Mouthpiece Work / Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
FROM: efurre ()
SUBJECT: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
Have I been wrong all this time??
 

 This is from Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces' web site:
 

 "Concave Table
The Best Table Is Not Flat
 Table is the part that the reed is clamped onto by the ligature. Okutsu Mouthpieces make all tables very slightly concave from front to back. The concave table makes the tone full and the lives of reeds long.
 In the middle of the side rails, there are the break points of the side rails and the reed. In other words, the starting points of the facing curve. For the combination of a mouthpiece and a reed, it is the most important to make no leaks at the break points.
 The break points are fulcrums of the vibration of the reed. If there are any slight leaks, the reed can not vibrate efficiently. The sound become dull and stuffy and maybe with many squeaking error tones.
 The concave table is the equipment which the high quality mouthpieces have traditionally to avoid the leaks at the break points.
 When the reed is clamped on the concave table, the reed is bended slightly by pressure of the ligature. And the reed and  the mouthpiece are pushing each other at the break Points."
 

 

 

 

 Concave Table | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/concave-table/
 
 
 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/concave-table/ 
 
 Concave Table | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/concave-table/ Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces. The Best Shape of The Saxophone Mouthpiece Table Is NOT Flat. The Concave Table Makes The Tone Full A...
 
 
 
 View on okutsumouthpieces.com http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/concave-table/ 
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FROM: efurre ()
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
They also has some interesting thought about facing curves:
 

 Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/facing/
 
 
 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/facing/ 
 
 Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/facing/ The Best Facing Curves. With Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces, You Can Produce Rich And Full Tone Effortlessly With Any Kind Of Inner Design Of The...
 
 
 
 View on okutsumouthpieces.com http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/facing/ 
 Preview by Yahoo
FROM: moeaaron (barrylevine)
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
 

The video of the reed vibrating on the mouthpiece seems to show 1-2
small vibrations as well as a cycle of the reed closing the gap. Whether
the voice accompaniment addresses this, I have no idea. 

The late Ray
Reed pointed out that cane reeds develop a bulge in their cross section
that needs to be re-flattened. A concave table might obviate this.


Barry Levine 

On 2014-12-20 4:03 pm, efurre@...
[MouthpieceWork] wrote: 

> They also has some interesting thought about
facing curves: 
> 
> Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 [1] 
> 
> [2] 
> 
>
Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 [3] 
> The Best Facing Curves. With Okutsu
Saxophone Mouthpieces, You Can Produce Rich And Full Tone Effortlessly
With Any Kind Of Inner Design Of The... 
> 
> View on
okutsumouthpieces.com [4] 
> Preview by Yahoo 
> 
> 




Links:
------
[1] http://okutsumouthpieces.com/english/facing/
[2]
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[3]
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FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
Nothing new there...
The concave table doesn't make any difference acoustically.  At some point the back of the reed must be flattened.  The concave table lets you be a bit more lazy with your reeds is all.  Either you use a flat table and remove a slight amount of material, more often, at each reed flattening, or you use a concave table and remove a lot of material, less often, at each flattening.  
The tip of the reed vibrates according to the harmonic make-up of the tone's regime.  Part vibrates with the fundamental, part with the 1st harmonic, part with the 2nd harmonic, etc....so one part will be going one way while the other goes in the opposite direction.
Facing curve - just unspecified opinion.


 

     On Saturday, December 20, 2014 6:31 PM, "barrylevine barrylevine@norwoodlight.com [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
   

     The video of the reed vibrating on the mouthpiece seems to show 1-2 small vibrations as well as a cycle of the reed closing the gap.  Whether the voice accompaniment addresses this, I have no idea.The late Ray Reed pointed out that cane reeds develop a bulge in their cross section that needs to be re-flattened. A concave table might obviate this.Barry LevineOn 2014-12-20 4:03 pm, efurre@... [MouthpieceWork] wrote:
  They also has some interesting thought about facing curves: Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作
|   |
|   |   |   |    Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 The Best Facing Curves. With Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces, You Can Produce Rich And Full Tone Effortlessly With Any Kind Of Inner Design Of The... |   |
|    View on okutsumouthpieces.com    |  Preview by Yahoo  |
|   |

 
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FROM: norman.smale ()
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
Well it's one person's opinion. The theory that a reed warping in will still exactly fit their concave table is rather dubious.
 A reed may need flattening at times but will then work on a flat table perectly.
 If only the vamp portion of the reed is moistened then the tendency for the butt to warp is very much lower.
 I tend to find that if a reed needs flattening then having done it once the butt portion remains stable from then on.
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
If you can not fix it, market it....

They describe a concavity in the long direction of the table.  Cane reeds do not swell this way.  Concave tables like this are quiet common from the mouthpiece mass producers.  They are a lot better than a convex table.  They do bow the reed when the ligature is applied.  

I think it is easier for the mass producers to nail a concave table than it is for them to make a flat table.  

> On Dec 20, 2014, at 3:52 PM, efurre@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Have I been wrong all this time??
> 
> 
> 
> This is from Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces' web site:
> 
> 
> 
> "Concave Table
> The Best Table Is Not Flat
> 
> Table is the part that the reed is clamped onto by the ligature. Okutsu Mouthpieces make all tables very slightly concave from front to back. The concave table makes the tone full and the lives of reeds long.
> 
> In the middle of the side rails, there are the break points of the side rails and the reed. In other words, the starting points of the facing curve. For the combination of a mouthpiece and a reed, it is the most important to make no leaks at the break points.
> 
> The break points are fulcrums of the vibration of the reed. If there are any slight leaks, the reed can not vibrate efficiently. The sound become dull and stuffy and maybe with many squeaking error tones.
> 
> The concave table is the equipment which the high quality mouthpieces have traditionally to avoid the leaks at the break points.
> 
> When the reed is clamped on the concave table, the reed is bended slightly by pressure of the ligature. And the reed and  the mouthpiece are pushing each other at the break Points."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Concave Table | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作
> 
>    
> Concave Table | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作
> Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces. The Best Shape of The Saxophone Mouthpiece Table Is NOT Flat. The Concave Table Makes The Tone Full A...
> View on okutsumouthpieces.com
> Preview by Yahoo
>  
> 
>
FROM: tenorman1952 ()
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
Keith, as Santy Runyon explained to me many years ago, the way some companies cut the facing the body of the mouthpiece heats up, expands during the cut.  This is a milling operation.  When the mouthpiece cools, it makes the table slightly concave.

To counter this, Runyon mouthpieces have the facings cut under a stream of cooling fluid.

Paul C.
 

---In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 If you can not fix it, market it....
 

 They describe a concavity in the long direction of the table.  Cane reeds do not swell this way.  Concave tables like this are quiet common from the mouthpiece mass producers.  They are a lot better than a convex table.  They do bow the reed when the ligature is applied.  
 

 I think it is easier for the mass producers to nail a concave table than it is for them to make a flat table.
FROM: jdtoddjazz ()
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces: "The Best Table Is Not Flat"
It's called making a virtue out of a necessity. JT
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces
I looked around a little on the Okutsu web site and processed some of the pages that were not in English through a translator.  There are some fresh and interesting thoughts and experiments here.  Here is one where foil is attached to the top of a reed and the tip rail and they are wired up to light up a bulb when contact is made.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fokutsumouthpieces.com%2Fknowledge%2F

> On Dec 20, 2014, at 4:03 PM, efurre@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> They also has some interesting thought about facing curves:
> 
> 
> 
> Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作
> 
>    
> Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作
> The Best Facing Curves. With Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces, You Can Produce Rich And Full Tone Effortlessly With Any Kind Of Inner Design Of The...
> View on okutsumouthpieces.com
> Preview by Yahoo
>  
> 
>
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces
He should read Benade's FMA, the standard published textbook on musical acoustics, with two chapters dedicated to woodwinds.  Non-math.  Therein, Benade explains that, at lower dynamic levels, before the reed closes off the mouthpiece aperture completely, the amplitude of the harmonics increase exponentially, to the power of their frequency ratio to the fundamental, i.e.,  2:1 = x squared, 3:1 = x cubed, etc., for each decibel the fundamental amplitude increases.  At higher dynamic levels, where the reed begins to close each cycle, the amplitudes of the harmonics change, to increase at only a 1:1 ratio, directly proportional to that of the fundamental. 

This creates a definite change in the feel of blowing resistance and a definite change in the rate the sound changes.  Benade terms it appropriately, the "change in feel" of the mouthpiece. 

You don't need an electric circuit and light to tell you when it happens, if you are paying attention to what you are doing.


     On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 4:42 AM, "Keith Bradbury kwbradbury@... [MouthpieceWork]" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
   

     I looked around a little on the Okutsu web site and processed some of the pages that were not in English through a translator.  There are some fresh and interesting thoughts and experiments here.  Here is one where foil is attached to the top of a reed and the tip rail and they are wired up to light up a bulb when contact is made.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fokutsumouthpieces.com%2Fknowledge%2F
On Dec 20, 2014, at 4:03 PM, efurre@... [MouthpieceWork] <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


    They also has some interesting thought about facing curves:
Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作 
|    |
|    |        |    |       Facing Curve | 奥津サックスマウスピース製作  The Best Facing Curves. With Okutsu Saxophone Mouthpieces, You Can Produce Rich And Full Tone Effortlessly With Any Kind Of Inner Design Of The...    |    |
|      View on okutsumouthpieces.com      |    Preview by Yahoo    |
|    |

     
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