Mouthpiece Work / Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
FROM: arnoldstang3 (John)
SUBJECT: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber with rounded sidewalls. The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at some point in their careers. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > ** > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > -- Matt www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
I would say because Paul Desmond used a Gregory. What famous players use(d) usually influences players a lot. Except when it comes to Links on alto for some reason. ________________________________ From: John <john_w_price33@...> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:56 PM Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
FROM: frymorgan (Morgan)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
I haven't seen a ton of Gregorys, but what I have seen were all small round chamber, whereas the Links are large chambered pieces. Also I think a steeper chamber angle and less baffle. --- In MouthpieceWork@...m, "John" <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? >
FROM: arnoldstang3 (John)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > with rounded sidewalls. > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > some point in their careers. > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > -- > Matt > www.matthewvossjazz.com >
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces? On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > ** > > > Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice > versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> > wrote: > > > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > > with rounded sidewalls. > > > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, > Jackie > > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > > some point in their careers. > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a > squashed > > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for > the > > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt > > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > > -- Matt www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
>
> Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> with rounded sidewalls.
>
> The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie
> McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> some point in their careers.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed
> > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the
> > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote: > ** > > > Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the > proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not > expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer > directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to > the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller > chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go. > > --- On *Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM > > > > > I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces? > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...<http://mc/compose?to=john_w_price33@...> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice > versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, > Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > > > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > > with rounded sidewalls. > > > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, > Jackie > > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > > some point in their careers. > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a > squashed > > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for > the > > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt > > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > > > > -- > Matt > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > -- Matt www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the chambers need to be smaller to compensate.
I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently.
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM
Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
>
> Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> with rounded sidewalls.
>
> The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie
> McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> some point in their careers.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed
> > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the
> > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
I specifically said at some point in their careers. Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that time. I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles that are connected to that word. Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday. On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote: > ** > > > Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, > the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the > smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the > chambers need to be smaller to compensate. > > I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR > Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee > Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their > music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper > register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a > mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat > better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal > center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound > correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some > kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently. > > > --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM > > > > > Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, > Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren > Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred. > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the > proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not > expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer > directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to > the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller > chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go. > > --- On *Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...m> > >* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@...m<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM > > > > > I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces? > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...<http://mc/compose?to=john_w_price33@...> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice > versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, > Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > > > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > > with rounded sidewalls. > > > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, > Jackie > > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > > some point in their careers. > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a > squashed > > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for > the > > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt > > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > > > > -- > Matt > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > > > -- > Matt > www.matthewvossjazz.com > > > > -- Matt www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Apologies. I responded to your most recent post in which you did not make that qualification,
"Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny
Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith,
Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred."
Jackie McLean: Sure, some players can play out of tune regardless of what they play on. That in no way obscures the distinctive intonation/tonal, aural phenomena of a large chamber, horn/player acoustical mismatch, which is as obvious as someone playing an ascending diminished scale on a 7 chord, once you are familiar with it (which mouthpiece techs/gurus/professionals/affictianados should aspire to be). I try not to confuse the player's artistry and energy with the acoustical efficiency or inefficiency of his equipment. Jackie could play just as fat, and even dirtier and more "manly" on the same mouthpiece if it was acoustically matched to his horn better, as it and he horn would be more responsive to his wishes, in every way, just as he would sound better on his horn if it didn't have pad leaks (not that it does) vs. the same horn with leaking palm key pads. One just works acoustically better than the other.
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM
I specifically said at some point in their careers.
Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that time.
I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles that are connected to that word.
Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the chambers need to be smaller to compensate.
I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently.
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM
Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
>
> Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> with rounded sidewalls.
>
> The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie
> McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> some point in their careers.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed
> > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the
> > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Is the Nick Biello clip on your site an example of your new, nice sounding, composite, large chambered, custom alto piece?
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM
I specifically said at some point in their careers.
Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that time.
I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles that are connected to that word.
Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the chambers need to be smaller to compensate.
I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently.
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM
Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
>
> Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> with rounded sidewalls.
>
> The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie
> McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> some point in their careers.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed
> > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the
> > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
No apologies necessary. I'm not sure I follow your acoustical mismatch
argument to its reasonable end. Aside from the intonation challenges
already discussed, what exactly are the "aural phenomena" that is so
obvious?
I agree that players should not have to fight their equipment, although I
think Jackie McLean is a poor example to illustrate your point; I've never
met anyone more capable of translating and executing their ideas.
Legendary altoists like Jackie and Lee ("textbook intonation issues"
notwithstanding) aside, I honesty think that large chamber alto pieces
manifest tonal characteristics that are not present with medium and smaller
chamber pieces, despite the implicit challenges.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:27 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Apologies. I responded to your most recent post in which you did not make
> that qualification,
>
> "Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt,
> Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren
> Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred."
>
> Jackie McLean: Sure, some players can play out of tune regardless of what
> they play on. That in no way obscures the distinctive intonation/tonal,
> aural phenomena of a large chamber, horn/player acoustical mismatch, which
> is as obvious as someone playing an ascending diminished scale on a 7
> chord, once you are familiar with it (which mouthpiece
> techs/gurus/professionals/affictianados should aspire to be). I try not to
> confuse the player's artistry and energy with the acoustical efficiency or
> inefficiency of his equipment. Jackie could play just as fat, and even
> dirtier and more "manly" on the same mouthpiece if it was acoustically
> matched to his horn better, as it and he horn would be more responsive to
> his wishes, in every way, just as he would sound better on his horn if it
> didn't have pad leaks (not that it does) vs. the same horn with leaking
> palm key pads. One just works acoustically better than the other.
>
> From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM
>
>
>
>
> I specifically said at some point in their careers.
>
> Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him
> personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber
> inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished
> saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more
> surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that
> time.
>
> I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg
> exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable.
> I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are
> adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles
> that are connected to that word.
>
> Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean,
> Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable
> intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...>
> > wrote:
>
> **
>
>
> Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller,
> the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the
> smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the
> chambers need to be smaller to compensate.
>
> I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR
> Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee
> Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their
> music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper
> register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a
> mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat
> better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal
> center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound
> correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some
> kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...>
> >
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM
>
>
>
>
> Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt,
> Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren
> Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...>
> > wrote:
>
> **
>
>
> Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the
> proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not
> expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer
> directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to
> the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller
> chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
>
> --- On *Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...>
> >
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
>
>
>
>
> I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...<http://mc/compose?to=john_w_price33@...>
> > wrote:
>
> **
>
>
> Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice
> versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> > with rounded sidewalls.
> >
> > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter,
> Jackie
> > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> > some point in their careers.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a
> squashed
> > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for
> the
> > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt
> > www.matthewvossjazz.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
>
>
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
FROM: mavoss97 (Matthew Voss)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
There is a clip of Nick Biello playing on a large chamber alto piece I made from my own blank as it says clearly on my website. In the interest of accuracy and transparency, the words "nice sounding" are your embellishment and not a direct quote from me or from my website. I infer that accuracy is important to you based on your webpages dedicated to the supposed libel perpetrated against you. On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote: > ** > > > Is the Nick Biello clip on your site an example of your new, nice > sounding, composite, large chambered, custom alto piece? > > > --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@gmail.com>* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM > > > > > I specifically said at some point in their careers. > > Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him > personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber > inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished > saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more > surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that > time. > > I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg > exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. > I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are > adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles > that are connected to that word. > > Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, > Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable > intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday. > > > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, > the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the > smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the > chambers need to be smaller to compensate. > > I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR > Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee > Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their > music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper > register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a > mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat > better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal > center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound > correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some > kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently. > > > --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > >* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM > > > > > Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, > Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren > Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred. > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the > proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not > expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer > directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to > the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller > chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go. > > --- On *Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > >* wrote: > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM > > > > > I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces? > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...<http://mc/compose?to=john_w_price33@...> > > wrote: > > ** > > > Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice > versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, > Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > > > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > > with rounded sidewalls. > > > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, > Jackie > > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > > some point in their careers. > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a > squashed > > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for > the > > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > > > > > --
FROM: kymarto (kymarto123@...)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
Stepping into the fire here: MM, I think, disagrees, but Gary Scavone's work shows little difference in intonation between shorter, larger-chambered mpcs and longer ones with narrower chambers. There is a definite difference in timbre (as if we didn't know) that Scavone speculates is due to detuned higher partials in the fatter piece. This is due to the fact (he guesses) that the fat piece less faithfully mimics the shape of the cone, so the higher partials are weaker, giving a darker, rounder sound. Scavone found no significant intonational differences between the two shapes. If you google "Scavone thesis" you'll find a PDF--look in the second section for the part about mpc modeling. --- Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > There is a clip of Nick Biello playing on a large chamber alto piece I made > from my own blank as it says clearly on my website. > > In the interest of accuracy and transparency, the words "nice sounding" are > your embellishment and not a direct quote from me or from my website. > > I infer that accuracy is important to you based on your webpages dedicated > to the supposed libel perpetrated against you. > > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 8:38 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Is the Nick Biello clip on your site an example of your new, nice > > sounding, composite, large chambered, custom alto piece? > > > > > > --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>* wrote: > > > > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > > > I specifically said at some point in their careers. > > > > Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him > > personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber > > inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished > > saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more > > surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that > > time. > > > > I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg > > exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. > > I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are > > adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles > > that are connected to that word. > > > > Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, > > Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable > > intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...> > > > wrote: > > > > ** > > > > > > Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, > > the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the > > smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the > > chambers need to be smaller to compensate. > > > > I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR > > Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee > > Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their > > music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper > > register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a > > mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat > > better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal > > center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound > > correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some > > kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently. > > > > > > --- On *Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > >* wrote: > > > > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > > To: MouthpieceWork@...m<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, > > Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren > > Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...<http://mc/compose?to=lancelotburt@...> > > > wrote: > > > > ** > > > > > > Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the > > proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not > > expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer > > directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to > > the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller > > chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go. > > > > --- On *Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > >* wrote: > > > > > > From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...<http://mc/compose?to=matthewvossjazz@...> > > > > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces? > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@...<http://mc/compose?to=john_w_price33@...> > > > wrote: > > > > ** > > > > > > Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice > > versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links. > > > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote: > > > > > > Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber > > > with rounded sidewalls. > > > > > > The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, > > Jackie > > > McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at > > > some point in their careers. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a > > squashed > > > > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for > > the > > > > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- >
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
I agree that the large chamber has definite possibilities for the alto. Just scaling a tenor mouthpiece design down to alto size won't do it though. You obviously made alto-specific changes on your custom piece.
The aural phenomena: Deviations from the mouthpiece volume and frequency ideal for any specific horn + player have proportional and pervasive effects on the
instrument's scale, tonal center, tonal balance, note stability, and responsive agility, overall, though especially between registers, in the upper register, and at the extreme dynamic levels. If such a condition exists, even to a minor degree, these effects are readily apparent to anyone familiar with them, and independently of the greatness of the performing player. One perceives the limitation of the instrument. It is a listening skill one must develop, just as in hearing and recogizing pitches,
intervals, harmonic progressions, rhythms, and timbres are for most. It is of great advantage to be proficient enough at playing and knowledgeable on the matter, so that one can systematically experience the various degrees and types of mismatches personally as a performer as well. The greatest benefit comes then from being able to consistently realize the optimal volume/frequency relationship and the playing experience that goes with it.
In the case of lesser accomplished players, note voicing inaccuracies and embouchure issues will blend with these effects so the player is unable to differentiate between their own limitations and those of the horn/mouthpiece
combination. Persistence pays off. The stubbornly limited player's issues can easily make them oblivious to any advantageous combination of the same.
Toby: I can only disagree with your version of what Scavone said, as I find his thesis says something completely different. As I have told you before, it is entirely conceivable that his two mathematical models, one short and fat, one long and slender, both have the same playing frequency, as the long one had what could only be a high, straight baffle section, that exceeded the entire length of the short mouthpiece. We will never know as he did not calculate their resonant frequencies. Nor will we know if either had musically interesting qualities. His conclusions applied to those two particular theoretical designs only, not all mouthpieces as you would profess. The fact is, the mouthpieces that we saxophonists deal with every day behave entirely differently. We have short/fat and long/slender of all conceivable frequencies. If you ever designed a mouthpiece and played on it, you know that basing everything on the theoretical volume,
without actually checking what pitch that particular volume distribution plays at, inevitably results in placing the mouthpiece on the cork at a compromised volume position, just so the pitch is close to playable.
--- On
Thu,
12/29/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 3:03 AM
No apologies necessary. I'm not sure I follow your acoustical mismatch argument to its reasonable end. Aside from the intonation challenges already discussed, what exactly are the "aural phenomena" that is so obvious?
I agree that players should not have to fight their equipment, although I think Jackie McLean is a poor example to illustrate your point; I've never met anyone more capable of translating and executing their ideas.
Legendary altoists like Jackie and Lee ("textbook intonation issues" notwithstanding) aside, I honesty think that large chamber alto pieces manifest tonal characteristics that are not present with medium and smaller chamber pieces, despite the implicit challenges.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:27 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Apologies. I responded to your most recent post in which you did not make that qualification,
"Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny
Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith,
Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred."
Jackie McLean: Sure, some players can play out of tune regardless of what they play on. That in no way obscures the distinctive intonation/tonal, aural phenomena of a large chamber, horn/player acoustical mismatch, which is as obvious as someone playing an ascending diminished scale on a 7 chord, once you are familiar with it (which mouthpiece techs/gurus/professionals/affictianados should aspire to be). I try not to confuse the player's artistry and energy with the acoustical efficiency or inefficiency of his equipment. Jackie could play just as fat, and even dirtier and more "manly" on the same mouthpiece if it was acoustically matched to his horn better, as it and he horn would be more responsive to his wishes, in every way, just as he would sound better on his horn if it didn't have pad leaks (not that it does) vs. the same horn with leaking palm key
pads. One just works acoustically better than the other.
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 9:30 PM
I specifically said at some point in their careers.
Loren is no longer listed on Jody's endorsers page. I've known him personally for several years and can assure you there are no chamber inserts in either his STM or Tonemaster. He is a talented and accomplished saxophonist. I don't know Jesse Davis personally but would be more surprised if he did in fact have a chamber insert in his mouthpiece at that time.
I studied with Jackie in the early 90's when he was playing the Berg exclusively and the comments about his intonation were no less inexorable. I would also suggest that it may be possible that the trade-offs are adequate in pursuit of a certain "sound" and some of the intangibles that are connected to that word.
Of course there is no accountability for taste. I'll take Jackie McLean, Lee or Ian Hendrickson-Smith over many of the altoists with impeccable intonation any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Additionally, while the neck openings and other dims all get smaller, the thickness of the neck cork remains the same. The throat bore of the smaller saxes is proportionally larger than that of the big ones, so the chambers need to be smaller to compensate.
I did a 3 month TV show sitting next to Jerry Dodgion. He played on a HR Berg Larsen which sounded great/tuned impeccably. Jackie Maclean, Lee Konitz, and Ian Hendrckson-Smith, not to diminish the artistry of their music, all display the textbook intonation issues (very sharp in the upper register) and uneven tonal characteristics of someone playing on a mouthpiece with an excessively large chamber. Sonny Stitt did somewhat better with the STM but I much prefer his more refined intonation/tonal center on the HR pieces he performed on. Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis sound correct. It would not surprise me if they had chamber inserts of some kind. I see they both endorse other mouthpiece brands currently.
--- On Wed, 12/28/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 4:08 PM
Perhaps. Fortunately some great alto saxophonists like Sonny Stitt, Jackie McLean, Lee Konitz, Jerry Dodgion, Ian Hendrckson-Smith, Loren Stillman, Jesse Davis, etc. were not deterred.
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM, MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
Given that the body taper is more acute - alto vs. tenor - and thus the proportional chamber volume requirement considerably less, one would not expect the true, large chamber design of the Link tenor piece to transfer directly to alto with the same degree of success. It is not conducive to the correct volume/frequency balance. The HR Tone Edge, with it's smaller chamber is a better design for alto, than the STM, as far as Otto Links go.
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
From: Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Gregory vs Link alto mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 7:06 PM
I thought you were talking about MC Gregory alto pieces?
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM, John <john_w_price33@hotmail.com> wrote:
Number of alto players playing links compared to meyers is small. Vice versa... tenor players playing Meyers vs links.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Voss <matthewvossjazz@...> wrote:
>
> Which model Gregory? There were several. A Link has a large round chamber
> with rounded sidewalls.
>
> The Gregory is more popular among whom exactly? Bird, Benny Carter, Jackie
> McLean, Sonny Stitt, Lee Konitz and Ornette Coleman all played Links at
> some point in their careers.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > As far as the chambers go what is the difference. Is the Link a squashed
> > round chamber? It seems the Link configuration was more suitable for the
> > tenor. What's make the Gregory more popular than a link for alto sax?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Matt
> www.matthewvossjazz.com
>
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com
--
Matt
www.matthewvossjazz.com