I'm experimenting with a plastic alto mouthpiece, (that I didn't pay for and don't play, so don't worry anyone!)
It's rails were uneven, and it had gouges in the table, and the tip was deformed a bit as well.

Using 0000 steel wool I was able to get most of the scratches and deformities on the tip to blend in. I tried to take the same amount of material off the other side as well, to keep it somewhat symmetrical. Mostly a success, so far...

Next I wanted to take the gouges out of the table, and shorten the facing.
After all the sanding I have done, I got the gouges out, and the table looks good, but the facing didn't get shorter... I experimented with some different techniques but wasn't able to find one that worked for me yet.

I used 3M no-slip grip backing 600 on a piece of plexiglass.

I think my unpracticed technique (and I hope the wrong materials had something to do with it too) made the table very slightly convex. I can't see or feel it the convexity by laying a straight edge on the table, but I'm not getting a clear reading with the .0015 anymore. Depending on where I hold (put pressure on) the glass gauge I get different readings. Holding close to the window-u I get a somewhat consistent reading on the short side. But holding further back the feeler drops way down, sometimes even past the window-u. OOPS!

The no-slip grip didn't prevent the edges of the paper from coming up off the plexiglass at times, so I imagine this is part of the problem.

Any technique suggestions to prevent this in the future?
I started by pulling the mouthpiece backwards across the paper, but I think I got slightly better results by pushing it, with the tip leading the way. I was trying to bias toward the butt of the mouthpiece, but I didn't want to do that too much since I wanted to shorten the facing too. Maybe in experimenting with the right bias I made the concavity?

Any general technique suggestions to correct for convex tables would help (now that I CREATED this problem I should figure out how to fix it).

I'm also going to get a better work surface, so any suggestions, or pros and cons for 3/8" glass and granite would be great.

I imagine using mylar backed sheets on granite is not an option, but would like to hear if anyone has tried it with success or failure.

I have watched the Mojo video, so I'm considering going his route, but would like to know the other side of the coin as well since portability is not an issue for me.

Thanks!

Mike, 
Your analysis is correct -- you made the table convexed.  Your tools aren't the problem, though, your technique is.  You have to develop a proper feel for how much pressure to put where on the mouthpiece as you lap it in order to make it flat instead of convexed.  You may have to ruin a few, I know I did.  Also want to think about how you tell if it's flat.  Best way IME is to blue it.

A note about equipment -- it's tempting to get everything just right but you don't need to overengineer this particular area.  I use a £10 granite cutting board and just lay wet/dry sandpaper on top of it. 
hth
Morgan 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike@...> wrote:
>
> I'm experimenting with a plastic alto mouthpiece, (that I didn't pay for and don't play, so don't worry anyone!)
> It's rails were uneven, and it had gouges in the table, and the tip was deformed a bit as well.
> 
> Using 0000 steel wool I was able to get most of the scratches and deformities on the tip to blend in. I tried to take the same amount of material off the other side as well, to keep it somewhat symmetrical. Mostly a success, so far...
> 
> Next I wanted to take the gouges out of the table, and shorten the facing.
> After all the sanding I have done, I got the gouges out, and the table looks good, but the facing didn't get shorter... I experimented with some different techniques but wasn't able to find one that worked for me yet.
> 
> I used 3M no-slip grip backing 600 on a piece of plexiglass.
> 
> I think my unpracticed technique (and I hope the wrong materials had something to do with it too) made the table very slightly convex. I can't see or feel it the convexity by laying a straight edge on the table, but I'm not getting a clear reading with the .0015 anymore. Depending on where I hold (put pressure on) the glass gauge I get different readings. Holding close to the window-u I get a somewhat consistent reading on the short side. But holding further back the feeler drops way down, sometimes even past the window-u. OOPS!
> 
> The no-slip grip didn't prevent the edges of the paper from coming up off the plexiglass at times, so I imagine this is part of the problem.
> 
> Any technique suggestions to prevent this in the future?
> I started by pulling the mouthpiece backwards across the paper, but I think I got slightly better results by pushing it, with the tip leading the way. I was trying to bias toward the butt of the mouthpiece, but I didn't want to do that too much since I wanted to shorten the facing too. Maybe in experimenting with the right bias I made the concavity?
> 
> Any general technique suggestions to correct for convex tables would help (now that I CREATED this problem I should figure out how to fix it).
> 
> I'm also going to get a better work surface, so any suggestions, or pros and cons for 3/8" glass and granite would be great.
> 
> I imagine using mylar backed sheets on granite is not an option, but would like to hear if anyone has tried it with success or failure.
> 
> I have watched the Mojo video, so I'm considering going his route, but would like to know the other side of the coin as well since portability is not an issue for me.
> 
> Thanks!
>

Thanks, Morgan!
"Blue" it? please explain!

So you believe I should be able to learn this technique even on plexiglass?

Also, based on what you said, I guess I need to try to be as consistent as possible with whatever pressure/bias I am using, make a few swipes and then check the results?

Constant change of this bias will cause the convexity, right?

Cheers!

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
> Mike, 
> Your analysis is correct -- you made the table convexed.  Your tools aren't the problem, though, your technique is.  You have to develop a proper feel for how much pressure to put where on the mouthpiece as you lap it in order to make it flat instead of convexed.  You may have to ruin a few, I know I did.  Also want to think about how you tell if it's flat.  Best way IME is to blue it.
> 
> A note about equipment -- it's tempting to get everything just right but you don't need to overengineer this particular area.  I use a £10 granite cutting board and just lay wet/dry sandpaper on top of it. 
> hth
> Morgan 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm experimenting with a plastic alto mouthpiece, (that I didn't pay for and don't play, so don't worry anyone!)
> > It's rails were uneven, and it had gouges in the table, and the tip was deformed a bit as well.
> > 
> > Using 0000 steel wool I was able to get most of the scratches and deformities on the tip to blend in. I tried to take the same amount of material off the other side as well, to keep it somewhat symmetrical. Mostly a success, so far...
> > 
> > Next I wanted to take the gouges out of the table, and shorten the facing.
> > After all the sanding I have done, I got the gouges out, and the table looks good, but the facing didn't get shorter... I experimented with some different techniques but wasn't able to find one that worked for me yet.
> > 
> > I used 3M no-slip grip backing 600 on a piece of plexiglass.
> > 
> > I think my unpracticed technique (and I hope the wrong materials had something to do with it too) made the table very slightly convex. I can't see or feel it the convexity by laying a straight edge on the table, but I'm not getting a clear reading with the .0015 anymore. Depending on where I hold (put pressure on) the glass gauge I get different readings. Holding close to the window-u I get a somewhat consistent reading on the short side. But holding further back the feeler drops way down, sometimes even past the window-u. OOPS!
> > 
> > The no-slip grip didn't prevent the edges of the paper from coming up off the plexiglass at times, so I imagine this is part of the problem.
> > 
> > Any technique suggestions to prevent this in the future?
> > I started by pulling the mouthpiece backwards across the paper, but I think I got slightly better results by pushing it, with the tip leading the way. I was trying to bias toward the butt of the mouthpiece, but I didn't want to do that too much since I wanted to shorten the facing too. Maybe in experimenting with the right bias I made the concavity?
> > 
> > Any general technique suggestions to correct for convex tables would help (now that I CREATED this problem I should figure out how to fix it).
> > 
> > I'm also going to get a better work surface, so any suggestions, or pros and cons for 3/8" glass and granite would be great.
> > 
> > I imagine using mylar backed sheets on granite is not an option, but would like to hear if anyone has tried it with success or failure.
> > 
> > I have watched the Mojo video, so I'm considering going his route, but would like to know the other side of the coin as well since portability is not an issue for me.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> >
>

Convexity -- Not just variable pressure, pressure in the wrong spot will do it.

I wouldn't go so far as trusting plexiglass.  Not flat enough, not hard enough.

Blueing it -- micrometer blue on a surface plate.  touch the mouhtpiece to it.  If it's flat the whole table will come up blue.  For this you DO need a proper surfact plate.  Offcuts of glass or granite aren't sufficiently flat for inspection.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Morgan!
> "Blue" it? please explain!
> 
> So you believe I should be able to learn this technique even on plexiglass?
> 
> Also, based on what you said, I guess I need to try to be as consistent as possible with whatever pressure/bias I am using, make a few swipes and then check the results?
> 
> Constant change of this bias will cause the convexity, right?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@> wrote:
> >
> > Mike, 
> > Your analysis is correct -- you made the table convexed.  Your tools aren't the problem, though, your technique is.  You have to develop a proper feel for how much pressure to put where on the mouthpiece as you lap it in order to make it flat instead of convexed.  You may have to ruin a few, I know I did.  Also want to think about how you tell if it's flat.  Best way IME is to blue it.
> > 
> > A note about equipment -- it's tempting to get everything just right but you don't need to overengineer this particular area.  I use a £10 granite cutting board and just lay wet/dry sandpaper on top of it. 
> > hth
> > Morgan 
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm experimenting with a plastic alto mouthpiece, (that I didn't pay for and don't play, so don't worry anyone!)
> > > It's rails were uneven, and it had gouges in the table, and the tip was deformed a bit as well.
> > > 
> > > Using 0000 steel wool I was able to get most of the scratches and deformities on the tip to blend in. I tried to take the same amount of material off the other side as well, to keep it somewhat symmetrical. Mostly a success, so far...
> > > 
> > > Next I wanted to take the gouges out of the table, and shorten the facing.
> > > After all the sanding I have done, I got the gouges out, and the table looks good, but the facing didn't get shorter... I experimented with some different techniques but wasn't able to find one that worked for me yet.
> > > 
> > > I used 3M no-slip grip backing 600 on a piece of plexiglass.
> > > 
> > > I think my unpracticed technique (and I hope the wrong materials had something to do with it too) made the table very slightly convex. I can't see or feel it the convexity by laying a straight edge on the table, but I'm not getting a clear reading with the .0015 anymore. Depending on where I hold (put pressure on) the glass gauge I get different readings. Holding close to the window-u I get a somewhat consistent reading on the short side. But holding further back the feeler drops way down, sometimes even past the window-u. OOPS!
> > > 
> > > The no-slip grip didn't prevent the edges of the paper from coming up off the plexiglass at times, so I imagine this is part of the problem.
> > > 
> > > Any technique suggestions to prevent this in the future?
> > > I started by pulling the mouthpiece backwards across the paper, but I think I got slightly better results by pushing it, with the tip leading the way. I was trying to bias toward the butt of the mouthpiece, but I didn't want to do that too much since I wanted to shorten the facing too. Maybe in experimenting with the right bias I made the concavity?
> > > 
> > > Any general technique suggestions to correct for convex tables would help (now that I CREATED this problem I should figure out how to fix it).
> > > 
> > > I'm also going to get a better work surface, so any suggestions, or pros and cons for 3/8" glass and granite would be great.
> > > 
> > > I imagine using mylar backed sheets on granite is not an option, but would like to hear if anyone has tried it with success or failure.
> > > 
> > > I have watched the Mojo video, so I'm considering going his route, but would like to know the other side of the coin as well since portability is not an issue for me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> >
>

Are reeds that “stick” to the table after playing and removing the ligature “sticky” because of concavity or because the table is flat?  or both?  

From: Morgan 
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:51 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: First refacing. Fixing a concave table.

  
Convexity -- Not just variable pressure, pressure in the wrong spot will do it.

I wouldn't go so far as trusting plexiglass. Not flat enough, not hard enough.

Blueing it -- micrometer blue on a surface plate. touch the mouhtpiece to it. If it's flat the whole table will come up blue. For this you DO need a proper surfact plate. Offcuts of glass or granite aren't sufficiently flat for inspection.

--- In mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:
>
> Thanks, Morgan!
> "Blue" it? please explain!
> 
> So you believe I should be able to learn this technique even on plexiglass?
> 
> Also, based on what you said, I guess I need to try to be as consistent as possible with whatever pressure/bias I am using, make a few swipes and then check the results?
> 
> Constant change of this bias will cause the convexity, right?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> --- In mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" wrote:
> >
> > Mike, 
> > Your analysis is correct -- you made the table convexed. Your tools aren't the problem, though, your technique is. You have to develop a proper feel for how much pressure to put where on the mouthpiece as you lap it in order to make it flat instead of convexed. You may have to ruin a few, I know I did. Also want to think about how you tell if it's flat. Best way IME is to blue it.
> > 
> > A note about equipment -- it's tempting to get everything just right but you don't need to overengineer this particular area. I use a £10 granite cutting board and just lay wet/dry sandpaper on top of it. 
> > hth
> > Morgan 
> > 
> > --- In mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm experimenting with a plastic alto mouthpiece, (that I didn't pay for and don't play, so don't worry anyone!)
> > > It's rails were uneven, and it had gouges in the table, and the tip was deformed a bit as well.
> > > 
> > > Using 0000 steel wool I was able to get most of the scratches and deformities on the tip to blend in. I tried to take the same amount of material off the other side as well, to keep it somewhat symmetrical. Mostly a success, so far...
> > > 
> > > Next I wanted to take the gouges out of the table, and shorten the facing.
> > > After all the sanding I have done, I got the gouges out, and the table looks good, but the facing didn't get shorter... I experimented with some different techniques but wasn't able to find one that worked for me yet.
> > > 
> > > I used 3M no-slip grip backing 600 on a piece of plexiglass.
> > > 
> > > I think my unpracticed technique (and I hope the wrong materials had something to do with it too) made the table very slightly convex. I can't see or feel it the convexity by laying a straight edge on the table, but I'm not getting a clear reading with the .0015 anymore. Depending on where I hold (put pressure on) the glass gauge I get different readings. Holding close to the window-u I get a somewhat consistent reading on the short side. But holding further back the feeler drops way down, sometimes even past the window-u. OOPS!
> > > 
> > > The no-slip grip didn't prevent the edges of the paper from coming up off the plexiglass at times, so I imagine this is part of the problem.
> > > 
> > > Any technique suggestions to prevent this in the future?
> > > I started by pulling the mouthpiece backwards across the paper, but I think I got slightly better results by pushing it, with the tip leading the way. I was trying to bias toward the butt of the mouthpiece, but I didn't want to do that too much since I wanted to shorten the facing too. Maybe in experimenting with the right bias I made the concavity?
> > > 
> > > Any general technique suggestions to correct for convex tables would help (now that I CREATED this problem I should figure out how to fix it).
> > > 
> > > I'm also going to get a better work surface, so any suggestions, or pros and cons for 3/8" glass and granite would be great.
> > > 
> > > I imagine using mylar backed sheets on granite is not an option, but would like to hear if anyone has tried it with success or failure.
> > > 
> > > I have watched the Mojo video, so I'm considering going his route, but would like to know the other side of the coin as well since portability is not an issue for me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> >
>