I will try to make this brief and descriptive.  I will leave out the laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking them.

I have an old vintage brass piece.  It currently measures .090.  It is a hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip.  Poor response and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about altissimo.

I dont know if there is a curve that will address this.  Id really like to keep the tip close to where it is.  Unfortunately, I dont have a file or a sheet of sandpaper that will add brass to extremely low points.

Im not a wizard of numbers.  I tend to spend most my time facing my own pieces with curves I know and like.  Perhaps some of you may take a stab at this:

.0015 - 48  (a bit shorter would be good)

.010  - 36

.016  - 32

.024  - 28

.035  - 22

.050  - 16

.063  - 11

.078  - 5

Note:  There is no material to speak of left in the thickness of the tip for opening more.  Im somewhat boxed in.  There is a thick tip rail that can be shaved to shorten the piece.  It was never finished into baffle.  Frankly I would like a little more baffle.

Thanks

You can try to "pull" the curve inside the existing curve by lengthening
the facing or opening the tip.  Maybe flattening the table at a slight
angle - to close up the tip and shorten the facing - will give you some
room to then lengthen/open.  Sounds like you have nothing to lose - maybe
you can come up with a curve that makes it playable.  Can it be opened to
.095"?  This might work:

 .0015 48.0  .010   37.4  .016   32.8  .024   27.9  .035   22.3  .050
 16.0  .063
  11.3  .078   6.5  .095   1.5
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:21 PM, sigmund451 <sigmund451@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I will try to make this brief and descriptive. I will leave out the
> laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking
> them.
>
> I have an old vintage brass piece. It currently measures .090. It is a
> hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip. Poor response
> and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about
> altissimo.
>
> I dont know if there is a curve that will address this. Id really like to
> keep the tip close to where it is. Unfortunately, I dont have a file or a
> sheet of sandpaper that will add brass to extremely low points.
>
> Im not a wizard of numbers. I tend to spend most my time facing my own
> pieces with curves I know and like. Perhaps some of you may take a stab at
> this:
>
> .0015 - 48 (a bit shorter would be good)
>
> .010 - 36
>
> .016 - 32
>
> .024 - 28
>
> .035 - 22
>
> .050 - 16
>
> .063 - 11
>
> .078 - 5
>
> Note: There is no material to speak of left in the thickness of the tip
> for opening more. Im somewhat boxed in. There is a thick tip rail that can
> be shaved to shorten the piece. It was never finished into baffle. Frankly
> I would like a little more baffle.
>
> Thanks
>
>  
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...> wrote:
>
> I will try to make this brief and descriptive.  I will leave out the laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking them.
> 
> I have an old vintage brass piece.  It currently measures .090.  It is a hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip.  Poor response and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about altissimo.
> 

There are some mouthpieces that just can not be fixed.  I had a Link tenor presented to me that was such a piece.  Apparently the tip opening was too much for the player, and someone MILLED the table until the tip opening was about .060".  No attempt to make a nice curve, there was just a kink where the milling stopped and the old curve began.  There was not enough thickness at the tip to do anything with it.  

I returned it to the owner with the suggestion of using it for a fishing weight or any other use he could find, but it could not be made into a playable mouthpiece.

Sometimes it happens this way and despite your skill, despite how much you want to, it just can't be fixed.

Paul

Years back I was given a no-name brass alto m/p in a similar condition. The
table had been milled away until there was pretty well no tip opening and
nothing to work with. As a technical exercise I decided to make it play. I
milled the table completely flat up to the edge of the tip rail. I then made
up a piece of eighth brass plate the shape of the table and rails and hard
soldered it onto the table. I then machined that back to the profile I
wanted, with a medium tip opening and a nice curve. It would never have won
a beauty contest but with a bit of fine-tuning it played OK. I didn't play
much sax at the time, so I passed it on to a friend who did. He liked it, so
it's probably still out there somewhere. I was in the Air Force at the time,
so I had access to their machine shop facilities. I wouldn't ever try it as
a commercial proposition, it took far too long to ever make money out of it,
but as an exercise it was challenging and fun.

Tony F.

 

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tenorman1952
Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 12:37 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Will this mouthpiece remain a doorstop?

 

  



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...>
wrote:
>
> I will try to make this brief and descriptive. I will leave out the
laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking
them.
> 
> I have an old vintage brass piece. It currently measures .090. It is a
hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip. Poor response
and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about
altissimo.
> 

There are some mouthpieces that just can not be fixed. I had a Link tenor
presented to me that was such a piece. Apparently the tip opening was too
much for the player, and someone MILLED the table until the tip opening was
about .060". No attempt to make a nice curve, there was just a kink where
the milling stopped and the old curve began. There was not enough thickness
at the tip to do anything with it. 

I returned it to the owner with the suggestion of using it for a fishing
weight or any other use he could find, but it could not be made into a
playable mouthpiece.

Sometimes it happens this way and despite your skill, despite how much you
want to, it just can't be fixed.

Paul

I just uploaded a picture of what I do with junker mouthpieces.  Cut the
table side off and epoxy a clothespin into it.  Great for outdoor gigs!

Dan T

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Tony Fairbridge
<tfairbri@....au>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Years back I was given a no-name brass alto m/p in a similar condition.
> The table had been milled away until there was pretty well no tip opening
> and nothing to work with. As a technical exercise I decided to make it
> play. I milled the table completely flat up to the edge of the tip rail. I
> then made up a piece of eighth brass plate the shape of the table and rails
> and hard soldered it onto the table. I then machined that back to the
> profile I wanted, with a medium tip opening and a nice curve. It would
> never have won a beauty contest but with a bit of fine-tuning it played OK.
> I didn’t play much sax at the time, so I passed it on to a friend who did.
> He liked it, so it’s probably still out there somewhere. I was in the Air
> Force at the time, so I had access to their machine shop facilities. I
> wouldn’t ever try it as a commercial proposition, it took far too long to
> ever make money out of it, but as an exercise it was challenging and fun.*
> ***
>
> Tony F.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *tenorman1952
> *Sent:* Friday, 18 May 2012 12:37 AM
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Re: Will this mouthpiece remain a doorstop?***
> *
>
> ** **
>
>   ****
>
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I will try to make this brief and descriptive. I will leave out the
> laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking
> them.
> >
> > I have an old vintage brass piece. It currently measures .090. It is a
> hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip. Poor response
> and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about
> altissimo.
> >
>
> There are some mouthpieces that just can not be fixed. I had a Link tenor
> presented to me that was such a piece. Apparently the tip opening was too
> much for the player, and someone MILLED the table until the tip opening was
> about .060". No attempt to make a nice curve, there was just a kink where
> the milling stopped and the old curve began. There was not enough thickness
> at the tip to do anything with it.
>
> I returned it to the owner with the suggestion of using it for a fishing
> weight or any other use he could find, but it could not be made into a
> playable mouthpiece.
>
> Sometimes it happens this way and despite your skill, despite how much you
> want to, it just can't be fixed.
>
> Paul****
>
>  
>

Some mouthpiecs should have a DNR order with them.

I still usually try to do something for them.  You can try trimming back the tip a lot to recover some thickness to work with. But the bite plate pocket or slot can limit what you can do.  I have trimmed hacked Dukoffs 1/4" to make players out of them.  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...> wrote:
>
> I will try to make this brief and descriptive.  I will leave out the laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking them.
> 
> I have an old vintage brass piece.  It currently measures .090.  It is a hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip.  Poor response and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about altissimo.
> 
> I dont know if there is a curve that will address this.  Id really like to keep the tip close to where it is.  Unfortunately, I dont have a file or a sheet of sandpaper that will add brass to extremely low points.
> 
> Im not a wizard of numbers.  I tend to spend most my time facing my own pieces with curves I know and like.  Perhaps some of you may take a stab at this:
> 
> .0015 - 48  (a bit shorter would be good)
> 
> .010  - 36
> 
> .016  - 32
> 
> .024  - 28
> 
> .035  - 22
> 
> .050  - 16
> 
> .063  - 11
> 
> .078  - 5
> 
> Note:  There is no material to speak of left in the thickness of the tip for opening more.  Im somewhat boxed in.  There is a thick tip rail that can be shaved to shorten the piece.  It was never finished into baffle.  Frankly I would like a little more baffle.
> 
> Thanks
>

If you can shorten the piece at the tip by 1.5mm you can probably put the right curve on it.  Don't know if that leaves you enough material for the right baffle though.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...> wrote:
>
> I will try to make this brief and descriptive.  I will leave out the laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking them.
> 
> I have an old vintage brass piece.  It currently measures .090.  It is a hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip.  Poor response and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about altissimo.
> 
> I dont know if there is a curve that will address this.  Id really like to keep the tip close to where it is.  Unfortunately, I dont have a file or a sheet of sandpaper that will add brass to extremely low points.
> 
> Im not a wizard of numbers.  I tend to spend most my time facing my own pieces with curves I know and like.  Perhaps some of you may take a stab at this:
> 
> .0015 - 48  (a bit shorter would be good)
> 
> .010  - 36
> 
> .016  - 32
> 
> .024  - 28
> 
> .035  - 22
> 
> .050  - 16
> 
> .063  - 11
> 
> .078  - 5
> 
> Note:  There is no material to speak of left in the thickness of the tip for opening more.  Im somewhat boxed in.  There is a thick tip rail that can be shaved to shorten the piece.  It was never finished into baffle.  Frankly I would like a little more baffle.
> 
> Thanks
>

Shortening the piece is about the best plan I can come up with too.  I can take off more than 1.5 mm and still have a tip rail.  If I reface it after that I will have a little to add to the piece.  I will also be making the facing shorter which will give a little more punch.  While Id really like more baffle it does have a nice sound.  The bite plate is not in the way of shortening.

Sad thing is that this was a good vintage piece until Egor the butcher got his hands on it.  I d like it to play its best.

I will do some more pondering.  Im picking it up in a trade but even so I dont want to get burned.

Thanks Gents.  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
> If you can shorten the piece at the tip by 1.5mm you can probably put the right curve on it.  Don't know if that leaves you enough material for the right baffle though.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@> wrote:
> >
> > I will try to make this brief and descriptive.  I will leave out the laments of players trying to improve mouthpieces and subsequently wrecking them.
> > 
> > I have an old vintage brass piece.  It currently measures .090.  It is a hack job and the facing is way to flat as it nears the tip.  Poor response and the palm keys, of course, take work to voice...dont even think about altissimo.
> > 
> > I dont know if there is a curve that will address this.  Id really like to keep the tip close to where it is.  Unfortunately, I dont have a file or a sheet of sandpaper that will add brass to extremely low points.
> > 
> > Im not a wizard of numbers.  I tend to spend most my time facing my own pieces with curves I know and like.  Perhaps some of you may take a stab at this:
> > 
> > .0015 - 48  (a bit shorter would be good)
> > 
> > .010  - 36
> > 
> > .016  - 32
> > 
> > .024  - 28
> > 
> > .035  - 22
> > 
> > .050  - 16
> > 
> > .063  - 11
> > 
> > .078  - 5
> > 
> > Note:  There is no material to speak of left in the thickness of the tip for opening more.  Im somewhat boxed in.  There is a thick tip rail that can be shaved to shorten the piece.  It was never finished into baffle.  Frankly I would like a little more baffle.
> > 
> > Thanks
> >
>

I reckon that if you shaved the tip a bit you could play that! J

 

Tony F.

 

  

I just uploaded a picture of what I do with junker mouthpieces.  Cut the
table side off and epoxy a clothespin into it.  Great for outdoor gigs!


Dan T