I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this 
message has some merit.

I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a 
year, I still could not play this in tune.  I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 
reeds on the factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece.  I have used ZZ 
Vandoren reeds as well.  Today, I have just received a straight Bb 
soprano saxophone.  After playing on it a while, I have decided to check 
the tuning with A440.  Even after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 
4, factory and Rousseau mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the 
key of Eb instead of Bb.  I am well within my 45-day trial and I will 
return the instrument very soon for refund.

I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning 
issues and does it "customarily" play flat?

I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.

Please advise.

It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino.  What is the length?  Sopranos play sharp on top .  older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well.   You have to "voice it"  into an even scale with throat and airstream.  I have to do it daily because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear  the the old VI  and I have tried more than 100.  It's a personal thing.  Of course I record them to be sure.  I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it played in tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me sound.  A Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight horn.  I repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:

> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this message has some merit.
> 
> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a year, I still could not play this in tune.  I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 reeds on the factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece.  I have used ZZ Vandoren reeds as well.  Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano saxophone.  After playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with A440.  Even after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and Rousseau mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead of Bb.  I am well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument very soon for refund.
> 
> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
> 
> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.  
> 
> Please advise.
> 

I'm going to repost something Paul posted about this, very helpful:

Barry

--------------
Soprano Saxophone and Intonation

by Paul R. Coats

    "Soprano saxes have intonation problems..." True but so do most musical
instruments. I will show you how to minimize these problems in the following
paragraphs.

    All saxophones have similar inherent intonation tendencies, but they
show up more noticeably on soprano saxophone for a number of reasons. Any
slight change in embouchure tension will cause a greater change in pitch
than is to be expected by the experienced alto or tenor saxophonist.

    A mouthpiece of medium chamber volume and tip opening will give the best
results. The Runyon Custom mouthpiece, with #5 to #7 facing (.050" to .060"
tip opening), will give good results for most players. Try these tip
openings with #2 1/2 to #3 reeds. This mouthpiece has exceptionally good
response in the palm key range.

    The biggest problem to overcome is the tendency to play with improper
embouchure tension. If playing with too little tension, the mouthpiece must
be pushed onto the neck cork too far in order to tune to Concert A or Bb.
The palm keys will be sharp and the low notes flat.
 
   [I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and this is my problem.]

    Too much embouchure tension will require the mouthpiece to be placed too
far out on the cork. The palm key notes will be flat, and probably choke off
when the player attempts to lip them up to pitch. Notes on the other end of
the sax will be sharp. The tone will be strident.

    Here is the easiest way to find the proper embouchure tension. Playing
the mouthpiece and reed only, the player should produce a concert Db, two
octaves and a half step above middle C on the piano. Blow the
mouthpiece/reed repeatedly until this pitch can be produced consistently.
This method of blowing particular pitches with each mouthpiece of the single
reed family is outlined in Santy Runyon's "Suggestions for Woodwind
Players".

    Now place the mouthpiece on the instrument. Using a good tuner (at A =
440 Hz reference), tune the soprano's middle C to concert Bb. Mark the cork
lightly with a pencil. Remove the mouthpiece and recheck the embouchure
tension by blowing the concert Db. Replace the mouthpiece on the cork and
check the middle C tuning note again. Concentrate on using the same
embouchure tension as when blowing the concert Db on the mouthpiece only.
(Some bands and orchestras tune higher than A = 440. This can only cause
problems as modern instruments are designed to play at A = 440.)

    Play up and down the scale and check the pitch of each note with the
tuner. Do not lip notes into tune, but just observe which notes are sharp or
flat, and by how much. Every so often remove the mouthpiece and check the
embouchure tension by blowing the concert Db.

    Check the tuning of middle C and upper C. Check low register A and upper
A. Find the mouthpiece position that is the best compromise for these notes.
Do not lip them into tune. Play them all with the same embouchure tension.
When the best mouthpiece position is found, mark the cork with a pen for
future tuning reference.

    Make sure the octave key is fully depressed for upper register C#. This
is necessary so that the lower half of the aperture assembly will close
fully. A cork or plastic wedge may be glued (using E6000 craft glue) to the
octave key to aid operation of this key.

    Do not "bite" for the palm key notes. These high notes are aided by
slightly raising the tongue position, thus reducing the oral cavity volume
and increasing air-stream velocity. Begin this oral cavity alteration at
high C or C#, and increase it gradually as you ascend to higher pitches.

    On some soprano saxes leave the D palm key closed for high Eb through
F#. This is the advantage of having independent palm keys. If palm key notes
are still sharp, have these pad openings checked and possibly reduced.

    If the middle C (concert Bb) tuning note is in tune but both the lower
and upper register A's are sharp, the G pad may be opening too far. A cork
on the linkage controls this pad¹s opening just over the lower octave vent
on the side of the sax. The octave vent pad and the cork on the linkage
above it may have settled in and compressed. Have a thicker cork put in to
reduce the G pad's opening to the proper setting.

    Do not drop the jaw for low notes. If low notes do not respond easily,
"dope" the pads, or have a repairman check the instrument with a leak light.
Also check that the G# pad does not crack open when fingering low C#, B, or
Bb. If it does, adjust the G# closure.

    When playing a straight soprano sax, hold the body out at about 30 to 45
degrees below horizontal. Do not hold it close to the body like a clarinet
(unless playing a curved neck). The mouthpiece should enter the mouth at
about the same angle as an alto saxophone mouthpiece. Holding the soprano
sax in a near vertical angle will cause the tone to be choked off and likely
to "warble" in the low register.

    If the above suggestions are followed, the soprano saxophone may be
played as well in tune as the other members of the saxophone family.



> From: John Zangrando <sjohn@zangsax.com>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:13:11 -1000
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
> 
> It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino.  What is the length?  Sopranos play sharp
> on top .  older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well.   You have to "voice
> it"  into an even scale with throat and airstream.  I have to do it daily
> because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear  the the old VI
> and I have tried more than 100.  It's a personal thing.  Of course I record
> them to be sure.  I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it played in
> tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me sound.  A
> Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight horn.  I
> repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this message
>> has some merit.
>> 
>> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a year, I
>> still could not play this in tune.  I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 reeds on the
>> factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece.  I have used ZZ Vandoren reeds as
>> well.  Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano saxophone.  After
>> playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with A440.  Even
>> after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and Rousseau
>> mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead of Bb.  I am
>> well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument very soon for
>> refund.
>> 
>> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning
>> issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
>> 
>> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.
>> 
>> Please advise.
>> 
> 
> 

I love my soprano, but it takes continuous attention to keep it sweet. Like
John, I have an older VI, and its resonant tone outweighs its intonation
problems. I have not tried 100 other sopranos though!

Some things I have learned:

€ Mouthpiece exercises playing unison w. concert Db help set the correct
embouchure pressure. (covered in more detail in the repost of a Paul Coates
post)

€ Screw the tuner! Rather, can you play in tune in ensemble and get a blend
that pleases your ear? I think it's more useful to practice unisons and 5ths
sitting next to a keyboard, or to play along with midi files or Aebersolds,
to get practice in playing in tune in ensemble. (Although some Aebersolds
are so sour, they are not helpful at all.)

€ Some soprano mouthpieces seem to have inherently less stable intonation.
It's easier for me to play in tune using a #2 reed on a modified Metalite
(cut shorter and opened to .08") than on a Runyon Custom 9 measuring .072".
This probably varies more by player, rather than by any particular
mouthpieces.

Barry


> From: John Zangrando <sjohn@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:13:11 -1000
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
> 
> It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino.  What is the length?  Sopranos play sharp
> on top .  older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well.   You have to "voice
> it"  into an even scale with throat and airstream.  I have to do it daily
> because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear  the the old VI
> and I have tried more than 100.  It's a personal thing.  Of course I record
> them to be sure.  I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it played in
> tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me sound.  A
> Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight horn.  I
> repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this message
>> has some merit.
>> 
>> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a year, I
>> still could not play this in tune.  I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 reeds on the
>> factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece.  I have used ZZ Vandoren reeds as
>> well.  Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano saxophone.  After
>> playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with A440.  Even
>> after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and Rousseau
>> mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead of Bb.  I am
>> well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument very soon for
>> refund.
>> 
>> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning
>> issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
>> 
>> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.
>> 
>> Please advise.
>> 
> 
> 

One correction, the line "[I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and
this is my problem.]" was my own note I added when archiving this useful
information; it has nothing to do with Paul's embouchure!

Barry

> From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:52:11 -0400
> To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
> 
> I'm going to repost something Paul posted about this, very helpful:
> 
> Barry
> 
> --------------
> Soprano Saxophone and Intonation
> 
> by Paul R. Coats
> 
>   "Soprano saxes have intonation problems..." True but so do most musical
> instruments. I will show you how to minimize these problems in the following
> paragraphs.
> 
>   All saxophones have similar inherent intonation tendencies, but they
> show up more noticeably on soprano saxophone for a number of reasons. Any
> slight change in embouchure tension will cause a greater change in pitch
> than is to be expected by the experienced alto or tenor saxophonist.
> 
>   A mouthpiece of medium chamber volume and tip opening will give the best
> results. The Runyon Custom mouthpiece, with #5 to #7 facing (.050" to .060"
> tip opening), will give good results for most players. Try these tip
> openings with #2 1/2 to #3 reeds. This mouthpiece has exceptionally good
> response in the palm key range.
> 
>   The biggest problem to overcome is the tendency to play with improper
> embouchure tension. If playing with too little tension, the mouthpiece must
> be pushed onto the neck cork too far in order to tune to Concert A or Bb.
> The palm keys will be sharp and the low notes flat.
> 
>  [I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and this is my problem.]
> 
>   Too much embouchure tension will require the mouthpiece to be placed too
> far out on the cork. The palm key notes will be flat, and probably choke off
> when the player attempts to lip them up to pitch. Notes on the other end of
> the sax will be sharp. The tone will be strident.
> 
>   Here is the easiest way to find the proper embouchure tension. Playing
> the mouthpiece and reed only, the player should produce a concert Db, two
> octaves and a half step above middle C on the piano. Blow the
> mouthpiece/reed repeatedly until this pitch can be produced consistently.
> This method of blowing particular pitches with each mouthpiece of the single
> reed family is outlined in Santy Runyon's "Suggestions for Woodwind
> Players".
> 
>   Now place the mouthpiece on the instrument. Using a good tuner (at A =
> 440 Hz reference), tune the soprano's middle C to concert Bb. Mark the cork
> lightly with a pencil. Remove the mouthpiece and recheck the embouchure
> tension by blowing the concert Db. Replace the mouthpiece on the cork and
> check the middle C tuning note again. Concentrate on using the same
> embouchure tension as when blowing the concert Db on the mouthpiece only.
> (Some bands and orchestras tune higher than A = 440. This can only cause
> problems as modern instruments are designed to play at A = 440.)
> 
>   Play up and down the scale and check the pitch of each note with the
> tuner. Do not lip notes into tune, but just observe which notes are sharp or
> flat, and by how much. Every so often remove the mouthpiece and check the
> embouchure tension by blowing the concert Db.
> 
>   Check the tuning of middle C and upper C. Check low register A and upper
> A. Find the mouthpiece position that is the best compromise for these notes.
> Do not lip them into tune. Play them all with the same embouchure tension.
> When the best mouthpiece position is found, mark the cork with a pen for
> future tuning reference.
> 
>   Make sure the octave key is fully depressed for upper register C#. This
> is necessary so that the lower half of the aperture assembly will close
> fully. A cork or plastic wedge may be glued (using E6000 craft glue) to the
> octave key to aid operation of this key.
> 
>   Do not "bite" for the palm key notes. These high notes are aided by
> slightly raising the tongue position, thus reducing the oral cavity volume
> and increasing air-stream velocity. Begin this oral cavity alteration at
> high C or C#, and increase it gradually as you ascend to higher pitches.
> 
>   On some soprano saxes leave the D palm key closed for high Eb through
> F#. This is the advantage of having independent palm keys. If palm key notes
> are still sharp, have these pad openings checked and possibly reduced.
> 
>   If the middle C (concert Bb) tuning note is in tune but both the lower
> and upper register A's are sharp, the G pad may be opening too far. A cork
> on the linkage controls this pad¹s opening just over the lower octave vent
> on the side of the sax. The octave vent pad and the cork on the linkage
> above it may have settled in and compressed. Have a thicker cork put in to
> reduce the G pad's opening to the proper setting.
> 
>   Do not drop the jaw for low notes. If low notes do not respond easily,
> "dope" the pads, or have a repairman check the instrument with a leak light.
> Also check that the G# pad does not crack open when fingering low C#, B, or
> Bb. If it does, adjust the G# closure.
> 
>   When playing a straight soprano sax, hold the body out at about 30 to 45
> degrees below horizontal. Do not hold it close to the body like a clarinet
> (unless playing a curved neck). The mouthpiece should enter the mouth at
> about the same angle as an alto saxophone mouthpiece. Holding the soprano
> sax in a near vertical angle will cause the tone to be choked off and likely
> to "warble" in the low register.
> 
>   If the above suggestions are followed, the soprano saxophone may be
> played as well in tune as the other members of the saxophone family.
> 
> 
> 
>> From: John Zangrando <sjohn@...>
>> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:13:11 -1000
>> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
>> 
>> It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino.  What is the length?  Sopranos play
>> sharp
>> on top .  older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well.   You have to
>> "voice
>> it"  into an even scale with throat and airstream.  I have to do it daily
>> because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear  the the old VI
>> and I have tried more than 100.  It's a personal thing.  Of course I record
>> them to be sure.  I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it played in
>> tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me sound.  A
>> Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight horn.  I
>> repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
>> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this
>>> message
>>> has some merit.
>>> 
>>> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a year,
>>> I
>>> still could not play this in tune.  I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 reeds on
>>> the
>>> factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece.  I have used ZZ Vandoren reeds
>>> as
>>> well.  Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano saxophone.  After
>>> playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with A440.  Even
>>> after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and Rousseau
>>> mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead of Bb.  I am
>>> well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument very soon for
>>> refund.
>>> 
>>> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning
>>> issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
>>> 
>>> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.
>>> 
>>> Please advise.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

I play a later MkVI and use a Bari brand soprano piece.  It works very well and I have two of them.  a 66 and a 70.  I most often play the 70 and use a standard "magic circle" Larry Teal style embouchure.  Gonzalez #3 reeds 'cause they're cut a lot like the old Olivieri reeds.



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Levine 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone


    
  One correction, the line "[I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and
  this is my problem.]" was my own note I added when archiving this useful
  information; it has nothing to do with Paul's embouchure!

  Barry

  > From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@norwoodlight.com>
  > Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:52:11 -0400
  > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
  > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
  > 
  > I'm going to repost something Paul posted about this, very helpful:
  > 
  > Barry
  > 
  > --------------
  > Soprano Saxophone and Intonation
  > 
  > by Paul R. Coats
  > 
  > "Soprano saxes have intonation problems..." True but so do most musical
  > instruments. I will show you how to minimize these problems in the following
  > paragraphs.
  > 
  > All saxophones have similar inherent intonation tendencies, but they
  > show up more noticeably on soprano saxophone for a number of reasons. Any
  > slight change in embouchure tension will cause a greater change in pitch
  > than is to be expected by the experienced alto or tenor saxophonist.
  > 
  > A mouthpiece of medium chamber volume and tip opening will give the best
  > results. The Runyon Custom mouthpiece, with #5 to #7 facing (.050" to .060"
  > tip opening), will give good results for most players. Try these tip
  > openings with #2 1/2 to #3 reeds. This mouthpiece has exceptionally good
  > response in the palm key range.
  > 
  > The biggest problem to overcome is the tendency to play with improper
  > embouchure tension. If playing with too little tension, the mouthpiece must
  > be pushed onto the neck cork too far in order to tune to Concert A or Bb.
  > The palm keys will be sharp and the low notes flat.
  > 
  > [I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and this is my problem.]
  > 
  > Too much embouchure tension will require the mouthpiece to be placed too
  > far out on the cork. The palm key notes will be flat, and probably choke off
  > when the player attempts to lip them up to pitch. Notes on the other end of
  > the sax will be sharp. The tone will be strident.
  > 
  > Here is the easiest way to find the proper embouchure tension. Playing
  > the mouthpiece and reed only, the player should produce a concert Db, two
  > octaves and a half step above middle C on the piano. Blow the
  > mouthpiece/reed repeatedly until this pitch can be produced consistently.
  > This method of blowing particular pitches with each mouthpiece of the single
  > reed family is outlined in Santy Runyon's "Suggestions for Woodwind
  > Players".
  > 
  > Now place the mouthpiece on the instrument. Using a good tuner (at A =
  > 440 Hz reference), tune the soprano's middle C to concert Bb. Mark the cork
  > lightly with a pencil. Remove the mouthpiece and recheck the embouchure
  > tension by blowing the concert Db. Replace the mouthpiece on the cork and
  > check the middle C tuning note again. Concentrate on using the same
  > embouchure tension as when blowing the concert Db on the mouthpiece only.
  > (Some bands and orchestras tune higher than A = 440. This can only cause
  > problems as modern instruments are designed to play at A = 440.)
  > 
  > Play up and down the scale and check the pitch of each note with the
  > tuner. Do not lip notes into tune, but just observe which notes are sharp or
  > flat, and by how much. Every so often remove the mouthpiece and check the
  > embouchure tension by blowing the concert Db.
  > 
  > Check the tuning of middle C and upper C. Check low register A and upper
  > A. Find the mouthpiece position that is the best compromise for these notes.
  > Do not lip them into tune. Play them all with the same embouchure tension.
  > When the best mouthpiece position is found, mark the cork with a pen for
  > future tuning reference.
  > 
  > Make sure the octave key is fully depressed for upper register C#. This
  > is necessary so that the lower half of the aperture assembly will close
  > fully. A cork or plastic wedge may be glued (using E6000 craft glue) to the
  > octave key to aid operation of this key.
  > 
  > Do not "bite" for the palm key notes. These high notes are aided by
  > slightly raising the tongue position, thus reducing the oral cavity volume
  > and increasing air-stream velocity. Begin this oral cavity alteration at
  > high C or C#, and increase it gradually as you ascend to higher pitches.
  > 
  > On some soprano saxes leave the D palm key closed for high Eb through
  > F#. This is the advantage of having independent palm keys. If palm key notes
  > are still sharp, have these pad openings checked and possibly reduced.
  > 
  > If the middle C (concert Bb) tuning note is in tune but both the lower
  > and upper register A's are sharp, the G pad may be opening too far. A cork
  > on the linkage controls this pad¹s opening just over the lower octave vent
  > on the side of the sax. The octave vent pad and the cork on the linkage
  > above it may have settled in and compressed. Have a thicker cork put in to
  > reduce the G pad's opening to the proper setting.
  > 
  > Do not drop the jaw for low notes. If low notes do not respond easily,
  > "dope" the pads, or have a repairman check the instrument with a leak light.
  > Also check that the G# pad does not crack open when fingering low C#, B, or
  > Bb. If it does, adjust the G# closure.
  > 
  > When playing a straight soprano sax, hold the body out at about 30 to 45
  > degrees below horizontal. Do not hold it close to the body like a clarinet
  > (unless playing a curved neck). The mouthpiece should enter the mouth at
  > about the same angle as an alto saxophone mouthpiece. Holding the soprano
  > sax in a near vertical angle will cause the tone to be choked off and likely
  > to "warble" in the low register.
  > 
  > If the above suggestions are followed, the soprano saxophone may be
  > played as well in tune as the other members of the saxophone family.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >> From: John Zangrando <sjohn@...>
  >> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
  >> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:13:11 -1000
  >> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
  >> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
  >> 
  >> It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino. What is the length? Sopranos play
  >> sharp
  >> on top . older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well. You have to
  >> "voice
  >> it" into an even scale with throat and airstream. I have to do it daily
  >> because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear the the old VI
  >> and I have tried more than 100. It's a personal thing. Of course I record
  >> them to be sure. I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it played in
  >> tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me sound. A
  >> Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight horn. I
  >> repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
  >> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:
  >> 
  >>> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think this
  >>> message
  >>> has some merit.
  >>> 
  >>> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and after a year,
  >>> I
  >>> still could not play this in tune. I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4 reeds on
  >>> the
  >>> factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece. I have used ZZ Vandoren reeds
  >>> as
  >>> well. Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano saxophone. After
  >>> playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with A440. Even
  >>> after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and Rousseau
  >>> mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead of Bb. I am
  >>> well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument very soon for
  >>> refund.
  >>> 
  >>> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own tuning
  >>> issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
  >>> 
  >>> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments at all.
  >>> 
  >>> Please advise.
  >>> 
  >> 
  >> 
  > 
  > 



  

I play with a very loose embouchure and a soft reed.....I think the  
important concept for successful soprano playing is "pitch imaging":  
you must mentally "hear" the pitch BEFORE you actually sound it.....I  
have my students co the following exercise:

(1) identify the notes giving you problems
(2) play the note and observe the results with a GOOD tuner
(3) remove the horn from your mouth, take your hands completely off  
the horn, and totally reset every aspect of your body with  
relationship to the horn
(4) try again (and again and again, if necessary) until you  an hit  
the note dead on
(5) when you can hit the note dead on, sustain it as a long tone as  
long as possible to "teach" your body what it feels like to play that  
note properly

Soprano saxes can be fussy and unforgiving. If it is giving you  
problems (and you have a reasonably good instrument) the only solution  
I have found that gives long term results is the exercise above. The  
problem usually lies with the player, not the equipment.l know when I  
decided to take up the sopranino and had to concentrate on pitch, my  
intonation on all my other saxophones improved. I believe that the  
smaller the saxophone, the less forgiving it is of bad playing habits.



On Apr 7, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Barry Levine wrote:

> One correction, the line "[I play with a loose embouchure and soft  
> reed, and
> this is my problem.]" was my own note I added when archiving this  
> useful
> information; it has nothing to do with Paul's embouchure!
>
> Barry
>
> > From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
> > Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:52:11 -0400
> > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
> >
> > I'm going to repost something Paul posted about this, very helpful:
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > --------------
> > Soprano Saxophone and Intonation
> >
> > by Paul R. Coats
> >
> > "Soprano saxes have intonation problems..." True but so do most  
> musical
> > instruments. I will show you how to minimize these problems in the  
> following
> > paragraphs.
> >
> > All saxophones have similar inherent intonation tendencies, but they
> > show up more noticeably on soprano saxophone for a number of  
> reasons. Any
> > slight change in embouchure tension will cause a greater change in  
> pitch
> > than is to be expected by the experienced alto or tenor saxophonist.
> >
> > A mouthpiece of medium chamber volume and tip opening will give  
> the best
> > results. The Runyon Custom mouthpiece, with #5 to #7 facing (.050"  
> to .060"
> > tip opening), will give good results for most players. Try these tip
> > openings with #2 1/2 to #3 reeds. This mouthpiece has  
> exceptionally good
> > response in the palm key range.
> >
> > The biggest problem to overcome is the tendency to play with  
> improper
> > embouchure tension. If playing with too little tension, the  
> mouthpiece must
> > be pushed onto the neck cork too far in order to tune to Concert A  
> or Bb.
> > The palm keys will be sharp and the low notes flat.
> >
> > [I play with a loose embouchure and soft reed, and this is my  
> problem.]
> >
> > Too much embouchure tension will require the mouthpiece to be  
> placed too
> > far out on the cork. The palm key notes will be flat, and probably  
> choke off
> > when the player attempts to lip them up to pitch. Notes on the  
> other end of
> > the sax will be sharp. The tone will be strident.
> >
> > Here is the easiest way to find the proper embouchure tension.  
> Playing
> > the mouthpiece and reed only, the player should produce a concert  
> Db, two
> > octaves and a half step above middle C on the piano. Blow the
> > mouthpiece/reed repeatedly until this pitch can be produced  
> consistently.
> > This method of blowing particular pitches with each mouthpiece of  
> the single
> > reed family is outlined in Santy Runyon's "Suggestions for Woodwind
> > Players".
> >
> > Now place the mouthpiece on the instrument. Using a good tuner (at  
> A =
> > 440 Hz reference), tune the soprano's middle C to concert Bb. Mark  
> the cork
> > lightly with a pencil. Remove the mouthpiece and recheck the  
> embouchure
> > tension by blowing the concert Db. Replace the mouthpiece on the  
> cork and
> > check the middle C tuning note again. Concentrate on using the same
> > embouchure tension as when blowing the concert Db on the  
> mouthpiece only.
> > (Some bands and orchestras tune higher than A = 440. This can only  
> cause
> > problems as modern instruments are designed to play at A = 440.)
> >
> > Play up and down the scale and check the pitch of each note with the
> > tuner. Do not lip notes into tune, but just observe which notes  
> are sharp or
> > flat, and by how much. Every so often remove the mouthpiece and  
> check the
> > embouchure tension by blowing the concert Db.
> >
> > Check the tuning of middle C and upper C. Check low register A and  
> upper
> > A. Find the mouthpiece position that is the best compromise for  
> these notes.
> > Do not lip them into tune. Play them all with the same embouchure  
> tension.
> > When the best mouthpiece position is found, mark the cork with a  
> pen for
> > future tuning reference.
> >
> > Make sure the octave key is fully depressed for upper register C#.  
> This
> > is necessary so that the lower half of the aperture assembly will  
> close
> > fully. A cork or plastic wedge may be glued (using E6000 craft  
> glue) to the
> > octave key to aid operation of this key.
> >
> > Do not "bite" for the palm key notes. These high notes are aided by
> > slightly raising the tongue position, thus reducing the oral  
> cavity volume
> > and increasing air-stream velocity. Begin this oral cavity  
> alteration at
> > high C or C#, and increase it gradually as you ascend to higher  
> pitches.
> >
> > On some soprano saxes leave the D palm key closed for high Eb  
> through
> > F#. This is the advantage of having independent palm keys. If palm  
> key notes
> > are still sharp, have these pad openings checked and possibly  
> reduced.
> >
> > If the middle C (concert Bb) tuning note is in tune but both the  
> lower
> > and upper register A's are sharp, the G pad may be opening too  
> far. A cork
> > on the linkage controls this pad’s opening just over the lower  
> octave vent
> > on the side of the sax. The octave vent pad and the cork on the  
> linkage
> > above it may have settled in and compressed. Have a thicker cork  
> put in to
> > reduce the G pad's opening to the proper setting.
> >
> > Do not drop the jaw for low notes. If low notes do not respond  
> easily,
> > "dope" the pads, or have a repairman check the instrument with a  
> leak light.
> > Also check that the G# pad does not crack open when fingering low  
> C#, B, or
> > Bb. If it does, adjust the G# closure.
> >
> > When playing a straight soprano sax, hold the body out at about 30  
> to 45
> > degrees below horizontal. Do not hold it close to the body like a  
> clarinet
> > (unless playing a curved neck). The mouthpiece should enter the  
> mouth at
> > about the same angle as an alto saxophone mouthpiece. Holding the  
> soprano
> > sax in a near vertical angle will cause the tone to be choked off  
> and likely
> > to "warble" in the low register.
> >
> > If the above suggestions are followed, the soprano saxophone may be
> > played as well in tune as the other members of the saxophone family.
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: John Zangrando <sjohn@...>
> >> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:13:11 -1000
> >> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] The Soprano Saxophone
> >>
> >> It it plays in Eb it is a sopranino. What is the length? Sopranos  
> play
> >> sharp
> >> on top . older MK VI's play sharp on the bottom as well. You have  
> to
> >> "voice
> >> it" into an even scale with throat and airstream. I have to do it  
> daily
> >> because I haven't found one with a sound as good to my ear the  
> the old VI
> >> and I have tried more than 100. It's a personal thing. Of course  
> I record
> >> them to be sure. I just repaired a Belcrest asian VI copy and it  
> played in
> >> tune better than my VI and had a very nice but not quite for me  
> sound. A
> >> Yanigisawa curved sop plays in tune as well as a good straight  
> horn. I
> >> repaired a Vespro curved recently that tuned very well also.
> >> On Apr 7, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bro. Luby D. Jackson wrote:
> >>
> >>> I don't know if this is a mouthpiece question or not but I think  
> this
> >>> message
> >>> has some merit.
> >>>
> >>> I have purchased a curved soprano saxophone two years ago and  
> after a year,
> >>> I
> >>> still could not play this in tune. I've used Vandoren 3.5 and 4  
> reeds on
> >>> the
> >>> factory mouthpiece and Rousseau mouthpiece. I have used ZZ  
> Vandoren reeds
> >>> as
> >>> well. Today, I have just received a straight Bb soprano  
> saxophone. After
> >>> playing on it a while, I have decided to check the tuning with  
> A440. Even
> >>> after trying all the combinations of ZZ 3.5, 4, factory and  
> Rousseau
> >>> mouthpiece, the instrument still plays to the key of Eb instead  
> of Bb. I am
> >>> well within my 45-day trial and I will return the instrument  
> very soon for
> >>> refund.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to know does the Bb Soprano Saxophone have it's own  
> tuning
> >>> issues and does it "customarily" play flat?
> >>>
> >>> I don't have these tuning issues with my other wind instruments  
> at all.
> >>>
> >>> Please advise.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>