Hi there,

I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
What is the general opinion about production method? 
I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.

On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.

Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?

Regards,

Gabriel Vatavu

Not a comment about production methods, but...
It doesn't make sense to put time, love and energy into a less noble material.






________________________________
 From: gabivatavu1976 <gabivatavu1976@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:00 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Injection moulding or CNC machined hard rubber blanks
 


  
Hi there,

I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
What is the general opinion about production method? 
I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.

On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.

Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?

Regards,

Gabriel Vatavu


 

MANY companies (including my own) use injection molding with great success…..you can quite literally make pretty much whatever you want at a modest cost per unit AFTER you pay the enormous costs of the molds…..we also use CNC made blanks….the trick to plastic or resin mouthpieces (once you have your design figured out) is the choice of the specific material…there are many, many options out there….






On Aug 8, 2013, at 6:13 AM, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:

> 
> Not a comment about production methods, but...
> It doesn't make sense to put time, love and energy into a less noble material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: gabivatavu1976 <gabivatavu1976@yahoo.com>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:00 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Injection moulding or CNC machined hard rubber blanks
> 
>  
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
> What is the general opinion about production method? 
> I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.
> 
> On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.
> 
> Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gabriel Vatavu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

NAW!

They need to be 3-D printed.

Interesting challenge to develop this business case.  Mold costs high for
molded pieces, no tooling for printed mpc.  CNC higher investment cost than
3-D, and both require computer drafting skills, CNC and 3-D both versatile
for evolutionary shape changes or model differences.

3-D probably the slowest production rate, ...

...

we tried 3D printing…..the material was FAR too soft



On Aug 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Bob Phillips <rwphillipsidaho@...> wrote:

> 
> NAW!
> 
> They need to be 3-D printed.
> 
> Interesting challenge to develop this business case.  Mold costs high for molded pieces, no tooling for printed mpc.  CNC higher investment cost than 3-D, and both require computer drafting skills, CNC and 3-D both versatile for evolutionary shape changes or model differences. 
> 
> 3-D probably the slowest production rate, ...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 

"Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?"

I suggest you hold off on manufacturing anything and spend some more time studying mouthpieces,and acoustics, until you can answer this yourself. 



________________________________
 From: gabivatavu1976 <gabivatavu1976@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 6:00 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Injection moulding or CNC machined hard rubber blanks
 


  
Hi there,

I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
What is the general opinion about production method? 
I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.

On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.

Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?

Regards,

Gabriel Vatavu


 

The May/June issue of Technology Review  has an article about G.E. using 
3-D printing to make jet engine parts.

  "A computer controlled laser shoots pin-point beams onto the bed to 
melt the metal alloy in the desired areas, creating 20-micrometer-thick 
layers one by one."

They're looking at titanium, aluminum and nickel-chromium alloys, and 
it's noted that a single part could be made of multiple alloys.

Barry


On 8/8/2013 10:29 AM, STEVE GOODSON wrote:
>
> we tried 3D printing�..the material was FAR too soft
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2013, at 9:03 AM, Bob Phillips <rwphillipsidaho@... 
> <mailto:rwphillipsidaho@...>> wrote:
>
>>
>> NAW!
>>
>> They need to be 3-D printed.
>>
>> Interesting challenge to develop this business case.  Mold costs high 
>> for molded pieces, no tooling for printed mpc.  CNC higher investment 
>> cost than 3-D, and both require computer drafting skills, CNC and 3-D 
>> both versatile for evolutionary shape changes or model differences.
>>
>> 3-D probably the slowest production rate, ...
>>
>> ...

I would not use a less noble material, it will still be good quality hard rubber, but pressure, injected.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>
> Not a comment about production methods, but...
> It doesn't make sense to put time, love and energy into a less noble material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: gabivatavu1976 <gabivatavu1976@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:00 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Injection moulding or CNC machined hard rubber blanks
>  
> 
> 
>   
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
> What is the general opinion about production method? 
> I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.
> 
> On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.
> 
> Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gabriel Vatavu
>

Hi Gabriel.

Clark Fobes has addressed some of these questions in a blog post a few
years ago.  You can access it here.

http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/

I'd love to see what you come up with if you get this off the ground.

Cheers,
Geoff Secomb.

Hi Jeoff,

Thank you very much for the link :-)

Cheers!

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Geoffrey Secomb <geoff@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gabriel.
> 
> Clark Fobes has addressed some of these questions in a blog post a few
> years ago.  You can access it here.
> 
> http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/
> 
> I'd love to see what you come up with if you get this off the ground.
> 
> Cheers,
> Geoff Secomb.
>

Great article Geoff !!
Thank you very much again !!

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Geoffrey Secomb <geoff@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gabriel.
> 
> Clark Fobes has addressed some of these questions in a blog post a few
> years ago.  You can access it here.
> 
> http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/
> 
> I'd love to see what you come up with if you get this off the ground.
> 
> Cheers,
> Geoff Secomb.
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>
> Not a comment about production methods, but...
> It doesn't make sense to put time, love and energy into a less noble material.
> 
>

Will -

What is a "less noble material" and why does it matter?  Many amazing sax players blew the hell out of plastic Brillhardt mouthpieces, which sold for a couple of bucks but bring very high prices on eBay.

Would a solid platinum sax mouthpiece play better than one made of brass?

I have a grenadilla wood clarinet mouthpiece that is amazing, but only because Kal Oppeman made it that way.  In its original condition, it was unplayable.

Ken Shaw

I knew a famous iconographer from Romania.  He was a genius.  He could get metal to push, pull, raise or lower at will under his chisel.  He told me, and it stuck, "why pour your heart and soul (not to mention hours at the bench) into a work of art that would be viewed  as worthless, because you chose the wrong material?".  Of course a vintage Brilhart (under the guidance of skilled hands) can sound like a million.
I am not familiar with Brilhart plastic pieces, but I'm sure they exist.  If I had an interest in perfecting plastic pieces, I would probably prefer a Brilhart to a Hite, if for no other reason than my heart and soul deserve it.
Your point of Brilharts on ebay is a perfect example of why Brilhart plastic is prefered over "Queen of Tiawan" plastic.  The noble provenance is worth the time and expenditure of heart, even if the plastic is identical. 



________________________________
 From: Kenneth <kkshaw43@...m>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:13 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Injection moulding or CNC machined hard rubber blanks
 


  
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Will Schmit <anchornm@...> wrote:
>
> Not a comment about production methods, but...
> It doesn't make sense to put time, love and energy into a less noble material.
> 
>

Will -

What is a "less noble material" and why does it matter?  Many amazing sax players blew the hell out of plastic Brillhardt mouthpieces, which sold for a couple of bucks but bring very high prices on eBay.

Would a solid platinum sax mouthpiece play better than one made of brass?

I have a grenadilla wood clarinet mouthpiece that is amazing, but only because Kal Oppeman made it that way.  In its original condition, it was unplayable.

Ken Shaw


 

Hi Gabriel --
Depends on what skills you have.  If you're a beginner at both casting and machining, and you're set on using hard rubber, the quickest (and probably cheapest) way forward is to hire somebody to do the CAD drawing, use 3d printing to prototype, then find a machine shop to do your production.  machining is only more expensive than molding for pretty large numbers.  Most of the small shops that use HR that (e.g. myself, Navarro, Klum) machine instead of molding, even Rico is machining their new clarinet pieces now.  I suspect the only places still using molds have been doing so since before CNC machining was developed to the state it is now.  You can have things made better and cheaper than you could 20 or 30 years ago.
hth
Morgan


 
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm thinking about venturing into producing my own blanks.
> What is the general opinion about production method? 
> I know injection moulding would cost more to start off, but after that, the cost of the blanks will be fairly cheap.
> 
> On the other hand CNC will cost a bit less to get the process started but the cost per blank will be higher.I know that this method will allow for small design changes along the way, if desired; as where with the injection moulding that might be a bit harder to do, once you have the mould made.
> 
> Will any of the methods favour better resonance, and would the difference be considerable?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gabriel Vatavu
>