Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating mouthpieces in metal or resin using casting methods?  I do not really have a need, but others might and it is an interesting subject.

To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great deal
of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface
mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to
casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage pieces in
the process to be in a position to teach anybody.
I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and forget
about metal.
Greetings,


On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari <kwbradbury@...> wrote:

>
>
> Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating mouthpieces in
> metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need, but
> others might and it is an interesting subject.
>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

I just did a search and there are several Yahoo Groups discussing lost wax and resin casting methods.  Mostly for jewelry and figurines but I would think what they do would apply to mouthpieces too.

Some interesting information on the topic on Theo Wanne's site:

http://www.theowanne.com/resources/ammaDevelopment.php

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I just did a search and there are several Yahoo Groups discussing lost wax and resin casting methods.  Mostly for jewelry and figurines but I would think what they do would apply to mouthpieces too.
>

I've found this nice article: "Molded mouthpieces vs. Rod Rubber mouthpieces"... it is relevant to the topic and worth a read...
http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded-mouthpieces-vs-rod-rubber-mouthpieces/

About Mouthpiece makers that work with rods, he forgot to mention Ken Barry (Saxscape). Ken does a superb work, I have 3 saxscape models and they all play great. Ken works mainly with Delrin rods.

About materials, I should disagree with the author. Materials DO make a difference in the sound and completely change the feel & character. Wood, Metal, Delrin, Ebonite... it's just not the same. Even between Ebonite types... why would some mouthpiece makers (like Bradford Behn) invest time & effort to search his own Ebonite formula?

Sakshama, if you are interested into making mouthpieces out of Ebonite rods, here's the address, they sell Ebonite for Berg Larsen a.o. 
http://sem-ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang=2 


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
>
> To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great deal
> of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface
> mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to
> casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage pieces in
> the process to be in a position to teach anybody.
> I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and forget
> about metal.
> Greetings,
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating mouthpieces in
> > metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need, but
> > others might and it is an interesting subject.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sakshama
> 
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>

I read the first article of Clark Fobes saying he hand finishes 8000
mouthpieces a year. Wooow....
I'm happy to do one every 2-3 days.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:31 PM, night000cruiser
<night000cruiser@...>wrote:

>
>
> I've found this nice article: "Molded mouthpieces vs. Rod Rubber
> mouthpieces"... it is relevant to the topic and worth a read...
>
> http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded-mouthpieces-vs-rod-rubber-mouthpieces/
>
> About Mouthpiece makers that work with rods, he forgot to mention Ken Barry
> (Saxscape). Ken does a superb work, I have 3 saxscape models and they all
> play great. Ken works mainly with Delrin rods.
>
> About materials, I should disagree with the author. Materials DO make a
> difference in the sound and completely change the feel & character. Wood,
> Metal, Delrin, Ebonite... it's just not the same. Even between Ebonite
> types... why would some mouthpiece makers (like Bradford Behn) invest time &
> effort to search his own Ebonite formula?
>
> Sakshama, if you are interested into making mouthpieces out of Ebonite
> rods, here's the address, they sell Ebonite for Berg Larsen a.o.
> http://sem-ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang=2
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> >
> > To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great
> deal
> > of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface
> > mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to
> > casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage pieces
> in
> > the process to be in a position to teach anybody.
> > I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and forget
> > about metal.
> > Greetings,
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating mouthpieces
> in
> > > metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need, but
> > > others might and it is an interesting subject.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sakshama
> >
> > www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

Such an interesting subject. If you go on Youtube and just type in something like "lost wax casting" there are some really cool and detailed videos about the process of making molds for copying jewelry or small statues or other things like that. However, what seems pretty complicated to me is making a mold for a complex model like a mouthpiece, where you have to preserve the external shape and the internal chamber that would also need to be part of the mold. Theo's site had some info about how to deal with removing the original model from the mold after you form it around the mouthpiece, such as making the mold with a small dowel in the (center, I'm assuming) of the chamber of the mouthpiece so that the rubber in the chamber will collapse on itself allowing you to pull the mouthpiece out of the mold after the rubber is formed around it, but it still seems pretty tricky. Plus, I guess if you were copying a mouthpiece, it might turn out a little smaller than the original. I don't know how much, but if it's 6-10% like it says on Theo's site, that's quite a bit smaller! Not only would you have to probably bore out the mouthpiece a bit to fit it on the same neck cork as other mouthpieces for a given saxophone neck, but the sound and tuning of the mouthpieces would probably be affected a little bit too, right? 
Making a mold for brass casting seems a lot more complicated, more steps involved until you end up with a mold that can handle the temps of pouring molten brass into it.
However, since there are people who probably make molds for a living, I wonder how expensive it would be to have molds made of some really nice mouthpieces for resin/brass casting. I'm sure it is very costly, but it would be interesting to know how much it would be. Of course, it would be kind of scary to give them a vintage Link to make a mold for, hopefully the subjects aren't normally damaged in the process of making the molds. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
>
> I read the first article of Clark Fobes saying he hand finishes 8000
> mouthpieces a year. Wooow....
> I'm happy to do one every 2-3 days.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:31 PM, night000cruiser
> <night000cruiser@...>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I've found this nice article: "Molded mouthpieces vs. Rod Rubber
> > mouthpieces"... it is relevant to the topic and worth a read...
> >
> > http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded-mouthpieces-vs-rod-rubber-mouthpieces/
> >
> > About Mouthpiece makers that work with rods, he forgot to mention Ken Barry
> > (Saxscape). Ken does a superb work, I have 3 saxscape models and they all
> > play great. Ken works mainly with Delrin rods.
> >
> > About materials, I should disagree with the author. Materials DO make a
> > difference in the sound and completely change the feel & character. Wood,
> > Metal, Delrin, Ebonite... it's just not the same. Even between Ebonite
> > types... why would some mouthpiece makers (like Bradford Behn) invest time &
> > effort to search his own Ebonite formula?
> >
> > Sakshama, if you are interested into making mouthpieces out of Ebonite
> > rods, here's the address, they sell Ebonite for Berg Larsen a.o.
> > http://sem-ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang=2
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great
> > deal
> > > of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface
> > > mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to
> > > casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage pieces
> > in
> > > the process to be in a position to teach anybody.
> > > I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and forget
> > > about metal.
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating mouthpieces
> > in
> > > > metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need, but
> > > > others might and it is an interesting subject.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sakshama
> > >
> > > www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sakshama
> 
> www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
>

Subjects are damaged in the process. I have lost 3 expensive pieces and few
where damaged but I could repair them.

On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Matt <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:

>
>
> Such an interesting subject. If you go on Youtube and just type in
> something like "lost wax casting" there are some really cool and detailed
> videos about the process of making molds for copying jewelry or small
> statues or other things like that. However, what seems pretty complicated to
> me is making a mold for a complex model like a mouthpiece, where you have to
> preserve the external shape and the internal chamber that would also need to
> be part of the mold. Theo's site had some info about how to deal with
> removing the original model from the mold after you form it around the
> mouthpiece, such as making the mold with a small dowel in the (center, I'm
> assuming) of the chamber of the mouthpiece so that the rubber in the chamber
> will collapse on itself allowing you to pull the mouthpiece out of the mold
> after the rubber is formed around it, but it still seems pretty tricky.
> Plus, I guess if you were copying a mouthpiece, it might turn out a little
> smaller than the original. I don't know how much, but if it's 6-10% like it
> says on Theo's site, that's quite a bit smaller! Not only would you have to
> probably bore out the mouthpiece a bit to fit it on the same neck cork as
> other mouthpieces for a given saxophone neck, but the sound and tuning of
> the mouthpieces would probably be affected a little bit too, right?
> Making a mold for brass casting seems a lot more complicated, more steps
> involved until you end up with a mold that can handle the temps of pouring
> molten brass into it.
> However, since there are people who probably make molds for a living, I
> wonder how expensive it would be to have molds made of some really nice
> mouthpieces for resin/brass casting. I'm sure it is very costly, but it
> would be interesting to know how much it would be. Of course, it would be
> kind of scary to give them a vintage Link to make a mold for, hopefully the
> subjects aren't normally damaged in the process of making the molds.
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> >
> > I read the first article of Clark Fobes saying he hand finishes 8000
> > mouthpieces a year. Wooow....
> > I'm happy to do one every 2-3 days.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:31 PM, night000cruiser
> > <night000cruiser@...>wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've found this nice article: "Molded mouthpieces vs. Rod Rubber
> > > mouthpieces"... it is relevant to the topic and worth a read...
> > >
> > >
> http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded-mouthpieces-vs-rod-rubber-mouthpieces/
> > >
> > > About Mouthpiece makers that work with rods, he forgot to mention Ken
> Barry
> > > (Saxscape). Ken does a superb work, I have 3 saxscape models and they
> all
> > > play great. Ken works mainly with Delrin rods.
> > >
> > > About materials, I should disagree with the author. Materials DO make a
> > > difference in the sound and completely change the feel & character.
> Wood,
> > > Metal, Delrin, Ebonite... it's just not the same. Even between Ebonite
> > > types... why would some mouthpiece makers (like Bradford Behn) invest
> time &
> > > effort to search his own Ebonite formula?
> > >
> > > Sakshama, if you are interested into making mouthpieces out of Ebonite
> > > rods, here's the address, they sell Ebonite for Berg Larsen a.o.
> > > http://sem-ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang=2
> > >
> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com<MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com><MouthpieceWork%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great
> > > deal
> > > > of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface
> > > > mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to
> > > > casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage
> pieces
> > > in
> > > > the process to be in a position to teach anybody.
> > > > I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and
> forget
> > > > about metal.
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating
> mouthpieces
> > > in
> > > > > metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need,
> but
> > > > > others might and it is an interesting subject.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sakshama
> > > >
> > > > www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sakshama
> >
> > www. sakshamamouthpieces.com
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Sakshama

www. sakshamamouthpieces.com

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I would think that, with a process that changes the dimensions this much, the
precision of the final product is not nearly good enough to perfectly
reproduce a mouthpiece. Or even guarantee that you'd get something playable
(somewhere between a reproduction and a blank).� Even much smaller
discrepancies would result in substantial differences in playability and
sound.  
  
It's a long, uphill climb to go from working by hand to industrial production
(hats off to those who have done this!).� I don't imagine I'll ever do it, but
I love getting all this information.� Thanks, all.  
  
Dan T  
  
On 11/24/2010 11:57 PM, Sakshama Koloski wrote:

> �
>
> Subjects are damaged in the process. I have lost 3 expensive pieces and few
> where damaged but I could repair them.  
>  
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Matt
> <[mattmarantz86@...](mailto:mattmarantz86@...)> wrote:  
>
>

>> �

>>

>> Such an interesting subject. If you go on Youtube and just type in
something like "lost wax casting" there are some really cool and detailed
videos about the process of making molds for copying jewelry or small statues
or other things like that. However, what seems pretty complicated to me is
making a mold for a complex model like a mouthpiece, where you have to
preserve the external shape and the internal chamber that would also need to
be part of the mold. Theo's site had some info about how to deal with removing
the original model from the mold after you form it around the mouthpiece, such
as making the mold with a small dowel in the (center, I'm assuming) of the
chamber of the mouthpiece so that the rubber in the chamber will collapse on
itself allowing you to pull the mouthpiece out of the mold after the rubber is
formed around it, but it still seems pretty tricky. Plus, I guess if you were
copying a mouthpiece, it might turn out a little smaller than the original. I
don't know how much, but if it's 6-10% like it says on Theo's site, that's
quite a bit smaller! Not only would you have to probably bore out the
mouthpiece a bit to fit it on the same neck cork as other mouthpieces for a
given saxophone neck, but the sound and tuning of the mouthpieces would
probably be affected a little bit too, right?  
>  Making a mold for brass casting seems a lot more complicated, more steps
> involved until you end up with a mold that can handle the temps of pouring
> molten brass into it.  
>  However, since there are people who probably make molds for a living, I
> wonder how expensive it would be to have molds made of some really nice
> mouthpieces for resin/brass casting. I'm sure it is very costly, but it
> would be interesting to know how much it would be. Of course, it would be
> kind of scary to give them a vintage Link to make a mold for, hopefully the
> subjects aren't normally damaged in the process of making the molds.  
>
>>

>>  
>  \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> Sakshama Koloski [](mailto:sakshama1@...) wrote:  
>  >  
>
>>

>> > I read the first article of Clark Fobes saying he hand finishes 8000  
>  > mouthpieces a year. Wooow....  
>  > I'm happy to do one every 2-3 days.  
>  >  
>  > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:31 PM, night000cruiser  
>
>>

>> > [](mailto:night000cruiser@...)wrote:

>>

>>  
>  >  
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > > I've found this nice article: "Molded mouthpieces vs. Rod Rubber  
>  > > mouthpieces"... it is relevant to the topic and worth a read...  
>  > >  
>  > > [http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded- mouthpieces-vs-
> rod-rubber-mouthpieces/](http://clarkwfobes.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/molded-
> mouthpieces-vs-rod-
rubber-mouthpieces/)  
>  > >  
>  > > About Mouthpiece makers that work with rods, he forgot to mention Ken
> Barry  
>  > > (Saxscape). Ken does a superb work, I have 3 saxscape models and they
> all  
>  > > play great. Ken works mainly with Delrin rods.  
>  > >  
>  > > About materials, I should disagree with the author. Materials DO make a  
>  > > difference in the sound and completely change the feel & character.
> Wood,  
>  > > Metal, Delrin, Ebonite... it's just not the same. Even between Ebonite  
>  > > types... why would some mouthpiece makers (like Bradford Behn) invest
> time &  
>  > > effort to search his own Ebonite formula?  
>  > >  
>  > > Sakshama, if you are interested into making mouthpieces out of Ebonite  
>  > > rods, here's the address, they sell Ebonite for Berg Larsen a.o.  
>  > > [http://sem-
> ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang;=2](http://sem-
ebonite.com/cms/front_content.php?client=1&changelang=2)  
>  > >  
>
>>

>> > > \\--- In
[MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)
40yahoogroups.com>,

>>

>>  
>  > > Sakshama Koloski  wrote:  
>  > > >  
>  > > > To do metal casting properly is a separate subject that require great  
>  > > deal  
>  > > > of dedication and effort probably greater than learning to reface  
>  > > > mouthpieces. It could well be a subject of another group dedicated to  
>  > > > casting. Myself I do so many mistakes and actually losing vintage
> pieces  
>  > > in  
>  > > > the process to be in a position to teach anybody.  
>  > > > I would love to learn how to make rubber pieces myself though and
> forget  
>  > > > about metal.  
>  > > > Greetings,  
>  > > >  
>  > > >  
>  > > > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:21 AM, MojoBari  wrote:  
>  > > >  
>  > > > >  
>  > > > >  
>  > > > > Anyone care to share some tips and resources for creating
> mouthpieces  
>  > > in  
>  > > > > metal or resin using casting methods? I do not really have a need,
> but  
>  > > > > others might and it is an interesting subject.  
>  > > > >  
>  > > > >  
>  > > > >  
>  > > >  
>  > > >  
>  > > >  
>  > > > \\--  
>  > > > Sakshama  
>  > > >  
>  > > > www. [sakshamamouthpieces.com](http://sakshamamouthpieces.com)  
>  > > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > \\--  
>  > Sakshama  
>  >  
>  > www. [sakshamamouthpieces.com](http://sakshamamouthpieces.com)  
>  >  
>  
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>  \\--  
>  Sakshama  
>  
>  www. [sakshamamouthpieces.com](http://sakshamamouthpieces.com)  
>  
>  
>

If you figure on a 40 hour work week, this would be 15 minutes per mouthpiece 
max for one person.




________________________________
From: Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 7:28:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Lost wax and/or resin casting

  
I read the first article of Clark Fobes saying he hand finishes 8000 mouthpieces 
a year. Wooow....
I'm happy to do one every 2-3 days. 


      

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I just did a search and there are several Yahoo Groups discussing lost wax and resin casting methods.  Mostly for jewelry and figurines but I would think what they do would apply to mouthpieces too.
>

Model railroaders also do a lot of resin casting.  Materials can be found at Micromark.com.

Paul C.