mouthpieces and my only good mouthpiece is the one I've already posted. Could any clarinet playing members send me some measurements (using the 0.0015, 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.020, 0.025, 0.030, 0.035 feeler gauges or something like that, no less than this if possible) of their favorite clarinet mouthpieces if they don't mind? It would really help me out!! If I get lucky and get donated a few measurements and end up discovering something from them I will certainly share it with the group.
Cheers!
Harim #yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654 -- #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp #yiv2801349654hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp #yiv2801349654ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp .yiv2801349654ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp .yiv2801349654ad p {margin:0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mkp .yiv2801349654ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ygrp-lc #yiv2801349654hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ygrp-lc .yiv2801349654ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654activity span .yiv2801349654underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 dd.yiv2801349654last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 dd.yiv2801349654last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 dd.yiv2801349654last p span.yiv2801349654yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654file-title a, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654file-title a:active, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654file-title a:hover, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654photo-title a, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654photo-title a:active, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654photo-title a:hover, #yiv2801349654 div.yiv2801349654photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 div#yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2801349654ygrp-msg p a span.yiv2801349654yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv2801349654 o {font-size:0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv2801349654 .yiv2801349654replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv2801349654 input, #yiv2801349654 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv2801349654 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-mlmsg #yiv2801349654logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-msg p#yiv2801349654attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-reco #yiv2801349654reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-sponsor #yiv2801349654ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv2801349654 #yiv2801349654ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv2801349654
FROM: kenlphotos (Ken Lagace Photos)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
Thanks for the info – it is just my shortcut – and part of my “Not Guaranteed” caveat. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 4:02 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS This is a nice resource Ken. Just an FYI: your feeler gauge decimal points are off by one place. Like .42 should be .042". _____ From: "'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:04 PM Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] [ <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=ad32trmkfifhl#TopText> Attachment(s) from Ken Lagace Photos included below] I have use fifteen gauges for many, many years. I found the 0.20 and 0.001 gauges have rescued many refacing puzzles. I use an old “O’Brien System” glass gauge and clamp the mouthpiece to the glass with a modified Rovner baritone saxophone ligature to assure no movement while taking fifteen measurements. I also use a tapered metal gauge for the tip numbers. I don’t remember its origin. Attached is my work Excel file. There are the numbers at the top for about 30 mouthpieces. The numbers of the best for me are in red and the Chedeville blank numbers are the mouthpiece I play today. Below are some calculations that are very helpful. The numbers of the mouthpiece to copy are compared to the numbers you are measuring and differences are displayed. Copy/Paste the numbers you want to copy in the red column and enter the numbers you are measuring in the green column. The calculations tell how much you are over or under and what needs to be changed. This has been developed over many years of refacing. I offer it without any guarantees. Comments are welcome. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:50 AM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS Thanks for the help Keith! I'm trying to look for facing measurements that uses more than 4 feelers, so like around 8? That would give me an idea of the exact ideal shape for clarinet mouthpiece facings ( I know that different manufacturers have slightly different ideal shapes but I'm sure they all have somewhat a similar curve). It would really help to get measurements of many good clarinet mouthpieces so that I can see what is consistent among the facing curves of them. I live quite far away from music stores that sell good clarinet mouthpieces and my only good mouthpiece is the one I've already posted. Could any clarinet playing members send me some measurements (using the 0.0015, 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.020, 0.025, 0.030, 0.035 feeler gauges or something like that, no less than this if possible) of their favorite clarinet mouthpieces if they don't mind? It would really help me out!! If I get lucky and get donated a few measurements and end up discovering something from them I will certainly share it with the group. Cheers! Harim
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
What does your "Tip" row represent? How does (29) for a B45 relate to the tip opening? > On Feb 13, 2016, at 8:21 PM, 'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the info – it is just my shortcut – and part of my “Not Guaranteed” caveat. > > KenL > > > > From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 4:02 PM > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS > > > > > > This is a nice resource Ken. Just an FYI: your feeler gauge decimal points are off by one place. Like .42 should be .042". > > > > From: "'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:04 PM > Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Ken Lagace Photos included below] > > I have use fifteen gauges for many, many years. I found the 0.20 and 0.001 gauges have rescued many refacing puzzles. > > I use an old “O’Brien System” glass gauge and clamp the mouthpiece to the glass with a modified Rovner baritone saxophone > > ligature to assure no movement while taking fifteen measurements. I also use a tapered metal gauge for the tip numbers. I don’t > > remember its origin. > > > > Attached is my work Excel file. There are the numbers at the top for about 30 mouthpieces. The numbers of the best for me > > are in red and the Chedeville blank numbers are the mouthpiece I play today. > > Below are some calculations that are very helpful. The numbers of the mouthpiece to copy are compared to the numbers you > > are measuring and differences are displayed. > > > > Copy/Paste the numbers you want to copy in the red column and enter the numbers you are measuring in the green column. > > The calculations tell how much you are over or under and what needs to be changed. > > > > This has been developed over many years of refacing. I offer it without any guarantees. > > Comments are welcome. > > KenL > > > > From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:50 AM > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS > > > > > > Thanks for the help Keith! I'm trying to look for facing measurements that uses more than 4 feelers, so like around 8? That would give me an idea of the exact ideal shape for clarinet mouthpiece facings ( I know that different manufacturers have slightly different ideal shapes but I'm sure they all have somewhat a similar curve). It would really help to get measurements of many good clarinet mouthpieces so that I can see what is consistent among the facing curves of them. I live quite far away from music stores that sell good clarinet mouthpieces and my only good mouthpiece is the one I've already posted. Could any clarinet playing members send me some measurements (using the 0.0015, 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.020, 0.025, 0.030, 0.035 feeler gauges or something like that, no less than this if possible) of their favorite clarinet mouthpieces if they don't mind? It would really help me out!! If I get lucky and get donated a few measurements and end up discovering something from them I will certainly share it with the group. > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > Harim > > > > > > >
FROM: harim0suprem0 ()
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
I've graphed up around half of your mouthpieces that were of interest to me using XY scatter graphs. I have not included the tip opening and the .0010 feeler (because I'm lazy) but anyway I hope you find it interesting! We can see that although the mouthpieces were made from different brands and have different length facings it is incredibly obvious that they were all trying to create a similar shape (Sharp curve near the start of the facing and kind of flat afterwards, not a circular curve) Also, I can see why your Chedevillemouthpiece blank is your favorite! It has the least low/high spots and is a really nice smooth curve compared to other mouthpieces. I've added two of my own mouthpieces, a good one and a not so good one. I have measured them very carefully quite a few times so I am sure they are accurate readings. Thanks again for lending your data Ken! I have learnt more than enough from them and I hope that other clarinet mpce refacers just starting out find this post useful too. And if I made any mistakes anywhere whether it be what I said or a mistake in the graphs please let me know! Cheers,' Harim
FROM: kenlphotos (Ken Lagace Photos)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment]
I like your graphs – they look different than mine – and I never heard of ‘XY scatter graphs’. Could you explain how they are different and how to make them? There are some anomalies there that may improve my technique. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:05 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from harim0suprem0@... [MouthpieceWork] included below] I've graphed up around half of your mouthpieces that were of interest to me using XY scatter graphs. I have not included the tip opening and the .0010 feeler (because I'm lazy) but anyway I hope you find it interesting! We can see that although the mouthpieces were made from different brands and have different length facings it is incredibly obvious that they were all trying to create a similar shape (Sharp curve near the start of the facing and kind of flat afterwards, not a circular curve) Also, I can see why your Chedeville mouthpiece blank is your favorite! It has the least low/high spots and is a really nice smooth curve compared to other mouthpieces. I've added two of my own mouthpieces, a good one and a not so good one. I have measured them very carefully quite a few times and I am really disappointed with the facing of my good mouthpiece! I paid a large amount of money for it. The reason I bought it was because I heard that they were incredibly well-made mouthpieces, the best of the best. Thanks again for lending your data Ken! <https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo31.gif> I have learnt more than enough from them and I hope that other clarinet mpce refacers just starting out find this post useful too. And if I made any mistakes anywhere whether it be what I said or a mistake in the graphs please let me know! Cheers,' Harim
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
When it comes to sax facing curves, bumps and flat spots are generally not a good feature. But with clarinet facings, blended bumps may give resistance in spots where you like it. So if you "fix" the irregularities in your favorite mouthpiece, you may no longer like it as much. Also, you need to include the tip opening and tip rail width in your graphs. If you do not, you will not know if the facing is flat or curved near the tip. Your tip opening data needs to be accurate too to compare with the feeler X data. > On Feb 14, 2016, at 1:28 AM, harim0suprem0@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Okay well maybe it itsn't so bad. It plays incredibly well! > >
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
I added a tab to Ken's spreadsheet and made a combined overlay XY plot of all his curves. (The layout would be much different if tip opening data was provided.)
If all or most of the curves have a bump or low spot in the same location, I would question the accuracy of the feeler gage used at that location. For example, all the curves have a low glass gage reading at the .003" feeler. The curves show a dip there indicating a bump in the curve OR the feeler used is thinner than .003". Check your feeler sizes with a micrometer or at least calipers.
The .015" feeler looks like it may be larger than .015" based on most of the curves showing a low spot there. Or the feelers on either side of this reading may be smaller than marked. Irregularities can be measurement errors or facing curve shapes.
See Attch Spreadsheet.
Also, Harim has some typos in his use of the data. You can see it in the plots where the same glass reading is used for 2 feelers.
From: "'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
I like your graphs – they look different than mine – and I never heard of ‘XY scatter graphs’. Could you explain how they are different and how to make them? There are some anomalies there that may improve my technique.KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:05 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from harim0suprem0@... [MouthpieceWork] included below] I've graphed up around half of your mouthpieces that were of interest to me using XY scatter graphs. I have not included the tip opening and the .0010 feeler (because I'm lazy) but anyway I hope you find it interesting! We can see that although the mouthpieces were made from different brands and have different length facings it is incredibly obvious that they were all trying to create a similar shape (Sharp curve near the start of the facing and kind of flat afterwards, not a circular curve) Also, I can see why your Chedeville mouthpiece blank is your favorite! It has the least low/high spots and is a really nice smooth curve compared to other mouthpieces. I've added two of my own mouthpieces, a good one and a not so good one. I have measured them very carefully quite a few times and I am really disappointed with the facing of my good mouthpiece! I paid a large amount of money for it. The reason I bought it was because I heard that they were incredibly well-made mouthpieces, the best of the best. Thanks again for lending your data Ken! I have learnt more than enough from them and I hope that other clarinet mpce refacers just starting out find this post useful too. And if I made any mistakes anywhere whether it be what I said or a mistake in the graphs please let me know! Cheers,' Harim #yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227 -- #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp #yiv0658662227hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp #yiv0658662227ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp .yiv0658662227ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp .yiv0658662227ad p {margin:0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mkp .yiv0658662227ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ygrp-lc #yiv0658662227hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ygrp-lc .yiv0658662227ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227activity span .yiv0658662227underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 dd.yiv0658662227last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 dd.yiv0658662227last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 dd.yiv0658662227last p span.yiv0658662227yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227file-title a, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227file-title a:active, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227file-title a:hover, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227photo-title a, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227photo-title a:active, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227photo-title a:hover, #yiv0658662227 div.yiv0658662227photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 div#yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg #yiv0658662227ygrp-msg p a span.yiv0658662227yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv0658662227 o {font-size:0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv0658662227 .yiv0658662227replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv0658662227 input, #yiv0658662227 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv0658662227 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-mlmsg #yiv0658662227logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-msg p#yiv0658662227attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-reco #yiv0658662227reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-sponsor #yiv0658662227ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv0658662227 #yiv0658662227ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv0658662227
FROM: harim0suprem0 ()
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
Ken - When you insert a graph just go under Scatter, and choose the 'Scatter with Smooth Lines and Markers' graph. Thank you so much for all the advice and corrections Keith! I'm incredibly glad to hear that my mouthpiece is probably intended to look like that. As for the typo I had a little issue with my 0.008 and 0.010 feelers, I kept coming with a similar or same reading for both of my mouthpieces.. thought there might be something wrong with them. I'll try to check out their accuracy using my dial calipers. Thanks for all the help guys!! This saved me so much time. Cheers, Harim
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS
I got some of this backward. It should read: If all or most of the curves have a bump or low spot in the same location, I would question the accuracy of the feeler gage used at that location. For example, all the curves have a low glass gage reading at the .003" feeler. The curves show a dip there indicating a bump in the curve OR the feeler used is THICKER than .003". Check your feeler sizes with a micrometer or at least calipers. The .015" feeler looks like it may be SMALLER than .015" based on most of the curves showing a low spot there. Or the feelers on either side of this reading may be LARGER than marked. Irregularities can be measurement errors or facing curve shapes. > > . > > >
FROM: kenlphotos (Ken Lagace Photos)
SUBJECT: Re: ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment]
Thanks Keith for your work with my data. I saw the Excel file when I joined but couldn’t figure out how to use it in my workflow since I use more measurements than the regular user. Below is the conversion from the “(XX)” numbers in my file. The ‘Tip Gauge’ number, which is easier to use in my Excel file, is converted to mm numbers, ‘Tip mm’. Mouthpiece Openings Tip Opening Tip Gauge Tip mm (Clar Feel) 0.032 15 0.81 0.033 16 0.84 0.034 17 0.86 0.035 18 0.89 0.036 19 0.91 0.037 20 0.94 Very Close 0.038 21 0.97 0.039 22 0.99 Close 0.040 23 1.02 0.041 24 1.04 Med Close 0.042 25 1.07 0.043 26 1.09 Medium 0.044 27 1.12 0.045 28 1.14 Med Open 0.046 29 1.17 0.047 30 1.19 Open 0.048 31 1.22 0.049 32 1.24 Very open 0.050 33 1.27 0.051 34 1.30 Extreme 0.052 35 1.32 0.053 36 1.35 0.054 37 1.37 0.055 38 1.40 0.056 39 1.42 0.057 40 1.45 From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:04 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Keith Bradbury included below] I added a tab to Ken's spreadsheet and made a combined overlay XY plot of all his curves. (The layout would be much different if tip opening data was provided.) If all or most of the curves have a bump or low spot in the same location, I would question the accuracy of the feeler gage used at that location. For example, all the curves have a low glass gage reading at the .003" feeler. The curves show a dip there indicating a bump in the curve OR the feeler used is thinner than .003". Check your feeler sizes with a micrometer or at least calipers. The .015" feeler looks like it may be larger than .015" based on most of the curves showing a low spot there. Or the feelers on either side of this reading may be smaller than marked. Irregularities can be measurement errors or facing curve shapes. See Attch Spreadsheet. Also, Harim has some typos in his use of the data. You can see it in the plots where the same glass reading is used for 2 feelers. _____ From: "'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@verizon.net [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 9:20 AM Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS I like your graphs – they look different than mine – and I never heard of ‘XY scatter graphs’. Could you explain how they are different and how to make them? There are some anomalies there that may improve my technique. KenL From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:05 PM To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] ATTENTION ALL CLARINET PLAYERS [1 Attachment] [ <https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=ad32trmkfifhl#TopText> Attachment(s) from harim0suprem0@...m [MouthpieceWork] included below] I've graphed up around half of your mouthpieces that were of interest to me using XY scatter graphs. I have not included the tip opening and the .0010 feeler (because I'm lazy) but anyway I hope you find it interesting! We can see that although the mouthpieces were made from different brands and have different length facings it is incredibly obvious that they were all trying to create a similar shape (Sharp curve near the start of the facing and kind of flat afterwards, not a circular curve) Also, I can see why your Chedeville mouthpiece blank is your favorite! It has the least low/high spots and is a really nice smooth curve compared to other mouthpieces. I've added two of my own mouthpieces, a good one and a not so good one. I have measured them very carefully quite a few times and I am really disappointed with the facing of my good mouthpiece! I paid a large amount of money for it. The reason I bought it was because I heard that they were incredibly well-made mouthpieces, the best of the best. Thanks again for lending your data Ken! <https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo31.gif> I have learnt more than enough from them and I hope that other clarinet mpce refacers just starting out find this post useful too. And if I made any mistakes anywhere whether it be what I said or a mistake in the graphs please let me know! Cheers,' Harim