Hello Experts, can someone tell me what material is the best to repair rail of a Silverite Dukoff. Preferably found in Europe. Any other advice welcome. Thanx in advance!
GV

Show us some photos. You can use regular solder if you need to add material.



On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Gianni Veloce <gianniveloce@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hello Experts, can someone tell me what material is the best to repair
> rail of a Silverite Dukoff. Preferably found in Europe. Any other advice
> welcome. Thanx in advance!
> GV
>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

Thanks for your fast reply. 
I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
Then how to apply the solder?
Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to better bond with solder?)
Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.

thank you

Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did some and
it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine. Make
sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the mouthpiece
will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially on the
rails.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for your fast reply.
> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and
> soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
> Then how to apply the solder?
> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to
> better bond with solder?)
> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>
> thank you
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

In the meatime I have tried to apply some solder with my gun on the outside of the mp.
Just for testing not to risk ruining it :D
But seems not to bond well. 
Can you confirm you used this technique on a "Silverite" Dukoff? 
Any other advice? Or any one else? 
Many thanks and sorry for keeping this list busy with my problem!
GV

Isn't there an issue (later) with solder being so close to the mouth?


Regards,

DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:

>
>
> Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did some
> and it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine. Make
> sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the mouthpiece
> will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially on the
> rails.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your fast reply.
>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
>> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and
>> soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
>> Then how to apply the solder?
>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point
>> to better bond with solder?)
>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>
>> thank you
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sakshama
>
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>
>   
>

It was a silverite Dukoff. I used a very small torch instead of a solder
gun.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:

>
>
> Isn't there an issue (later) with solder being so close to the mouth?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> DJSmart
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did some
>> and it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine. Make
>> sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the mouthpiece
>> will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially on the
>> rails.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your fast reply.
>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
>>> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder
>>> and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the
>>> tools/material)
>>> Then how to apply the solder?
>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point
>>> to better bond with solder?)
>>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>>
>>> thank you
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sakshama
>>
>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

Just to confirm: Hard solder, not soft solder?


DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:

>
>
> It was a silverite Dukoff. I used a very small torch instead of a solder
> gun.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Isn't there an issue (later) with solder being so close to the mouth?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> DJSmart
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did some
>>> and it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine. Make
>>> sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the mouthpiece
>>> will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially on the
>>> rails.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your fast reply.
>>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
>>>> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>>>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder
>>>> and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the
>>>> tools/material)
>>>> Then how to apply the solder?
>>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point
>>>> to better bond with solder?)
>>>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>>>
>>>> thank you
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sakshama
>>>
>>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sakshama
>
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>
>   
>

Soft solder


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:

>
>
> Just to confirm: Hard solder, not soft solder?
>
>
> DJSmart
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> It was a silverite Dukoff. I used a very small torch instead of a solder
>> gun.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Isn't there an issue (later) with solder being so close to the mouth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> DJSmart
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did some
>>>> and it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine. Make
>>>> sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the mouthpiece
>>>> will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially on the
>>>> rails.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your fast reply.
>>>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
>>>>> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>>>>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder
>>>>> and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the
>>>>> tools/material)
>>>>> Then how to apply the solder?
>>>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the
>>>>> point to better bond with solder?)
>>>>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>>>>
>>>>> thank you
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sakshama
>>>>
>>>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sakshama
>>
>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>
>>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to read about these?
thx
GV

Why not use a 2 part epoxy? 

On Feb 23, 2014, at 12:06 PM, <gianniveloce@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to read about these?
> thx
> GV
> 
> 

Hello,
from my humble knowledge, I would not use a lead containing material 
(most soft solders contain lots of lead) for mouthpieces, since lead 
could be dispensed into the mouth of the player.

best regards
JE

Am 23.02.2014 19:13, schrieb STEVE GOODSON:
> Why not use a 2 part epoxy?
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 12:06 PM,<gianniveloce@...>  wrote:
>
>    
>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to read about these?
>> thx
>> GV
>>
>>
>>      
>
>    

I'm sure there's an alternative to leaving soft solder so close to (= in)
the player's mouth.


Is that the accepted method?

Anyone?

Regards,

DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:

>
>
> Soft solder
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Just to confirm: Hard solder, not soft solder?
>>
>>
>> DJSmart
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was a silverite Dukoff. I used a very small torch instead of a solder
>>> gun.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Isn't there an issue (later) with solder being so close to the mouth?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> DJSmart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those repairs are rare so your guess will be as god as mine. I did
>>>>> some and it seem the regular solder I had with the gun was doing just fine.
>>>>> Make sense to clean it before applying the solder. Preheating the
>>>>> mouthpiece will melt it (done that) so I strongly advise against specially
>>>>> on the rails.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:31 AM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your fast reply.
>>>>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of
>>>>>> the (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>>>>>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder
>>>>>> and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the
>>>>>> tools/material)
>>>>>> Then how to apply the solder?
>>>>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the
>>>>>> point to better bond with solder?)
>>>>>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thank you
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sakshama
>>>>>
>>>>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sakshama
>>>
>>> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sakshama
>
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>
>   
>

*"Noun**1.**soft solder* - solder that melts at a relatively low temperature
solder <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solder> - an alloy (usually of
*LEAD* and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"

from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder

I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...

Regards, DJSmart




On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:

>
>
> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to
> read about these?
> thx
> GV
>  
>

 

Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore. 

Since the Safe
Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of lead-containing solders
in potable water systems has effectively been banned nationwide. The
major impact of the Act has been on solder containing 50% tin and 50%
lead (50-50), until then the most widely used solder for drinking water
systems. 

Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and
tin-silver solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50
are that they are stronger and require somewhat higher working
temperatures. Many plumbers in the United States have used them in
copper plumbing systems for decades 

The composition of Silverite has
been discussed before (was it Pewter?), but I don't recall what it is,
or its melting point. 

BL 

On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote: 

>
"NOUN
> 1.
> SOFT SOLDER- solder that melts at a relatively low
temperature 
> solder [1] - an alloy (usually of LEAD and tin) used when
melted to join two metal surfaces"
> 
> from this link:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder [2]
> 
> I've highlighted
the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
> 
> Regards,
DJSmart
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...
[3]> wrote:
> 
>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or
provide some links to read about these?
>> thx
>> GV
> 
> 

 

Links:
------
[1]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solder
[2]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
[3]
mailto:gianniveloce@...
[4]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODN0bXZiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNDk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE4ODI1MQ--?act=reply&messageNum496
[5]
mailto:davidsmart64@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[6]
mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[7]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMmJ1NjVqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE4ODI1MQ--
[8]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/message/11483;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NmdkOWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNDk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE4ODI1MQR0cGNJZAMxMTQ4Mw--
[9]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork
[10]
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
[11]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbTFvM2RiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE4ODI1MQ--
[12]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZDRwMmlrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzOTMxODgyNTE-?o=6
[13]
http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcTM5Z3YzBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzkzMTg4MjUx
[14]
http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
[15]
mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
[16]
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

Thanks...I guess that clears that up..

There must be an alternative, however, to practically 'sucking on' solder
in the mouth.
It may be safe for plumbing...but there's a big difference between it being
in your mouth and present in the joins in your plumbing.

If there isn't, that's OK.

Regards,

DJSmart


Regards, DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:31 PM, barrylevine
<barrylevine@...>wrote:

>  Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore.
>
> Since the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of
> lead-containing solders in potable water systems has effectively been
> banned nationwide. The major impact of the Act has been on solder
> containing 50% tin and 50% lead (50-50), until then the most widely used
> solder for drinking water systems.
>
> Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and tin-silver
> solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50 are that they
> are stronger and require somewhat higher working temperatures. Many
> plumbers in the United States have used them in copper plumbing systems for
> decades
>
> The composition of Silverite has been discussed before (was it Pewter?),
> but I don't recall what it is, or its melting point.
>
>
> BL
>
>
>
> On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote:
>
>
>
>
>   *"Noun* *1.* *soft solder*- solder that melts at a relatively low
> temperature
> solder <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solder> - an alloy (usually of
> *LEAD* and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"
>
> from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
>
> I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
>
> Regards, DJSmart
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to
>> read about these?
>> thx
>> GV
>>
>>
>
>
>

why not use epoxy?


On Feb 23, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:

> 
> Show us some photos. You can use regular solder if you need to add material.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Gianni Veloce <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>  
> 
> Hello Experts, can someone tell me what material is the best to repair rail of a Silverite Dukoff. Preferably found in Europe. Any other advice welcome. Thanx in advance!
> GV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sakshama
> 
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
> 
> 
> 

Thanks Barry.

Now wer're getting somewhere: Surely it would be better to melt / weld some
pewter (very low melting point) into the damaged area?

(if indeed silverite = pewter).

This may have been discussed elsewhere, but I'm new to the group and I
haven't finished reading the last ten years' posts....forgive me.


Regards,

DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:41 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks...I guess that clears that up..
>
> There must be an alternative, however, to practically 'sucking on' solder
> in the mouth.
> It may be safe for plumbing...but there's a big difference between it
> being in your mouth and present in the joins in your plumbing.
>
> If there isn't, that's OK.
>
> Regards,
>
> DJSmart
>
>
> Regards, DJSmart
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:31 PM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...
> > wrote:
>
>>  Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore.
>>
>> Since the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of
>> lead-containing solders in potable water systems has effectively been
>> banned nationwide. The major impact of the Act has been on solder
>> containing 50% tin and 50% lead (50-50), until then the most widely used
>> solder for drinking water systems.
>>
>> Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and tin-silver
>> solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50 are that they
>> are stronger and require somewhat higher working temperatures. Many
>> plumbers in the United States have used them in copper plumbing systems for
>> decades
>>
>> The composition of Silverite has been discussed before (was it Pewter?),
>> but I don't recall what it is, or its melting point.
>>
>>
>> BL
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   *"Noun* *1.* *soft solder*- solder that melts at a relatively low
>> temperature
>> solder <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solder> - an alloy (usually of
>> *LEAD* and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"
>>
>> from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
>>
>> I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
>>
>> Regards, DJSmart
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to
>>> read about these?
>>> thx
>>> GV
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>  
>

That could work, Steve, but you may have bonding issues between the two
different materials.

Also, it may 'stand out' a bit when you've finished the repair, no?


Regards,

DJSmart.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:45 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

>
>
> why not use epoxy?
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Show us some photos. You can use regular solder if you need to add
> material.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Gianni Veloce <gianniveloce@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hello Experts, can someone tell me what material is the best to repair
>> rail of a Silverite Dukoff. Preferably found in Europe. Any other advice
>> welcome. Thanx in advance!
>> GV
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sakshama
>
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>
>
>
>  
>

I've used it very successfully in the past, with no bonding issues….as for the cosmetics, I can only say it's not a perfect world…..


On Feb 23, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:

> 
> Thanks Barry.
> 
> Now wer're getting somewhere: Surely it would be better to melt / weld some pewter (very low melting point) into the damaged area?
> 
> (if indeed silverite = pewter).
> 
> This may have been discussed elsewhere, but I'm new to the group and I haven't finished reading the last ten years' posts....forgive me.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> DJSmart
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:41 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
>  
> 
> Thanks...I guess that clears that up..
> 
> There must be an alternative, however, to practically 'sucking on' solder in the mouth.
> It may be safe for plumbing...but there's a big difference between it being in your mouth and present in the joins in your plumbing.
> 
> If there isn't, that's OK. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> DJSmart
> 
> 
> Regards, DJSmart
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:31 PM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...> wrote:
> Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore.
> 
> Since the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of lead-containing solders in potable water systems has effectively been banned nationwide. The major impact of the Act has been on solder containing 50% tin and 50% lead (50-50), until then the most widely used solder for drinking water systems.
> 
> Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and tin-silver solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50 are that they are stronger and require somewhat higher working temperatures. Many plumbers in the United States have used them in copper plumbing systems for decades
> 
> The composition of Silverite has been discussed before (was it Pewter?), but I don't recall what it is, or its melting point.
> 
> 
> BL
> 
>  
> On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote:
> 
>>  
>>  
>> "Noun	1.	soft solder- solder that melts at a relatively low temperature
>> solder - an alloy (usually of LEAD and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"
>> 
>> from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
>> 
>> I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
>> 
>> Regards, DJSmart
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>  
>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to read about these?
>> thx
>> GV
>> 
>>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

I like that....



On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:53 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

>
>
> I've used it very successfully in the past, with no bonding issues....as for
> the cosmetics, I can only say it's not a perfect world.....
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Barry.
>
> Now wer're getting somewhere: Surely it would be better to melt / weld
> some pewter (very low melting point) into the damaged area?
>
> (if indeed silverite = pewter).
>
> This may have been discussed elsewhere, but I'm new to the group and I
> haven't finished reading the last ten years' posts....forgive me.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> DJSmart
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:41 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks...I guess that clears that up..
>>
>> There must be an alternative, however, to practically 'sucking on' solder
>> in the mouth.
>> It may be safe for plumbing...but there's a big difference between it
>> being in your mouth and present in the joins in your plumbing.
>>
>> If there isn't, that's OK.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> DJSmart
>>
>>
>> Regards, DJSmart
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:31 PM, barrylevine <
>> barrylevine@...> wrote:
>>
>>>  Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore.
>>>
>>> Since the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of
>>> lead-containing solders in potable water systems has effectively been
>>> banned nationwide. The major impact of the Act has been on solder
>>> containing 50% tin and 50% lead (50-50), until then the most widely used
>>> solder for drinking water systems.
>>>
>>> Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and tin-silver
>>> solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50 are that they
>>> are stronger and require somewhat higher working temperatures. Many
>>> plumbers in the United States have used them in copper plumbing systems for
>>> decades
>>>
>>> The composition of Silverite has been discussed before (was it Pewter?),
>>> but I don't recall what it is, or its melting point.
>>>
>>>
>>> BL
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   *"Noun* *1.* *soft solder*- solder that melts at a relatively low
>>> temperature
>>> solder <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/solder> - an alloy (usually of
>>> *LEAD* and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"
>>>
>>> from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
>>>
>>> I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
>>>
>>> Regards, DJSmart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to
>>>> read about these?
>>>> thx
>>>> GV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

Solder?  Absolutely NOT!  Sorry.  Soft" Solder is 60%-40% or 50%-50% Lead and Tin.  Lead is poisonous.

"Hard" solder has a small percentage of silver added to make it melt at higher temperature, and it is somewhat stronger.  It is used in making jewelry.

In any event, solder containing lead should not be used.  If solder is to be used to repair the Dukoff then use lead-free plumber's solder.  This may be 95% Tin and 5% Antimony. 450°F - 464°F melting range, or a 
copper, bismuth, tin and silver alloy with a 420°F - 460°F melting range.
You will never get the mouthpiece hot enough to adhere solder with a soldering iron or soldering gun.  Likely you would melt the mouthpiece first.  Same with a torch.  I suspect that the "Silverite" material is actually plumber's solder.  

You will have more success with epoxy, as Steve suggested.

Paul C.

Bonding is the issue (as I see it).  I would replace the rail with wax, leaving it proud.  Make an RTV mold of the area (or the whole piece), then aim the sprue at the repair.
Boil the wax away, and replace the piece in the mold.  heat the whole mess in a toaster oven at 350 for an hour, then shoot the flask with Britannia (Brit Metal) or other lead free pewter.

http://muggyweld.com/
has solder that will handle the repair, but call them to find out if it is mouth safe...



________________________________
 From: Gianni Veloce <gianniveloce@...>
To: "MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com" <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:49 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
 


  
Hello Experts, can someone tell me what material is the best to repair rail of a Silverite Dukoff. Preferably found in Europe. Any other advice welcome. Thanx in advance!
GV

you guys are going to an awful lot of trouble to rescue a silverite Dukoff……why not just buy another one?


On Feb 23, 2014, at 10:31 AM, gianniveloce@... wrote:

> Thanks for your fast reply. 
> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
> Then how to apply the solder?
> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to better bond with solder?)
> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
> 
> thank you
> 
> 

Kinda the whole point of the group, isn't it Steve?
Not 'idealists' vs 'retailers' or anything...but don't we do this 'because
we can' (or die trying)?

How much does a silverite Dukoff cost nowadays anyway (to compare time
spent + materials + thinking time + group discussion time etc.....?

Regards,

DJSmart


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:57 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

>
>
> you guys are going to an awful lot of trouble to rescue a silverite
> Dukoff......why not just buy another one?
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 10:31 AM, gianniveloce@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks for your fast reply.
> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the
> (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and
> soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
> Then how to apply the solder?
> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to
> better bond with solder?)
> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>
> thank you
>
>
>  
>

 

If one had an extremely accurate way of heating the mouthpiece past
the melting point of unleaded solder, without melting the mouthpiece, I
could see using that method. A small ACCURATE temperature controlled
electric furnace would do, I suppose, like people use for enameling. Be
a shame to turn a mouthpiece into a puddle... 

Epoxy seems the easiest
way, and least likely to damage the mouthpiece. 

Once the epoxy has
reacted/polymerized, there's probably not much in the way of anything
that will dissolve out. 

For hardness and strength, JB Weld is mighty
tough stuff. 

Moreover, since gianniveloce needs to add material to the
internal side of the rail, that area can be roughened, and there's a
larger area for good adherence. 

On 2014-02-23 18:10, David Smart
wrote: 

> Kinda the whole point of the group, isn't it Steve? Not
'idealists' vs 'retailers' or anything...but don't we do this 'because
we can' (or die trying)?
> 
> How much does a silverite Dukoff cost
nowadays anyway (to compare time spent + materials + thinking time +
group discussion time etc.....?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> DJSmart 
> 
> On Sun,
Feb 23, 2014 at 10:57 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@... [2]>
wrote:
> 
>> you guys are going to an awful lot of trouble to rescue a
silverite Dukoff……why not just buy another one? 
>> 
>> On Feb 23, 2014,
at 10:31 AM, gianniveloce@... [1] wrote: 
>> 
>>> Thanks for your
fast reply. 
>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the
internal side of the (side) rail (about Can you pls define the best
solder type for this work? ( I use solder and soldering guns for my
electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
>>> Then how to
apply the solder?
>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or
sand it at the point to better bond with solder?)
>>> Do not know how to
attach photo/i will try though.
>>> 
>>> thank you
> 
> 

 

Links:
------
[1] mailto:gianniveloce@...
[2]
mailto:saxgourmet@...
[3]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZ2ExcHZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNTA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE5NzAyNg--?act=reply&messageNum=11507
[4]
mailto:davidsmart64@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[5]
mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[6]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY2hzYjkzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE5NzAyNg--
[7]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/message/11483;_ylc=X3oDMTM2YjJodWE2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNTA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE5NzAyNgR0cGNJZAMxMTQ4Mw--
[8]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork
[9]
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
[10]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNHE4azk5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzE5NzAyNg--
[11]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWY0dWYzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzOTMxOTcwMjY-?o=6
[12]
http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdTVnZGNuBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzkzMTk3MDI2
[13]
http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
[14]
mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
[15]
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

Have you done this with a Dukoff before?   It being almost all tin itself I'd be concerned I'd melt the piece itself if I got it hot enough for the solder to stick (lead-free solder usually being tin itself).

I'm not sure who your question was directed at, Morgan...

I haven't tried it...but I'm interested in finding out.


Regards,




On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:29 PM, <frymorgan@...> wrote:

>
>
> Have you done this with a Dukoff before?   It being almost all tin itself
> I'd be concerned I'd melt the piece itself if I got it hot enough for the
> solder to stick (lead-free solder usually being tin itself).
>  
>

Ignore last....


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:33 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...>wrote:

> I'm not sure who your question was directed at, Morgan...
>
> I haven't tried it...but I'm interested in finding out.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:29 PM, <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Have you done this with a Dukoff before?   It being almost all tin itself
>> I'd be concerned I'd melt the piece itself if I got it hot enough for the
>> solder to stick (lead-free solder usually being tin itself).
>>  
>>
>
>

I have seen a Dukoff ruined by someone trying to use solder on it.  So I did not think this was possible and have not tried it.

I would probably use a gray epoxy like JB Weld. 

PayPal as "Personal, Friend or Family" to: sabradbury79@...
Checks made out to "Keith W. Bradbury"
Mail to:
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
2925 Crane St.
Vineland, NJ 08361

> On Feb 23, 2014, at 12:25 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
> 
> In the meatime I have tried to apply some solder with my gun on the outside of the mp.
> Just for testing not to risk ruining it :D
> But seems not to bond well. 
> Can you confirm you used this technique on a "Silverite" Dukoff? 
> Any other advice? Or any one else? 
> Many thanks and sorry for keeping this list busy with my problem!
> GV
> 
> 

Lead-free solder does exist.  Yamaha instruments claim its use on their boxes. 


Bill Hausmann


If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!



On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:55 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
  



I like that....





On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:53 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

 
>  
>I've used it very successfully in the past, with no bonding issues….as for the cosmetics, I can only say it's not a perfect world…..
>
>
>
>
>On Feb 23, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>  
>>
>>
>>Thanks Barry.
>>
>>Now wer're getting somewhere: Surely it would be better to melt / weld some pewter (very low melting point) into the damaged area?
>>
>>(if indeed silverite = pewter).
>>
>>This may have been discussed elsewhere, but I'm new to the group and I haven't finished reading the last ten years' posts....forgive me.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>DJSmart
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:41 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks...I guess that clears that up..
>>>
>>>There must be an alternative, however, to practically 'sucking on' solder in the mouth.
>>>
It may be safe for plumbing...but there's a big difference between it being in your mouth and present in the joins in your plumbing.
>>>
>>>If there isn't, that's OK. 
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>DJSmart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards, DJSmart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:31 PM, barrylevine <barrylevine@norwoodlight.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>>Plumbers solder doesn't contain lead anymore.
>>>>Since the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1986 the use of lead-containing solders in potable water systems has effectively been banned nationwide. The major impact of the Act has been on solder containing 50% tin and 50% lead (50-50), until then the most widely used solder for drinking water systems. 
>>>>Lead-base solders have been replaced by tin-antimony and tin-silver solders. The main differences between these solders and 50-50 are that they are stronger and require somewhat higher working temperatures. Many plumbers in the United States have used them in copper plumbing systems for decades 
>>>>The composition of Silverite has been discussed before (was it Pewter?), but I don't recall what it is, or its melting point.
>>>>
>>>>BL
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>On 2014-02-23 15:44, David Smart wrote: 
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>"Noun 1. soft solder- solder that melts at a relatively low temperature 
>>>>>solder - an alloy (usually of LEAD and tin) used when melted to join two metal surfaces"
>>>>>
>>>>>from this link: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soft+solder
>>>>>
>>>>>I've highlighted the reason it might be undesirable in the mouth...
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards, DJSmart
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:06 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>Can someone clarify what SOFT/HARD Solder are? Or provide some links to read about these?
>>>>>>thx
>>>>>>GV  
>>>>>>        
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>
>>
>>   
>    



 

I got a piece that was mauled by a postal truck running over it. The whole
piece was flattened out, it had cracks in the shank and the table was so
out of shape that by sanding I made a hole in it. It was an experiment in
futility anyway so I filled the hole in the table and fixed the crack. The
shank was melting away doing it so I had to be careful to add more material
than it goes. Finally I made it playable again but not sellable. I agree,
epoxy would be a easier and better solution.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:29 PM, <frymorgan@...> wrote:

>
>
> Have you done this with a Dukoff before?   It being almost all tin itself
> I'd be concerned I'd melt the piece itself if I got it hot enough for the
> solder to stick (lead-free solder usually being tin itself).
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

In a phone call with Boots Randolph I asked if he had problems with the very soft metal of the Dukoffs.  He said, yes, but if he dinged one, he had a drawer full and just got another one.  When his drawer of Dukoffs got low, they sent him some more.  ;- )

Paul

Dear Experts
Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
many thanks
GV

Hi Gianni,

I'm guessing by your name that you're in Italy, so I don't know if
Howarth's of London is any good to you,  but the modern equivalent of the
mouthpiece you have costs £180.00 (including sales tax) in their shop.

Link: http://www.howarth.uk.com/sxmouthpieces.html

All the best,

David.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Experts
> Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
> I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not
> sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply.
> I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not
> affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint
> on this?
> About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know
> details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was
> amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving
> now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the
> native characteristics of Dukoffs...).
> Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where
> (if) can be bounght?
> many thanks
> GV
>  
>

If you have access to a kiln, you can make partial molds (rough/oversized) of the inner and outer surfaces with terra cotta, dry and bisque fire, adjust to fit (sand), then wire/wedge in place.  If you heat the area very gently (slowly) with a small torch flame, the clay won't crack.  You an melt the damaged area and fill as needed with solder.  Let cool and refinish the surfaces.  

That's more trouble than an old Dukoff may be worth though, but if done well, there will be no sign of repair.



On Monday, February 24, 2014 10:41 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Hi Gianni, 

I'm guessing by your name that you're in Italy, so I don't know if Howarth's of London is any good to you,  but the modern equivalent of the mouthpiece you have costs £180.00 (including sales tax) in their shop.

Link: http://www.howarth.uk.com/sxmouthpieces.html

All the best,

David.




On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM, <gianniveloce@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
>  
>Dear Experts
>Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
>I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
>About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
>Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
>many thanks
>GV

I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...




________________________________
 From: "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@yahoo.com>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
 


  
Dear Experts
Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
many thanks
GV

Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  



On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
 
  
I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...




________________________________
 From: "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
 


  
Dear Experts
Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
many thanks
GV

none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff…..


On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

> 
> Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  
> 
> 
> On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>  
> I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
> I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
> 
> 
> From: "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
> 
>  
> Dear Experts
> Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
> I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
> About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
> Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
> many thanks
> GV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

(to Steve)

Well....what's a vintage mouthpiece worth?
The modern version costs £180 in London...(less than $2.00 change from
$300.00), and that's before postage,
what's it cost in Louisiana?

Even if he ends up paying $200 (at most) for the repair, having saved a
vintage mouthpiece *and* $100.00 ain't a bad deal.

Regards,

David


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:43 AM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

>
>
> none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff.....
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the
> damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import
> welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your
> area that can do that for you.
>
>
>   On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...>
> wrote:
>
>  I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from
> http://www.tekcast.com
> I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>
>
>  Dear Experts
> Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
> I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not
> sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply.
> I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not
> affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint
> on this?
> About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know
> details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was
> amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving
> now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the
> native characteristics of Dukoffs...).
> Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where
> (if) can be bounght?
> many thanks
> GV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

If you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing - easier/neater than epoxy.   A welder with nothing to do might do it for $50.00.  Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it.



On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
 
  
none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff…..



On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:

  
>
>
>Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  
>
>
>
>On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>  
>I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
>I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
> 
>
>
>  
>Dear Experts
>Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
>I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
>About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
>Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
>many thanks
>GV
>
>
>
>
>
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------JB Weld epoxy is the industry standard for small mouthpiece repairs. All this
talk of welding and soldering is overcomplicated nonsense. \\---
lancelotburt@yahoo.com wrote: From: MartinMods  To:
"MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com"  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a
Dukoff? Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:02:59 -0800 (PST) If you just happen to have
access to a welder and some experience, it's a matter 5 minutes set-up and a
few seconds of electricity, then finishing - easier/neater than epoxy. A
welder with nothing to do might do it for $50.00. Some just sit around welding
tin foil for the fun of it. On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE
GOODSON  wrote: none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter
Dukoff….. On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods
<[lancelotburt@yahoo.com](mailto:lancelotburt@yahoo.com)> wrote: > > > > > >
Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig (low amps) welding and repair the >
damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler. Miller and some import >
welders work well at that low power setting. There may be someone in your >
area that can do that for you. > > > > > > On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28
PM, Will Schmit > <[anchornm@yahoo.com](mailto:anchornm@yahoo.com)> wrote: > >
> > > I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from >
[http://www.tekcast.com](http://www.tekcast.com/) > I pour the pewter (or Brit
metal) directly into the mold... > > > > > > > * * * **From:**
"[gianniveloce@yahoo.com](mailto:gianniveloce@yahoo.com)"
<[gianniveloce@yahoo.com](mailto:gianniveloce@yahoo.com)> **To:**
[MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)
**Sent:** Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM **Subject:** Re: [MouthpieceWork]
Repair a Dukoff? Dear Experts Thank you for the many and enlighting answers. I
have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if
I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am
thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the
epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this? About the
MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an
Ebay item some years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It
chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is
that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of
Dukoffs...). Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today
and where (if) can be bounght? many thanks GV * * * Netscape. Just the Net You
Need.

*shudders....scary.

(Pass the epoxy.....)


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:02 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>
>
> If you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a
> matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing -
> easier/neater than epoxy.   A welder with nothing to do might do it for
> $50.00.  Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it.
>
>
>   On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...>
> wrote:
>
>  none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff.....
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the
> damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import
> welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your
> area that can do that for you.
>
>
>   On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...>
> wrote:
>
>  I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from
> http://www.tekcast.com
> I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>
>
>  Dear Experts
> Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
> I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not
> sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply.
> I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not
> affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint
> on this?
> About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know
> details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was
> amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving
> now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the
> native characteristics of Dukoffs...).
> Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where
> (if) can be bounght?
> many thanks
> GV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    
>

Low amperage/micro TIG welding has become a standard in jewelry and fine metal work, worldwide, and I'm certain it isn't going to go away despite opposition from some of you here - quite the contrary.  If you aren't aware of the truly amazing things that can be done with it, it is well worth learning about. I do it regularly and would never dream of using the comparatively crude and temporary solution of using epoxy to repair anything metal, ever again.   



On Monday, February 24, 2014 5:12 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
*shudders....scary.

(Pass the epoxy.....)




On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:02 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>If you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing - easier/neater than epoxy.   A welder with nothing to do might do it for $50.00.  Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it.
>
>
>
>On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff…..
>
>
>
>
>On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
>  
>>
>>
>>Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  
>>
>>
>>
>>On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
>>I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: "gianniveloce@yahoo.com" <gianniveloce@...>
>>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
>>Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
>>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>> 
>>
>>
>>  
>>Dear Experts
>>Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
>>I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
>>About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
>>Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
>>many thanks
>>GV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

 

Looks like a cool technique (I watched some youtube videos, both of
micro and macro). 

OTOH, from what I read elsewhere, it sounds like
mastering it as a skill is non-trivial, compared to applying some
JB-Weld and and then filing etc. Do you care to comment on your learning
curve? 

BTW, for a mouthpiece repair, I don't think JB-Weld would be
"temporary" unless no steps were taken to ensure adequate adhesion.


How about some numbers on the initial outlay for equipment. 

What
welding wire would you use to add to a rail on Silverite? 

Are you
using it in your other saxophone modifications? Any pix online? 

On
2014-02-24 21:33, MartinMods wrote: 

> Low amperage/micro TIG welding
has become a standard in jewelry and fine metal work, worldwide, and I'm
certain it isn't going to go away despite opposition from some of you
here - quite the contrary. If you aren't aware of the truly amazing
things that can be done with it, it is well worth learning about. I do
it regularly and would never dream of using the comparatively crude and
temporary solution of using epoxy to repair anything metal, ever again.

> 
> On Monday, February 24, 2014 5:12 PM, David Smart wrote:
> 
>
*shudders....scary.
> 
> (Pass the epoxy.....) 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 25,
2014 at 1:02 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@... [8]> wrote:
> 
>> If
you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a
matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing
- easier/neater than epoxy. A welder with nothing to do might do it for
$50.00. Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it. 
>> 
>>
On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...
[6]> wrote:
>> 
>> none of that makes any economic sense at all for a
pewter Dukoff….. 
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods
<lancelotburt@... [7]> wrote: 
>> 
>>> Or, you can use
micro-tig/pulse tig (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with
a thin strip of pewter as filler. Miller and some import welders work
well at that low power setting. There may be someone in your area that
can do that for you. 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM,
Will Schmit <anchornm@... [1]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use Dow Corning
silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com [2]
>>> I
pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>>> 
>>>
-------------------------
>>> FROM: "gianniveloce@... [3]"
<gianniveloce@... [4]>
>>> TO: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [5]

>>> SENT: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
>>> SUBJECT: Re:
[MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>>> 
>>> Dear Experts
>>> Thank you
for the many and enlighting answers.
>>> I have understood that epoxy is
the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific
brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create
first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and
the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
>>> About the
MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was
an Ebay item some years ago and not played so much as I was amateur
then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now)
and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the
native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
>>> Does anyone know how much is
the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
>>>
many thanks
>>> GV
> 
> 




Links:
------
[1] mailto:anchornm@...
[2]
http://www.tekcast.com/
[3] mailto:gianniveloce@...
[4]
mailto:gianniveloce@...
[5]
mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
[6] mailto:saxgourmet@...
[7]
mailto:lancelotburt@...
[8] mailto:lancelotburt@...
[9]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMWF0dG1jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNTI2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzI5NTYxMA--?act=reply&messageNum=11526
[10]
mailto:lancelotburt@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[11]
mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F
[12]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNWs3OXY5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzI5NTYxMA--
[13]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/message/11483;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bDFndG9vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNTI2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzI5NTYxMAR0cGNJZAMxMTQ4Mw--
[14]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork
[15]
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
[16]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork;_ylc=X3oDMTJlczQ2YzE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM5MzI5NTYxMA--
[17]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZjRla3EzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzOTMyOTU2MTA-?o=6
[18]
http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkY3JxMGE0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzkzMjk1NjEw
[19]
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[21]
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

hello Experts
Seems my post triggered interesting discussions. Glad for this.
Actually I have access to welding equipment and looks a promising alternative.
I would like to ask you all a favour: If anyone (preferably in Europe) has any 'scratch' silverite Dukoff to send me to practice before attemting on my own MP. 
Still remember the first motherboard repair that sent it to R.I.P...
Of course I will pay the shipping cost and report back my experience to the group.

Many thanks/ For offers you can contact me directly by email.
GV
 

---In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:

 Looks like a cool technique (I watched some youtube videos, both of micro and macro).
 OTOH, from what I read elsewhere, it sounds like mastering it as a skill is non-trivial, compared to applying some JB-Weld and and then filing etc. Do you care to comment on your learning curve?
 BTW, for a mouthpiece repair, I don't think JB-Weld would be "temporary" unless no steps were taken to ensure adequate adhesion.
 How about some numbers on the initial outlay for equipment.
 What welding wire would  you use to add to a rail on Silverite?
 Are you using it in your other saxophone modifications? Any pix online?
  
  
 On 2014-02-24 21:33, MartinMods wrote:
    
 Low amperage/micro TIG welding has become a standard in jewelry and fine metal work, worldwide, and I'm certain it isn't going to go away despite opposition from some of you here - quite the contrary.  If you aren't aware of the truly amazing things that can be done with it, it is well worth learning about. I do it regularly and would never dream of using the comparatively crude and temporary solution of using epoxy to repair anything metal, ever again.   
 

 On Monday, February 24, 2014 5:12 PM, David Smart wrote:

   *shudders....scary.


 (Pass the epoxy.....)
 

 On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:02 AM, MartinMods  wrote:
   If you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing - easier/neater than epoxy.   A welder with nothing to do might do it for $50.00.  Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it.
 

 On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON  wrote:

   none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff…..
  
 
 On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods  wrote:
 
    
 Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  
 

 On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit  wrote:

   I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com http://www.tekcast.com/
 I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
 

  
 From: "gianniveloce@... mailto:gianniveloce@..." 
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?

 
   Dear Experts
Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
 About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
 Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
many thanks
GV

  



 








  

  

 








  





  



 









  







  

  

 









 


  
  
 

Barry/GV, 

If I was not into fine metalwork at all, I would most likely use epoxy and be satisfied with the functional results, but for those who are serious about the art of working with metal, that just won't do.  Being able to take pride in the results is worth the extra effort.  Anything less than a metal based solution would be temporary, since it would be a mistake and have to be redone correctly. Different strokes.

Advances in inverter technology have sent the prices for TIG welders plummeting.  One wouldn't consider the expense for the occasional mouthpiece repair alone certainly, but for anyone who works with metal fabrication at all, it is such an invaluable/flexible tool, that price is not really an issue.  The steepness of the learning curve is inversely proportional to the amount of interest + aptitude for hand work.  Like refacing mouthpieces, it takes a certain amount of knowledge and practice.  The more you do it, the better you will be.  The attached pict shows a mouthpiece cap I make, welding .024" stainless steel sheet.

Repairing a pewter rail would use a pulsed, low amp setting and the thinnest tungsten possible, sharpened and polished - just enough localized power to create a tiny puddle of molten metal.  Then you add briefly, the end of an equally thin strip of pewter filler into that puddle, and move that sequence across the area to be filled, layer after layer, until done - very similar to what a 3D printer does.  

I would buy thin pewter sheet to cut into wire-thin filler pieces, and some rail thick pieces to practice on - available from various suppliers.




On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:12 AM, "gianniveloce@yahoo.com" <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
 
  
hello Experts
Seems my post triggered interesting discussions. Glad for this.
Actually I have access to welding equipment and looks a promising alternative.
I would like to ask you all a favour: If anyone (preferably in Europe) has any 'scratch' silverite Dukoff to send me to practice before attemting on my own MP. 
Still remember the first motherboard repair that sent it to R.I.P...
Of course I will pay the shipping cost and report back my experience to the group.

Many thanks/ For offers you can contact me directly by email.
GV



---In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, <barrylevine@...> wrote:


Looks like a cool technique (I watched some youtube videos, both of micro and macro).
OTOH, from what I read elsewhere, it sounds like mastering it as a skill is non-trivial, compared to applying some JB-Weld and and then filing etc. Do you care to comment on your learning curve?
BTW, for a mouthpiece repair, I don't think JB-Weld would be "temporary" unless no steps were taken to ensure adequate adhesion.
How about some numbers on the initial outlay for equipment.
What welding wire would  you use to add to a rail on Silverite?
Are you using it in your other saxophone modifications? Any pix online?
 
 
On 2014-02-24 21:33, MartinMods wrote:
> 
>> 
>>Low amperage/micro TIG welding has become a standard in jewelry and fine metal work, worldwide, and I'm certain it isn't going to go away despite opposition from some of you here - quite the contrary.  If you aren't aware of the truly amazing things that can be done with it, it is well worth learning about. I do it regularly and would never dream of using the comparatively crude and temporary solution of using epoxy to repair anything metal, ever again.   
>>
>>
>>
>>On Monday, February 24, 2014 5:12 PM, David Smart wrote:
>>
>> 
>>*shudders....scary.
>>
>>
(Pass the epoxy.....)
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:02 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>If you just happen to have access to a welder and some experience, it's a matter 5 minutes set-up and a few seconds of electricity, then finishing - easier/neater than epoxy.   A welder with nothing to do might do it for $50.00.  Some just sit around welding tin foil for the fun of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:47 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>none of that makes any economic sense at all for a pewter Dukoff…..
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>Or, you can use micro-tig/pulse tig  (low amps) welding and repair the damaged area with a thin strip of pewter as filler.  Miller and some import welders work well at that low power setting.  There may be someone in your area that can do that for you.  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Monday, February 24, 2014 4:28 PM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>I use Dow Corning silicone mold rubber --- I buy from http://www.tekcast.com
>>>>I pour the pewter (or Brit metal) directly into the mold...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>From: "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...>
>>>>To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
>>>>Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 11:00 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>Dear Experts
>>>>Thank you for the many and enlighting answers.
>>>>I have understood that epoxy is the mostly prefered repair material. Not sure if I find the specific brand/type in Europe though. And how to apply. I am thinking to create first a sort of "mold" by some material not affected by the epoxy and the place the epoxy. But what material? Any hint on this?
>>>>About the MP. it is a vintage Dukoff Miami Large Chamber. Do not know details was an Ebay item some  years ago and not played so much as I was amateur then, It chirped a lot (and still is but my control is forgiving now) and my guess is that the rail problem contributes to it (beside the native characteristics of Dukoffs...). 
>>>>Does anyone know how much is the market price of this MP today and where (if) can be bounght?
>>>>many thanks
>>>>GV
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
> 
> 

Time to beat a dead horse.
 Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
 http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId&29346&cp%68443.2568450.2628094.2629278 http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId&29346&cp%68443.2568450.2628094.2629278
 

 To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
 http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
 The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
 

 All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
 

 I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
 

 

 
 

Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo




On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@...> wrote:
 
  
Time to beat a dead horse.
Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278

To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.

All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.

I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.





>

>

Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that
model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you
posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>
>
> Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).
>  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together
> without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up
> material.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>   On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <
> grassinospam@...> wrote:
>
>  Time to beat a dead horse.
> Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus
> the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in
> different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft
> solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in
> between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making.
> Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the
> mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that
> is good for the solder and the metal.
>
> http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId&29346&cp%68443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
> To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing
> applications since 1986.
> http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html
> The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and
> instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or
> extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get
> it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was
> hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
> All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had
> it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air
> conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is
> NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues
> here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth,
> use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
> I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You
> could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck
> if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    
>

I have a Dukoff Miami alto D8* that I do not think can be refaced to repair.  Someone sanded the table down to where the tip only measures .032" now and the facing length is 16.   If you want it to practice welding on let me know at mojomouthpiecework@ yahoo.com

That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  

There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.

I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.





On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.




On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
>Time to beat a dead horse.
>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
>
>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
>
>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
>
>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>

That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  

There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.

I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.





On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.




On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
>Time to beat a dead horse.
>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
>
>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
>
>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
>
>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>

Actually, the cap pict I posted earlier was in fact brazed, I see now.  Here is a welded one, pre-polish.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:19 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
  
That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  

There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.

I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.





On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.




On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>Time to beat a dead horse.
>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
>
>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
>
>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
>
>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>

Was finally able to take a few minutes to mess around with this today.  I took a Dukoff wall thin piece of lead and was able to easily fuse thin wire solder to it and build up the surface, without the lead melting away or deforming at all.  Much faster and neater than trying to do it with a torch or iron.  All kinds of  DC settings worked - spot, pulse, and normal, low (<5) amp combinations.  At 2 amps I had to beg the lead to melt.  Wonderful.  I'm throwing my soldering iron away.  Should be just as easy with pewter filler.  Good-by epoxy.

So, your nearest DIY metal fabricator should be able to do this for you in 10 minutes, if he has half a brain - or, get a half decent welder yourself and start having fun.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:44 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
  
[Attachment(s) from MartinMods included below]
Actually, the cap pict I posted earlier was in fact brazed, I see now.  Here is a welded one, pre-polish.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:19 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
  
That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  

There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.

I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.





On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.




On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
>Time to beat a dead horse.
>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
>
>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
>
>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
>
>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>

I'm getting a Dukoff in tomorrow for repair, so I'll make some process picts for you guys.  I'm going to use 95/5 solder.  I think Silverite is actually 98% tin, so there may be some very slight color difference.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 3:57 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...m> wrote:
 
  
Was finally able to take a few minutes to mess around with this today.  I took a Dukoff wall thin piece of lead and was able to easily fuse thin wire solder to it and build up the surface, without the lead melting away or deforming at all.  Much faster and neater than trying to do it with a torch or iron.  All kinds of  DC settings worked - spot, pulse, and normal, low (<5) amp combinations.  At 2 amps I had to beg the lead to melt.  Wonderful.  I'm throwing my soldering iron away.  Should be just as easy with pewter filler.  Good-by epoxy.

So, your nearest DIY metal fabricator should be able to do this for you in 10 minutes, if he has half a brain - or, get a half decent welder yourself and start having fun.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:44 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
  
[Attachment(s) from MartinMods included below] 
Actually, the cap pict I posted earlier was in fact brazed, I see now.  Here is a welded one, pre-polish.



On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:19 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
  
That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  

There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.

I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.





On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
Did you say you use this?
How much do they cost?

Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).

Very interesting; thank you.

David.




On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

 
>  
>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>Time to beat a dead horse.
>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>
>
>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>
>
>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>
>
>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>

I copied this off SOTW a while back:

hardbop
05-01-2007, 12:52 AM
As I had promised, I got my hands on a unplated Silverite Dukoff D8. I had it analyzed with a X-ray particular material appraisal gun.

HERE IT IS !

98.32% Sn (Tin)
1.68% Cu (Copper)

So, as I had thought, they are basically a tin alloy. 


> On Feb 28, 2014, at 1:19 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
> I'm getting a Dukoff in tomorrow for repair, so I'll make some process picts for you guys.  I'm going to use 95/5 solder.  I think Silverite is actually 98% tin, so there may be some very slight color difference.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 3:57 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> Was finally able to take a few minutes to mess around with this today.  I took a Dukoff wall thin piece of lead and was able to easily fuse thin wire solder to it and build up the surface, without the lead melting away or deforming at all.  Much faster and neater than trying to do it with a torch or iron.  All kinds of  DC settings worked - spot, pulse, and normal, low (<5) amp combinations.  At 2 amps I had to beg the lead to melt.  Wonderful.  I'm throwing my soldering iron away.  Should be just as easy with pewter filler.  Good-by epoxy.
> 
> So, your nearest DIY metal fabricator should be able to do this for you in 10 minutes, if he has half a brain - or, get a half decent welder yourself and start having fun.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:44 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> [Attachment(s) from MartinMods included below]
> Actually, the cap pict I posted earlier was in fact brazed, I see now.  Here is a welded one, pre-polish.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:19 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>  
> That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  
> 
> There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
>  
> Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
> and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
> Did you say you use this?
> How much do they cost?
> 
> Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).
> 
> Very interesting; thank you.
> 
> David.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@...> wrote:
>  
> Time to beat a dead horse.
> Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
> http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId&29346&cp%68443.2568450.2628094.2629278
> 
> To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
> http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html
> The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
> 
> All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
> 
> I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Saw that.  Thanks. R98 (98% Tin, 1.5% Bismuth, 0.5% Copper) is the closest commonly available alloy I can find to that.  It comes as an ingot for casting. ).



On Friday, February 28, 2014 7:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
 
  
I copied this off SOTW a while back:

hardbop
05-01-2007, 12:52 AM
As I had promised, I got my hands on a unplated Silverite Dukoff D8. I had it analyzed with a X-ray particular material appraisal gun.

HERE IT IS !

98.32% Sn (Tin)
1.68% Cu (Copper)

So, as I had thought, they are basically a tin alloy. 



On Feb 28, 2014, at 1:19 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:


  
>I'm getting a Dukoff in tomorrow for repair, so I'll make some process picts for you guys.  I'm going to use 95/5 solder.  I think Silverite is actually 98% tin, so there may be some very slight color difference.
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 3:57 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>Was finally able to take a few minutes to mess around with this today.  I took a Dukoff wall thin piece of lead and was able to easily fuse thin wire solder to it and build up the surface, without the lead melting away or deforming at all.  Much faster and neater than trying to do it with a torch or iron.  All kinds of  DC settings worked - spot, pulse, and normal, low (<5) amp combinations.  At 2 amps I had to beg the lead to melt.  Wonderful.  I'm throwing my soldering iron away.  Should be just as easy with pewter filler.  Good-by epoxy.
>
>
>So, your nearest DIY metal fabricator should be able to do this for you in 10 minutes, if he has half a brain - or, get a half decent welder yourself and start having fun.
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:44 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>[Attachment(s) from MartinMods included below] 
>Actually, the cap pict I posted earlier was in fact brazed, I see now.  Here is a welded one, pre-polish.
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:19 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>  
>That is actual welding - the base metal melts fusing the two pieces together.  To fill, you add the thin filler rod so it melts at the same time and fuses with the base metal.  Use the right filler (strip of cut, hammered thin, old Dukoff, or same pewter alloy) and the repair will be undetectable.  The hottest part of the arc can go up to 35,000F, but that heat is concentrated and one can so precisely control and direct that heat, that it is like fine sculpting with molten metal.  
>
>
>There are a few companies that market specialized welders like this one, which automate the tungsten movement, for use with a microscope.  You can imagine what they cost. They are overkill for repairing a Dukoff.  A good, Miller, Everlast, etc., pulse TIG will spot weld at 1 amp, with .1 sec duration, or pulse at 1hz to 500hz with precise control over the duration of peak arc time - 1% - 99% of each pulse, and you have hand control over tungsten location/angle/movement, amount and feed of filler, and foot pedal control over the end amperage/heat/trigger.  Some imports are < $1000.
>
>
>I'm not suggesting that you go out an buy one, rather, find someone who has one and knows how to use it, and see if they are willing to do some tests on scrap pewter, to get a feel for it and the required settings.  If you are interested in diving in yourself, you'll have to learn all about and practice normal TIG welding of steel/aluminum/stainless, welding tips, heat sinks, etc., before you can hope to have any success with pewter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:00 AM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>Now that looks very interesting (martinmods)...They don't advertise that model on their site now (it's a '250i' now),
>and (quite cleverly) avoid the issue of price.
>Did you say you use this?
>How much do they cost?
>
>Does it acutally 'weld' or 'solder' (in the case of the mouthpiece cap you posted).
>
>Very interesting; thank you.
>
>David.
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> 
>>  
>>Most pulse TIG welders have a spot weld setting (triggered single pulses).  In this video the user is fusing two broken pieces of pewter together without filler.  The same spot weld can be done with filler, to build up material.  
>>
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyazFGMKQGo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 6:59 AM, "grassinospam@..." <grassinospam@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>Time to beat a dead horse.
>>Just at Ace Hardware, there are about 32 types of solder available, plus the varieties available from Ferree's and Allied. You can get solders in different melting temps; no lead mixes vary from the tin/antimony "soft solder" to the silver " hard solder" for brazing and a varieties in between. I have some "low temp hard solder" for multi step key making. Figure that name out. You would need to know the melting point of the mouthpiece metal and pick a solder that melts first. Then pick a flux that is good for the solder and the metal.
>>http://www.acehardware.com/family/index.jsp;jsessionid=N1yQTN7DvmFXl0YMZLLFm1YXgK726yQnLbQjQPhWxLRTN7G38R7z!1679958544?view=full&categoryId=2629346&cp=2568443.2568450.2628094.2629278
>>
>>
>>To confirm, lead free solder has been required in all plumbing applications since 1986.
>>http://www.copper.org/environment/water/e_p_lead.html 
>>The 50/50 or 60/40 solders with lead are for arts, crafts, hobby and instrument repair where the user will not come into prolonged or extensive contact with the lead. I am surprised the EPA still lets us get it. If I remember right, in the late 80's and early 90's, lead solder was hard to find except in little packs of rosin core at Radio Shack.
>>
>>
>>All that said, the epoxy, J B weld, is used on engine blocks. I have had it holding together a heater control lever to a shaft (that runs an air conditioning flap) in a car for decades. If you have a clean surface, it is NOT a temporary, easy way out. Strength and durability are not issues here. If you do not like the idea of a automotive product in your mouth, use the drinking water safe epoxy and ignore the white color.
>>
>>
>>I have never had something welded that did not warp at least a bit. You could end up with the rail fixed, but the mouthpiece all crooked. Good luck if you try it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I have a Miami Dukoff that is brighter and smoother than the Dukoffs I usually see. Did Dukoff experiment with different materials/alloys? Jeff

Dukoffs vary dimensionally though the years.  The size of the wart and side squeeze in the throat area varies.  The baffles vary.  The facing quality varies.  These are more significant than any material variation would be.

> On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:36 PM, <jdtoddjazz@...> wrote:
> 
> I have a Miami Dukoff that is brighter and smoother than the Dukoffs I usually see. Did Dukoff experiment with different materials/alloys? Jeff
> 
> 

I think I was unclear in my question. Instead of "bright", which could be understood in sonic terms, I should have said "shiny": this piece is a shiny silver color instead of a pewter gray. Did Dukoff experiment with different materials and alloys in Miami? Of course they used brass and HR prior to that. 

jdtoddjazz, is the mouthpiece (as) shiny on the inside as it is on the
outside?
Does it look like a similar finish?

It's probably been polished. I haven't seen a 'shiny' one before.


On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 3:13 PM, <jdtoddjazz@...> wrote:

>
>
> I think I was unclear in my question. Instead of "bright", which could be
> understood in sonic terms, I should have said "shiny": this piece is a
> shiny silver color instead of a pewter gray. Did Dukoff experiment with
> different materials and alloys in Miami? Of course they used brass and HR
> prior to that.
>  
>

in the 70's they made mouthpieces of nickel plated brass……I don'y know when they stopped



On Feb 23, 2014, at 5:10 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:

> 
> Kinda the whole point of the group, isn't it Steve?
> Not 'idealists' vs 'retailers' or anything...but don't we do this 'because we can' (or die trying)?
> 
> How much does a silverite Dukoff cost nowadays anyway (to compare time spent + materials + thinking time + group discussion time etc.....?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> DJSmart
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:57 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>  
> you guys are going to an awful lot of trouble to rescue a silverite Dukoff……why not just buy another one?
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 10:31 AM, gianniveloce@... wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Thanks for your fast reply. 
>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
>> Then how to apply the solder?
>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to better bond with solder?)
>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>> 
>> thank you
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

The past few years they have been buffed to a shiny luster.  When they first started doing it, I thought they had gone back to nickel plating them.  They will still turn gray after a few years.

Often you see what looks like the edge of a metal skin hanging below the table on the new ones.   I though it had the table masked off and it was a plating edge.  But this is from their buffing.

> On Mar 2, 2014, at 10:13 AM, <jdtoddjazz@...> wrote:
> 
> I think I was unclear in my question. Instead of "bright", which could be understood in sonic terms, I should have said "shiny": this piece is a shiny silver color instead of a pewter gray. Did Dukoff experiment with different materials and alloys in Miami? Of course they used brass and HR prior to that. 
> 
> 

Nickel plated Silverite too.  


> On Mar 2, 2014, at 10:54 AM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
> 
> in the 70's they made mouthpieces of nickel plated brass……I don'y know when they stopped
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2014, at 5:10 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kinda the whole point of the group, isn't it Steve?
>> Not 'idealists' vs 'retailers' or anything...but don't we do this 'because we can' (or die trying)?
>> 
>> How much does a silverite Dukoff cost nowadays anyway (to compare time spent + materials + thinking time + group discussion time etc.....?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> DJSmart
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:57 PM, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>> you guys are going to an awful lot of trouble to rescue a silverite Dukoff……why not just buy another one?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 23, 2014, at 10:31 AM, gianniveloce@... wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Thanks for your fast reply. 
>>>> I confirm that I need to add some material on the internal side of the (side) rail (about <1mm missing).
>>>> Can you pls define the best solder type for this work? ( I use solder and soldering guns for my electronics so no problem to find the tools/material)
>>>> Then how to apply the solder?
>>>> Any mouthpiece preparation required? (Pre-heat, or sand it at the point to better bond with solder?)
>>>> Do not know how to attach photo/i will try though.
>>>> 
>>>> thank you
>>>> 
> 
> 

I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.

The Mouthpiece

Side Damage
Top Damage
Bite Plate Area

Tip And Rail Damage


Repair Phase 1:

Side Weld

Top Weld
Bite Plate Fill 01
Bite Plate Fill 02

No Melt Through

 

Wow. How'd that happen to the rails? 

Barry Levine 

On 2014-03-08
23:17, MartinMods wrote: 

> I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as
it is safe and readily available.. Looks to be an almost perfect color
match. A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect. Will clean up nicely. As
you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the
bite plate. Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and
then file/sand/finish. 
> 
> The Mouthpiece 
> 
> Side Damage [1] 
> 
>
Top Damage [2] 
> 
> Bite Plate Area [3] 
> 
> Tip And Rail Damage [4]

> 
> Repair Phase 1: 
> 
> Side Weld [5] 
> 
> Top Weld [6] 
> Bite
Plate Fill 01 [7] 
> Bite Plate Fill 02 [8] 
> No Melt Through [9] 
> 
>


 

Links:
------
[1]
http://www.martinmods.com/01%20side%20damage.jpg
[2]
http://www.martinmods.com/02%20-%20top%20damage.jpg
[3]
http://www.martinmods.com/03%20-%20fill%20bite%20plate.jpg
[4]
http://www.martinmods.com/04%20-%20rail%20+%20tip%20damage.jpg
[5]
http://www.martinmods.com/05%20-%20post-weld%2001.jpg
[6]
http://www.martinmods.com/06%20-%20post-weld%2002.jpg
[7]
http://www.martinmods.com/07%20-%20post-weld%2003.jpg
[8]
http://www.martinmods.com/08%20-%20post-weld%2004.jpg
[9]
http://www.martinmods.com/09%20-%20post-weld%2005.jpg
[10]
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWVxYzlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYyODI5MDAEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDMyMTk4BG1zZ0lkAzExNTYxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM5NDMzODYyMg--?act=reply&messageNum561
[11]
mailto:lancelotburt@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F%20%5B1%20Attachment%5D
[12]
mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BMouthpieceWork%5D%20Repair%20a%20Dukoff%3F%20%5B1%20Attachment%5D
[13]
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This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of it.



On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@norwoodlight.com> wrote:
 
Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
Barry Levine
 
On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
  
> 
>I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
> 
>The Mouthpiece
> 
> 
>Side Damage
> 
>Top Damage
> 
>Bite Plate Area
> 
>Tip And Rail Damage
> 
>Repair Phase 1:
> 
> 
> 
>Side Weld
> 
>Top Weld
>Bite Plate Fill 01
>Bite Plate Fill 02
>No Melt Through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate, tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.

Side Finished
Top Finished
Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip

More Of Same
Rough Shape Rails + Tip




On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of it.



On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...> wrote:
 
Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
Barry Levine
 
On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
  
> 
>I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
> 
>The Mouthpiece
> 
> 
>Side Damage
> 
>Top Damage
> 
>Bite Plate Area
> 
>Tip And Rail Damage
> 
>Repair Phase 1:
> 
> 
> 
>Side Weld
> 
>Top Weld
>Bite Plate Fill 01
>Bite Plate Fill 02
>No Melt Through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

You do nice work, but unless it was a technical exercise was a chewed-out
old Dukoff worth the effort?

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of MartinMods
Sent: Monday, 10 March 2014 11:14 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff? [1 Attachment]

 

Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate,
tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.

 

Side Finished <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>


Top Finished <http://www.martinmods.com/11%20-%20final%20top%20repair.jpg> 

Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip
<http://www.martinmods.com/12%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2
001.jpg> 

 
<http://www.martinmods.com/13%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2
002.jpg> More Of Same

Rough Shape Rails + Tip
<http://www.martinmods.com/14%20-%20rough%20shape%20rails%20+%20tip.jpg> 

 

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is
offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the
window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to
the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the
Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I
took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration
purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of
it.

 

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...>
wrote:

Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?

Barry Levine

 

On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:

  

 

I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily
available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but
practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no
melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add
material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.

 

The Mouthpiece

 

 

Side Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/01%20side%20damage.jpg> 

 

Top Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/02%20-%20top%20damage.jpg> 

 

Bite Plate Area <http://www.martinmods.com/03%20-%20fill%20bite%20plate.jpg>


 

Tip And Rail Damage
<http://www.martinmods.com/04%20-%20rail%20+%20tip%20d%20%20amage.jpg> 

 

Repair Phase 1:

 

 

 

Side Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/05%20-%20post-weld%2001.jpg> 

 

Top Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/06%20-%20post-weld%2002.jpg> 

Bite Plate Fill 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/07%20-%20post-weld%2003.jpg> 

Bite Plate Fill 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/08%20-%20post-weld%2004.jpg> 

 <http://www.martinmods.com/09%20-%20post-weld%2005.jpg> No Melt Through

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 



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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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"You do nice work, but unless it was a technical exercise was a chewed-out old Dukoff worth the effort?
Tony F."
You will have to ask the owner when it's finished if he thinks it's still "chewed-out".   As for the effort, you should ask,  "Is any silverite Dukoff worth repairing?"  Being able to restore any damaged Dukoff to better than new condition with no more effort and material expense than making an epoxy repair, I have to say, "Yes.  Low amperage TIG repair is the only way to go."  I'll never use epoxy again.  That's nonsense.




On Sunday, March 9, 2014 5:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate, tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.

Side Finished
Top Finished
Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip

More Of Same
Rough Shape Rails + Tip




On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
 
This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of it.



On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...m> wrote:
 
Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
Barry Levine
 
On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
  
> 
>I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
> 
>The Mouthpiece
> 
> 
>Side Damage
> 
>Top Damage
> 
>Bite Plate Area
> 
>Tip And Rail Damage
> 
>Repair Phase 1:
> 
> 
> 
>Side Weld
> 
>Top Weld
>Bite Plate Fill 01
>Bite Plate Fill 02
>No Melt Through
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Yes, Tony....it was worth the effort.

It has been proven to me that a piece of equipment I had up to now shunned
as 'not my cup of tea'
(inappropriate, too hot, too expensive, etc.) is, in fact, extremely
versatile.
It only takes a moment to recognise the multiple uses this could be put to.

As for the mouthpiece itself....yes; it too was worth the effort.
As stated earlier, a modern Dukoff can't be had in the UK for (much) less
than $300.00.
I can imagine the repair for this mouthpiece to be a maximum of £200.00.
In which case, Martinmods has not only saved a vintage mouthpiece (even if
the table WAS badly milled)
AND (potentially) saved his customer $100.00.
Financially (does anyone care about anything else these days?), it is a HIT!

The repair carried out on this particular mouthpiece has changed it beyond
recognition (from a playing p.o.v.)
It will no doubt play better than when it was new.
But even if this had only been a minor repair....restoring a (good) vintage
mouthpiece to playing condition...
it would have been worth it because history, a beloved mouthpiece
and.....CULTURE (dammit) have been preserved.

I'll climb down off my soap-box now, as I'm sure y'all don't want to listen
to me all day,
I'm sure you'd rather read the other (much more interesting) posts about
mouthpiece repair,
But I'll leave you with the thought that if nobody thought to repair
mouthpieces (even abortions such as this Dukoff),
The understanding of the parameters of a mouthpiece would remain firmly in
the hands of the makers...with the retailers
and other "middlemen"....all ready to make a buck off you....leaving you
none the wiser.

As I understand it, these pages are for people to discuss how to repair
mouthpieces...not just 'buy a new one'.
So, I have to ask myself what you're doing here if you find the efforts so
futile?
You aren't, by any chance....a *retailer*, are you?

All the best,

David Smart.


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...>wrote:

>
>
> You do nice work, but unless it was a technical exercise was a chewed-out
> old Dukoff worth the effort?
>
> Tony F.
>
>
>
> *From:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *MartinMods
> *Sent:* Monday, 10 March 2014 11:14 AM
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@...m
> *Subject:* Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff? [1 Attachment]
>
>
>
> Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate,
> tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.
>
>
>
> Side Finished<http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>
>
> Top Finished <http://www.martinmods.com/11%20-%20final%20top%20repair.jpg>
>
> Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip<http://www.martinmods.com/12%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2001.jpg>
>
> More Of Same<http://www.martinmods.com/13%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2002.jpg>
>
> Rough Shape Rails + Tip<http://www.martinmods.com/14%20-%20rough%20shape%20rails%20+%20tip.jpg>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...>
> wrote:
>
> This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is
> offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the
> window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16"
> to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and
> the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's
> approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for
> demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself
> from the sound of it.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <
> barrylevine@...> wrote:
>
> Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
>
> Barry Levine
>
>
>
> On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily
> available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but
> practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was
> no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add
> material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
>
>
>
> The Mouthpiece
>
>
>
>
>
> Side Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/01%20side%20damage.jpg>
>
>
>
> Top Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/02%20-%20top%20damage.jpg>
>
>
>
> Bite Plate Area<http://www.martinmods.com/03%20-%20fill%20bite%20plate.jpg>
>
>
>
> Tip And Rail Damage<http://www.martinmods.com/04%20-%20rail%20+%20tip%20d%20%20amage.jpg>
>
>
>
> Repair Phase 1:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Side Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/05%20-%20post-weld%2001.jpg>
>
>
>
> Top Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/06%20-%20post-weld%2002.jpg>
>
> Bite Plate Fill 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/07%20-%20post-weld%2003.jpg>
>
> Bite Plate Fill 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/08%20-%20post-weld%2004.jpg>
>
> No Melt Through <http://www.martinmods.com/09%20-%20post-weld%2005.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>    <http://www.avast.com/>
>
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com/>protection is active.
>
>  
>

Impressive work, Martinmods.
Don't forget to post a pic of the finished mouthpiece, eh?

(I'm seriously looking at this machine....thank you).

All the best,

David.


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:13 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

> Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate,
> tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.
>
> Side Finished<http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>Top Finished<http://www.martinmods.com/11%20-%20final%20top%20repair.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg><http://www.martinmods.com/11%20-%20final%20top%20repair.jpg>Rough
> Shape Bite Plate + Tip<http://www.martinmods.com/12%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2001.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>More Of Same<http://www.martinmods.com/13%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2002.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg><http://www.martinmods.com/13%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2002.jpg>Rough
> Shape Rails + Tip<http://www.martinmods.com/14%20-%20rough%20shape%20rails%20+%20tip.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>
> <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>
>
>
>   On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...>
> wrote:
>  This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is
> offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the
> window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16"
> to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and
> the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's
> approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for
> demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself
> from the sound of it.
>
>
>   On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <
> barrylevine@...> wrote:
>   Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
> Barry Levine
>
> On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
>
>
>
>  I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily
> available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but
> practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was
> no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add
> material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
>
> The Mouthpiece
>
>
> Side Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/01%20side%20damage.jpg>
>
> Top Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/02%20-%20top%20damage.jpg>
>
> Bite Plate Area<http://www.martinmods.com/03%20-%20fill%20bite%20plate.jpg>
>
> Tip And Rail Damage<http://www.martinmods.com/04%20-%20rail%20+%20tip%20d%20%20amage.jpg>
>
> Repair Phase 1:
>
>
>
> Side Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/05%20-%20post-weld%2001.jpg>
>
> Top Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/06%20-%20post-weld%2002.jpg>
> Bite Plate Fill 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/07%20-%20post-weld%2003.jpg>
> Bite Plate Fill 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/08%20-%20post-weld%2004.jpg>
> No Melt Through <http://www.martinmods.com/09%20-%20post-weld%2005.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sounds convincing to me. I must investigate this technique. Thanks.

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of MartinMods
Sent: Monday, 10 March 2014 4:40 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff? [1 Attachment]

 

"You do nice work, but unless it was a technical exercise was a chewed-out
old Dukoff worth the effort?

Tony F."

You will have to ask the owner when it's finished if he thinks it's still
"chewed-out".   As for the effort, you should ask,  "Is any silverite Dukoff
worth repairing?"  Being able to restore any damaged Dukoff to better than
new condition with no more effort and material expense than making an epoxy
repair, I have to say, "Yes.  Low amperage TIG repair is the only way to
go."  I'll never use epoxy again.  That's nonsense.

 

 

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 5:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate,
tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.

 

Side Finished <http://www.martinmods.com/10%20-%20final%20side%20repair.jpg>


Top Finished <http://www.martinmods.com/11%20-%20final%20top%20repair.jpg> 

Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip
<http://www.martinmods.com/12%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2
001.jpg> 

 
<http://www.martinmods.com/13%20-%20rough%20shape%20bite%20plate%20+%20tip%2
002.jpg> More Of Same

Rough Shape Rails + Tip
<http://www.martinmods.com/14%20-%20rough%20shape%20rails%20+%20tip.jpg> 

 

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is
offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the
window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to
the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the
Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I
took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration
purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of
it.

 

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...>
wrote:

Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?

Barry Levine

 

On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:

  

 

I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily
available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but
practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no
melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add
material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.

 

The Mouthpiece

 

 

Side Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/01%20side%20damage.jpg> 

 

Top Damage <http://www.martinmods.com/02%20-%20top%20damage.jpg> 

 

Bite Plate Area <http://www.martinmods.com/03%20-%20fill%20bite%20plate.jpg>


 

Tip And Rail Damage
<http://www.martinmods.com/04%20-%20rail%20+%20tip%20d%20%20amage.jpg> 

 

Repair Phase 1:

 

 

 

Side Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/05%20-%20post-weld%2001.jpg> 

 

Top Weld <http://www.martinmods.com/06%20-%20post-weld%2002.jpg> 

Bite Plate Fill 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/07%20-%20post-weld%2003.jpg> 

Bite Plate Fill 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/08%20-%20post-weld%2004.jpg> 

 <http://www.martinmods.com/09%20-%20post-weld%2005.jpg> No Melt Through

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 

 



---
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David, 

You are welcome.  Some interesting facts:   I held the mouthpiece in my hand while welding it.  I could have repaired the side rails without removing the plastic bite plate, though I would have used a heat sink to be safe.  I now like pewter a lot as a mouthpiece material, much more than hard rubber, but not as much as stainless steel. Good material for a cheap line of mouthpieces.

Lance



On Sunday, March 9, 2014 10:49 PM, David Smart <davidsmart64@...> wrote:
 
  
Impressive work, Martinmods.
Don't forget to post a pic of the finished mouthpiece, eh?

(I'm seriously looking at this machine....thank you).

All the best,

David.




On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:13 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:

Here's the finished side and top repair, and the rough-shaped, bite plate, tip, and rail repair.  When finished, it will be refaced to a 9 tip opening.
>
>
>Side Finished
>Top Finished
>Rough Shape Bite Plate + Tip
>
>More Of Same
>Rough Shape Rails + Tip
>
>
>
>
>On Sunday, March 9, 2014 2:13 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
>This mouthpiece should have never been put on the market.  The table is offset 1/8" Left to the bore center line at the butt end, and the window/reed channel at the ramp end, is further offset Left another 1/16" to the table.  It had been dropped on the tip, so the tip rail is gone and the Right side rail is 1/8" shorter than the Left.  With the owner's approval, I took the "whacks" out of the rails with a bastard file, for demonstration purposes.  I think he had always wanted to do that himself from the sound of it.
>
>
>
>On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:56 AM, barrylevine <barrylevine@...> wrote:
> 
>Wow. How'd that happen to the rails?
>Barry Levine
> 
>On 2014-03-08 23:17, MartinMods wrote:
>  
>> 
>>I'm using 96/4 - Tin/Silver wire solder as it is safe and readily available..  Looks to be an almost perfect color match.  A bit sloppy but practice makes perfect.  Will clean up nicely.  As you can see, there was no melt-through or distortion due to filling the bite plate.  Next I'll add material to the tip, repair the rails, and then file/sand/finish.
>> 
>>The Mouthpiece
>> 
>> 
>>Side Damage
>> 
>>Top Damage
>> 
>>Bite Plate Area
>> 
>>Tip And Rail Damage
>> 
>>Repair Phase 1:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Side Weld
>> 
>>Top Weld
>>Bite Plate Fill 01
>>Bite Plate Fill 02
>>No Melt Through
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>

Hi David,

No, I'm definitely not a retailer and I've repaired more than a few
mouthpieces, mostly of the clarinet persuasion. My query was based purely on
the cost/benefit of this much work as a commercial proposition. I quite
accept that a completely unreasonable amount of work may be justified on a
mouthpiece that is, to somebody, all that they ever wanted or needed in a
mouthpiece. Done it myself and I would never consider it futile.

Regards,

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of David Smart
Sent: Monday, 10 March 2014 4:41 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?

 

  

Yes, Tony....it was worth the effort.

As I understand it, these pages are for people to discuss how to repair
mouthpieces...not just 'buy a new one'.

So, I have to ask myself what you're doing here if you find the efforts so
futile?

You aren't, by any chance....a retailer, are you?

All the best,

David Smart.

 



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;) No probs Tony...just checking.


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hi David,
>
> No, I'm definitely not a retailer and I've repaired more than a few
> mouthpieces, mostly of the clarinet persuasion. My query was based purely
> on the cost/benefit of this much work as a commercial proposition. I quite
> accept that a completely unreasonable amount of work may be justified on a
> mouthpiece that is, to somebody, all that they ever wanted or needed in a
> mouthpiece. Done it myself and I would never consider it futile.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony F.
>
>
>
> *From:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Smart
> *Sent:* Monday, 10 March 2014 4:41 PM
>
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [MouthpieceWork] Repair a Dukoff?
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, Tony....it was worth the effort.
>
> As I understand it, these pages are for people to discuss how to repair
> mouthpieces...not just 'buy a new one'.
>
> So, I have to ask myself what you're doing here if you find the efforts so
> futile?
>
> You aren't, by any chance....a *retailer*, are you?
>
> All the best,
>
> David Smart.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>    <http://www.avast.com/>
>
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus<http://www.avast.com/>protection is active.
>
>  
>

Hello experts, 
So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
For example, check this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)

GV

I do not regularly follow ebay prices.  A few years ago, the Miami Dukoff sop D8 was going for $450 or so.  Asian bidders were creating a demand because of their interest to have the same mouthpiece that Kenny G was using.  Miami alto and tenors were only going for $150 and non Miami AT $100.  

Prices went up some if new ones were out of stock at the retailers.   I'm not sure why the sop Miami D7 went for $860 except that two bidders wanted it real bad.


> On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
> 
> Hello experts, 
> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
> For example, check this one
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
> 
> GV
> 
> 

It was essentially in new condition.

> On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
> 
> Hello experts, 
> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
> For example, check this one
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
> 
> GV
> 
> 

Hardly.  It has had obvious, brutal baffle work done on it, refacing reference scratches on the outside of the Right side rail, a long crack in the roof (under the bite plate, and numerous metal cap (not original?) dings on the corners of the table.



On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
 
  
It was essentially in new condition.

On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:


  
>Hello experts, 
>So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
>For example, check this one
>http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
>Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
>Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>
>GV

$1300.00 for THAT?!

It makes sense to invest in a (micro) welder....

...and other stuff.


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:00 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hardly.  It has had obvious, brutal baffle work done on it, refacing
> reference scratches on the outside of the Right side rail, a long crack in
> the roof (under the bite plate, and numerous metal cap (not original?)
> dings on the corners of the table.
>
>
>   On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
> wrote:
>
>  It was essentially in new condition.
>
> On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello experts,
> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
> For example, check this one
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE
> CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>
> GV
>
>
>
>    
>

I just glanced at the eBay listing that said it was barely played as a clue to why the bids were high.  I did not look at the photos.



> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:00 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
> Hardly.  It has had obvious, brutal baffle work done on it, refacing reference scratches on the outside of the Right side rail, a long crack in the roof (under the bite plate, and numerous metal cap (not original?) dings on the corners of the table.
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>  
> It was essentially in new condition.
> 
>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hello experts, 
>> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
>> For example, check this one
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
>> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
>> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>> 
>> GV
> 
> 
> 
> 

I think we are talking about different mouthpieces here.  

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:00 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
> Hardly.  It has had obvious, brutal baffle work done on it, refacing reference scratches on the outside of the Right side rail, a long crack in the roof (under the bite plate, and numerous metal cap (not original?) dings on the corners of the table.
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>  
> It was essentially in new condition.
> 
>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Hello experts, 
>> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
>> For example, check this one
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
>> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
>> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>> 
>> GV
> 
> 
> 
> 

I'm referring the the ebay listing in the UK, the link provided by GV in the beginning of this thread - 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870&nma=true&si=Vdxf0%252BTANxAwrAhpwbP%252Fv2vaBq8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The mouthpiece sold for $1325.00.  The listing states "unused" but the pictures tell a completely different and more interesting story.  





On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 5:36 AM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
  
I think we are talking about different mouthpieces here.  

On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:00 AM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:


  
>Hardly.  It has had obvious, brutal baffle work done on it, refacing reference scratches on the outside of the Right side rail, a long crack in the roof (under the bite plate, and numerous metal cap (not original?) dings on the corners of the table.
>
>
>
>On Monday, March 10, 2014 4:16 PM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>It was essentially in new condition.
>
>On Mar 10, 2014, at 2:24 PM, <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>
>
>  
>>Hello experts, 
>>So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
>>For example, check this one
>>http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
>>Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
>>Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>>
>>GV
>
>

Good grief -Martin's right. If you use the zoom mouse-over feature you can see some amazing baffle butchery. I guess that the answer is that a fool and his money are easily parted!

Excellent demonstration, Kieth.




On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:51 AM, "gordon_loudon@..." <gordon_loudon@...> wrote:
 
  
Good grief -Martin's right. If you use the zoom mouse-over feature you can see some amazing baffle butchery. I guess that the answer is that a fool and his money are easily parted!

I see it now.  

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 1:18 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Excellent demonstration, Kieth.
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 8:51 AM, "gordon_loudon@..." <gordon_loudon@...> wrote:
>  
> Good grief -Martin's right. If you use the zoom mouse-over feature you can see some amazing baffle butchery. I guess that the answer is that a fool and his money are easily parted!
> 
> 
> 

Final shaping/1st refacing to .090".  Evened up the rails some.  Going to lower the baffle still and do a final facing/tip work.  As to how much work it was - no more than doing the same repair with epoxy.

Final Shape - Gets a Tooth Patch Still

Side View 01

Side View 02

Rails 01

Rails 02




On Monday, March 10, 2014 11:24 AM, "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
 
  
Hello experts, 
So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
For example, check this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)

GV

Great looking results!  Do you think a non-gas flux core welder would work?  Cheapo ones go for ~$125 and do not need a 220 volt supply.

> On Mar 11, 2014, at 10:05 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> 
> Final shaping/1st refacing to .090".  Evened up the rails some.  Going to lower the baffle still and do a final facing/tip work.  As to how much work it was - no more than doing the same repair with epoxy.
> 
> Final Shape - Gets a Tooth Patch Still
> Side View 01
> Side View 02
> Rails 01
> Rails 02
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 10, 2014 11:24 AM, "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>  
> Hello experts, 
> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
> For example, check this one
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
> 
> GV
> 
> 
> 

One certainly doesn't need 220V for this application.  Using flux core wire you have spatter, which will put pot holes all over your work.  A MIG using argon might work, if you can get the amperage down below 15A. You would also need timing circuitry, since you want to use it as a fine control (.1 sec resolution) spot welder.  This might be something to look into - http://www.pittnerovi.com/jiri/hobby/electronics/welder/



On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:29 AM, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
 
  
Great looking results!  Do you think a non-gas flux core welder would work?  Cheapo ones go for ~$125 and do not need a 220 volt supply.

On Mar 11, 2014, at 10:05 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:


  
>Final shaping/1st refacing to .090".  Evened up the rails some.  Going to lower the baffle still and do a final facing/tip work.  As to how much work it was - no more than doing the same repair with epoxy.
>
>
>Final Shape - Gets a Tooth Patch Still
>
>Side View 01
>
>Side View 02
>
>Rails 01
>
>Rails 02
>
>
>
>
>On Monday, March 10, 2014 11:24 AM, "gianniveloce@..." <gianniveloce@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>Hello experts, 
>So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
>For example, check this one
>http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
>Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
>Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>
>GV
>
>

Wow...really impressive!


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:05 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:

>
>
> Final shaping/1st refacing to .090".  Evened up the rails some.  Going to
> lower the baffle still and do a final facing/tip work.  As to how much work
> it was - no more than doing the same repair with epoxy.
>
> Final Shape - Gets a Tooth Patch Still<http://www.martinmods.com/15%20-%20final%20shaping%2001.jpg>
> Side View 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/16%20-%20final%20shaping%2002.jpg>
> Side View 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/17%20-%20final%20shaping%2003.jpg>
> Rails 01 <http://www.martinmods.com/18%20-%20final%20shaping%2004.jpg>
> Rails 02 <http://www.martinmods.com/19%20-%20final%20shaping%2005.jpg>
>
>
>   On Monday, March 10, 2014 11:24 AM, "gianniveloce@..." <
> gianniveloce@...> wrote:
>
>  Hello experts,
> So who could explain then why Dukoffs sell at so high prices on Ebay. ???
> For example, check this one
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-Miami-Dukoff-SOPRANO-D7-original-and-unused-in-box-cap-and-ligature-NR-/261414066288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd7e1870
> Then how could I estimate "the value" of my own MIAMI FLORIDA LARGE
> CHAMBER Tenor Dukoff MP and decide if a professional repair is worth of??
> Hope I do not drive this conversation off topic... (apologies and thanks)
>
> GV
>
>
>    
>



-- 
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com