Hi all,
Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that the table is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it easily without much effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing length is too short. It measures as follows on the babbit gauge
0.0015  45
0.010    35
0.014  32
0.024   24.5
0.035   18.5
0.050    12
0.063    7.5
0.078    2.5

Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm

So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?

Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
Fibracell  17.7mm
Bari premier 18.1mm
Rico orange 18.2mm
Vandoren blue 18.7mm

So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?


So it seems that 

Regards
David Tan

How long was the facing length before you started?  Did it feel OK there to you 
when playing?  I like bari facing lengths at 52-54.  But I only play ill-legit.

Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths.  The Vandoren bari reeds 
are significantly wider than others as you have shown with your data.  Tip 
curves and rounded vs square-ish corners  vary more than reed width.




________________________________
From: david tan <dtkky@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4

  
Hi all,
Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that the table 
is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it easily without much 
effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing length is too short. It measures 
as follows on the babbit gauge
0.0015 45
0.010 35
0.014 32
0.024 24.5
0.035 18.5
0.050 12
0.063 7.5
0.078 2.5

Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm

So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?

Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
Fibracell 17.7mm
Bari premier 18.1mm
Rico orange 18.2mm
Vandoren blue 18.7mm

So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?

So it seems that 

Regards
David Tan

Vandoren is okay for legit.  Personally, I find the Gonzalez reeds to be 
a better choice for the sound I look for, but that has a lot to do with 
personal taste.  Gonzalez has a beefier heart cut and comes in quarter 
strengths.    Seriously, you could reduce your current reed strength by 
1/2 strength and still need to do some sanding.  So if you play 3's, try 
2 1/2 Gonzalez.  And since I don't personally believe in "jazz cuts," 
you might as well try Java red and ZZ's.


On 7/6/2011 12:10 PM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> How long was the facing length before you started?  Did it feel OK 
> there to you when playing?  I like bari facing lengths at 52-54.  But 
> I only play ill-legit.
> Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths.  The Vandoren 
> bari reeds are significantly wider than others as you have shown with 
> your data.  Tip curves and rounded vs square-ish corners  vary more 
> than reed width.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* david tan <dtkky@...>
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
>
> Hi all,
> Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that 
> the table is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it 
> easily without much effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing 
> length is too short. It measures as follows on the babbit gauge
> 0.0015 45
> 0.010 35
> 0.014 32
> 0.024 24.5
> 0.035 18.5
> 0.050 12
> 0.063 7.5
> 0.078 2.5
>
> Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
>
> So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
>
> Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> Fibracell 17.7mm
> Bari premier 18.1mm
> Rico orange 18.2mm
> Vandoren blue 18.7mm
>
> So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
>
> So it seems that
>
> Regards
> David Tan
>
> 

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the recommendation. I have not tried Gonzalez reeds yet. Do you know if they are as wide as Vandoren reeds?
as 
David

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W. Smith" <rwpsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Vandoren is okay for legit.  Personally, I find the Gonzalez reeds to be 
> a better choice for the sound I look for, but that has a lot to do with 
> personal taste.  Gonzalez has a beefier heart cut and comes in quarter 
> strengths.    Seriously, you could reduce your current reed strength by 
> 1/2 strength and still need to do some sanding.  So if you play 3's, try 
> 2 1/2 Gonzalez.  And since I don't personally believe in "jazz cuts," 
> you might as well try Java red and ZZ's.
> 

Hi Keith,
The original FL measured 48. I think it's original as there were machining marks on the table. It played Ok but response was a little slow.
I read somewhere on this forum that a medium facing would be 48-50. Maybe I should face it back to 48. Would an elliptical curve be better for classical pieces?

David

PS. I posted twice in response to your questions but it didn't show up on this forum even though it said that the msg has been posted. Hope this gets through.

> On 7/6/2011 12:10 PM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> > How long was the facing length before you started?  Did it feel OK 
> > there to you when playing?  I like bari facing lengths at 52-54.  But 
> > I only play ill-legit.
> > Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths.  The Vandoren 
> > bari reeds are significantly wider than others as you have shown with 
> > your data.  Tip curves and rounded vs square-ish corners  vary more 
> > than reed width.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* david tan <dtkky@...>
> > *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> > *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
> >
> > Hi all,
> > Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that 
> > the table is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it 
> > easily without much effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing 
> > length is too short. It measures as follows on the babbit gauge
> > 0.0015 45
> > 0.010 35
> > 0.014 32
> > 0.024 24.5
> > 0.035 18.5
> > 0.050 12
> > 0.063 7.5
> > 0.078 2.5
> >
> > Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
> >
> > So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
> >
> > Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> > I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> > Fibracell 17.7mm
> > Bari premier 18.1mm
> > Rico orange 18.2mm
> > Vandoren blue 18.7mm
> >
> > So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
> >
> > So it seems that
> >
> > Regards
> > David Tan
> >
> >
>

I would start with an elliptical facing curve with an a/b ratio of 4.  Facing 
length 49.  If you have not faced a lot of mouthpieces, getting the facing 
really close to a target curve is more important than which type of curve you 
choose (within reason). 


If you are on a good curve (no bumps, flat spots or unevenness left to right), 
and the response is slow, then you can consider a different facing curve.  But 
try a few reeds first and/or adjust your reeds.

For better low note response, try a longer facing curve and/or a a/b ratio of 1 
to 2.  You may need to try a wider tip opening with that too since 2.1 mm = 
.083" on bari is pretty wimpy.

For faster articulation, you may want to try adding more resistance.  a/b ratios 
of 6-8 can be tried.  





________________________________
From: david tan <dtkky@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 3:46:33 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Vandoren BL4

  


Hi Keith,
The original FL measured 48. I think it's original as there were machining marks 
on the table. It played Ok but response was a little slow.
I read somewhere on this forum that a medium facing would be 48-50. Maybe I 
should face it back to 48. Would an elliptical curve be better for classical 
pieces?

David

PS. I posted twice in response to your questions but it didn't show up on this 
forum even though it said that the msg has been posted. Hope this gets through.

> On 7/6/2011 12:10 PM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> > How long was the facing length before you started? Did it feel OK 
> > there to you when playing? I like bari facing lengths at 52-54. But 
> > I only play ill-legit.
> > Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths. The Vandoren 
> > bari reeds are significantly wider than others as you have shown with 
> > your data. Tip curves and rounded vs square-ish corners vary more 
> > than reed width.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* david tan <dtkky@...>
> > *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> > *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
> >
> > Hi all,
> > Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that 
> > the table is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it 
> > easily without much effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing 
> > length is too short. It measures as follows on the babbit gauge
> > 0.0015 45
> > 0.010 35
> > 0.014 32
> > 0.024 24.5
> > 0.035 18.5
> > 0.050 12
> > 0.063 7.5
> > 0.078 2.5
> >
> > Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
> >
> > So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
> >
> > Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> > I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> > Fibracell 17.7mm
> > Bari premier 18.1mm
> > Rico orange 18.2mm
> > Vandoren blue 18.7mm
> >
> > So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
> >
> > So it seems that
> >
> > Regards
> > David Tan
> >
> >
>

Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply. The FL was 48 before I flattened the table. I think this could be original as there were still machining marks on the table. It played OK but no wow factor. 
I read elsewhere on this forum that a medium facing would be 48-50. I would certainly prefer a facing that responds well to fast articulation so often demanded by legit playing but not at the expense of the low end.
Would you think an elliptical curve would be better in this regard?

David


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> How long was the facing length before you started?  Did it feel OK there to you 
> when playing?  I like bari facing lengths at 52-54.  But I only play ill-legit.
> 
> Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths.  The Vandoren bari reeds 
> are significantly wider than others as you have shown with your data.  Tip 
> curves and rounded vs square-ish corners  vary more than reed width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: david tan <dtkky@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
> 
>   
> Hi all,
> Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that the table 
> is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it easily without much 
> effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing length is too short. It measures 
> as follows on the babbit gauge
> 0.0015 45
> 0.010 35
> 0.014 32
> 0.024 24.5
> 0.035 18.5
> 0.050 12
> 0.063 7.5
> 0.078 2.5
> 
> Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
> 
> So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
> 
> Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> Fibracell 17.7mm
> Bari premier 18.1mm
> Rico orange 18.2mm
> Vandoren blue 18.7mm
> 
> So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
> 
> So it seems that 
> 
> Regards
> David Tan
>

Hi Keith,
Thanks for replying. The FL was 48 before I started. There were machining marks on the table, so I assume it was un-molested before. (not sure about this, not having inspected a brand new BL4 before). The Vandoren catalog describes the BL4 as having medium facing with a tip opening of 2.3mm, although I have a feeling they are measuring the very end of the tip. The low end response was not as good although that may alos be due to the uneven table before I started measuring.
Read on SOTW that most BL4 users use vandoren reeds because of this reed width issue although a Legere might just fit. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> How long was the facing length before you started?  Did it feel OK there to you 
> when playing?  I like bari facing lengths at 52-54.  But I only play ill-legit.
> 
> Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths.  The Vandoren bari reeds 
> are significantly wider than others as you have shown with your data.  Tip 
> curves and rounded vs square-ish corners  vary more than reed width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: david tan <dtkky@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
> 
>   
> Hi all,
> Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that the table 
> is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it easily without much 
> effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing length is too short. It measures 
> as follows on the babbit gauge
> 0.0015 45
> 0.010 35
> 0.014 32
> 0.024 24.5
> 0.035 18.5
> 0.050 12
> 0.063 7.5
> 0.078 2.5
> 
> Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
> 
> So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
> 
> Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> Fibracell 17.7mm
> Bari premier 18.1mm
> Rico orange 18.2mm
> Vandoren blue 18.7mm
> 
> So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
> 
> So it seems that 
> 
> Regards
> David Tan
>

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try. For jazz, I use a HR Link 8, but I wanted to try a smaller tip opening with a harder reed for a different tone concept. I do see a lot of legit guys using BL4 and even BL3.

David

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I would start with an elliptical facing curve with an a/b ratio of 4.  Facing 
> length 49.  If you have not faced a lot of mouthpieces, getting the facing 
> really close to a target curve is more important than which type of curve you 
> choose (within reason). 
> 
> 
> If you are on a good curve (no bumps, flat spots or unevenness left to right), 
> and the response is slow, then you can consider a different facing curve.  But 
> try a few reeds first and/or adjust your reeds.
> 
> For better low note response, try a longer facing curve and/or a a/b ratio of 1 
> to 2.  You may need to try a wider tip opening with that too since 2.1 mm = 
> .083" on bari is pretty wimpy.
> 
> For faster articulation, you may want to try adding more resistance.  a/b ratios 
> of 6-8 can be tried.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: david tan <dtkky@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, July 7, 2011 3:46:33 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Vandoren BL4
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Hi Keith,
> The original FL measured 48. I think it's original as there were machining marks 
> on the table. It played Ok but response was a little slow.
> I read somewhere on this forum that a medium facing would be 48-50. Maybe I 
> should face it back to 48. Would an elliptical curve be better for classical 
> pieces?
> 
> David
> 
> PS. I posted twice in response to your questions but it didn't show up on this 
> forum even though it said that the msg has been posted. Hope this gets through.
> 
> > On 7/6/2011 12:10 PM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> > > How long was the facing length before you started? Did it feel OK 
> > > there to you when playing? I like bari facing lengths at 52-54. But 
> > > I only play ill-legit.
> > > Most cane reeds seem to have fairly standard widths. The Vandoren 
> > > bari reeds are significantly wider than others as you have shown with 
> > > your data. Tip curves and rounded vs square-ish corners vary more 
> > > than reed width.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* david tan <dtkky@>
> > > *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > > *Sent:* Wed, July 6, 2011 11:55:32 AM
> > > *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Vandoren BL4
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Just bought a used Vandoren optimum BL4 legit playing and found that 
> > > the table is not flat. Luckily, it wasn't that bad, and I flattened it 
> > > easily without much effort with 1000 sandpaper. But now the facing 
> > > length is too short. It measures as follows on the babbit gauge
> > > 0.0015 45
> > > 0.010 35
> > > 0.014 32
> > > 0.024 24.5
> > > 0.035 18.5
> > > 0.050 12
> > > 0.063 7.5
> > > 0.078 2.5
> > >
> > > Tip measures 2.1mm and tip rail is 1.2mm
> > >
> > > So what's a good recommendation for legit playing?
> > >
> > > Also, I find that the Vandoren's window is quite wide.(17.2mm)
> > > I measured the width of some reeds and found the following:
> > > Fibracell 17.7mm
> > > Bari premier 18.1mm
> > > Rico orange 18.2mm
> > > Vandoren blue 18.7mm
> > >
> > > So it seems I'm destined to use only Vandoren reeds?
> > >
> > > So it seems that
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > David Tan
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Isn't 45 to 48 half millimeters really to long of a facing. I have never
heard of such a thing or measured a mouthpiece that long. Tell me before I
am forced to experiment with that. 

 

Thanks

 

Mike Vaccaro

 

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Not at all. 45-48 on the glass gauge (22.5-24mm) for a bari facing length is
very moderate.  
  
DT  
  
On 7/8/2011 1:50 PM, Mike Vaccaro wrote:

> Isn't 45 to 48 half millimeters really to long of a facing. I have never
> heard of such a thing or measured a mouthpiece that long. Tell me before I
> am forced to experiment with that.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Vaccaro

Ok, a Baritone mouthpiece. Now I get it. I thought someone had that facing
on a clarinet mouthpiece. Baritone ok, clarinet not so ok.

Thanks for clarifying

 

Mike Vaccaro