Hey Guys,

I've been working on learning refacing since about February. Mojo and the rest of the guys on this site and elsewhere have been extremely helpful so far. I've been working a HR Link for tenor recently and wanted to share a few pictures and a sound sample. I also have a couple of a questions about it. This piece started out as a 7*, and then it was adjusted to a few varying openings/curves while I tried out different settings to see how different stuff played. Ended up setting it up pretty closely to the mouthpiece I usually play, a metal Link 7*. So, after flattening the table and setting the tip opening to .104", the curve was set at a length of 48 (24mm) with a radial facing. I tried some elliptical facings recently and didn't care for them, and also the piece I'm used to has a radial facing already, so that's what this one got. 

I tried to make the tip rail as thin as possible, and also filed the baffle down a good bit. I find that the mouthpiece responds better when the area right behind the tip rail is smoothed out. I think I may have taken a little bit too much out of the baffle on this one though as it's darker than I'm used to. I also widened the tip window, undercut the table, and tried to smooth out the factory-undercut sidewalls. I don't know if that last step produced a positive or negative effect, and would probably try it with the factory-cut sidewalls left in next time around before making any adjustments there.

I wanted to post this on SOTW too and use their webspace for the mp3, but their site seems to be down right now, at least it was a few minutes ago. So, I posted an audio clip of this mouthpiece on my own site for just a little while (I'll probably take it down over the weekend). You can hear it at: http://mattmarantz.com/html/listen.php It's the first track which is titled "Mouthpiece Work Demo - HR Link 7* - What's New" and you just click directly on it to hear it. Hope you like it. 

Also, I posted some pictures of it on the photo bucket website. These can be seen at: http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu309/birdlives1955/ and they are the ones titled "Link .104" 

As you can see, the inside is still kinda rough (didn't really take the time to clean it up yet), but I did try to clean up the outside. The method I used was to clamp a reed on the mouthpiece with a ligature (to protect the facing and give you a template for the work) and then file the edges of the rails to shape from the outside. Then, I moved to sandpaper, and then steel wool, and then rubbing compound and polish. The only thing is, I found it was darn near impossible to get close enough to the edges of the facing to be able to clean up those areas adequately. As you can see, there are still rough spots close to the edges of the facing. I didn't want to try sanding/steel wool near the facing without the reed clamped onto the mouthpiece for fear of damaging the rails/table. 

So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 

Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. This is something that has baffled me (no pun intended) since beginning to work on mouthpieces. Do you guys normally use a reed to protect the facing, or do you just finish-sand those areas by hand?

Cool, anyways, if you have any other tips about the work, that'd be great! Hoping to improve, and I have a fair amount of time these days to work on this stuff, so any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.

Matt

You know what, never mind on that question, just realized masking tape works great for this. Thanks,

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "mattmarantz86" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Guys,
> 
> I've been working on learning refacing since about February. Mojo and the rest of the guys on this site and elsewhere have been extremely helpful so far. I've been working a HR Link for tenor recently and wanted to share a few pictures and a sound sample. I also have a couple of a questions about it. This piece started out as a 7*, and then it was adjusted to a few varying openings/curves while I tried out different settings to see how different stuff played. Ended up setting it up pretty closely to the mouthpiece I usually play, a metal Link 7*. So, after flattening the table and setting the tip opening to .104", the curve was set at a length of 48 (24mm) with a radial facing. I tried some elliptical facings recently and didn't care for them, and also the piece I'm used to has a radial facing already, so that's what this one got. 
> 
> I tried to make the tip rail as thin as possible, and also filed the baffle down a good bit. I find that the mouthpiece responds better when the area right behind the tip rail is smoothed out. I think I may have taken a little bit too much out of the baffle on this one though as it's darker than I'm used to. I also widened the tip window, undercut the table, and tried to smooth out the factory-undercut sidewalls. I don't know if that last step produced a positive or negative effect, and would probably try it with the factory-cut sidewalls left in next time around before making any adjustments there.
> 
> I wanted to post this on SOTW too and use their webspace for the mp3, but their site seems to be down right now, at least it was a few minutes ago. So, I posted an audio clip of this mouthpiece on my own site for just a little while (I'll probably take it down over the weekend). You can hear it at: http://mattmarantz.com/html/listen.php It's the first track which is titled "Mouthpiece Work Demo - HR Link 7* - What's New" and you just click directly on it to hear it. Hope you like it. 
> 
> Also, I posted some pictures of it on the photo bucket website. These can be seen at: http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu309/birdlives1955/ and they are the ones titled "Link .104" 
> 
> As you can see, the inside is still kinda rough (didn't really take the time to clean it up yet), but I did try to clean up the outside. The method I used was to clamp a reed on the mouthpiece with a ligature (to protect the facing and give you a template for the work) and then file the edges of the rails to shape from the outside. Then, I moved to sandpaper, and then steel wool, and then rubbing compound and polish. The only thing is, I found it was darn near impossible to get close enough to the edges of the facing to be able to clean up those areas adequately. As you can see, there are still rough spots close to the edges of the facing. I didn't want to try sanding/steel wool near the facing without the reed clamped onto the mouthpiece for fear of damaging the rails/table. 
> 
> So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 
> 
> Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. This is something that has baffled me (no pun intended) since beginning to work on mouthpieces. Do you guys normally use a reed to protect the facing, or do you just finish-sand those areas by hand?
> 
> Cool, anyways, if you have any other tips about the work, that'd be great! Hoping to improve, and I have a fair amount of time these days to work on this stuff, so any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Matt
>

Matt, to clean up the outside of the mouthpiece I realized that one of the greatest tools ever made for mouthpiece work is found in girly stores...yea, beauty supply shops.  Go to Sally's Beauty Shop (I believe its a national chain) or another store  that sell every product known to womankind for finger nails and buy yourself some dense foam based nail files.  They come in different grits as well as shapes.  For removing loads of material the curved black rough one is about as perfect of a shape as you would find for inside rail work.  It curves nicely along the floor too so you dont scrape out areas you dont want to hit.

For the outside use the straight ones.  You dont need heavy grit.  Go light and then extra fine.  After that hit it up with very fine steel wool.  I find there is no reason to tape off the rails.  You can clearly see if you hit them...at least Ive never felt the need to mask them.  Last of course, hit them with polish.  I use a wheel and compound on a table top drill press.  Just have good light dont apply too much pressure, too much speed, or let the piece jump out of your hand.  You may just get a mouthpiece exploding against the wall! 

Looking good!
Phil  


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@...> wrote:
>
> You know what, never mind on that question, just realized masking tape works great for this. Thanks,
> 
> Matt
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "mattmarantz86" <mattmarantz86@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Guys,
> > 
> > I've been working on learning refacing since about February. Mojo and the rest of the guys on this site and elsewhere have been extremely helpful so far. I've been working a HR Link for tenor recently and wanted to share a few pictures and a sound sample. I also have a couple of a questions about it. This piece started out as a 7*, and then it was adjusted to a few varying openings/curves while I tried out different settings to see how different stuff played. Ended up setting it up pretty closely to the mouthpiece I usually play, a metal Link 7*. So, after flattening the table and setting the tip opening to .104", the curve was set at a length of 48 (24mm) with a radial facing. I tried some elliptical facings recently and didn't care for them, and also the piece I'm used to has a radial facing already, so that's what this one got. 
> > 
> > I tried to make the tip rail as thin as possible, and also filed the baffle down a good bit. I find that the mouthpiece responds better when the area right behind the tip rail is smoothed out. I think I may have taken a little bit too much out of the baffle on this one though as it's darker than I'm used to. I also widened the tip window, undercut the table, and tried to smooth out the factory-undercut sidewalls. I don't know if that last step produced a positive or negative effect, and would probably try it with the factory-cut sidewalls left in next time around before making any adjustments there.
> > 
> > I wanted to post this on SOTW too and use their webspace for the mp3, but their site seems to be down right now, at least it was a few minutes ago. So, I posted an audio clip of this mouthpiece on my own site for just a little while (I'll probably take it down over the weekend). You can hear it at: http://mattmarantz.com/html/listen.php It's the first track which is titled "Mouthpiece Work Demo - HR Link 7* - What's New" and you just click directly on it to hear it. Hope you like it. 
> > 
> > Also, I posted some pictures of it on the photo bucket website. These can be seen at: http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu309/birdlives1955/ and they are the ones titled "Link .104" 
> > 
> > As you can see, the inside is still kinda rough (didn't really take the time to clean it up yet), but I did try to clean up the outside. The method I used was to clamp a reed on the mouthpiece with a ligature (to protect the facing and give you a template for the work) and then file the edges of the rails to shape from the outside. Then, I moved to sandpaper, and then steel wool, and then rubbing compound and polish. The only thing is, I found it was darn near impossible to get close enough to the edges of the facing to be able to clean up those areas adequately. As you can see, there are still rough spots close to the edges of the facing. I didn't want to try sanding/steel wool near the facing without the reed clamped onto the mouthpiece for fear of damaging the rails/table. 
> > 
> > So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 
> > 
> > Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. This is something that has baffled me (no pun intended) since beginning to work on mouthpieces. Do you guys normally use a reed to protect the facing, or do you just finish-sand those areas by hand?
> > 
> > Cool, anyways, if you have any other tips about the work, that'd be great! Hoping to improve, and I have a fair amount of time these days to work on this stuff, so any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > Matt
> >
>

Hey Phil, thanks a lot for the advice! Those sound like great tools, I'll definitely look into the foam based nail files. I don't know if I'll be able to muster up the nerve to go into Sally's Beauty Shop by myself though... Might have to ask a date, ha. The info about the buffing wheel sounds really good too. I agree, exploding mouthpieces are never a good thing! I'm looking into some sort of polishing/buffing system, sure would be nice to be able to shine them up after they're done. I've seen where Ted K uses a felt polishing bit on the end of his flex shaft system, as well as the buffing wheel. Bought some felt bits tonight and a friend is going to let me borrow a dremel tomorrow to see how that works for polishing. Might not work nearly as well as a buffing wheel, but we'll see. Thanks again for the helpful info Phil.

Cheers,

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sigmund451" <sigmund451@...> wrote:
>
> Matt, to clean up the outside of the mouthpiece I realized that one of the greatest tools ever made for mouthpiece work is found in girly stores...yea, beauty supply shops.  Go to Sally's Beauty Shop (I believe its a national chain) or another store  that sell every product known to womankind for finger nails and buy yourself some dense foam based nail files.  They come in different grits as well as shapes.  For removing loads of material the curved black rough one is about as perfect of a shape as you would find for inside rail work.  It curves nicely along the floor too so you dont scrape out areas you dont want to hit.
> 
> For the outside use the straight ones.  You dont need heavy grit.  Go light and then extra fine.  After that hit it up with very fine steel wool.  I find there is no reason to tape off the rails.  You can clearly see if you hit them...at least Ive never felt the need to mask them.  Last of course, hit them with polish.  I use a wheel and compound on a table top drill press.  Just have good light dont apply too much pressure, too much speed, or let the piece jump out of your hand.  You may just get a mouthpiece exploding against the wall! 
> 
> Looking good!
> Phil  
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mattmarantz86@> wrote:
> >
> > You know what, never mind on that question, just realized masking tape works great for this. Thanks,
> > 
> > Matt
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "mattmarantz86" <mattmarantz86@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Guys,
> > > 
> > > I've been working on learning refacing since about February. Mojo and the rest of the guys on this site and elsewhere have been extremely helpful so far. I've been working a HR Link for tenor recently and wanted to share a few pictures and a sound sample. I also have a couple of a questions about it. This piece started out as a 7*, and then it was adjusted to a few varying openings/curves while I tried out different settings to see how different stuff played. Ended up setting it up pretty closely to the mouthpiece I usually play, a metal Link 7*. So, after flattening the table and setting the tip opening to .104", the curve was set at a length of 48 (24mm) with a radial facing. I tried some elliptical facings recently and didn't care for them, and also the piece I'm used to has a radial facing already, so that's what this one got. 
> > > 
> > > I tried to make the tip rail as thin as possible, and also filed the baffle down a good bit. I find that the mouthpiece responds better when the area right behind the tip rail is smoothed out. I think I may have taken a little bit too much out of the baffle on this one though as it's darker than I'm used to. I also widened the tip window, undercut the table, and tried to smooth out the factory-undercut sidewalls. I don't know if that last step produced a positive or negative effect, and would probably try it with the factory-cut sidewalls left in next time around before making any adjustments there.
> > > 
> > > I wanted to post this on SOTW too and use their webspace for the mp3, but their site seems to be down right now, at least it was a few minutes ago. So, I posted an audio clip of this mouthpiece on my own site for just a little while (I'll probably take it down over the weekend). You can hear it at: http://mattmarantz.com/html/listen.php It's the first track which is titled "Mouthpiece Work Demo - HR Link 7* - What's New" and you just click directly on it to hear it. Hope you like it. 
> > > 
> > > Also, I posted some pictures of it on the photo bucket website. These can be seen at: http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu309/birdlives1955/ and they are the ones titled "Link .104" 
> > > 
> > > As you can see, the inside is still kinda rough (didn't really take the time to clean it up yet), but I did try to clean up the outside. The method I used was to clamp a reed on the mouthpiece with a ligature (to protect the facing and give you a template for the work) and then file the edges of the rails to shape from the outside. Then, I moved to sandpaper, and then steel wool, and then rubbing compound and polish. The only thing is, I found it was darn near impossible to get close enough to the edges of the facing to be able to clean up those areas adequately. As you can see, there are still rough spots close to the edges of the facing. I didn't want to try sanding/steel wool near the facing without the reed clamped onto the mouthpiece for fear of damaging the rails/table. 
> > > 
> > > So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 
> > > 
> > > Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. This is something that has baffled me (no pun intended) since beginning to work on mouthpieces. Do you guys normally use a reed to protect the facing, or do you just finish-sand those areas by hand?
> > > 
> > > Cool, anyways, if you have any other tips about the work, that'd be great! Hoping to improve, and I have a fair amount of time these days to work on this stuff, so any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.
> > > 
> > > Matt
> > >
> >
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Clean up the outside of the mouthpiece before you're completely done with the
facing and tip. The final passes across the sandpaper that you'll need to
finish the facing will make sure that the tip and side rails are distinct
(just in case you accidentally rounded off one of the edges a little bit).  
  
Dan T  
  
On 11/7/2010 2:36 AM, Matt wrote:

> Hey Phil, thanks a lot for the advice! Those sound like great tools, I'll
> definitely look into the foam based nail files. I don't know if I'll be able
> to muster up the nerve to go into Sally's Beauty Shop by myself though...
> Might have to ask a date, ha. The info about the buffing wheel sounds really
> good too. I agree, exploding mouthpieces are never a good thing! I'm looking
> into some sort of polishing/buffing system, sure would be nice to be able to
> shine them up after they're done. I've seen where Ted K uses a felt
> polishing bit on the end of his flex shaft system, as well as the buffing
> wheel. Bought some felt bits tonight and a friend is going to let me borrow
> a dremel tomorrow to see how that works for polishing. Might not work nearly
> as well as a buffing wheel, but we'll see. Thanks again for the helpful info
> Phil.  
>  
>  Cheers,  
>  
>  Matt  
>  
>  \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> "sigmund451" [](mailto:sigmund451@...) wrote:  
>  >  
>  > Matt, to clean up the outside of the mouthpiece I realized that one of
> the greatest tools ever made for mouthpiece work is found in girly
> stores...yea, beauty supply shops. Go to Sally's Beauty Shop (I believe its
> a national chain) or another store that sell every product known to
> womankind for finger nails and buy yourself some dense foam based nail
> files. They come in different grits as well as shapes. For removing loads of
> material the curved black rough one is about as perfect of a shape as you
> would find for inside rail work. It curves nicely along the floor too so you
> dont scrape out areas you dont want to hit.  
>  >  
>  > For the outside use the straight ones. You dont need heavy grit. Go light
> and then extra fine. After that hit it up with very fine steel wool. I find
> there is no reason to tape off the rails. You can clearly see if you hit
> them...at least Ive never felt the need to mask them. Last of course, hit
> them with polish. I use a wheel and compound on a table top drill press.
> Just have good light dont apply too much pressure, too much speed, or let
> the piece jump out of your hand. You may just get a mouthpiece exploding
> against the wall!  
>  >  
>  > Looking good!  
>  > Phil  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> "Matt"  wrote:  
>  > >  
>  > > You know what, never mind on that question, just realized masking tape
> works great for this. Thanks,  
>  > >  
>  > > Matt  
>  > >  
>  > > \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> "mattmarantz86"  wrote:  
>  > > >  
>  > > > Hey Guys,  
>  > > >  
>  > > > I've been working on learning refacing since about February. Mojo and
> the rest of the guys on this site and elsewhere have been extremely helpful
> so far. I've been working a HR Link for tenor recently and wanted to share a
> few pictures and a sound sample. I also have a couple of a questions about
> it. This piece started out as a 7*, and then it was adjusted to a few
> varying openings/curves while I tried out different settings to see how
> different stuff played. Ended up setting it up pretty closely to the
> mouthpiece I usually play, a metal Link 7*. So, after flattening the table
> and setting the tip opening to .104", the curve was set at a length of 48
> (24mm) with a radial facing. I tried some elliptical facings recently and
> didn't care for them, and also the piece I'm used to has a radial facing
> already, so that's what this one got.  
>  > > >  
>  > > > I tried to make the tip rail as thin as possible, and also filed the
> baffle down a good bit. I find that the mouthpiece responds better when the
> area right behind the tip rail is smoothed out. I think I may have taken a
> little bit too much out of the baffle on this one though as it's darker than
> I'm used to. I also widened the tip window, undercut the table, and tried to
> smooth out the factory-undercut sidewalls. I don't know if that last step
> produced a positive or negative effect, and would probably try it with the
> factory-cut sidewalls left in next time around before making any adjustments
> there.  
>  > > >  
>  > > > I wanted to post this on SOTW too and use their webspace for the mp3,
> but their site seems to be down right now, at least it was a few minutes
> ago. So, I posted an audio clip of this mouthpiece on my own site for just a
> little while (I'll probably take it down over the weekend). You can hear it
> at:  It's the first track which is
> titled "Mouthpiece Work Demo \\- HR Link 7* - What's New" and you just click
> directly on it to hear it. Hope you like it.  
>  > > >  
>  > > > Also, I posted some pictures of it on the photo bucket website. These
> can be seen at: 
> and they are the ones titled "Link .104"  
>  > > >  
>  > > > As you can see, the inside is still kinda rough (didn't really take
> the time to clean it up yet), but I did try to clean up the outside. The
> method I used was to clamp a reed on the mouthpiece with a ligature (to
> protect the facing and give you a template for the work) and then file the
> edges of the rails to shape from the outside. Then, I moved to sandpaper,
> and then steel wool, and then rubbing compound and polish. The only thing
> is, I found it was darn near impossible to get close enough to the edges of
> the facing to be able to clean up those areas adequately. As you can see,
> there are still rough spots close to the edges of the facing. I didn't want
> to try sanding/steel wool near the facing without the reed clamped onto the
> mouthpiece for fear of damaging the rails/table.  
>  > > >  
>  > > > So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of
> the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the
> rails/facing?  
>  > > >  
>  > > > Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. This is something that
> has baffled me (no pun intended) since beginning to work on mouthpieces. Do
> you guys normally use a reed to protect the facing, or do you just finish-
> sand those areas by hand?  
>  > > >  
>  > > > Cool, anyways, if you have any other tips about the work, that'd be
> great! Hoping to improve, and I have a fair amount of time these days to
> work on this stuff, so any helpful info would be greatly appreciated.  
>  > > >  
>  > > > Matt  
>  > > >  
>  > >  
>  >  
>  
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "mattmarantz86" > 
> So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 

Nice looking work in the photos.  I can tell by the way you play that you probably do prefer radial facings since they tend to be the most free blowing.  You may also like a little longer facing curve like a 50.  If you do try an elliptical facing curve again, make the tip opening a littel smaller (like .003" smaller or so) so it does not feel like more resistance.

I think most refacers do not mask off the facing when doing cosmetic finishing.  I sometimes mask with electrical tape when I'm using power tools or casting bite plates.

Hey Dan and Mojo, 

Thanks for the info and the tips. That does make sense about finishing the outside of the rails with the last few facing swipes.  Yeah, I'd like to try a longer facing length of 50 with the same tip opening. I could imagine that the extra mm might open up the low end even more. OK, yeah I'll try another elliptical facing sometime with a little bit smaller tip opening. 

Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "mattmarantz86" > 
> > So, my question is: How do you sand the file marks/scratches out of the outside of the mouthpiece near the facing without damaging the rails/facing? 
> 
> Nice looking work in the photos.  I can tell by the way you play that you probably do prefer radial facings since they tend to be the most free blowing.  You may also like a little longer facing curve like a 50.  If you do try an elliptical facing curve again, make the tip opening a littel smaller (like .003" smaller or so) so it does not feel like more resistance.
> 
> I think most refacers do not mask off the facing when doing cosmetic finishing.  I sometimes mask with electrical tape when I'm using power tools or casting bite plates.
>