A quick couple of questions - 

If you want to make the window uniform on both sides, but one side is different than the other, then what's the best way to go about doing this in terms of tools and/or technique? When this problem has arisen for me, I've tried to just even out with window shape with files, (this usually also means some table undercutting after that to get the area under the table evened out again too). However, I've found it to be pretty difficult to get the window shape to be uniform just using my small needle files and a 4" regular half round file, and much more so with metal mouthpieces than hard rubber. Do you guys have any suggestions for this? 

Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.

Thanks guys.

I use a Dremel Stylus model to rough shape, and then finish with  
files.....the Stylus is very ergonomic and easy to control


On Dec 6, 2010, at 6:43 AM, Matt wrote:

> A quick couple of questions -
>
> If you want to make the window uniform on both sides, but one side  
> is different than the other, then what's the best way to go about  
> doing this in terms of tools and/or technique? When this problem has  
> arisen for me, I've tried to just even out with window shape with  
> files, (this usually also means some table undercutting after that  
> to get the area under the table evened out again too). However, I've  
> found it to be pretty difficult to get the window shape to be  
> uniform just using my small needle files and a 4" regular half round  
> file, and much more so with metal mouthpieces than hard rubber. Do  
> you guys have any suggestions for this?
>
> Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/ 
> or the thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have  
> one, but am guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty  
> jaggedly, which is why I'd also guess that this wouldn't work.  
> However, just thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks guys.
>
>
> 

Sounds like you could use some riffler files.  These are bent curved files.  I 
have a couple of sets from Micro-Mark.  Once set is fairly coarse and the other 
is fine.  I could not find any in-between years ago when I was looking for 
them.   Not all sizes in the set are useful.  I just use 3 of the coarser ones.  
The files are shown in some of the rework photos on my site.  


I may try some Valtitan (hard metal) "0" cuts.  I prefer "00" cuts. Also these 
look a bit long. Shapes 611, 663, and 681 look useful.  
http://www.artcotools.com/valtitan-rifflers-pr-18038.html

A rotary tool set-up is useful if you end up doing a lot of mouthpiece work.  
They do not leave a jagged surface but they can leave grooves and craters if you 
leave the tool in one spot too long.  Since they remove material fast, they can 
do a lot of damage fast.  They can also jump on you due to the rotary motion.  
Like a wheel falling off a car at high speed.  But no guts, no glory.




________________________________
From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 7:43:02 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Window shaping technique/side rail cutting question

  
A quick couple of questions - 

If you want to make the window uniform on both sides, but one side is different 
than the other, then what's the best way to go about doing this in terms of 
tools and/or technique? When this problem has arisen for me, I've tried to just 
even out with window shape with files, (this usually also means some table 
undercutting after that to get the area under the table evened out again too). 
However, I've found it to be pretty difficult to get the window shape to be 
uniform just using my small needle files and a 4" regular half round file, and 
much more so with metal mouthpieces than hard rubber. Do you guys have any 
suggestions for this? 


Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the 
thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am 
guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also 
guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.

Thanks guys.





      

I appreciate the help. Nice, I'll definitely look into the riffler files. Been needing to get some new files anyway as mine are wearing out, so I'll try to pick some of these up too in the near future.
Yes, it seems that the Valtitan "00" works a lot better especially on metal pieces. Strange that "00" doesn't seem to be available as a riffler file cut option. 
I'll look for those coarse and fine cut rifflers on the micromark site. Thanks for the tips.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you could use some riffler files.  These are bent curved files.  I 
> have a couple of sets from Micro-Mark.  Once set is fairly coarse and the other 
> is fine.  I could not find any in-between years ago when I was looking for 
> them.   Not all sizes in the set are useful.  I just use 3 of the coarser ones.  
> The files are shown in some of the rework photos on my site.  
> 
> 
> I may try some Valtitan (hard metal) "0" cuts.  I prefer "00" cuts. Also these 
> look a bit long. Shapes 611, 663, and 681 look useful.  
> http://www.artcotools.com/valtitan-rifflers-pr-18038.html
> 
> A rotary tool set-up is useful if you end up doing a lot of mouthpiece work.  
> They do not leave a jagged surface but they can leave grooves and craters if you 
> leave the tool in one spot too long.  Since they remove material fast, they can 
> do a lot of damage fast.  They can also jump on you due to the rotary motion.  
> Like a wheel falling off a car at high speed.  But no guts, no glory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 7:43:02 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Window shaping technique/side rail cutting question
> 
>   
> A quick couple of questions - 
> 
> If you want to make the window uniform on both sides, but one side is different 
> than the other, then what's the best way to go about doing this in terms of 
> tools and/or technique? When this problem has arisen for me, I've tried to just 
> even out with window shape with files, (this usually also means some table 
> undercutting after that to get the area under the table evened out again too). 
> However, I've found it to be pretty difficult to get the window shape to be 
> uniform just using my small needle files and a 4" regular half round file, and 
> much more so with metal mouthpieces than hard rubber. Do you guys have any 
> suggestions for this? 
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the 
> thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am 
> guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also 
> guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks guys.
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:

> Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks guys.

I keep Dremel (or other) power tools well away from mouthpieces.  There is no way to control it by hand, and it will walk across other areas and tear up a lot of mouthpiece in a fraction of a second.  Then you get to call your customer and say, "Ooops!  Sorry, man."

Paul

before I approach a mouthpiece with a power tool (I use them VERY  
SPARINGLY), I apply a generous layer of tape over all areas I do NOT  
intend to cut!


On Dec 7, 2010, at 4:30 PM, tenorman1952 wrote:

>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...>  
> wrote:
>
> > Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window  
> and/or the thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't  
> have one, but am guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty  
> jaggedly, which is why I'd also guess that this wouldn't work.  
> However, just thought I'd ask.
> >
> > Thanks guys.
>
> I keep Dremel (or other) power tools well away from mouthpieces.  
> There is no way to control it by hand, and it will walk across other  
> areas and tear up a lot of mouthpiece in a fraction of a second.  
> Then you get to call your customer and say, "Ooops! Sorry, man."
>
> Paul
>
>
> 

I do use a Dremel with diamond bits to cut a channel just behind the tip rail of metal mpcs, and to get rid of edges in the chamber and under the window. But Paul is right, it can easily make a mess, and I would not do it on any mpcs but my own.

Toby

tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:                                           
 
 --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:
 
 > Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.
 > 
 > Thanks guys.
 
 I keep Dremel (or other) power tools well away from mouthpieces.  There is no way to control it by hand, and it will walk across other areas and tear up a lot of mouthpiece in a fraction of a second.  Then you get to call your customer and say, "Ooops!  Sorry, man."
 
 Paul
 
 
      
                 
                 
 

Hey Mojo, I'm going to get a set of rifflers. I just wanted to make sure to get the right ones, will these be similar to the extra-coarse ones you use? http://www.micromark.com/12-PIECE-DOUBLE-ENDED-RIFFLER-FILEandRASP-SET,7935.html
Just wanted to make sure to get the right ones since I don't know exactly what to look for. I'd try the Valtitans, but wish they came in "00" instead of just "0". 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you could use some riffler files.  These are bent curved files.  I 
> have a couple of sets from Micro-Mark.  Once set is fairly coarse and the other 
> is fine.  I could not find any in-between years ago when I was looking for 
> them.   Not all sizes in the set are useful.  I just use 3 of the coarser ones.  
> The files are shown in some of the rework photos on my site.  
> 
> 
> I may try some Valtitan (hard metal) "0" cuts.  I prefer "00" cuts. Also these 
> look a bit long. Shapes 611, 663, and 681 look useful.  
> http://www.artcotools.com/valtitan-rifflers-pr-18038.html
> 
> A rotary tool set-up is useful if you end up doing a lot of mouthpiece work.  
> They do not leave a jagged surface but they can leave grooves and craters if you 
> leave the tool in one spot too long.  Since they remove material fast, they can 
> do a lot of damage fast.  They can also jump on you due to the rotary motion.  
> Like a wheel falling off a car at high speed.  But no guts, no glory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 7:43:02 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Window shaping technique/side rail cutting question
> 
>   
> A quick couple of questions - 
> 
> If you want to make the window uniform on both sides, but one side is different 
> than the other, then what's the best way to go about doing this in terms of 
> tools and/or technique? When this problem has arisen for me, I've tried to just 
> even out with window shape with files, (this usually also means some table 
> undercutting after that to get the area under the table evened out again too). 
> However, I've found it to be pretty difficult to get the window shape to be 
> uniform just using my small needle files and a 4" regular half round file, and 
> much more so with metal mouthpieces than hard rubber. Do you guys have any 
> suggestions for this? 
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone here use their flex shaft to shape the window and/or the 
> thicker part of the side rails near the window? I don't have one, but am 
> guessing that the spinning bit might cut pretty jaggedly, which is why I'd also 
> guess that this wouldn't work. However, just thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks guys.
>

I think that is the set I have, but I only use 3 of them out of the set: round, 
flat and ~half round.  There are a bunch of V-shapes I think that were not 
useful.  I also purchased some blue plastic handles for them from Micro Mark.  
They work so-so.  Easier on the hands but the files pop out of the handle 
sometimes.

I ordered some Valtitan Rifflers in "0".  I'll let you know how they are 
compared to what I have been using.




________________________________
From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 8:15:23 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
question

  
Hey Mojo, I'm going to get a set of rifflers. I just wanted to make sure to get 
the right ones, will these be similar to the extra-coarse ones you use? 
http://www.micromark.com/12-PIECE-DOUBLE-ENDED-RIFFLER-FILEandRASP-SET,7935.html
Just wanted to make sure to get the right ones since I don't know exactly what 
to look for. I'd try the Valtitans, but wish they came in "00" instead of just 
"0". 


      

Cool, that sounds great.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I think that is the set I have, but I only use 3 of them out of the set: round, 
> flat and ~half round.  There are a bunch of V-shapes I think that were not 
> useful.  I also purchased some blue plastic handles for them from Micro Mark.  
> They work so-so.  Easier on the hands but the files pop out of the handle 
> sometimes.
> 
> I ordered some Valtitan Rifflers in "0".  I'll let you know how they are 
> compared to what I have been using.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 8:15:23 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> question
> 
>   
> Hey Mojo, I'm going to get a set of rifflers. I just wanted to make sure to get 
> the right ones, will these be similar to the extra-coarse ones you use? 
> http://www.micromark.com/12-PIECE-DOUBLE-ENDED-RIFFLER-FILEandRASP-SET,7935.html
> Just wanted to make sure to get the right ones since I don't know exactly what 
> to look for. I'd try the Valtitans, but wish they came in "00" instead of just 
> "0".
>

Hey Mojo,

I was just wondering if you'd gotten those Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut yet that you'd mentioned, and if so, how you think they compare to the Micromark "coarse" set. I found a set of riffler "rasp" type files the other day in a woodworking shop that I passed by, but didn't get them because the file teeth on them were more like "spikes" compared to the more regular type of file teeth that you'd find on needle files. Thanks. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:
>
> Cool, that sounds great.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> >
> > I think that is the set I have, but I only use 3 of them out of the set: round, 
> > flat and ~half round.  There are a bunch of V-shapes I think that were not 
> > useful.  I also purchased some blue plastic handles for them from Micro Mark.  
> > They work so-so.  Easier on the hands but the files pop out of the handle 
> > sometimes.
> > 
> > I ordered some Valtitan Rifflers in "0".  I'll let you know how they are 
> > compared to what I have been using.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Matt <mattmarantz86@>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, December 7, 2010 8:15:23 PM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> > question
> > 
> >   
> > Hey Mojo, I'm going to get a set of rifflers. I just wanted to make sure to get 
> > the right ones, will these be similar to the extra-coarse ones you use? 
> > http://www.micromark.com/12-PIECE-DOUBLE-ENDED-RIFFLER-FILEandRASP-SET,7935.html
> > Just wanted to make sure to get the right ones since I don't know exactly what 
> > to look for. I'd try the Valtitans, but wish they came in "00" instead of just 
> > "0".
> >
>

I do now have 3 Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut.  They are about 2X large 
to use for most mouthpiece work.  They wont fit inside a most sop sax MP 
chambers and barely fit in an alto.  I think I will occasionally use them to do 
some baffle work, but they are too large for side wall shaping.  The "0" cut 
does not look too bad. 

The Micro-Mark coarse riffler files I have sound similar to the "spikes" you 
saw.  They do seem to hold up well but they leave a very rough surface.


________________________________
From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 12:17:00 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
question

  
Hey Mojo,

I was just wondering if you'd gotten those Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut 
yet that you'd mentioned, and if so, how you think they compare to the Micromark 
"coarse" set. I found a set of riffler "rasp" type files the other day in a 
woodworking shop that I passed by, but didn't get them because the file teeth on 
them were more like "spikes" compared to the more regular type of file teeth 
that you'd find on needle files. Thanks. 


      

I bought a set of no-name rifflers that were too wide for mouthpiece work,
but I carefully ground them on a wheel, taking care not to let them get hot.
They work just fine now.

Tony F.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Bradbury
Sent: Monday, 27 December 2010 1:21 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting
question

 

  

I do now have 3 Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut.  They are about 2X
large to use for most mouthpiece work.  They wont fit inside a most sop sax
MP chambers and barely fit in an alto.  I think I will occasionally use them
to do some baffle work, but they are too large for side wall shaping.  The
"0" cut does not look too bad. 

 

The Micro-Mark coarse riffler files I have sound similar to the "spikes" you
saw.  They do seem to hold up well but they leave a very rough surface.

_


  _____  

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
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Hi Mojo,

Thanks so much for the info - interesting and very helpful too. I didn't realize that those spiked rifflers would be ok, that's good to hear as I'd much rather buy locally anyway. The ones I saw looked very much like these: http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D2862-Medium-Riffler-8-Piece/dp/B0000DD334/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293416558&sr=8-1
I suppose that these would be helpful for roughing out the shape of the window, and then you could clean it up with some smoother files and sandpaper. It's just been too hard trying to get the whole window normal even looking with just a half-round file. Thanks again for the help. 

Tony, that last post wouldn't load for me on my computer... You can see the first sentence and a half or so, and it sounded like great info, but then when you click on it there doesn't seem to be a message there... Would love to hear what you had to say about that, sounded like a good idea grinding the shapes to work right if they're too big. Best,

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I do now have 3 Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut.  They are about 2X large 
> to use for most mouthpiece work.  They wont fit inside a most sop sax MP 
> chambers and barely fit in an alto.  I think I will occasionally use them to do 
> some baffle work, but they are too large for side wall shaping.  The "0" cut 
> does not look too bad. 
> 
> The Micro-Mark coarse riffler files I have sound similar to the "spikes" you 
> saw.  They do seem to hold up well but they leave a very rough surface.
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 12:17:00 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> question
> 
>   
> Hey Mojo,
> 
> I was just wondering if you'd gotten those Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut 
> yet that you'd mentioned, and if so, how you think they compare to the Micromark 
> "coarse" set. I found a set of riffler "rasp" type files the other day in a 
> woodworking shop that I passed by, but didn't get them because the file teeth on 
> them were more like "spikes" compared to the more regular type of file teeth 
> that you'd find on needle files. Thanks.
>

Hi Matt,

It was a short post, here it is again.

 

"I bought a set of no-name rifflers that were too wide for mouthpiece work,
but I carefully ground them on a wheel, taking care not to let them get hot.
They work just fine now."

 

I carefully thinned and narrowed them, leaving the working surface intact.
If they're double sided, you lose one surface, so you may need to buy a few
spares.

Regards,

Tony F.

 

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Monday, 27 December 2010 1:26 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting
question

 

 

Tony, that last post wouldn't load for me on my computer... You can see the
first sentence and a half or so, and it sounded like great info, but then
when you click on it there doesn't seem to be a message there... Would love
to hear what you had to say about that, sounded like a good idea grinding
the shapes to work right if they're too big. Best,

Matt





  _____  

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 759 of my spam emails to date.

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Try free scan! 

That picture on Amazon looks different than the set I have from Micro-Mark.  I 
do not know if they would be similar or not to work with.




________________________________
From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 9:25:39 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
question

  
Hi Mojo,

Thanks so much for the info - interesting and very helpful too. I didn't realize 
that those spiked rifflers would be ok, that's good to hear as I'd much rather 
buy locally anyway. The ones I saw looked very much like these: 
http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D2862-Medium-Riffler-8-Piece/dp/B0000DD334/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293416558&sr=8-1

I suppose that these would be helpful for roughing out the shape of the window, 
and then you could clean it up with some smoother files and sandpaper. It's just 
been too hard trying to get the whole window normal even looking with just a 
half-round file. Thanks again for the help. 


Tony, that last post wouldn't load for me on my computer... You can see the 
first sentence and a half or so, and it sounded like great info, but then when 
you click on it there doesn't seem to be a message there... Would love to hear 
what you had to say about that, sounded like a good idea grinding the shapes to 
work right if they're too big. Best,

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I do now have 3 Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut.  They are about 2X large 
>
> to use for most mouthpiece work.  They wont fit inside a most sop sax MP 
> chambers and barely fit in an alto.  I think I will occasionally use them to do 
>
> some baffle work, but they are too large for side wall shaping.  The "0" cut 
> does not look too bad. 
> 
> The Micro-Mark coarse riffler files I have sound similar to the "spikes" you 
> saw.  They do seem to hold up well but they leave a very rough surface.
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 12:17:00 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> question
> 
>   
> Hey Mojo,
> 
> I was just wondering if you'd gotten those Valtitan riffler files in the "0" 
>cut 
>
> yet that you'd mentioned, and if so, how you think they compare to the 
>Micromark 
>
> "coarse" set. I found a set of riffler "rasp" type files the other day in a 
> woodworking shop that I passed by, but didn't get them because the file teeth 
>on 
>
> them were more like "spikes" compared to the more regular type of file teeth 
> that you'd find on needle files. Thanks.
>





      

Thanks Tony for that info.
Mojo, ok, that's kinda what I figured... Those spikes on the Amazon ones are so far apart, I doubt they'd work very well for this... I'll probably hold out for the micromark set, or maybe give them a call. Thanks again.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> That picture on Amazon looks different than the set I have from Micro-Mark.  I 
> do not know if they would be similar or not to work with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matt <mattmarantz86@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 9:25:39 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> question
> 
>   
> Hi Mojo,
> 
> Thanks so much for the info - interesting and very helpful too. I didn't realize 
> that those spiked rifflers would be ok, that's good to hear as I'd much rather 
> buy locally anyway. The ones I saw looked very much like these: 
> http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D2862-Medium-Riffler-8-Piece/dp/B0000DD334/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293416558&sr=8-1
> 
> I suppose that these would be helpful for roughing out the shape of the window, 
> and then you could clean it up with some smoother files and sandpaper. It's just 
> been too hard trying to get the whole window normal even looking with just a 
> half-round file. Thanks again for the help. 
> 
> 
> Tony, that last post wouldn't load for me on my computer... You can see the 
> first sentence and a half or so, and it sounded like great info, but then when 
> you click on it there doesn't seem to be a message there... Would love to hear 
> what you had to say about that, sounded like a good idea grinding the shapes to 
> work right if they're too big. Best,
> 
> Matt
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> >
> > I do now have 3 Valtitan riffler files in the "0" cut.  They are about 2X large 
> >
> > to use for most mouthpiece work.  They wont fit inside a most sop sax MP 
> > chambers and barely fit in an alto.  I think I will occasionally use them to do 
> >
> > some baffle work, but they are too large for side wall shaping.  The "0" cut 
> > does not look too bad. 
> > 
> > The Micro-Mark coarse riffler files I have sound similar to the "spikes" you 
> > saw.  They do seem to hold up well but they leave a very rough surface.
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Matt <mattmarantz86@>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 12:17:00 AM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Window shaping technique/side rail cutting 
> > question
> > 
> >   
> > Hey Mojo,
> > 
> > I was just wondering if you'd gotten those Valtitan riffler files in the "0" 
> >cut 
> >
> > yet that you'd mentioned, and if so, how you think they compare to the 
> >Micromark 
> >
> > "coarse" set. I found a set of riffler "rasp" type files the other day in a 
> > woodworking shop that I passed by, but didn't get them because the file teeth 
> >on 
> >
> > them were more like "spikes" compared to the more regular type of file teeth 
> > that you'd find on needle files. Thanks.
> >
>

I have found the best suppliers of files both riffler and straight to be jewelry product suppliers and dental supply catalogues. They have a huge selection of many kinds and brands of files. You can buy them in sets or individually.


Mike Vaccaro
www.MandMmouthpieces.com


This e-mail may contain information that is privileged or confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify us immediately.

Well, the riffler files I ordered earlier this month arrived this weekend, and I actually had a chance to use them on a job for someone this weekend. This particular mouthpiece had a window that was not nearly as long as the "U" shape of the reed vamp, so during the reface I lengthened the window "U" shape to match the length of the reed vamp "U" shape. This really seemed to make a pretty big difference in response, especially in the low end. One thing that happens is a big wall builds up under the table, but this just needs some extra undercutting and it's easily taken care of. After the mouthpiece was finished to about .061" and 38L (a 19mm facing length), I tried it out and it responded much better in the low end. Actually, I also tried it before finishing the reface, but after lengthening the window (just to see what difference the window lengthening made on its own), and this really did make quite a difference in response even before the curve work was done. 
So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference. However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length? What I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the same length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That does seem to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening (takes a while to do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just wondering if you should go even further a little past the reed vamp for best results, or how to determine the appropriate length for the window. I've noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have longer windows than modern pieces.  
Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Vaccaro" <mike@...> wrote:
>
> I have found the best suppliers of files both riffler and straight to be jewelry product suppliers and dental supply catalogues. They have a huge selection of many kinds and brands of files. You can buy them in sets or individually.
> 
> 
> Mike Vaccaro
> www.MandMmouthpieces.com
> 
> 
> This e-mail may contain information that is privileged or confidential.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify us immediately.
>

I think you are on point here Matt.  I'm looking at an old Link Tonemaster, Florida era Tone Edge and an old Brilhart 'Hard Rubber' piece that I have here right now and the lengths of the windows are not any longer than the vamp of a reed.  I'm of the opinion that modern pieces where the window extends further into the table is a bit of a gimmick.

m

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:
>
> 
> So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference. However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length? What I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the same length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That does seem to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening (takes a while to do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just wondering if you should go even further a little past the reed vamp for best results, or how to determine the appropriate length for the window. I've noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have longer windows than modern pieces.  
> Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
> 
> Matt
> 

So, "secondary windows" are a bunch of hooeey?!?  ;-)

On 1/22/2011 12:50 PM, Matthew wrote:
>
> I think you are on point here Matt. I'm looking at an old Link 
> Tonemaster, Florida era Tone Edge and an old Brilhart 'Hard Rubber' 
> piece that I have here right now and the lengths of the windows are 
> not any longer than the vamp of a reed. I'm of the opinion that modern 
> pieces where the window extends further into the table is a bit of a 
> gimmick.
>
> m
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some 
> searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long 
> enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference. 
> However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length? What 
> I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the same 
> length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That does seem 
> to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening (takes a while to 
> do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just wondering if you 
> should go even further a little past the reed vamp for best results, 
> or how to determine the appropriate length for the window. I've 
> noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have longer windows than 
> modern pieces.
> > Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> 

Thanks very much for your reply Matt, I really appreciate it and that sounds good. So, it sounds like that's a good target to shoot for - I guess the problem I was having before was that sometimes the windows on some blanks would be relatively short, much shorter than the reed vamp, and that does seem to make a negative difference. So cool, the reed vamp length sounds like a good window length target. 
Thanks for the info! Best,

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...> wrote:
>
> I think you are on point here Matt.  I'm looking at an old Link Tonemaster, Florida era Tone Edge and an old Brilhart 'Hard Rubber' piece that I have here right now and the lengths of the windows are not any longer than the vamp of a reed.  I'm of the opinion that modern pieces where the window extends further into the table is a bit of a gimmick.
> 
> m
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference. However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length? What I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the same length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That does seem to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening (takes a while to do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just wondering if you should go even further a little past the reed vamp for best results, or how to determine the appropriate length for the window. I've noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have longer windows than modern pieces.  
> > Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
> > 
> > Matt
> >
>

that is contrary to my experience......have you tried it YOURSELF?


On Jan 22, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Robert W. Smith wrote:

> So, "secondary windows" are a bunch of hooeey?!?  ;-)
>
> On 1/22/2011 12:50 PM, Matthew wrote:
>
>>
>> I think you are on point here Matt. I'm looking at an old Link  
>> Tonemaster, Florida era Tone Edge and an old Brilhart 'Hard Rubber'  
>> piece that I have here right now and the lengths of the windows are  
>> not any longer than the vamp of a reed. I'm of the opinion that  
>> modern pieces where the window extends further into the table is a  
>> bit of a gimmick.
>>
>> m
>>
>> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...>  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some  
>> searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long  
>> enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference.  
>> However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length?  
>> What I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the  
>> same length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That  
>> does seem to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening  
>> (takes a while to do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just  
>> wondering if you should go even further a little past the reed vamp  
>> for best results, or how to determine the appropriate length for  
>> the window. I've noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have  
>> longer windows than modern pieces.
>> > Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 

For the record, I've tried the Rovner/Steve Wilkerson long window and 
the Jody Jazz "2 window" pieces.  I hated the Rovner (glad they're gone) 
and thought the Jody Jazz piece was nice.  After several days with it I 
decided to stay with my older "single" window Jody piece.  The great 
thing about running a repair/pro shop is that I get to try everything I 
stock.  Plus trying stuff at the shows.


On 1/22/2011 6:03 PM, STEVE GOODSON wrote:
>
> that is contrary to my experience......have you tried it YOURSELF?
>
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Robert W. Smith wrote:
>
>> So, "secondary windows" are a bunch of hooeey?!?  ;-)
>>
>> On 1/22/2011 12:50 PM, Matthew wrote:
>>
>>> I think you are on point here Matt. I'm looking at an old Link 
>>> Tonemaster, Florida era Tone Edge and an old Brilhart 'Hard Rubber' 
>>> piece that I have here right now and the lengths of the windows are 
>>> not any longer than the vamp of a reed. I'm of the opinion that 
>>> modern pieces where the window extends further into the table is a 
>>> bit of a gimmick.
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>> --- InMouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
>>> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>, 
>>> "Matt"<mattmarantz86@...>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > So, I have a question about window lengthening - I did some 
>>> searching and it has been said here that once the window gets long 
>>> enough, extending it further doesn't make too much difference. 
>>> However, I'm wondering, what is a good target for window length? 
>>> What I've been doing is just matching the window "U" shape to the 
>>> same length of the reed vamp "U" shape, as mentioned above. That 
>>> does seem to help and often this is quite a bit of lengthening 
>>> (takes a while to do it by hand with files!), but I guess I'm just 
>>> wondering if you should go even further a little past the reed vamp 
>>> for best results, or how to determine the appropriate length for the 
>>> window. I've noticed that older mouthpieces a lot of times have 
>>> longer windows than modern pieces.
>>> > Thanks for your help! It's much appreciated.
>>> >
>>> > Matt
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
> 

 I've had both an alto and a tenor Rovner  extended window mouth in SS. They both played rather well, with focused sound and good response.  Their brightness was just not to my liking but that had nothing to do with the longer window.              They were both snapped up  for a good price when I put them up for auction on ebay  .  Peter


      

Yeah, I tried hard to like them, but the sound just didn't suit my 
ears.  Glad you did well on Ebay with yours.

On 1/22/2011 9:06 PM, Peter Deley wrote:
>
>  I've had both an alto and a tenor Rovner  extended window mouth in 
> SS. They both played rather well, with focused sound and good 
> response.  Their brightness was just not to my liking but that had 
> nothing to do with the longer window.
>    They were both snapped up  for a good price when I put them up for 
> auction on ebay  .
>   Peter
>
>
>