Hello,

I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.

Thanks,
Early M 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're not very experienced at
working on mouthpieces.  And you have a quality, maybe high-dollar piece
you're considering hitting with a file.  Don't do it.  Either experiment on
lesser, (much) cheaper pieces for a long time, or send this one to an
experienced mouthpiece tech.  If you like the mouthpiece, but it's "not
quite right", I'd recommend the latter.

That being said...  Measuring the facing curve and checking if the table is
flat would be the place to start.  Maybe the reed isn't sealing, maybe the
rails are uneven, etc.

Dan T

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:03 PM, prosaxmusic
<earlymccalister@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal
> Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier
> to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am
> curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.
>
> Thanks,
> Early M
>
>  
>

Dan I totally agree. I am not very experienced at working on mouthpieces and afraid to mess it up. I have gotten lucky and made great improvements to a Dukoff. But, this Sugal very different.(material, cost,eg...) I will consider the table flatness, and leave the rails alone for now. What do you mean by facing curve? Do you mean the actual length or do both sides match?

Thanks for your input,
Early 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, dan torosian <dantorosian@...> wrote:
>
> Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're not very experienced at
> working on mouthpieces.  And you have a quality, maybe high-dollar piece
> you're considering hitting with a file.  Don't do it.  Either experiment on
> lesser, (much) cheaper pieces for a long time, or send this one to an
> experienced mouthpiece tech.  If you like the mouthpiece, but it's "not
> quite right", I'd recommend the latter.
> 
> That being said...  Measuring the facing curve and checking if the table is
> flat would be the place to start.  Maybe the reed isn't sealing, maybe the
> rails are uneven, etc.
> 
> Dan T
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:03 PM, prosaxmusic
> <earlymccalister@...>wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal
> > Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier
> > to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am
> > curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Early M
> >
> >  
> >
>

1. Try some different makes of reeds.
2. Intonation and control are helped by getting your basic embouchure
pressure and airflow aligned by doing mouthpiece exercises. If you haven't
done these, you're missing out on something very basic and necessary.
3. If the mpc is hard to control, a slightly softer reed usually blows a
little easier. Although this sometimes is not an adequate solution for a
mouthpiece that is faced too wide for the individual player. What facing is
the piece, and for what horn? Did you move up to a radically wider facing
from your previous mouthpiece?
4. I agree w. Dan Torosian that if you're new at this, you could easily to
spoil an expensive mouthpiece by experimenting on it. Moreover, based on my
own experience with adding and modifying baffles, I don't think filing down
the back of a baffle slightly will have much effect on control or
intonation, in any case.

Barry Levine

>  
> Hello,
> 
> I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal Kirk
> Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier to
> control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am curious
> what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.
> 
> Thanks,
> Early M 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Hear, hear, Barry.  Early- Don't do anything irreversible until you've
figured out what the actual problem might be.  Tables that aren't flat and
don't let the reed seal make us squeeze the reed too much and mess up the
intonation.  Same with uneven rails.  It could be a lot of other things,
but adjusting the back end of the baffle isn't a "top-ten" candidate.

Did it used to be in tune, and now isn't?  Does it play in tune on some
other horns?  What were you playing on before?  Did you have intonation
problems on other mouthpieces with the same horn?  Etc, etc...  These are
all things to take into account.

The facing curve is the actual shape of the curve from the flat part of the
mouthpiece table to the tip.  Search all the old messages on this newsgroup
for "facing curve" maybe - that should get you started.

DT

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Barry Levine <barrylevine@norwoodlight.com
> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>    1. Try some different makes of reeds.
>    2. Intonation and control are helped by getting your basic embouchure
>    pressure and airflow aligned by doing mouthpiece exercises. If you haven't
>    done these, you're missing out on something very basic and necessary.
>    3. If the mpc is hard to control, a slightly softer reed usually blows
>    a little easier. Although this sometimes is not an adequate solution for a
>    mouthpiece that is faced too wide for the individual player. What facing is
>    the piece, and for what horn? Did you move up to a radically wider facing
>    from your previous mouthpiece?
>    4. I agree w. Dan Torosian that if you're new at this, you could
>    easily to spoil an expensive mouthpiece by experimenting on it. Moreover,
>    based on my own experience with adding and modifying baffles, I don't think
>    filing down the back of a baffle slightly will have much effect on control
>    or intonation, in any case.
>
>
> Barry Levine
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal
> Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier
> to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am
> curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.
>
> Thanks,
> Early M
>
>
>
>
>   
>

I'm not sure why that would improve intonation or make it easier to control.

--- On Tue, 2012/1/17, prosaxmusic <earlymccalister@...> wrote:















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Hello,



I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.



Thanks,

Early M 





    
     

    
    


 



  

Hey Early,

Is this you on the Sugal, in the "I Wanna Be....."?

http://www.myspace.com/earlymccalister

If so, what tip opening?  What reed?  What horn?  Just for reference.

Sounds really nice, and I hear what you're talking about.  

MM.



--- On Tue, 1/17/12, prosaxmusic <earlymccalister@...> wrote:

From: prosaxmusic <earlymccalister@netscape.net>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Fixes for intonation in mouthpiece?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 3:03 AM








 



  


    
      
      
      Hello,



I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.



Thanks,

Early M 





    
     

    
    






  

> I am considering filing down the back of the baffle slightly on my Sugal Kirk Whalum mouthpiece to improve the intonation.(at least make it easier to control). I will probably first try a slightly stiffer reed. But, I am curious what other simple or safe-to-try options there are.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Early M


Here is a good non-destructive experiment for you.  In the area you proposed to remove material, instead add some poster putty.  See if that makes the intonation tendencies worse.  If so, then perhaps removing some material there could help.  If not, well, now you know.

Paul C.

Early,

That's a pretty pricey mouthpiece @ $550, so I'd hesitate altering it permanently on a whim.  

From close-up pictures I have examined I notice an excessive amount of "flash" (excess deformed molten material) that was left untrimmed, between the bottom end of the chamber drop-off and the beginning of the throat, forming an irregularly shaped, sharp edge that protrudes into the bore on both sides.  This sort of thing can cause enough turbulence to cause pitch and stability issues.  I can say a lot more in detail with a confirmation on the recording.