Hi all-

Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.

In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.

I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.

I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?

thanks all.

Matt

I've been doing repairs since 1972. We've got literally thousands of  
customers worldwide. I want to assure you that you can never make  
everyone happy. I also want to assure you that musicians especially  
seem to be prone to unreasonable expectations. As long as over 95% of  
your customer base is happy and coming back, you are way ahead of the  
curve.

Novice players are particularly difficult. We NEVER had problems with  
full time pro players. The difficulties seem to invariably arise with  
the amateurs and wannabes. Their playing problems often extend far  
beyond their equipment.

If you are insistent on servicing this market (and I would advise  
against it, or at least charge them enough to make your pain and  
suffering worth your while), then I would suggest having them pick up  
and play test their pieces at your shop, and if they require any  
adjustments, require them to be very specific about what they want. I  
think the novice market is a fool's game, and usually charge them  
double at the first sign of playing incompetence on their part. It's  
not up to you to raise them and make them practice.

All of this diatribe assumes, of course, that you did a good job for  
them (and I have no reason to doubt that you did) and that if they  
made unreasonable initial requests (a beginner should most likely  
avoid a tenor mouthpiece opened up to .145) you dissuaded them.

Doing business with the public at large is difficult on a good day,  
impossible on most days.


On May 5, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Matthew wrote:

> Hi all-
>
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working  
> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by  
> trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are  
> at a certain level.
>
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an  
> alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the  
> other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
>
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the  
> result.
>
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't  
> make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do  
> you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening  
> requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when  
> approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose,  
> baffle work, etc.)?
>
> thanks all.
>
> Matt
>
>
> 

Is it possible they are simply using the wrong REED, just because the teacher told him/her to use, say, a Rico 2 without regard to equipment, as happens in most beginner situations?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Matthew" 
Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 18:32:06 
To: 
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations

Hi all-

Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.

In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.

I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.

I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?

thanks all.

Matt



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Gospel truth.  You nailed it Steve.  The only thing I would add is when possible, watch and/or listen to them play.  This will give you some idea what might (or might not) work for them.  A buddy of mine tells me that Paul Coates can listen to a recording of someone and have a pretty good idea what might help them mouthpiece-wise.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: STEVE GOODSON 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations


    
  I've been doing repairs since 1972. We've got literally thousands of customers worldwide. I want to assure you that you can never make everyone happy. I also want to assure you that musicians especially seem to be prone to unreasonable expectations. As long as over 95% of your customer base is happy and coming back, you are way ahead of the curve.



  Novice players are particularly difficult. We NEVER had problems with full time pro players. The difficulties seem to invariably arise with the amateurs and wannabes. Their playing problems often extend far beyond their equipment.


  If you are insistent on servicing this market (and I would advise against it, or at least charge them enough to make your pain and suffering worth your while), then I would suggest having them pick up and play test their pieces at your shop, and if they require any adjustments, require them to be very specific about what they want. I think the novice market is a fool's game, and usually charge them double at the first sign of playing incompetence on their part. It's not up to you to raise them and make them practice.


  All of this diatribe assumes, of course, that you did a good job for them (and I have no reason to doubt that you did) and that if they made unreasonable initial requests (a beginner should most likely avoid a tenor mouthpiece opened up to .145) you dissuaded them.


  Doing business with the public at large is difficult on a good day, impossible on most days.




  On May 5, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Matthew wrote:


    Hi all-

    Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.

    In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.

    I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.

    I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?

    thanks all.

    Matt







  

Coats can absolutely do that....it's uncanny.....he instinctively  
knows what will work


On May 5, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Robert W. Smith wrote:

>
> Gospel truth.  You nailed it Steve.  The only thing I would add is  
> when possible, watch and/or listen to them play.  This will give you  
> some idea what might (or might not) work for them.  A buddy of mine  
> tells me that Paul Coates can listen to a recording of someone and  
> have a pretty good idea what might help them mouthpiece-wise.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: STEVE GOODSON
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations
>
>
> I've been doing repairs since 1972. We've got literally thousands of  
> customers worldwide. I want to assure you that you can never make  
> everyone happy. I also want to assure you that musicians especially  
> seem to be prone to unreasonable expectations. As long as over 95%  
> of your customer base is happy and coming back, you are way ahead of  
> the curve.
>
>
> Novice players are particularly difficult. We NEVER had problems  
> with full time pro players. The difficulties seem to invariably  
> arise with the amateurs and wannabes. Their playing problems often  
> extend far beyond their equipment.
>
> If you are insistent on servicing this market (and I would advise  
> against it, or at least charge them enough to make your pain and  
> suffering worth your while), then I would suggest having them pick  
> up and play test their pieces at your shop, and if they require any  
> adjustments, require them to be very specific about what they want.  
> I think the novice market is a fool's game, and usually charge them  
> double at the first sign of playing incompetence on their part. It's  
> not up to you to raise them and make them practice.
>
> All of this diatribe assumes, of course, that you did a good job for  
> them (and I have no reason to doubt that you did) and that if they  
> made unreasonable initial requests (a beginner should most likely  
> avoid a tenor mouthpiece opened up to .145) you dissuaded them.
>
> Doing business with the public at large is difficult on a good day,  
> impossible on most days.
>
>
> On May 5, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Matthew wrote:
>
>> Hi all-
>>
>> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working  
>> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists  
>> by trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and  
>> are at a certain level.
>>
>> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
>> different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an  
>> alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the  
>> other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
>>
>> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
>> excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the  
>> result.
>>
>> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
>> expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't  
>> make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do  
>> you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening  
>> requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when  
>> approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might  
>> choose, baffle work, etc.)?
>>
>> thanks all.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 

I would have them try playing the piece with different reeds.  I remember when I was in jazz band back in high school and my band director took my 2.5 reed from me, broke it on my stand and said I had to play with a 3.5   Just because a 3.5 works for one person, doesn't mean it works for another.  I am still upset that he broke my reed.

Gerry

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all-
> 
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
> 
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?
> 
> thanks all.
> 
> Matt
>

you generally need to keep the band director out of the  
equation.....unless they are a saxophone player, and even then be  
suspicious



On May 5, 2010, at 3:41 PM, gzydek wrote:

> I would have them try playing the piece with different reeds. I  
> remember when I was in jazz band back in high school and my band  
> director took my 2.5 reed from me, broke it on my stand and said I  
> had to play with a 3.5 Just because a 3.5 works for one person,  
> doesn't mean it works for another. I am still upset that he broke my  
> reed.
>
> Gerry
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...>  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all-
> >
> > Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working  
> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by  
> trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are  
> at a certain level.
> >
> > In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an  
> alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the  
> other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
> >
> > I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the  
> result.
> >
> > I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't  
> make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do  
> you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening  
> requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when  
> approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose,  
> baffle work, etc.)?
> >
> > thanks all.
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
>
> 

Let me share some thoughts from the perspective of a career music
educator who has taught saxophone students from elementary school
through high school and college for over 30 years.  A typical student at
an elementary performance level on saxophone has not yet developed the
control of the tone production or the necessary tonal concepts  to
benefit from adjustments to their mouthpiece.

What happens in so many cases is that inexperienced players, or amateurs
have an expectation that such and such mouthpiece, reed, ligature, neck,
saxophone etc. will make them sound like (fill in the blank) or make
them play and sound better.  When the newness of the new equipment wears
off they soon realize that they still sound the same as they always did.
Of course they blame the equipment for the failure to experience their
expectation.  It can't possibly be because their playing sucks.

The fault in this described instance was not the work done by the
mouthpiece refacer, it was that the inexperienced players had an
unrealistic expectation that having their mouthpiece worked on by a
great player would make them sound more like that player.  There would
be nothing wrong with explaining to a potential customer that you would
love to customize a mouthpiece for them after they have played a few
more years and reached a level where they can experience the full
benefit to their playing that a custom refaced mouthpiece can provide.




--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all-
>
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working
saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by
trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at
a certain level.
>
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different
saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for
a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link
tenor piece for next to nothing.
>
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently
for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
>
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations
of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone
happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses
and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the
players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the
mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?
>
> thanks all.
>
> Matt
>

Hi Matt,

A couple of things come to mind --

While John is right that not everybody can benefit fully from a great mouthpiece, I never take it upon myself to decide that for them.  Better to have a piece you won't grow out of and will never hold you back.  I don't do anything special for developing players.  Just middle of the road specs.  

Communication is key.  Knowing what your client's goals are w/r/t sound is crucial.  Talk to them about their favorite players, what their current equipment is/isn't doing for them -- you have to know what kind of player they're trying to be, and what kind of gear will get them there most comfortably.  Also, be honest with them.  If they need to work on their sound, be straight about it and point them in the right direction.  Your clients, even the pros, look to you as an expert in these things, and will often take your advice.  They're obviously not happy with their sound right now.  You have to be able to identify what is the fault of the equipment, what is the fault of the player, what is just a mismatch between the two, and exactly how to fix any of these.

In the rare event that a client isn't entirely happy with the work, I always offer free adjustment.  If they can come to me, I'll sit and make it right for them while they wait.

Hope that helps
Morgan




--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all-
> 
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
> 
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?
> 
> thanks all.
> 
> Matt
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gzydek" <gzydek@...> wrote:
>
> I would have them try playing the piece with different reeds.  I remember when I was in jazz band back in high school and my band director took my 2.5 reed from me, broke it on my stand and said I had to play with a 3.5   Just because a 3.5 works for one person, doesn't mean it works for another.  I am still upset that he broke my reed.
> 
> Gerry

Gerry, I had one of my private students come in, had been switched to bari sax by the band director, and was turning red trying to blow the thing.  His tone was thin and airy.  The band director had demanded all play with Vandoren 3 1/2's (and only Vandoren).  Why?  That's what she (the band director) used on her clarinet.  I gave him a 2 1/2 and he had a big, warm tone.  There was simply no need for a hard reed, or in this case, way too hard reed.

A customer sent an RIA metal bari piece for me to fix.  It squeeked uncontrollably.  He included reeds that he used with it.  I won't name the brand... and I had exactly the same results.  My wife even called from the other room, "I've never heard you squeek before.  You sound like a beginner."  Yikes!!!

This was a good brand of reed, and a good mouthpiece with absolutely nothing wrong with it.  Facing was straight, and entirely consistent with its use as a big band bari piece.  It was just that this cut of reed did not work with that mouthpiece.

I sent the mouthpiece back to him untouched, with another few reeds that I found played just fine with it. And no tendency to squeek.

My point is, many players will try a new mouthpiece with their favorite cut and strength of reed, because they have a box of them... without trying to find what reed plays well with the new mouthpiece.

ALWAYS experiment with reeds with a new mouthpiece.

Paul

This can be a very challenging and complex part of "the biz".  You need to educate your client before-hand if they need it.  Most of my clients spend a lot of time on SOTW and read my web site.  So they are self-educated as to what to expect.  As I raised my prices (mostly due to supply and demand), my client mix shifted more away from players looking for a mouthpiece to make them sound like one of their heroes.  Still, there are a lot of players out there who are more willing to pay for mouthpiece work than they are willing to develop their (weak) chops.

Whenever I get an Email saying they are looking for a MP to sound like "player X", I pounce on it with a reply that is more realistic about what I can do for them.  Early in my refacing career, I took back a tenor SS Berg that a client wanted to sound more like Sam Butera on.  I had already made it into a great Berg.  So I found some sound clips of Sam playing Mala Femena on the web and practiced an hour until I sounded like the clip.  It was a fun challenge for me.  I recorded myself and sent both clips to the client.  He said "great" what did you do to the mouthpiece.  I said a slapped on a Fibracell 2.5 and practiced for an hour.  He reluctantly took it back because I had made my point.  

If they Email that this is their main MP and they need it back ASAP, I go into my reply about having a back-up MP and that refacing is not a risk-free experience.  I say I have a good track record if they still want to send their primary MP and we work out how to minimize their time without it.

I still get 1-2 vocally disappointed clients a year, out of the 150-200 jobs I do.  A few more probably do not blame it on me and just sell the mouthpiece to someone else who can appreciate it.  Or, they toss it in a drawer and they pull it out later.  Sometimes they send me an Email saying they thought it was no good and now it is their #1 player.  Did the mouthpiece change?  I think not.

I do offer free follow-up adjustments if they paid for a full reface job.  If it was a discounted job, I just charge for the remaining balance up to a full reface.  I get very few returns for adjustments so this has been manageable.  Of the returns, most seem to be for a wider tip or more resistance since my work made the mouthpiece a lot more free-blowing than they anticipated.  Using a little stiffer reed satisfies most of my other clients.

Of the 1-2 really disappointed ones, I try to learn from them.  I bend over backwards and have bent over frontwards too.  But I do that less now.  ;)  

Some of these clients have grown really used to playing on a mouthpiece with a crooked facing, bumps and flat spots.  It offers a certain resistance they did not think would change with refacing work.  My most memorable one was a Alto Meyer Bros 4M that a pro client wanted opened to a 5M in 2006.  The client thought it was ruined.  He did not want to risk me doing follow up work to put it back to where it was.  I was not looking forward to trying to do that anyway.  He was of the mind-set that it was never going to be the same as it was.  So I offered to purchase it from him at a fair price.  We settled on $1000.  A year and a half later I sold it for $1100 to a happy player.  It was not easy laying out $1000, but I knew I would eventually sell it.




________________________________
From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 2:32:06 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations

  
Hi all-

Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.

In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.

I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.

I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?

thanks all.

Matt





      

We keep a large assortment of reeds on hand at our shop for exactly  
the reason Paul states, and often insist that the customer try  
something different from their usual brand and strength....

I know that many beginners and amateurs are gear-heads. I know I  
certainly was: I bought my first aftermarket mouthpiece, a Brilhart  
Tonalin alto 5*, at age 12, and had my first Mk VI tenor about a week  
(I was age 14) before I bought a Berg Larsen 105/1 since the C* it  
came with just wasn't cutting it in my rock and roll band.....I don't  
think most beginners or amateurs can benefit significantly from  
refacing, unless their current mouthpiece is BADLY off spec.....they  
are better off to try different mouthiece/reed set ups.



On May 6, 2010, at 9:06 AM, tenorman1952 wrote:

>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gzydek" <gzydek@...> wrote:
> >
> > I would have them try playing the piece with different reeds. I  
> remember when I was in jazz band back in high school and my band  
> director took my 2.5 reed from me, broke it on my stand and said I  
> had to play with a 3.5 Just because a 3.5 works for one person,  
> doesn't mean it works for another. I am still upset that he broke my  
> reed.
> >
> > Gerry
>
> Gerry, I had one of my private students come in, had been switched  
> to bari sax by the band director, and was turning red trying to blow  
> the thing. His tone was thin and airy. The band director had  
> demanded all play with Vandoren 3 1/2's (and only Vandoren). Why?  
> That's what she (the band director) used on her clarinet. I gave him  
> a 2 1/2 and he had a big, warm tone. There was simply no need for a  
> hard reed, or in this case, way too hard reed.
>
> A customer sent an RIA metal bari piece for me to fix. It squeeked  
> uncontrollably. He included reeds that he used with it. I won't name  
> the brand... and I had exactly the same results. My wife even called  
> from the other room, "I've never heard you squeek before. You sound  
> like a beginner." Yikes!!!
>
> This was a good brand of reed, and a good mouthpiece with absolutely  
> nothing wrong with it. Facing was straight, and entirely consistent  
> with its use as a big band bari piece. It was just that this cut of  
> reed did not work with that mouthpiece.
>
> I sent the mouthpiece back to him untouched, with another few reeds  
> that I found played just fine with it. And no tendency to squeek.
>
> My point is, many players will try a new mouthpiece with their  
> favorite cut and strength of reed, because they have a box of  
> them... without trying to find what reed plays well with the new  
> mouthpiece.
>
> ALWAYS experiment with reeds with a new mouthpiece.
>
> Paul
>
>
> 

Keith:
Your experience makes me think that we should get refacing clients to  
sign a release when we take in work. the release should disclose that  
this is an art, not a science, that results are not guaranteed,  
specify the work to be done, and disclose payment terms and what  
happens if they don't pay and pick it up within an agreed upon time  
frame. This way, there would be no misunderstanding, everything would  
be disclosed right up front. We've done this in our repair business  
for years. I should devise a form for refacing work....



On May 6, 2010, at 9:13 AM, Keith Bradbury wrote:

>
> This can be a very challenging and complex part of "the biz".  You  
> need to educate your client before-hand if they need it.  Most of my  
> clients spend a lot of time on SOTW and read my web site.  So they  
> are self-educated as to what to expect.  As I raised my prices  
> (mostly due to supply and demand), my client mix shifted more away  
> from players looking for a mouthpiece to make them sound like one of  
> their heroes.  Still, there are a lot of players out there who are  
> more willing to pay for mouthpiece work than they are willing to  
> develop their (weak) chops.
>
> Whenever I get an Email saying they are looking for a MP to sound  
> like "player X", I pounce on it with a reply that is more realistic  
> about what I can do for them.  Early in my refacing career, I took  
> back a tenor SS Berg that a client wanted to sound more like Sam  
> Butera on.  I had already made it into a great Berg.  So I found  
> some sound clips of Sam playing Mala Femena on the web and practiced  
> an hour until I sounded like the clip.  It was a fun challenge for  
> me.  I recorded myself and sent both clips to the client.  He said  
> "great" what did you do to the mouthpiece.  I said a slapped on a  
> Fibracell 2.5 and practiced for an hour.  He reluctantly took it  
> back because I had made my point.
>
> If they Email that this is their main MP and they need it back ASAP,  
> I go into my reply about having a back-up MP and that refacing is  
> not a risk-free experience.  I say I have a good track record if  
> they still want to send their primary MP and we work out how to  
> minimize their time without it.
>
> I still get 1-2 vocally disappointed clients a year, out of the  
> 150-200 jobs I do.  A few more probably do not blame it on me and  
> just sell the mouthpiece to someone else who can appreciate it.  Or,  
> they toss it in a drawer and they pull it out later.  Sometimes they  
> send me an Email saying they thought it was no good and now it is  
> their #1 player.  Did the mouthpiece change?  I think not.
>
> I do offer free follow-up adjustments if they paid for a full reface  
> job.  If it was a discounted job, I just charge for the remaining  
> balance up to a full reface.  I get very few returns for adjustments  
> so this has been manageable.  Of the returns, most seem to be for a  
> wider tip or more resistance since my work made the mouthpiece a lot  
> more free-blowing than they anticipated.  Using a little stiffer  
> reed satisfies most of my other clients.
>
> Of the 1-2 really disappointed ones, I try to learn from them.  I  
> bend over backwards and have bent over frontwards too.  But I do  
> that less now.  ;)
>
> Some of these clients have grown really used to playing on a  
> mouthpiece with a crooked facing, bumps and flat spots.  It offers a  
> certain resistance they did not think would change with refacing  
> work.  My most memorable one was a Alto Meyer Bros 4M that a pro  
> client wanted opened to a 5M in 2006.  The client thought it was  
> ruined.  He did not want to risk me doing follow up work to put it  
> back to where it was.  I was not looking forward to trying to do  
> that anyway.  He was of the mind-set that it was never going to be  
> the same as it was.  So I offered to purchase it from him at a fair  
> price.  We settled on $1000.  A year and a half later I sold it for  
> $1100 to a happy player.  It was not easy laying out $1000, but I  
> knew I would eventually sell it.
>
> From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 2:32:06 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations
>
>
> Hi all-
>
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working  
> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by  
> trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are  
> at a certain level.
>
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an  
> alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the  
> other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
>
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the  
> result.
>
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't  
> make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do  
> you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening  
> requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when  
> approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose,  
> baffle work, etc.)?
>
> thanks all.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
> 

Mornin' all-

Thanks so much for all of the replies and insight.  I do in fact do most of my work in person but of course these were two of the whopping five I've done through the mail...

I'm by no means looking to hustle work from this demographic.  I feel blessed to do a couple of mouthpieces a month.  Here I thought I was 'giving back' or 'paying it forward' or whatever you may want to call it (especially in the case of the freshman whose mouthpiece I did pro bono).  I remember being a poor college kid (of course, that was 15 years ago and I think I used the internet one or two times to help with a paper...).  I also remember that phase going through mouthpieces fairly quickly, but would never make a judgement after only a day or two.

I see now the importance of asking far more questions in advance.  I did suggest different/harder reeds to both (they were both playing on very soft reeds for their respective mouthpieces) but I suspect the judgement has already been passed.

I will definitely chalk this up to a valuable learning experience.

Again, thanks all for sharing your wisdom and experiences.

Blessings, Matt

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> This can be a very challenging and complex part of "the biz".  You need to educate your client before-hand if they need it.  Most of my clients spend a lot of time on SOTW and read my web site.  So they are self-educated as to what to expect.  As I raised my prices (mostly due to supply and demand), my client mix shifted more away from players looking for a mouthpiece to make them sound like one of their heroes.  Still, there are a lot of players out there who are more willing to pay for mouthpiece work than they are willing to develop their (weak) chops.
> 
> Whenever I get an Email saying they are looking for a MP to sound like "player X", I pounce on it with a reply that is more realistic about what I can do for them.  Early in my refacing career, I took back a tenor SS Berg that a client wanted to sound more like Sam Butera on.  I had already made it into a great Berg.  So I found some sound clips of Sam playing Mala Femena on the web and practiced an hour until I sounded like the clip.  It was a fun challenge for me.  I recorded myself and sent both clips to the client.  He said "great" what did you do to the mouthpiece.  I said a slapped on a Fibracell 2.5 and practiced for an hour.  He reluctantly took it back because I had made my point.  
> 
> If they Email that this is their main MP and they need it back ASAP, I go into my reply about having a back-up MP and that refacing is not a risk-free experience.  I say I have a good track record if they still want to send their primary MP and we work out how to minimize their time without it.
> 
> I still get 1-2 vocally disappointed clients a year, out of the 150-200 jobs I do.  A few more probably do not blame it on me and just sell the mouthpiece to someone else who can appreciate it.  Or, they toss it in a drawer and they pull it out later.  Sometimes they send me an Email saying they thought it was no good and now it is their #1 player.  Did the mouthpiece change?  I think not.
> 
> I do offer free follow-up adjustments if they paid for a full reface job.  If it was a discounted job, I just charge for the remaining balance up to a full reface.  I get very few returns for adjustments so this has been manageable.  Of the returns, most seem to be for a wider tip or more resistance since my work made the mouthpiece a lot more free-blowing than they anticipated.  Using a little stiffer reed satisfies most of my other clients.
> 
> Of the 1-2 really disappointed ones, I try to learn from them.  I bend over backwards and have bent over frontwards too.  But I do that less now.  ;)  
> 
> Some of these clients have grown really used to playing on a mouthpiece with a crooked facing, bumps and flat spots.  It offers a certain resistance they did not think would change with refacing work.  My most memorable one was a Alto Meyer Bros 4M that a pro client wanted opened to a 5M in 2006.  The client thought it was ruined.  He did not want to risk me doing follow up work to put it back to where it was.  I was not looking forward to trying to do that anyway.  He was of the mind-set that it was never going to be the same as it was.  So I offered to purchase it from him at a fair price.  We settled on $1000.  A year and a half later I sold it for $1100 to a happy player.  It was not easy laying out $1000, but I knew I would eventually sell it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 2:32:06 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations
> 
>   
> Hi all-
> 
> Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at a certain level.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
> 
> I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> 
> I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?
> 
> thanks all.
> 
> Matt
>

through the mail is the toughest way.....you never really get to know  
the customer and sometimes find out all too late they are a space  
case.....you also can't do the interactive back and forth thing which  
is so important to really making them happy and solving their problems


On May 6, 2010, at 9:45 AM, Matthew wrote:

> Mornin' all-
>
> Thanks so much for all of the replies and insight. I do in fact do  
> most of my work in person but of course these were two of the  
> whopping five I've done through the mail...
>
> I'm by no means looking to hustle work from this demographic. I feel  
> blessed to do a couple of mouthpieces a month. Here I thought I was  
> 'giving back' or 'paying it forward' or whatever you may want to  
> call it (especially in the case of the freshman whose mouthpiece I  
> did pro bono). I remember being a poor college kid (of course, that  
> was 15 years ago and I think I used the internet one or two times to  
> help with a paper...). I also remember that phase going through  
> mouthpieces fairly quickly, but would never make a judgement after  
> only a day or two.
>
> I see now the importance of asking far more questions in advance. I  
> did suggest different/harder reeds to both (they were both playing  
> on very soft reeds for their respective mouthpieces) but I suspect  
> the judgement has already been passed.
>
> I will definitely chalk this up to a valuable learning experience.
>
> Again, thanks all for sharing your wisdom and experiences.
>
> Blessings, Matt
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury  
> <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
> >
> > This can be a very challenging and complex part of "the biz".   
> You need to educate your client before-hand if they need it.  Most  
> of my clients spend a lot of time on SOTW and read my web site.  So  
> they are self-educated as to what to expect.  As I raised my prices  
> (mostly due to supply and demand), my client mix shifted more away  
> from players looking for a mouthpiece to make them sound like one of  
> their heroes.  Still, there are a lot of players out there who are  
> more willing to pay for mouthpiece work than they are willing to  
> develop their (weak) chops.
> >
> > Whenever I get an Email saying they are looking for a MP to sound  
> like "player X", I pounce on it with a reply that is more  
> realistic about what I can do for them.  Early in my refacing  
> career, I took back a tenor SS Berg that a client wanted to sound  
> more like Sam Butera on.  I had already made it into a great  
> Berg.  So I found some sound clips of Sam playing Mala Femena on  
> the web and practiced an hour until I sounded like the clip.  It  
> was a fun challenge for me.  I recorded myself and sent both clips  
> to the client.  He said "great" what did you do to the  
> mouthpiece.  I said a slapped on a Fibracell 2.5 and practiced for  
> an hour.  He reluctantly took it back because I had made my point.Â
> >
> > If they Email that this is their main MP and they need it back  
> ASAP, I go into my reply about having a back-up MP and that refacing  
> is not a risk-free experience.  I say I have a good track record if  
> they still want to send their primary MP and we work out how to  
> minimize their time without it.
> >
> > IÂ still get 1-2Â vocally disappointed clients a year, out of the  
> 150-200 jobs I do.  A few more probably do not blame it on me and  
> just sell the mouthpiece to someone else who can appreciate it.   
> Or, they toss it in a drawer and they pull it out later.  Sometimes  
> they send me an Email saying they thought it was no good and now it  
> is their #1 player.  Did the mouthpiece change?  I think not.
> >
> > I do offer free follow-up adjustments if they paid for a full  
> reface job.  If it was a discounted job, I just charge for the  
> remaining balance up to a full reface.  I get very few returns for  
> adjustments so this has been manageable.  Of the returns, most seem  
> to be for a wider tip or more resistance since my work made the  
> mouthpiece a lot more free-blowing than they anticipated.  Using  
> a little stiffer reed satisfies most of my other clients.
> >
> > Of the 1-2 really disappointed ones, I try to learn from them.  I  
> bend over backwards and have bent over frontwards too.  But I do  
> that less now.  ;)Â
> >
> > Some of these clients have grown really used to playing on a  
> mouthpiece with a crooked facing, bumps and flat spots.  It offers  
> a certain resistance they did not think would change with refacing  
> work.  My most memorable one was a Alto Meyer Bros 4M that a pro  
> client wanted opened to a 5M in 2006.  The client thought it was  
> ruined.  He did not want to risk me doing follow up work to put it  
> back to where it was.  I was not looking forward to trying to do  
> that anyway.  He was of the mind-set that it was never going to be  
> the same as it was.  So I offered to purchase it from him at a fair  
> price.  We settled on $1000.  A year and a half later I sold it  
> for $1100 to a happy player.  It was not easy laying out $1000, but  
> I knew I would eventually sell it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 2:32:06 PM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Managing expectations
> >
> > Â
> > Hi all-
> >
> > Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working  
> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by  
> trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are  
> at a certain level.
> >
> > In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> different saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an  
> alto piece for a freshman college student on me (for free) and the  
> other was a Link tenor piece for next to nothing.
> >
> > I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> excellently for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the  
> result.
> >
> > I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> expectations of novice players. While I understand that you can't  
> make everyone happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do  
> you cut your losses and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening  
> requests, does the players ability level dictate your strategy when  
> approaching the mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose,  
> baffle work, etc.)?
> >
> > thanks all.
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
>
> 

This might not help, Matthew, but I think it is too bad ALL student and intermediate mouthpieces are not hand checked and corrected as needed. A flat table and a balanced curve make the job of learning good tone production possible and more probable, until the mouthpiece is dropped. :-)

Customizations to instruments and cars are dangerous without knowing the why and who well.

E v e r e t t t
 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jtalcott47@...> wrote:
>
> Let me share some thoughts from the perspective of a career music
> educator who has taught saxophone students from elementary school
> through high school and college for over 30 years.  A typical student at
> an elementary performance level on saxophone has not yet developed the
> control of the tone production or the necessary tonal concepts  to
> benefit from adjustments to their mouthpiece.> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all-
> >
> > Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working
> saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by
> trade).  By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and are at
> a certain level.
> >
> > In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two different
> saxophonists at an elementary ability level.  One was an alto piece for
> a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link
> tenor piece for next to nothing.
> >
> > I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played excellently
> for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> >
> > I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the expectations
> of novice players.  While I understand that you can't make everyone
> happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your losses
> and move on so to speak?  Aside from tip opening requests, does the
> players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the
> mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work, etc.)?
> >
> > thanks all.
> >
> > Matt
> >
>

Whenever I give one of my seminars to music educators, I teach them  
how to level the table. Almost none of them have EVER heard of this  
process. It makes a world of difference on most student mouthpieces,  
which are rarely flat, and is something even a band director who was a  
percussion major can easily do.


On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, fidlershorns wrote:

> This might not help, Matthew, but I think it is too bad ALL student  
> and intermediate mouthpieces are not hand checked and corrected as  
> needed. A flat table and a balanced curve make the job of learning  
> good tone production possible and more probable, until the  
> mouthpiece is dropped. :-)
>
> Customizations to instruments and cars are dangerous without knowing  
> the why and who well.
>
> E v e r e t t t
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jtalcott47@...> wrote:
> >
> > Let me share some thoughts from the perspective of a career music
> > educator who has taught saxophone students from elementary school
> > through high school and college for over 30 years. A typical  
> student at
> > an elementary performance level on saxophone has not yet developed  
> the
> > control of the tone production or the necessary tonal concepts to
> > benefit from adjustments to their mouthpiece.>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all-
> > >
> > > Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working
> > saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by
> > trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and  
> are at
> > a certain level.
> > >
> > > In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> different
> > saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an alto piece  
> for
> > a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link
> > tenor piece for next to nothing.
> > >
> > > I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> excellently
> > for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> > >
> > > I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> expectations
> > of novice players. While I understand that you can't make everyone
> > happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your  
> losses
> > and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening requests, does the
> > players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the
> > mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work,  
> etc.)?
> > >
> > > thanks all.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> >
>
> 

In my state, and I am sure many others there are yearly clinics and conventions for music educators.  I have attended scores of these over the years and a common workshop presented by the top university woodwind instructors involves the selection of mouthpieces for students of all levels of instruction.  

There are many woodwind mouthpieces of high quality today available to students that are very consistent and play well with no further adjustments required Fobes, Selmer, VanDoren, Rousseau, and even Yamaha plastic to name just a few.

Even music educators who are not woodwind players themselves are knowledgeable about mouthpieces from the clinics and publications that are available to them.  I know it is popular to bash "band teachers" on these forums since most people have an anecdote or two of something stupid their band teacher did or said many years ago.  The fact is that the vast majority of music educators on the scene today are excellent players and musicians themselves and are very well trained and knowledgeable about equipment and teaching methods not only for their area of specialization, but all other band instruments as well.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>
> Whenever I give one of my seminars to music educators, I teach them  
> how to level the table. Almost none of them have EVER heard of this  
> process. It makes a world of difference on most student mouthpieces,  
> which are rarely flat, and is something even a band director who was a  
> percussion major can easily do.
> 
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, fidlershorns wrote:
> 
> > This might not help, Matthew, but I think it is too bad ALL student  
> > and intermediate mouthpieces are not hand checked and corrected as  
> > needed. A flat table and a balanced curve make the job of learning  
> > good tone production possible and more probable, until the  
> > mouthpiece is dropped. :-)
> >
> > Customizations to instruments and cars are dangerous without knowing  
> > the why and who well.
> >
> > E v e r e t t t
> >
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jtalcott47@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Let me share some thoughts from the perspective of a career music
> > > educator who has taught saxophone students from elementary school
> > > through high school and college for over 30 years. A typical  
> > student at
> > > an elementary performance level on saxophone has not yet developed  
> > the
> > > control of the tone production or the necessary tonal concepts to
> > > benefit from adjustments to their mouthpiece.>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all-
> > > >
> > > > Until very recently I've only done mouthpiece work for working
> > > saxophonists in my circle (my brother and I are both saxophonists by
> > > trade). By that I mean guys that have been playing for years and  
> > are at
> > > a certain level.
> > > >
> > > > In the last couple of weeks I did two refacing jobs for two  
> > different
> > > saxophonists at an elementary ability level. One was an alto piece  
> > for
> > > a freshman college student on me (for free) and the other was a Link
> > > tenor piece for next to nothing.
> > > >
> > > > I was quite happy with both pieces (and both pieces played  
> > excellently
> > > for me) but neither of these folks were happy with the result.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I'm looking for some insight on how to manage the  
> > expectations
> > > of novice players. While I understand that you can't make everyone
> > > happy, do any of you offer to rework a piece, or do you cut your  
> > losses
> > > and move on so to speak? Aside from tip opening requests, does the
> > > players ability level dictate your strategy when approaching the
> > > mouthpiece (ie. what type of curve you might choose, baffle work,  
> > etc.)?
> > > >
> > > > thanks all.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

I would delete modern Selmers from the list.  They are similar in consistency to Babbitt-made mouthpieces.  You need to try several to get a good one.  Vandorens are much better.



________________________________
From: John <jtalcott47@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 6:20:07 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Managing expectations



...There are many woodwind mouthpieces of high quality today available to students that are very consistent and play well with no further adjustments required Fobes, Selmer, VanDoren, Rousseau, and even Yamaha plastic to name just a few....


      

I'll have to add to the list, the lowly Runyon Model 22 for the student beginner, for the first few years.

(The 22 was played by Charlie Parker.)

I had one private student whose mouthpiece was stolen from his case at a concert band festival.  He had to have another mouthpiece for a concert a few days later.  I was digging through mouthpieces looking for something for him when he asked, "What about this one?"  Holding up a 22.  I said, "Well, that's considered a beginner's mouthpiece."  While I continued looking he put it on his alto and played.  "I'll take this one, how much?"  And he sounded good, too.  He played it for the rest of high school.

The 22 is also the basis, with minor cosmetic changes (shape of the shank) of the King, Conn Precision, Morgan ProTone, and a number of other OEM mouthpieces.  Runyon manufactures these models and has the stamps for various instrument and mouthpiece manufacturers.  These mouthpieces play well and in tune with just about any instrument on the market.  They have been extensively tested.

Response is easy, and the wide side rails allow for some student misalignment and still cover the facing.  Runyon referred to it as his "squeek resistant facing".  These are the same as the blanks I have sent out to many to learn refacing.

The material is also very good, an engineered "alloy" of acrylic and synthetic rubber that has the same "flex modulus" (meaning it vibrates the same) as premium hard rubber.  It will not warp or break under normal use.  It is a little harder to face than hard rubber, but it will hold the facing for years to come.

I have even had players and teachers listen to blind tests, and they thought the 22 sounded as good as a good Selmer Soloist.

I have found Selmers to be very inconsistent, which is why you hear, "you have to try a lot of them to find a good one."  On the other hand, Vandoren V5's have very consistent facings and play very well.  I've always been surprised more classical and student concert band players are not using Vandoren.

Paul



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I would delete modern Selmers from the list.  They are similar in consistency to Babbitt-made mouthpieces.  You need to try several to get a good one.  Vandorens are much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: John <jtalcott47@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 6:20:07 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Managing expectations
> 
> 
> 
> ...There are many woodwind mouthpieces of high quality today available to students that are very consistent and play well with no further adjustments required Fobes, Selmer, VanDoren, Rousseau, and even Yamaha plastic to name just a few....
>