Hi,

I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.

It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G")  but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.

It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).

What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?

I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?

Thanks for any advice,

David

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Bowater <davebow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
> 
> It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G")  but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.
> 
> It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
> The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).
> 
> What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
> 
> I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
> I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?
> 
> Thanks for any advice,
> 
> David

I'll bet the problem is the "wide open throat", rather than the rollover baffle.  

Increasing the "bore" or throat or otherwise hogging out the chamber does not make it louder or more "free blowing".  The air velocity in a mouthpiece is very low and aerodynamics has little effect except in the region of the baffle right after the tip rail.  The air column produces its tone via a standing wave.

Paul

Check the rails for even-ness and for bumps

Barry


> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Bowater <davebow@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
>>
>> It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down
>> lower register below "G")  but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it
>> becomes increasingly unstable.
>>
>> It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll
>> over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
>> The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about
>> 3/32nds).
>>
>> What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
>>
>> I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
>> I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip
>> end. Should this curve be more regular?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice,
>>
>> David
>
> I'll bet the problem is the "wide open throat", rather than the rollover
> baffle.
>
> Increasing the "bore" or throat or otherwise hogging out the chamber does
> not make it louder or more "free blowing".  The air velocity in a
> mouthpiece is very low and aerodynamics has little effect except in the
> region of the baffle right after the tip rail.  The air column produces
> its tone via a standing wave.
>
> Paul
>
>
>

You did not say what kind of instability.  Intonation control, articulation, 
response, choking off, or what?   For most cases, I would say it is probably a 
facing curve precision issue.  Your reed choice and embouchure also 
contributes.  Other players may have more/less problems with the same mouthpiece 
because of these factors.




________________________________
From: David Bowater <davebow@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:41:37 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Top end problems

  
Hi,

I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.

It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower 
register below "G") but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes 
increasingly unstable.

It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that 
extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).

What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?

I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should 
this curve be more regular?

Thanks for any advice,

David





      

Just what kind of instability are we talking about here?  Is it just too flexible or does it tend to be too sharp?  A facing curve that is too long can bee too flexible, distinct pitch tendencies are another issue.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Bowater <davebow@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
> 
> It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G")  but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.
> 
> It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
> The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).
> 
> What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
> 
> I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
> I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?
> 
> Thanks for any advice,
> 
> David
>

On 30/01/2011, at 6:31 AM, Keith Bradbury wrote:

The sound breaks up and shrieks very easily (upper partials). I've experimented with several different reeds.

> 
> You did not say what kind of instability.  Intonation control, articulation, response, choking off, or what?   For most cases, I would say it is probably a facing curve precision issue.  Your reed choice and embouchure also contributes.  Other players may have more/less problems with the same mouthpiece because of these factors.
> 
> From: David Bowater <davebow@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:41:37 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Top end problems
> 
>  
> Hi,
> 
> I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
> 
> It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G") but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.
> 
> It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
> The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).
> 
> What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
> 
> I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
> I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?
> 
> Thanks for any advice,
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

If it squeals easily and responds poorly, I would look for high spots on the curve, and check the symmetry of the curve and tip against the glass gauge, and look for any obvious imbalance in baffle height near the tip.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Bowater <davebow@...> wrote:
>
> 
> On 30/01/2011, at 6:31 AM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> 
> The sound breaks up and shrieks very easily (upper partials). I've experimented with several different reeds.
> 
> > 
> > You did not say what kind of instability.  Intonation control, articulation, response, choking off, or what?   For most cases, I would say it is probably a facing curve precision issue.  Your reed choice and embouchure also contributes.  Other players may have more/less problems with the same mouthpiece because of these factors.
> > 
> > From: David Bowater <davebow@...>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:41:37 AM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Top end problems
> > 
> >  
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
> > 
> > It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G") but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.
> > 
> > It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
> > The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).
> > 
> > What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
> > 
> > I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
> > I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?
> > 
> > Thanks for any advice,
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Thanks

On 30/01/2011, at 11:37 AM, Morgan wrote:

> If it squeals easily and responds poorly, I would look for high spots on the curve, and check the symmetry of the curve and tip against the glass gauge, and look for any obvious imbalance in baffle height near the tip.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Bowater <davebow@...> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On 30/01/2011, at 6:31 AM, Keith Bradbury wrote:
> > 
> > The sound breaks up and shrieks very easily (upper partials). I've experimented with several different reeds.
> > 
> > > 
> > > You did not say what kind of instability. Intonation control, articulation, response, choking off, or what? For most cases, I would say it is probably a facing curve precision issue. Your reed choice and embouchure also contributes. Other players may have more/less problems with the same mouthpiece because of these factors.
> > > 
> > > From: David Bowater <davebow@...>
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:41:37 AM
> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Top end problems
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I've recently received an alto mouthpiece from an American maker.
> > > 
> > > It's bright, with good volume and quite good tone( little nasal down lower register below "G") but when I go up from 3rd register "D" it becomes increasingly unstable.
> > > 
> > > It looks as though it's based on the Meyer but has a pronounced roll over that extends for approx 1/2 an inch before it ducks down.
> > > The throat is wide open. The rails are thicker than the Meyer ( about 3/32nds).
> > > 
> > > What I want to know is what contributes to top end instability?
> > > 
> > > I suppose the pronounced baffle is the main culprit.
> > > I can see the facing curves rather sharply about 3/8ths from the tip end. Should this curve be more regular?
> > > 
> > > Thanks for any advice,
> > > 
> > > David
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
> 
> 

Yeah, what Morgan said.  

Did you try a Fibracell reed?  They are just about squeak proof even if the 
facing has issues.  I have a FAQ answer on my site about squeaks.




________________________________
From: Morgan <frymorgan@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 5:37:37 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Top end problems

  
If it squeals easily and responds poorly, I would look for high spots on the 
curve, and check the symmetry of the curve and tip against the glass gauge, and 
look for any obvious imbalance in baffle height near the tip.