Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more)  it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 

I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional. 

Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on the side and tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more likely to change  by being played..   Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and probably from being wiped off after playing. Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:

From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more)  it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 



I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional. 





    
     

    
    






  

We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory  
being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up  
several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference





On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:

> Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why  
> do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on  
> the side and tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more  
> likely to change  by being played..
>    Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the  
> rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and  
> probably from being wiped off after playing.
>  Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are  
> lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?
>
> --- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:
>
> From: clarnut <ewoj@mac.com>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM
>
>
> Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I  
> am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that  
> there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if  
> I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long  
> period of time (a year or more) it seems to have a different quality  
> than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or  
> brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have  
> quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with  
> other mouthpieces as well.
>
> I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when  
> looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional.
>
>
> 

Did you find any difference in the feel?

As I mentioned, I am aware that there are many factors besides the baffle. I also suspected that there would be some change to the rails over playing time. The late Everett Matson used to reface mouthpieces that had been well used because the rails would develop a "tilt" as he called it which would not give the reed a nice flat rail upon which to sit. I have perceived the difference in tone/feel with some hand finished mouthpieces as well. I came to think about this because it seemed that perhaps it was more prevalent in the mouthpieces that were more polished in the interior.






On Oct 11, 2011, at 12:00 PM, STEVE GOODSON wrote:

> We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on the side and tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more likely to change  by being played..
>>    Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and probably from being wiped off after playing.
>>  Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?
>> 
>> --- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:
>> 
>> From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
>> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
>> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM
>> 
>>  
>> Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more) it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 
>> 
>> I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional. 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

no, there was no difference


On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Ed Wojtowicz wrote:

> Did you find any difference in the feel?
>
> As I mentioned, I am aware that there are many factors besides the  
> baffle. I also suspected that there would be some change to the  
> rails over playing time. The late Everett Matson used to reface  
> mouthpieces that had been well used because the rails would develop  
> a "tilt" as he called it which would not give the reed a nice flat  
> rail upon which to sit. I have perceived the difference in tone/feel  
> with some hand finished mouthpieces as well. I came to think about  
> this because it seemed that perhaps it was more prevalent in the  
> mouthpieces that were more polished in the interior.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 12:00 PM, STEVE GOODSON wrote:
>
>> We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the  
>> theory being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing  
>> up several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but  
>>> why do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats  
>>> down on the side and tip rails those are  the part of the  
>>> mouthpiece more likely to change  by being played..
>>>   Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the  
>>> rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and  
>>> probably from being wiped off after playing.
>>> Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are  
>>> lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
>>> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
>>> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response?  
>>> I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize  
>>> that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me  
>>> that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played  
>>> for a long period of time (a year or more) it seems to have a  
>>> different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to  
>>> have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example,  
>>> as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I  
>>> have observed this with other mouthpieces as well.
>>>
>>> I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when  
>>> looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to  
> see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo 
> ! Groups Links
>
>
>

 Mattson was right about a "tilt". This is especially true for clarinet mouthpieces. I found this out when my fantastic Opperman piece slowly became quite average over the years   and then  the same thing happened to a great  Bay mouthpiece. Of course, coming from two masters I was reluctant to try to correct their work. It sure made a difference when I finally did. I once tried Larry Combs' old Selmer mouthpiece that his Woodwind model was based on. It was totally dead sounding and I was told it was " blown out". This mouthpiece had been refaced several times so perhaps there really wasn't anything else that could be done to  revive it.
   Sax mouthpieces seem to be  more tolerant  of flat spots, perhaps because of the longer facing or the wider reed?   Anyone who has ever cleaned out the inside of a really scuzzy mouthpiece in hopes that it would play better without all the crud is usually disappointed that not much has  changed afterwards, so I don't think   a rough or smooth baffle makes a lot of difference.

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

From: STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 9:43 AM
















 



  


    
      
      
      no, there was no difference

On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Ed Wojtowicz wrote:
Did you find any difference in the feel?

As I mentioned, I am aware that there are many factors besides the baffle. I also suspected that there would be some change to the rails over playing time. The late Everett Matson used to reface mouthpieces that had been well used because the rails would develop a "tilt" as he called it which would not give the reed a nice flat rail upon which to sit. I have perceived the difference in tone/feel with some hand finished mouthpieces as well. I came to think about this because it seemed that perhaps it was more prevalent in the mouthpieces that were more polished in the interior.






On Oct 11, 2011, at 12:00 PM, STEVE GOODSON wrote:

We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference






On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:


Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on the side and tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more likely to change  by being played..
   Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and probably from being wiped off after playing.
 Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:

From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM


Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more) it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 

I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional. 








------------------------------------

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Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links






    
     

    
    






  

Hi, Let me intrude on the conversation, but one thing is the intrinsic characteristics of the mouthpiece, reed, ligature that make the response, the tone and timbre of sound and other end is where going to stop this flow of sound.
If after the barrel enters a plastic clarinet will resonate in a way, if it has leather pads resonate in another.
Lately I'm trying with some success a pad made ​​in situ on the basis of the pads that are installed, but without the skin or covering, which ultimately is in contact with the tone hole.
For the feature of this, say, controlled coating that allows the pad to take the shape of your accent until final curing, sealing is perfect and it is once finished if it was a complete resonator tone the inner side of hole .
This effect gives you a tone resonator, a ring and a response that does not depend on the mouthpiece, the baffle, rails or other features. I like to say that now these clarinets have a "taste" different in sound.
Logically all suffer wear clarinet, contractions, expansions of material and therefore, from time to time there to tweak some parts, from the nozzle to the end of the lower body. Especially in wood clarinets.
I hope I have collaborated with the interesting topic.
Fraternally
Silverio
From Argentina

I had a VD B45 clarinet m/p that had an upper-register squeak. On
examination there were some deep scratches on the table, evidently where
someone had pushed a cleaning brush into the m/p. I polished them out and
the piece played OK. Apart from the squeak there was no difference before
and after.

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of STEVE GOODSON
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011 3:00 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?

 

  

We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory being
that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up several, we now
believe it doesn't make any audible difference

 

 

 

 

 

On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:





  


Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why do you
assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on the side and
tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more likely to change  by
being played..

   Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the rails and
table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and probably from being
wiped off after playing.

 Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are lapped and
have no ridges that wear away over time.?

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:


From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM

  

Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am
thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are
multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock
Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year
or more) it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer
often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an
example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I
have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 

I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a
spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional. 

 




  _____  

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 1766 of my spam emails to date.

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Try free scan! 

 A flat table that does not leak air is the first essential   of a good mouthpiece. I guess by eliminating the scratches  you managed to  fix the leak without  rounding  off  the table thereby  causing a new leak.

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...> wrote:

From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...>
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 1:48 PM
















 



  


    
      
      
      I had a VD B45 clarinet m/p that had an upper-register squeak. On examination there were some deep scratches on the table, evidently where someone had pushed a cleaning brush into the m/p. I polished them out and the piece played OK. Apart from the squeak there was no difference before and after.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of STEVE GOODSON
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011 3:00 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?    We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference          On Oct 11, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Peter Deley wrote:

  Perhaps you are right about a new mouthpiece being edgier., but why do you assume it is due to the baffle. Since the reed beats down on the side and tip rails those are  the part of the mouthpiece more likely to change  by being played..   Machining  leaves  little ridges along the whole length of the rails and table  which are gradually worn down by the reed and probably from being wiped off after playing. Do you feel the same way about hand refaced mouthpieces that are lapped and have no ridges that wear away over time.?

--- On Tue, 10/11/11, clarnut <ewoj@...> wrote:
From: clarnut <ewoj@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Baffle finish affect tone/response?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 6:21 AM  Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more) it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 

I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional.    


I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
SPAMfighter has removed 1766 of my spam emails to date.

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I've noticed a difference between filed and sanded, not so much between sanded and polished.  I think what you're experiencing is probably due to facing and tip rail wear.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "clarnut" <ewoj@...> wrote:
>
> Does the finish/texture of the baffle affect the tone or response? I am thinking in particular of hard rubber mouthpieces. I realize that there are multitude of variables to consider. It seems to me that if I take a stock Vandoren mouthpiece that has been played for a long period of time (a year or more)  it seems to have a different quality than any newer ones. The newer often seems to have a more edgy or brittle sound. I use Vandoren as an example, as they seem to have quite a shine and slick finish, although I have observed this with other mouthpieces as well. 
> 
> I have found this over the years with a variety of pieces when looking for a spare mouthpiece. Then again, maybe I am delusional.
>

Agreed.  As soon as condensation begins to gather, it fills in any differences in finish.

Paul

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>
> We experimented with a textured surface on the baffle, with the theory  
> being that it would create a boundary layer......after doing up  
> several, we now believe it doesn't make any audible difference
>