I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up

I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the 3rd Register
I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives many combinations of alternate fingerings.

I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the mouthpiece that might influence the results. Does the Length of lay or tip opening affect the altissimo success rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?

I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds

I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success going higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours are out)

Kind Regards, Peter

 Altissimo on clarinet and sax are the same and   almost any decent mouthpiece /reed combination works well.   Probably the reed is more critical. If you get Ridenour's reed adjusting kit ( highly recommended)  you will find that he uses low D, third A and  altissimo A  to test a reed for hardness and response. You sand  material off the shoulders of the reed until all three notes speak easily.    To play altissimo you need to shape the inside of your mouth as if you are trying to sing the note you want. Someone has even experimented with tiny mics in sax players' mouths and found that those who could play altissimo were actually "resonating' the required note by their mouth shape and this was  was being picked up by the mics.   Under no circumstance should you try to play altissimo notes by firming up the embouchure or , even worse biting.   I'm sure you can get advice about how to modify a mouthpiece to facilitate playing high notes but
 this often comes at the expense of poor quality low register notes.


      

There are several good books on saxophone altissimo register which teach 
the technique of "revoicing" within the oral cavity.  The techniques 
work on clarinet as well.  When speaking with "lead" trumpet specialists 
and french horn players with extended ranges, I find that they all use 
similar methods.  I personally find Yamaha clarinets to be a bit stuffy 
when compared to other instruments out there, but I have no trouble 
going beyond the staff on them with my Portnoy B2.

You might try contacting Dr. Robert DiLutis @ LSU in Baton Rouge.  He 
makes a fabulous mouthpiece and may be able to help you out.  And 
they're cheaper than the name brands!

On 12/19/2010 2:32 PM, pjhmusic2004 wrote:
>
> I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register, and 
> would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up
>
> I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the 3rd 
> Register
> I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives many 
> combinations of alternate fingerings.
>
> I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the mouthpiece 
> that might influence the results. Does the Length of lay or tip 
> opening affect the altissimo success rate? or is it more the Reed? or 
> Player?
>
> I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece 
> and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds
>
> I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success going 
> higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours are out)
>
> Kind Regards, Peter
>
> 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...> wrote:
>
> I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up
> 
> I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the 3rd Register
> I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives many combinations of alternate fingerings.
> 
> I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the mouthpiece that might influence the results. Does the Length of lay or tip opening affect the altissimo success rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?
> 
> I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds
> 
> I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success going higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours are out)
> 
> Kind Regards, Peter
>
Peter,
Up there where you are trying to play is in the smallest tip end of the reed and the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a thinner tip - we are talking about the first 1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught with danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece and reed that can do this for you.
KenL

The Selmer C85 120 is already a pretty open mouthpiece.  I might well have suggested a more closed mouthpiece and a stiffer reed.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

--- On Sun, 12/19/10, KenL <kenlphotos@...> wrote:


From: KenL <kenlphotos@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 5:43 PM




--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...> wrote:
>
> I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up
> 
> I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the 3rd Register
> I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives many combinations of alternate fingerings.
> 
> I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the mouthpiece that might influence the results. Does the Length of lay or tip opening affect the altissimo success rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?
> 
> I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds
> 
> I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success going higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours are out)
> 
> Kind Regards, Peter
>
Peter,
Up there where you are trying to play is in the smallest tip end of the reed and the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a thinner tip - we are talking about the first 1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught with danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece and reed that can do this for you.
KenL




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And of course this is all assuming that your reeds are properly broken 
in and adjusted, and that you've laid the groundwork with practicing the 
re-voicing exercises.  I've always gotten a lot out of Sigurd Rascher's 
"bugle call" exercise.

If you're using "blue box" VanDoren's consider switching to V12's or the 
Rue le Pic reeds.  Same price, superior cane and very different cuts.  
The Rue le Pic has a pretty beefy heart cut.  I prefer Gonzalez and 
Zonda reeds, because I like the cane coming out of south america.  I've 
also used the Peter Ponzol reeds, which also use South American cane.  
Just remember, as with mouthpieces, you won't necessarily like the same 
reeds for every instrument.

On 12/19/2010 10:49 PM, Bill Hausmann wrote:
>
> The Selmer C85 120 is already a pretty open mouthpiece.  I might well 
> have suggested a more closed mouthpiece and a stiffer reed.
>
> Bill Hausmann
>
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
>
> --- On *Sun, 12/19/10, KenL /<kenlphotos@...>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: KenL <kenlphotos@...>
>     Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
>     To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>     Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 5:43 PM
>
>
>
>     --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>     <http://us.mc393.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>,
>     "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...> wrote:
>     >
>     > I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register,
>     and would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up
>     >
>     > I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the
>     3rd Register
>     > I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives
>     many combinations of alternate fingerings.
>     >
>     > I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the
>     mouthpiece that might influence the results. Does the Length of
>     lay or tip opening affect the altissimo success rate?  or is it
>     more the Reed?  or Player?
>     >
>     > I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120
>     mouthpiece and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds
>     >
>     > I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success
>     going higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours
>     are out)
>     >
>     > Kind Regards, Peter
>     >
>     Peter,
>     Up there where you are trying to play is in the smallest tip end
>     of the reed and the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more
>     opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a thinner tip - we
>     are talking about the first 1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught
>     with danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece and reed that
>     can do this for you.
>     KenL
>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------
>
>     Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
>     MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>     <http://us.mc393.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
>
>     Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
>     see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
>     To see and modify your groups, go to
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     MouthpieceWork-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>     <http://us.mc393.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MouthpieceWork-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
>
> 

Many Thanks for all of your replies to this post!!!

I Agree that I should try a little less open m/p and stiffer reeds - 
trying different brands also.
On my Saxophone i do practise the overtone exercises - but not as often 
as I should (shame on me)

I must be honest and say that I haven't done these exercises on the 
Clarinet - Is this an exercise that should be practised  on Clarinet as 
on the Sax -
Without using the register key?

Does the shape of the baffle affect altissimo?


Thanks for you info
Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert W. Smith <rwpsmith@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
CC: Bill Hausmann <zoot51@...>
Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 5:45
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo





         And of course this is all assuming that your reeds are properly 
    broken in and adjusted, and that you've laid the groundwork with    
practicing the re-voicing exercises.  I've always gotten a lot out    
of Sigurd Rascher's "bugle call" exercise.

     If you're using "blue box" VanDoren's consider switching to V12's 
or    the Rue le Pic reeds.  Same price, superior cane and very 
different    cuts.  The Rue le Pic has a pretty beefy heart cut.  I 
prefer    Gonzalez and Zonda reeds, because I like the cane coming out 
of    south america.  I've also used the Peter Ponzol reeds, which also 
    use South American cane.  Just remember, as with mouthpieces, you    
won't necessarily like the same reeds for every instrument.

    On 12/19/2010 10:49 PM, Bill Hausmann wrote:
       





The Selmer                      C85 120 is already a pretty open 
mouthpiece.  I                      might well have suggested a more 
closed mouthpiece                      and a stiffer reed.

                      Bill Hausmann

                       If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the   
                   band is TOO LOUD!

                       --- On Sun, 12/19/10, KenL 
<kenlphotos@verizon.net>                      wrote:


                        From: KenL <kenlphotos@...>
                         Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for  
                      the altissimo
                        To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 5:43 PM




                           --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,        
                   "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...>                 
         wrote:
                          >
                           > I am trying my best to work on the high     
                      end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice     
                     on mouthpiece / Reed set up
                          >
                           > I know that there are several fingerings    
                      that can be used in the 3rd Register
                           > I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet         
                  fingerings book, which gives many combinations         
                 of alternate fingerings.
                          >
                           > I was wondering if there were any           
                characteristics of the mouthpiece that might             
              influence the results. Does the Length of lay              
             or tip opening affect the altissimo success                 
         rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?
                          >
                           > I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet       
                    with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2             
             vandoren reeds
                          >
                           > I am able to play high G and A but I am     
                      not having much success going higher (I tend       
                    to practise these notes when the neighbours          
                are out)
                          >
                          > Kind Regards, Peter
                          >
                          Peter,
                           Up there where you are trying to play is in   
                        the smallest tip end of the reed and the         
                  mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more         
                  opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a         
                  thinner tip - we are talking about the first           
                1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught with              
             danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece                
          and reed that can do this for you.
                          KenL




                          ------------------------------------

                           Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

                           Visit the site at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork                          
to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks                          
relating to Mouthpiece Work.

                           To see and modify your groups, go to 
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Links

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This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Use register key on clarinet. The throry is that a good embouchure, reed and
mouthpiece has all the overtones in the sound so you easily can trigger them
by hitting the register key without changeing the embouchure.  

KenL  
  
Dec 20, 2010 01:59:36 AM, MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com wrote:  

> Many Thanks for all of your replies to this post!!!  
>  
> I Agree that I should try a little less open m/p and stiffer reeds -  
> trying different brands also.  
> On my Saxophone i do practise the overtone exercises - but not as often  
> as I should (shame on me)  
>  
> I must be honest and say that I haven't done these exercises on the  
> Clarinet - Is this an exercise that should be practised on Clarinet as  
> on the Sax -  
> Without using the register key?  
>  
> Does the shape of the baffle affect altissimo?  
>  
> Thanks for you info  
> Peter  
>  
> \\-----Original Message-----  
> From: Robert W. Smith <[rwpsmith@...]()>  
> To: [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]()  
> CC: Bill Hausmann <[zoot51@...]()>  
> Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 5:45  
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo  
>  
> And of course this is all assuming that your reeds are properly  
> broken in and adjusted, and that you've laid the groundwork with  
> practicing the re-voicing exercises. I've always gotten a lot out  
> of Sigurd Rascher's "bugle call" exercise.  
>  
> If you're using "blue box" VanDoren's consider switching to V12's  
> or the Rue le Pic reeds. Same price, superior cane and very  
> different cuts. The Rue le Pic has a pretty beefy heart cut. I  
> prefer Gonzalez and Zonda reeds, because I like the cane coming out  
> of south america. I've also used the Peter Ponzol reeds, which also  
> use South American cane. Just remember, as with mouthpieces, you  
> won't necessarily like the same reeds for every instrument.  
>  
> On 12/19/2010 10:49 PM, Bill Hausmann wrote:  
>  
>  
> The Selmer C85 120 is already a pretty open  
> mouthpiece. I might well have suggested a more  
> closed mouthpiece and a stiffer reed.  
>  
> Bill Hausmann  
>  
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the  
> band is TOO LOUD!  
>  
> \\--- On Sun, 12/19/10, KenL  
> <[kenlphotos@...]()> wrote:  
>  
> From: KenL <[kenlphotos@...]()>  
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for  
> the altissimo  
> To: [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]()  
> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 5:43 PM  
>  
> \\--- In [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](),  
> "pjhmusic2004"  
> wrote:  
> >  
> > I am trying my best to work on the high  
> end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice  
> on mouthpiece / Reed set up  
> >  
> > I know that there are several fingerings  
> that can be used in the 3rd Register  
> > I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet  
> fingerings book, which gives many combinations  
> of alternate fingerings.  
> >  
> > I was wondering if there were any  
> characteristics of the mouthpiece that might  
> influence the results. Does the Length of lay  
> or tip opening affect the altissimo success  
> rate? or is it more the Reed? or Player?  
> >  
> > I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet  
> with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2  
> vandoren reeds  
> >  
> > I am able to play high G and A but I am  
> not having much success going higher (I tend  
> to practise these notes when the neighbours  
> are out)  
> >  
> > Kind Regards, Peter  
> >  
> Peter,  
> Up there where you are trying to play is in  
> the smallest tip end of the reed and the  
> mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more  
> opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a  
> thinner tip - we are talking about the first  
> 1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught with  
> danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece  
> and reed that can do this for you.  
> KenL  
>  
> \\------------------------------------  
>  
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to  
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]()  
>  
> Visit the site at  
>   
> to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks  
> relating to Mouthpiece Work.  
>  
> To see and modify your groups, go to  
> ! Groups  
> Links  
>  
>   
>  
>  (Yahoo! ID required)  
>  
>  
> [MouthpieceWork- fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com]()  
>  
>

Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned from an orchestral clarinetist.

For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the saxophone.  Those are very small holes.

The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd register came out easily.

Paul C.

Paul, you may not be aware of it, but the bass clarinet top left hand key is set up for half hole fingering by moving the left hand index finger onto the key extension. The recorder which is also a cylindrical shaped instrument uses left hand index finger half hole fingerings on high notes. The half hole index fingering on the clarinet will help the response of high C#/Db through F. 

It is my experience that attempting to play the high register of the clarinet on reeds that are too soft, such as a 2 1/2 will yield poor results with regard to response and worse results with regard to accurate intonation.

The exercises should be practiced on every horn that you play.  My tenor 
and alto both voice a little differently, and if I don't keep them 
"locked in" with practice, I'll lunch it on a show.  Very embarrassing.  
You should also play around with the fingerings to find the ones that 
vent best on your instrument.  Once again, my tenor "vents" differently 
from my alto, so I have a couple of different fingerings for them.

Phil Woods made the point at a master class that I attended that if you 
can hear the pitch, you can play it.  I find that to be mostly true.  
But you have to ear train by having success in the practice room.

Go to your local music store and buy a few single reeds of various type, 
then ask if you can try mouthpieces.  Reputable stores will let you.

Robert W. Smith
"practice doesn't make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect."

On 12/20/2010 12:59 AM, peterhepplewhite@... wrote:
>
> Many Thanks for all of your replies to this post!!!
>
> I Agree that I should try a little less open m/p and stiffer reeds -
> trying different brands also.
> On my Saxophone i do practise the overtone exercises - but not as often
> as I should (shame on me)
>
> I must be honest and say that I haven't done these exercises on the
> Clarinet - Is this an exercise that should be practised on Clarinet as
> on the Sax -
> Without using the register key?
>
> Does the shape of the baffle affect altissimo?
>
> Thanks for you info
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert W. Smith <rwpsmith@... 
> <mailto:rwpsmith%40comcast.net>>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
> CC: Bill Hausmann <zoot51@... <mailto:zoot51%40yahoo.com>>
> Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 5:45
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
>
> And of course this is all assuming that your reeds are properly
> broken in and adjusted, and that you've laid the groundwork with
> practicing the re-voicing exercises.  I've always gotten a lot out
> of Sigurd Rascher's "bugle call" exercise.
>
> If you're using "blue box" VanDoren's consider switching to V12's
> or the Rue le Pic reeds.  Same price, superior cane and very
> different cuts.  The Rue le Pic has a pretty beefy heart cut.  I
> prefer Gonzalez and Zonda reeds, because I like the cane coming out
> of south america.  I've also used the Peter Ponzol reeds, which also
> use South American cane.  Just remember, as with mouthpieces, you
> won't necessarily like the same reeds for every instrument.
>
> On 12/19/2010 10:49 PM, Bill Hausmann wrote:
>
>
> The Selmer C85 120 is already a pretty open
> mouthpiece.  I might well have suggested a more
> closed mouthpiece and a stiffer reed.
>
> Bill Hausmann
>
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the
> band is TOO LOUD!
>
> --- On Sun, 12/19/10, KenL
> <kenlphotos@... <mailto:kenlphotos%40verizon.net>> wrote:
>
> From: KenL <kenlphotos@... <mailto:kenlphotos%40verizon.net>>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for
> the altissimo
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 5:43 PM
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am trying my best to work on the high
> end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice
> on mouthpiece / Reed set up
> >
> > I know that there are several fingerings
> that can be used in the 3rd Register
> > I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet
> fingerings book, which gives many combinations
> of alternate fingerings.
> >
> > I was wondering if there were any
> characteristics of the mouthpiece that might
> influence the results. Does the Length of lay
> or tip opening affect the altissimo success
> rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?
> >
> > I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet
> with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2
> vandoren reeds
> >
> > I am able to play high G and A but I am
> not having much success going higher (I tend
> to practise these notes when the neighbours
> are out)
> >
> > Kind Regards, Peter
> >
> Peter,
> Up there where you are trying to play is in
> the smallest tip end of the reed and the
> mouthpiece. The mouthpiece may need a tad more
> opening at the tip or the reed needs to gave a
> thinner tip - we are talking about the first
> 1.5mm or less. This is an area fraught with
> danger. It would better to find a mouthpiece
> and reed that can do this for you.
> KenL
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Visit the site at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork
> to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks
> relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups
> Links
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
> MouthpieceWork-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> 

The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small vent in the key.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "tenorman1952" 
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07 
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned from an orchestral clarinetist.

For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the saxophone.  Those are very small holes.

The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd register came out easily.

Paul C.




------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

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Do not automatically assume that a 2 1/2 reed is automatically "too soft" just because of the number.  A Vandoren 2 1/2 is a 3 of anything else, and on as open a mouthpiece as a 120 it should be fine.  I see too many people equating reed strength with how good a player you are, resulting in a lot of high school clarinetists with horrible, airy sounds because their reed strength exceeds their mouthpiece and embouchure.  I have many clarinet mouthpieces and play anything from a 2 1/2 to a 4 1/2 reed depending on which I use and for what purpose.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "gregwier" 
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:15:38 
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Paul, you may not be aware of it, but the bass clarinet top left hand key is set up for half hole fingering by moving the left hand index finger onto the key extension. The recorder which is also a cylindrical shaped instrument uses left hand index finger half hole fingerings on high notes. The half hole index fingering on the clarinet will help the response of high C#/Db through F. 

It is my experience that attempting to play the high register of the clarinet on reeds that are too soft, such as a 2 1/2 will yield poor results with regard to response and worse results with regard to accurate intonation.



------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links

Do not automatically assume that a 2 1/2 reed is automatically "too soft" just because of the number.  A Vandoren 2 1/2 is a 3 of anything else, and on as open a mouthpiece as a 120 it should be fine.  I see too many people equating reed strength with how good a player you are, resulting in a lot of high school clarinetists with horrible, airy sounds because their reed strength exceeds their mouthpiece and embouchure.  I have many clarinet mouthpieces and play anything from a 2 1/2 to a 4 1/2 reed depending on which I use and for what purpose.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "gregwier" 
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:15:38 
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Paul, you may not be aware of it, but the bass clarinet top left hand key is set up for half hole fingering by moving the left hand index finger onto the key extension. The recorder which is also a cylindrical shaped instrument uses left hand index finger half hole fingerings on high notes. The half hole index fingering on the clarinet will help the response of high C#/Db through F. 

It is my experience that attempting to play the high register of the clarinet on reeds that are too soft, such as a 2 1/2 will yield poor results with regard to response and worse results with regard to accurate intonation.



------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links

 Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to them.  This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher book, Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this  book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or other books.  Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may also have to be added to correct for pitch.  I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the
 altissimo.It has been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@... <zoot51@...> wrote:

From: zoot51@... <zoot51@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small vent in the key.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



-----Original Message-----

From: "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...>

Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07 

To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>

Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo





Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned from an orchestral clarinetist.



For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the saxophone.  Those are very small holes.



The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd register came out easily.



Paul C.









------------------------------------



Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com



Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.



To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links









    
     

    
    


 



  











      

I have always preferred softer reeds with medium to open tip,
It is time to move on and go for slightly harder reed, and maybe try 
some new mouthpieces
Thanks for all your info
The Clarinet never fails to ba a rewarding challenge!

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Deley <pfdeley@yahoo.com>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:43
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo







 Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the 
idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on 
to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to 
them.
  This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher book, 
Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of 
overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this 
 book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we 
need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or 
other books.
  Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the 
even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# 
and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to 
voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may 
also have to be added to correct for pitch.
  I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the altissimo.It has 
been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very 
soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he 
did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@... <zoot51@...> wrote:


From: zoot51@... <zoot51@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM


  

The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau 
coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small 
vent in the key.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...>
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass 
clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned 
from an orchestral clarinetist.

For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left 
hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second 
register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to 
the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the 
saxophone.  Those are very small holes.

The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the 
hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, 
or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd 
register came out easily.

Paul C.




------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links














  

Of course, what and how you play makes a difference.  Classical players generally use close facings and stiff reeds.  Jazz players prefer more open/soft setups which make note bending and vibrato easier.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: peterhepplewhite@aol.com
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:02:20 
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

I have always preferred softer reeds with medium to open tip,
It is time to move on and go for slightly harder reed, and maybe try 
some new mouthpieces
Thanks for all your info
The Clarinet never fails to ba a rewarding challenge!

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Deley 
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:43
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo







 Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the 
idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on 
to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to 
them.
  This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher book, 
Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of 
overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this 
 book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we 
need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or 
other books.
  Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the 
even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# 
and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to 
voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may 
also have to be added to correct for pitch.
  I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the altissimo.It has 
been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very 
soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he 
did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@yahoo.com  wrote:


From: zoot51@yahoo.com 
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM


  

The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau 
coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small 
vent in the key.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "tenorman1952" 
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass 
clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned 
from an orchestral clarinetist.

For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left 
hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second 
register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to 
the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the 
saxophone.  Those are very small holes.

The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the 
hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, 
or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd 
register came out easily.

Paul C.




------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links














  


------------------------------------

Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

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To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links

  That is not always the case. For every jazz player like DeFranco who plays on a huge facing, there is  a Ken Peploski or Eddie Daniels who could swap mouthpieces with Larry Combs or Charles Neidich with no one noticing the difference.  It all comes down to whatever works for you. In my case right now I have a rather open Otto Link slant sig and a rather closed Eddie Daniels  and they both work great for me. Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@... <zoot51@...> wrote:

From: zoot51@... <zoot51@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:53 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Of course, what and how you play makes a difference.  Classical players generally use close facings and stiff reeds.  Jazz players prefer more open/soft setups which make note bending and vibrato easier.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry





-----Original Message-----


From: peterhepplewhite@...


Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:02:20 


To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>


Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo





I have always preferred softer reeds with medium to open tip,


It is time to move on and go for slightly harder reed, and maybe try 


some new mouthpieces


Thanks for all your info


The Clarinet never fails to ba a rewarding challenge!





Peter








-----Original Message-----


From: Peter Deley <pfdeley@...>


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:43


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo























 Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the 


idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on 


to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to 


them.


  This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher book, 


Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of 


overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this 


 book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we 


need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or 


other books.


  Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the 


even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# 


and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to 


voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may 


also have to be added to correct for pitch.


  I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the altissimo.It has 


been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very 


soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he 


did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter





--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@... <zoot51@...> wrote:








From: zoot51@... <zoot51@...>


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM








  





The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau 


coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small 


vent in the key.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry





-----Original Message-----


From: "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...>


Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07


To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>


Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo








Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass 


clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned 


from an orchestral clarinetist.





For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left 


hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second 


register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to 


the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the 


saxophone.  Those are very small holes.





The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the 


hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, 


or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd 


register came out easily.





Paul C.














------------------------------------





Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 


MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com





Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 


the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.





To see and modify your groups, go to 


http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links












































  








------------------------------------





Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com





Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.





To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links













    
     

    
    


 



  











      

As always, any individual's mileage may vary, but the general rule is valid.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Deley 
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:08:07 
To: 
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

  That is not always the case. For every jazz player like DeFranco who plays on a huge facing, there is  a Ken Peploski or Eddie Daniels who could swap mouthpieces with Larry Combs or Charles Neidich with no one noticing the difference.  It all comes down to whatever works for you. In my case right now I have a rather open Otto Link slant sig and a rather closed Eddie Daniels  and they both work great for me. Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@yahoo.com  wrote:

From: zoot51@yahoo.com 
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:53 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Of course, what and how you play makes a difference.  Classical players generally use close facings and stiff reeds.  Jazz players prefer more open/soft setups which make note bending and vibrato easier.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry





-----Original Message-----


From: peterhepplewhite@aol.com


Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:02:20 


To: 


Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo





I have always preferred softer reeds with medium to open tip,


It is time to move on and go for slightly harder reed, and maybe try 


some new mouthpieces


Thanks for all your info


The Clarinet never fails to ba a rewarding challenge!





Peter








-----Original Message-----


From: Peter Deley 


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:43


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo























 Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the 


idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on 


to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to 


them.


  This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher book, 


Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of 


overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this 


 book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we 


need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or 


other books.


  Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the 


even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# 


and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to 


voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may 


also have to be added to correct for pitch.


  I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the altissimo.It has 


been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very 


soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he 


did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter





--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@yahoo.com  wrote:








From: zoot51@yahoo.com 


Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM








  





The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau 


coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small 


vent in the key.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry





-----Original Message-----


From: "tenorman1952" 


Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07


To: 


Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com


Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo








Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass 


clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned 


from an orchestral clarinetist.





For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left 


hand is lifted off the tonehole.  It is, in effect, acting as a second 


register vent.  But look at the size of that hole!  And compare it to 


the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the 


saxophone.  Those are very small holes.





The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the 


hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, 


or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge.  The the 3rd 


register came out easily.





Paul C.














------------------------------------





Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 


MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com





Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 


the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.





To see and modify your groups, go to 


http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links












































  








------------------------------------





Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com





Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.





To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo! Groups Links













    
     

    
    


 



  











      

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gregwier" <gregwier@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Paul, you may not be aware of it, but the bass clarinet top left hand key is set up for half hole fingering by moving the left hand index finger onto the key extension. 

Yes, and that is why half holing the left index finger is not a whacky idea.  ;-)

Even cave men can do it.  

Paul

   This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:

From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 4:21 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gregwier" <gregwier@...> wrote:

>

> 

> Paul, you may not be aware of it, but the bass clarinet top left hand key is set up for half hole fingering by moving the left hand index finger onto the key extension. 



Yes, and that is why half holing the left index finger is not a whacky idea.  ;-)



Even cave men can do it.  



Paul





    
     

    
    


 



  











      

The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

 

  


   This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter




 




  _____  

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> .
SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.

Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>  Try free scan! 

Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...> wrote:

From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter


   


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Actually, in the higher registers the partials on clarinet are complete. The higher one goes, the more various bore and other perturbations trump the impedances of the straight cylinder. This is one of the reasons that the higher registers sound so different from the lowest register on the
 clarinet. 
   
  Joe Wolfe wrote a paper in which it was discovered that (for sax at least), the configuration of the upstream resonator (the oral cavity) is vital to producing altissimos. The paper is here:
   
  http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/SaxTract.html
   
  Toby

Peter Deley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
                     Adding venting holes on either clarinet or sax just reinforces the idea that altissimo on either instrument  is a matter of  latching on to the higher partials and learning what one has to do to hold on to them.    This brings us  to the invaluable  first part of the Rascher
 book, Top Tones for Saxophone, in which he takes us through a study of overtones. Of course we all have learned that the second  part of this  book in which he gives us his fingerings is not useful and that  we need to find another source of fingerings such as the  Ted Nash or other books.
    Altissimo  is the same on clarinet except of course that  all the even partials are missing. It is obvious that low A , third E, high C# and high G are all the same note.. You just have to figure out how to voice them,  and adding vent holes sure helps a lot. Extra fingers may also have to be
 added to correct for pitch.
    I suppose a soft reed  is harder to control in the altissimo.It has been said that Cannonball never played altissimo because he used a very soft reed. Of course with a sound and concept as incredible as his, he did not need to mess with high notes.  Peter

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, zoot51@... <zoot51@...> wrote:
  
From: zoot51@... <zoot51@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 8:19 AM

        The bass clarinet is DESIGNED to do exactly that, with the plateau coming off the left index finger key to allow opening just the small vent in the key.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...>
Sender: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:06:07 
To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo


Peter, I'm not much on clarinet (though I do much better on bass clarinet), but I can play the 3rd register easily with a tip I learned from an orchestral clarinetist.

For the third register of the clarinet the index finger of the left hand is lifted off the tonehole. It is, in effect, acting as a second register vent. But look at the size of that hole! And compare it to the regular clarinet register vent, or the octave vents of the saxophone. Those are very
 small holes.

The tip shown to me was to not lift the finger all the way off the hole, but to just roll it down a little, to "half hole" the tonehole, or better, to just barely crack it open at the top edge. The the 3rd register came out easily.

Paul C.




------------------------------------

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I tend to prefer such a setup, too.  My regular jazz mouthpiece is a Selmer C85 115.  I usually use a Legere plastic reed on it, since it in used primarily as a double, sitting on the stand for long periods while I play tenor.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

--- On Mon, 12/20/10, peterhepplewhite@... <peterhepplewhite@...> wrote:


From: peterhepplewhite@... <peterhepplewhite@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 4:02 PM


I have always preferred softer reeds with medium to open tip,
It is time to move on and go for slightly harder reed, and maybe try 
some new mouthpieces
Thanks for all your info
The Clarinet never fails to ba a rewarding challenge!

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Deley <pfdeley@yahoo.com>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:43
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo






      

With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece.

KenL

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter
> 
> --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
> Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter
> 
> 
>    
> 
> 
> I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
> SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.
> 
> Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@...> wrote:
>
> With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 
> 
> KenL
>

> I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.
 Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?
 As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)

Eddie


> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:
> > 
> > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> >     
> >       
> >       
> >       The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
> > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter
> > 
> > 
> >    
> > 
> > 
> > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
> > SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.
> > 
> > Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
> >
>

Hi Eddie,

As for the last sentence, if you are a clarinet player, you have favorite reeds. I have seen players buy new reeds to test a new mouthpiece. Bad plan. After you use a favorite reed and have chosen a next mouthpiece, and playing it a while, you may find thet it plays even better with reeds other than your prior favorites.
As for the lip effect on harmonics, the lip is not near any of the reed vibrations or it would not vibrate at all, but the whole reed affects the harmonics. Notice the popularity of the Rovner ligature which gives a different sound than the metal ligatures. Notice that if you wet the whole reed it plays differently than if you just wet the tip.
Anyone can figure out a way to play the high notes and I applaud your ability to play them. With using the thinnest part of lower lip on the reed, I can play a high 'D' one and a half octaves above the staff 'without changing the embouchure' to get there. I change voicing yes, but not the embouchure.

KenL


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Edward McLean" <ed@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@> wrote:
> >
> > With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 
> > 
> > KenL
> >
> 
> > I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.
>  Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?
>  As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)
> 
> Eddie
> 
> 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter
> > > 
> > > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:
> > > 
> > > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>
> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > >     
> > >       
> > >       
> > >       The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter
> > > 
> > > 
> > >    
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
> > > SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.
> > > 
> > > Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
> > >
> >
>

Clarinet depends on the player's lips to damp the natural resonances of the reed so that you don't get a squeak. This is different than sax because of the different bore shape. After that, it is completely up to the player's sensitivity and control. There is no correct lip shape or size. As the
 girls say, it's not how big they are, it's how you use them ;-)

Edward McLean <ed@...> wrote:                                           
 
 --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@...> wrote:
 >
 > With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has
 to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 
 > 
 > KenL
 >
 
 > I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and
 racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.
  Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?
  As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)
 
 Eddie
 
 > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:
 > >
 > > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic! $B%D(B Peter
 > > 
 > > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:
 > > 
 > > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>
 > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
 > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
 > > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >  
 > > $B%D(B
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >   
 > > 
 > > 
 > >     
 > >       
 > >       
 > >       The best explanation of squeaking I$Bc`QW(Be ever heard. Thanks.Tony F. $B%D(BFrom: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley
 > > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM
 > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
 > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo $B%D%D(B $B%D%D(B This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat $B%D(Btable that leaks air or a loose cork on the $B%D(Bmouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics
 but much harder to get the fundamental! $B%D(B Peter
 > > 
 > > 
 > >  $B%D(B 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.
 > > SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.
 > > 
 > > Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!
 > >
 >
 
 
      
                 
                 
 

  About black players avoiding the clarinet, what of Don Byron, John Carter, Victor Goines, Alvin Batiste, Jimmy Hamilton, Eric Dolphy, Buddy Collette, to name a few?  In the swing era Buster Bailey stands out as a giant among both black and white players.
  Peter

--- On Wed, 12/22/10, KenL <kenlphotos@...> wrote:

From: KenL <kenlphotos@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 5:38 AM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Hi Eddie,



As for the last sentence, if you are a clarinet player, you have favorite reeds. I have seen players buy new reeds to test a new mouthpiece. Bad plan. After you use a favorite reed and have chosen a next mouthpiece, and playing it a while, you may find thet it plays even better with reeds other than your prior favorites.

As for the lip effect on harmonics, the lip is not near any of the reed vibrations or it would not vibrate at all, but the whole reed affects the harmonics. Notice the popularity of the Rovner ligature which gives a different sound than the metal ligatures. Notice that if you wet the whole reed it plays differently than if you just wet the tip.

Anyone can figure out a way to play the high notes and I applaud your ability to play them. With using the thinnest part of lower lip on the reed, I can play a high 'D' one and a half octaves above the staff 'without changing the embouchure' to get there. I change voicing yes, but not the embouchure.



KenL



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Edward McLean" <ed@...> wrote:

>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@> wrote:

> >

> > With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 

> > 

> > KenL

> >

> 

> > I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.

>  Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?

>  As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)

> 

> Eddie

> 

> 

> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter

> > > 

> > > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:

> > > 

> > > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>

> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > >  

> > >  

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > >   

> > > 

> > > 

> > >     

> > >       

> > >       

> > >       The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley

> > > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM

> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter

> > > 

> > > 

> > >    

> > > 

> > > 

> > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.

> > > SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.

> > > 

> > > Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!

> > >

> >

>





    
     

    
    


 



  











      

Hi Ken,  You are right . Altissimo  is not  through  embouchure changes  but in voicing changes.. I have witnessed the late 1st chair player in the Montreal Symphony, Emilio Iacurto, demonstrate this  by playing a chromatic run from low E to the C almost four octaves above  with no change in his embouchure at all.   It is only in jazz that we change embouchure and it is done for expressive reasons such as falls, subtone etc, not to actually get a desired note.  A good mouthpiece is one that allows you to do this, along with a responsive reed of course.   Peter.

--- On Wed, 12/22/10, KenL <kenlphotos@verizon.net> wrote:

From: KenL <kenlphotos@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 5:38 AM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Hi Eddie,



As for the last sentence, if you are a clarinet player, you have favorite reeds. I have seen players buy new reeds to test a new mouthpiece. Bad plan. After you use a favorite reed and have chosen a next mouthpiece, and playing it a while, you may find thet it plays even better with reeds other than your prior favorites.

As for the lip effect on harmonics, the lip is not near any of the reed vibrations or it would not vibrate at all, but the whole reed affects the harmonics. Notice the popularity of the Rovner ligature which gives a different sound than the metal ligatures. Notice that if you wet the whole reed it plays differently than if you just wet the tip.

Anyone can figure out a way to play the high notes and I applaud your ability to play them. With using the thinnest part of lower lip on the reed, I can play a high 'D' one and a half octaves above the staff 'without changing the embouchure' to get there. I change voicing yes, but not the embouchure.



KenL



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Edward McLean" <ed@...> wrote:

>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@> wrote:

> >

> > With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 

> > 

> > KenL

> >

> 

> > I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.

>  Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?

>  As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)

> 

> Eddie

> 

> 

> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic!   Peter

> > > 

> > > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:

> > > 

> > > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>

> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > >  

> > >  

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > >   

> > > 

> > > 

> > >     

> > >       

> > >       

> > >       The best explanation of squeaking I’ve ever heard. Thanks.Tony F.  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Deley

> > > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM

> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

> > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo       This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat  table that leaks air or a loose cork on the  mouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental!   Peter

> > > 

> > > 

> > >    

> > > 

> > > 

> > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.

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  I think the only difference between clarinet and sax embouchure is the angle of the instrument and the firmer embouchure required due to  a smaller reed. This is similar to the difference between a bari and a soprano sax embouchure.  The other difference is in the pressure required to send the air down the tube. The clarinet being a cylinder , requires more  than the sax. With a clarinet you need to push the air down whereas a with a sax you  " chase " the air down the tube.  I think that once the right embouchure is learned, most of the squeaks one gets on clarinet are due to faulty fingering rather than anything the player does at the mouthpiece end.    Whether the clarinet is a "blown" or a "fingered" instrument is an argument that has been going on for a long time in the clarinet world. Players obviously need to focus on the deficiencies of either of these  parts of their technique.   Peter

--- On Wed, 12/22/10, kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...> wrote:

From: kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 3:23 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      Clarinet depends on the player's lips to damp the natural resonances of the reed so that you don't get a squeak. This is different than sax because of the different bore shape. After that, it is completely up to the player's sensitivity and control. There is no correct lip shape or size. As the
 girls say, it's not how big they are, it's how you use them ;-)



Edward McLean <ed@...> wrote:                                      

 

 --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "KenL" <kenlphotos@...> wrote:

 >

 > With all of this altissimo information, do not minimize the embouchure's contribution. Any more than the red part of the lips on the reed is absorbing the high harmonics. If a player plays this way, he (she) has chosen mouthpieces and reeds that work that way. The altissimo then suffers and
 has to be dealt with in inefficient ways. It is always best to choose a mouthpiece with the best embouchure and best reed and then choose a reed with the best embouchure and best mouthpiece. 

 > 

 > KenL

 >

 

 > I can make no sense of the last sentence of your post KenL, but regarding lip effect on harmonics, the lip is further from the high harmomic producing area of the reed and I would have thought, have less effect on this range, than on mid and low tones. Sax doublers with swollen lower lip and
 racial types with naturally thick lips would have a hard time, according to your hypothesis.

  Is this why clarinet players who can play high harmonics with ease have been thin lipped European types. Artie Shaw/Allen Vache spring to mind and the Afro races seem to ignore the the clarinet today, in favour of the Saxophone?

  As a swollen lipped doubler,I can still hit those highs though.(^_^)

 

 Eddie

 

 > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Peter Deley <pfdeley@> wrote:

 > >

 > > Yes, a squeak is merely a miscalculated harmonic! ツ Peter

 > > 

 > > --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@> wrote:

 > > 

 > > From: Tony Fairbridge <tfairbri@>

 > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo

 > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

 > > Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 5:56 PM

 > > 

 > > 

 > > 

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 > > ツ

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 > >       

 > >       The best explanation of squeaking I窶况e ever heard. Thanks.Tony F. ツFrom: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
 Deley

 > > Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 12:10 PM

 > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

 > > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Clarinet m/p for the altissimo ツツ ツツ This can finally bring us back to mouthpieces, because having an unflat ツtable that leaks air or a loose cork on the ツmouthpiece or neck is very similar to half-holing in that it makes it easier to get the
 harmonics but much harder to get the fundamental! ツ Peter

 > > 

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 > >  ツ 

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 > > 

 > > I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.

 > > SPAMfighter has removed 739 of my spam emails to date.

 > > 

 > > Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan!

 > >

 >

 

                        


 


    
     

    
    


 



  











      

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pjhmusic2004" <peterhepplewhite@...> wrote:
>
> I am trying my best to work on the high end of the 3rd Register, and would like advice on mouthpiece / Reed set up
> 
> I know that there are several fingerings that can be used in the 3rd Register
> I have the Thomas Ridenour Clarinet fingerings book, which gives many combinations of alternate fingerings.
> 
> I was wondering if there were any characteristics of the mouthpiece that might influence the results. Does the Length of lay or tip opening affect the altissimo success rate?  or is it more the Reed?  or Player?
> 
> I am playing on a Yamaha 450 clarinet with Selmer c85 120 mouthpiece and 2 1/2 vandoren reeds
> 
> I am able to play high G and A but I am not having much success going higher (I tend to practise these notes when the neighbours are out)
> 
> Kind Regards, Peter
>
> You have had much good advice from many experts here Peter. but as this is a mouthpiece site I was hoping someone would answer your question regarding the effect of the MPC itself.
Some classical players might consider your mouthpiece a little open and more suited to jazz playing, but then again, a little close for that style by others.
One of the easist MPC's I have found to get altissimo on, was a Vandoren 5RV. This has a close tip (1.05) and a long lay.
My own preference is for a short lay and open tip, as I find this suits various Jazz styles and does not seem to compromise altissimo.
I think your reed choice of Vandoren with its thin tip is probably a good choice but I would have tried a #3 with your tip opening.

regards, Eddie.