Hello everybody,

   I got a PlayEasy B2 clarinet mouthpiece to reface and the twelfths are like nothing I have ever seen before, way too short. The fundamental notes are too sharp. I redid curve and baffle. The baffel was very deep in a strange way, too deep to soon at the top in my opinion. Had a thick beak so I had plenty material to work with. Nothing improves the pitch problem. Has the A type throat and the bore looks as if it has one third or so wider, right at the exit. Same width at the exit as most I work on though... any idea what could be doing this?. Bore too narrow on the first two thirds?. My client told me about it before sending the mouthpiece. I just didn't think it would be this bad. Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have.

Ivan

The problem is in the bore. If you can find a bore gauge that measures from 0.5 to 0.6 inches, and compare to a good mouthpiece that works for you, you may (or may not) be able to change the depth and shape to match your good one.

KenL

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:37 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Twelfth way too short on modern clarinet mouthpiece

 

  

Hello everybody,

I got a PlayEasy B2 clarinet mouthpiece to reface and the twelfths are like nothing I have ever seen before, way too short. The fundamental notes are too sharp. I redid curve and baffle. The baffel was very deep in a strange way, too deep to soon at the top in my opinion. Had a thick beak so I had plenty material to work with. Nothing improves the pitch problem. Has the A type throat and the bore looks as if it has one third or so wider, right at the exit. Same width at the exit as most I work on though... any idea what could be doing this?. Bore too narrow on the first two thirds?. My client told me about it before sending the mouthpiece. I just didn't think it would be this bad. Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have.

Ivan

If the clarinet itself has major pitch issues you most likely cannot fix it with a mouthpiece

Steve Goodson


> On Feb 12, 2016, at 11:01 AM, 'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> The problem is in the bore. If you can find a bore gauge that measures from 0.5 to 0.6 inches, and compare to a good mouthpiece that works for you, you may (or may not) be able to change the depth and shape to match your good one.
> 
> KenL
> 
>  
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:37 PM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Twelfth way too short on modern clarinet mouthpiece
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I got a PlayEasy B2 clarinet mouthpiece to reface and the twelfths are like nothing I have ever seen before, way too short. The fundamental notes are too sharp. I redid curve and baffle. The baffel was very deep in a strange way, too deep to soon at the top in my opinion. Had a thick beak so I had plenty material to work with. Nothing improves the pitch problem. Has the A type throat and the bore looks as if it has one third or so wider, right at the exit. Same width at the exit as most I work on though... any idea what could be doing this?. Bore too narrow on the first two thirds?. My client told me about it before sending the mouthpiece. I just didn't think it would be this bad. Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have.
> 
> Ivan
> 
> 
> 

Ivan mentioned that he had a mouthpiece that “the twelfths are like nothing I have ever seen before, way too short”. 

If he hadn’t seen that before I am guessing he has played the same clarinet and barrel with another mouthpiece that did not have twelfths “way too short”. 

Maybe Ivan can chime back in and clarify how he has come to his conclusions about the twelfths, and what he 

equipment he was comparing it to.

 

The mouthpiece and barrel are a large part of the tuning system that has to work with the rest of the clarinet. 

I have a Chedeville blank I refaced, a Backun barrel and a Ridenour Lyrique clarinet and all the twelfths are close 

enough that with a bit of embouchure help, they are exactly in tune with a digital tuner.

And I am sure that I were to try Ivan’s mouthpiece that my twelfths would be out of whack too.

 

KenL

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2016 12:14 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Twelfth way too short on modern clarinet mouthpiece

 

  

If the clarinet itself has major pitch issues you most likely cannot fix it with a mouthpiece

Steve Goodson

 


On Feb 12, 2016, at 11:01 AM, 'Ken Lagace Photos' kenlphotos@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  

The problem is in the bore. If you can find a bore gauge that measures from 0.5 to 0.6 inches, and compare to a good mouthpiece that works for you, you may (or may not) be able to change the depth and shape to match your good one.

KenL

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:37 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Twelfth way too short on modern clarinet mouthpiece

 

  

Hello everybody,

I got a PlayEasy B2 clarinet mouthpiece to reface and the twelfths are like nothing I have ever seen before, way too short. The fundamental notes are too sharp. I redid curve and baffle. The baffel was very deep in a strange way, too deep to soon at the top in my opinion. Had a thick beak so I had plenty material to work with. Nothing improves the pitch problem. Has the A type throat and the bore looks as if it has one third or so wider, right at the exit. Same width at the exit as most I work on though... any idea what could be doing this?. Bore too narrow on the first two thirds?. My client told me about it before sending the mouthpiece. I just didn't think it would be this bad. Thank you in advance for any ideas you might have.

Ivan

Thank you for your replies. I am a profesional clarinetist having played 20 plus years with orchestras. Naples, Cincinnati and Pittsburg's Symphony Orchestras in the States for 9 years. Presently with the Galicia Symphony Orchestra in Spain, a 24 nationalities great orchestra. 

The reason I mention this is to clarify the fact that my clarinetist are not the problem hahaha... could have been though if all mouthpieces had short twelfths... I play with Buffet RC clarinets and Chadash barrels and I am dead on with every 440 pitched mouthpiece I reface. We tune at 441 in my orchestra. Dead on with every 442 mouthpiece as well, just at higher in pitch. As you said Ken, just a bit of voicing does it to place twelfths in tune.

Thank you for the pointer about the bore problem Ken. Will try to find the tools to fix bores in the future. 

Yesterday my client said that all 5 Nick's Playeasy mouthpieces he tried had this problem. People have been complaining about his new blanks apparently. He used to work with Zinner blanks and those tuned fine. So, now I know it is a design problem. Probably some German mouthpiece maker who tried some kind of hybrid for bohem French systems without success. 

Again thank you.

Ivan

"Wide" or "narrow" 12ths can happen from causes other than the mouthpiece.
I had a Buffet A clarinet that evidently had the tapered reamer that is run
in from the top of the upper joint run too far into the "polycylindric"
bore.  It's 12ths in the left hand were nearly a half step sharp.  I was
able to bring that back to "almost playable' by using a severely reverse
tapered (smaller at the bottom end) tuning barrel --and a different
mouthpiece.

Try a radically different tuning barrel and a smaller volume mouthpiece.
The problem may be the clarinet, not so much the mouthpiece.

Bob

Hello,

These play easy mouthpieces by nick kückmeier (graz/austria) are  
designed for albert system clarinet and for use with legere synthetic  
reeds, as far as I know.

I use one for boehm clarinet and it is, though not great sounding,  
okay with a legere reed. kückmeier also optimizes the legere reeds.
http://www.playnick.at/


NikolaosAfentulidis
www.afentulidis.com
okin@...
+43 6991 463 25 24

In this case the problem IS the mouthpiece and Nikolaos I am familiar with Nick's work, mouthpieces and reeds. Many players play them using regular reeds and sound great. For myself they don't work well because the voicing is too limiting, also they don't let me create enough colors and shapes I am used to getting from a great mouthpiece. Around here players are attracted to this type of mouthpiece because it evens out all registers and are easy to play... PLAYEASY :) 

Anyway, just in case you didn't get a chance to read the first message this mouthpiece having very short twelfths is the only mouthpiece I have ran into that has this problem after having played and worked on hundreds of mouthpieces. And like I said my client said all the Playeasy from this batch he tried had this problem. Nick has changed blanks and maybe these have this problem. Might not be a problem for Albert system clarinets but it is for Boehm ones.

Thank you.

Besides bore measurements, you can measure the length of the backbone too.

Also, you can measure the entire chamber volume using water and a pipet or graduated cylinder.  You can even weigh how much water fits in the chamber.  Tape off the window first.

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 5:27 PM, nfn12517@hotmail.com [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> In this case the problem IS the mouthpiece and Nikolaos I am familiar with Nick's work, mouthpieces and reeds. Many players play them using regular reeds and sound great. For myself they don't work well because the voicing is too limiting, also they don't let me create enough colors and shapes I am used to getting from a great mouthpiece. Around here players are attracted to this type of mouthpiece because it evens out all registers and are easy to play... PLAYEASY :) 
> 
> Anyway, just in case you didn't get a chance to read the first message this mouthpiece having very short twelfths is the only mouthpiece I have ran into that has this problem after having played and worked on hundreds of mouthpieces. And like I said my client said all the Playeasy from this batch he tried had this problem. Nick has changed blanks and maybe these have this problem. Might not be a problem for Albert system clarinets but it is for Boehm ones.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 

Backbore not backbone.

> On Feb 13, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Keith Bradbury kwbradbury@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Besides bore measurements, you can measure the length of the backbone too.
> 
> Also, you can measure the entire chamber volume using water and a pipet or graduated cylinder.  You can even weigh how much water fits in the chamber.  Tape off the window first.
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2016, at 5:27 PM, nfn12517@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> In this case the problem IS the mouthpiece and Nikolaos I am familiar with Nick's work, mouthpieces and reeds. Many players play them using regular reeds and sound great. For myself they don't work well because the voicing is too limiting, also they don't let me create enough colors and shapes I am used to getting from a great mouthpiece. Around here players are attracted to this type of mouthpiece because it evens out all registers and are easy to play... PLAYEASY :) 
>> 
>> Anyway, just in case you didn't get a chance to read the first message this mouthpiece having very short twelfths is the only mouthpiece I have ran into that has this problem after having played and worked on hundreds of mouthpieces. And like I said my client said all the Playeasy from this batch he tried had this problem. Nick has changed blanks and maybe these have this problem. Might not be a problem for Albert system clarinets but it is for Boehm ones.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
> 
> 

Thank you Keith, will have it mind. 

 Interestingly enough I just found a link to a conversation at the Clarinet BBoard where they talk about the same mouthpieces and maker... same problem, short twelfths.
 

 Iván
 

 http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=431881&t=431841 http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=431881&t=431841