Hi,

Is there a specific advantage in making the rails uneven?
I mean having the other rail higher than the other with otherwise similar profiles.
I have a RPC 90B alto piece that is faced like this.
The difference seems to be a constant 1/2mm (1 unit on the "classic" gage) for each feeler.

I do not think Ron did this intentionally.  He might tell you if you called 
him.  I think he may have taken an uneven final swipe or the table may have 
moved (warped, creeped) a little after it was worked on.  If one rail is 
consistently higher than the other one, working on the table can bring them in 
most of the way.

There have been reports of refacers/players who use uneven facings on clarinet 
and sax.  It can give a certain resistance that they like.  I think there are 
better ways of giving the resistance in the facing by adjusting the tip, facing 
length and/or curve of the facing.  


Crooked facings can be a little reed picky.  They cause some players to search 
for the few reeds in a box that may also be softer on one side in a way that 
plays well with this facing.  If you adjust your reeds, you can make more in the 
box play well on a crooked facing.  But I think uniform facings and uniform 
reeds are a better strategy.




________________________________
From: artmutan <artmutan@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:45:26 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Uneven rails

  
Hi,

Is there a specific advantage in making the rails uneven?
I mean having the other rail higher than the other with otherwise similar 
profiles.
I have a RPC 90B alto piece that is faced like this.
The difference seems to be a constant 1/2mm (1 unit on the "classic" gage) for 
each feeler.





      

Thanks for the reply.

I bought the piece second hand so I don't know it's history.
It was definitely in "used" condition when I got it so anything might have happened to it.
The problem was it didn't play well softly so I had a closer look.

I now reworked the table and evened out the rails and now it plays all dynamics very well.
I also noticed new reeds out of the box work better with it now.

There was something nice in the added resistance of the uneven rails though. Maybe the need to push harder over the resistance added some rawness or punch to the sound. Or I could just be imagining or maybe I changed something else in the facing at the same time.

Anyway I want to play all dynamic levels easily so the current state is much better for me.

-Arto

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think Ron did this intentionally.  He might tell you if you called 
> him.  I think he may have taken an uneven final swipe or the table may have 
> moved (warped, creeped) a little after it was worked on.  If one rail is 
> consistently higher than the other one, working on the table can bring them in 
> most of the way.
> 
> There have been reports of refacers/players who use uneven facings on clarinet 
> and sax.  It can give a certain resistance that they like.  I think there are 
> better ways of giving the resistance in the facing by adjusting the tip, facing 
> length and/or curve of the facing.  
> 
> 
> Crooked facings can be a little reed picky.  They cause some players to search 
> for the few reeds in a box that may also be softer on one side in a way that 
> plays well with this facing.  If you adjust your reeds, you can make more in the 
> box play well on a crooked facing.  But I think uniform facings and uniform 
> reeds are a better strategy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: artmutan <artmutan@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:45:26 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Uneven rails
> 
>   
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a specific advantage in making the rails uneven?
> I mean having the other rail higher than the other with otherwise similar 
> profiles.
> I have a RPC 90B alto piece that is faced like this.
> The difference seems to be a constant 1/2mm (1 unit on the "classic" gage) for 
> each feeler.
>

This is from the RPC Mouthpieces website:

"RESISTANCE POINT: Hugely important, there is good resistance and bad resistance. Good resistance gives something to push against and becomes familiar to the embouchure, this leads to good intonation and evenness of scale, without struggling to adjust different ranges of the horn. Bad resistance makes the horn stuffy and tires the embouchure....Not good."

I like this theory, and I would like to know more about it. To create bumps in the facings sounds more logical than having one rail higher than the other. 

EgilF.



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "artmutan" <artmutan@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I bought the piece second hand so I don't know it's history.
> It was definitely in "used" condition when I got it so anything might have happened to it.
> The problem was it didn't play well softly so I had a closer look.
> 
> I now reworked the table and evened out the rails and now it plays all dynamics very well.
> I also noticed new reeds out of the box work better with it now.
> 
> There was something nice in the added resistance of the uneven rails though. Maybe the need to push harder over the resistance added some rawness or punch to the sound. Or I could just be imagining or maybe I changed something else in the facing at the same time.
> 
> Anyway I want to play all dynamic levels easily so the current state is much better for me.
> 
> -Arto
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> >
> > I do not think Ron did this intentionally.  He might tell you if you called 
> > him.  I think he may have taken an uneven final swipe or the table may have 
> > moved (warped, creeped) a little after it was worked on.  If one rail is 
> > consistently higher than the other one, working on the table can bring them in 
> > most of the way.
> > 
> > There have been reports of refacers/players who use uneven facings on clarinet 
> > and sax.  It can give a certain resistance that they like.  I think there are 
> > better ways of giving the resistance in the facing by adjusting the tip, facing 
> > length and/or curve of the facing.  
> > 
> > 
> > Crooked facings can be a little reed picky.  They cause some players to search 
> > for the few reeds in a box that may also be softer on one side in a way that 
> > plays well with this facing.  If you adjust your reeds, you can make more in the 
> > box play well on a crooked facing.  But I think uniform facings and uniform 
> > reeds are a better strategy.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: artmutan <artmutan@>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:45:26 PM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Uneven rails
> > 
> >   
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is there a specific advantage in making the rails uneven?
> > I mean having the other rail higher than the other with otherwise similar 
> > profiles.
> > I have a RPC 90B alto piece that is faced like this.
> > The difference seems to be a constant 1/2mm (1 unit on the "classic" gage) for 
> > each feeler.
> >
>

Not exactly sure what you mean, but I don't think uneven rails or bumps in the facing are ever truly desired by most. Uneven rails, as previously stated, can create bad resistance/inefficiency in the facing. Bumps in the facing (or areas that are dramatically higher on the rails than the other areas, even if the bumps are symmetrical on both rails) would also mostly be undesired by most people. This would create a part of the facing that would make the reed have to bend a little bit further to reach the tip. This, to me, would also create inefficiency in the facing. 
My guess is that the goal of most mouthpiece techs is to get the table flat (or at least flat on the perimeter with a concavity in the middle is that's the refacer's style), the break point set at a good length matched to the mouthpiece's needs, a smooth curve that follows a radial or elliptical set of data points along the duration of the curve, and a tip opening that matches the rest of the facing. This, in my limited experience, has proven to work better than facings that do not line up evenly or don't have smooth curves. 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "EgilF." <egfurre@...> wrote:
>
> This is from the RPC Mouthpieces website:
> 
> "RESISTANCE POINT: Hugely important, there is good resistance and bad resistance. Good resistance gives something to push against and becomes familiar to the embouchure, this leads to good intonation and evenness of scale, without struggling to adjust different ranges of the horn. Bad resistance makes the horn stuffy and tires the embouchure....Not good."
> 
> I like this theory, and I would like to know more about it. To create bumps in the facings sounds more logical than having one rail higher than the other. 
> 
> EgilF.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "artmutan" <artmutan@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.
> > 
> > I bought the piece second hand so I don't know it's history.
> > It was definitely in "used" condition when I got it so anything might have happened to it.
> > The problem was it didn't play well softly so I had a closer look.
> > 
> > I now reworked the table and evened out the rails and now it plays all dynamics very well.
> > I also noticed new reeds out of the box work better with it now.
> > 
> > There was something nice in the added resistance of the uneven rails though. Maybe the need to push harder over the resistance added some rawness or punch to the sound. Or I could just be imagining or maybe I changed something else in the facing at the same time.
> > 
> > Anyway I want to play all dynamic levels easily so the current state is much better for me.
> > 
> > -Arto
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I do not think Ron did this intentionally.  He might tell you if you called 
> > > him.  I think he may have taken an uneven final swipe or the table may have 
> > > moved (warped, creeped) a little after it was worked on.  If one rail is 
> > > consistently higher than the other one, working on the table can bring them in 
> > > most of the way.
> > > 
> > > There have been reports of refacers/players who use uneven facings on clarinet 
> > > and sax.  It can give a certain resistance that they like.  I think there are 
> > > better ways of giving the resistance in the facing by adjusting the tip, facing 
> > > length and/or curve of the facing.  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Crooked facings can be a little reed picky.  They cause some players to search 
> > > for the few reeds in a box that may also be softer on one side in a way that 
> > > plays well with this facing.  If you adjust your reeds, you can make more in the 
> > > box play well on a crooked facing.  But I think uniform facings and uniform 
> > > reeds are a better strategy.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: artmutan <artmutan@>
> > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wed, October 6, 2010 1:45:26 PM
> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Uneven rails
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Is there a specific advantage in making the rails uneven?
> > > I mean having the other rail higher than the other with otherwise similar 
> > > profiles.
> > > I have a RPC 90B alto piece that is faced like this.
> > > The difference seems to be a constant 1/2mm (1 unit on the "classic" gage) for 
> > > each feeler.
> > >
> >
>

We have often heard, "I can't find good reeds.  I have to go through a whole box to find maybe one good reed."

The cause of this, I am convinced, is uneven rails.  The player has to find that one reed that is unevenly cut enough to happen to play well on the crooked mouthpiece.

My experience is that if the siderails are even, more reeds will play, and play better.

I have found no good reason for uneven siderails.

Paul C.