I recently did a job for an altoist who wanted to modify his STM to more closely resemble a Master Link/4****.  I closed the tip, removed more material from the sidewalls, and took the baffle down almost completely.

He is very happy with the lower register, but commented that the upper register sounds a bit thin/squeezed to him.  His expectation was that lowering the baffle would've had the opposite result.

What am I missing here?

Thanks all.

Matt

You may be missing how to deal with irrational clients.  Most clients are "normal" but there will be outliers.  This is an art rarely discussed.

If the client visits you, you can try putting temporary putty in the mouthpiece to illustrate how different it sounds with and without it.  You can also have him play other mouthpieces they own side-by-side it so you can hear what they think they hear.  You can play it too.  There may be an embouchure and reed selection issue.




________________________________
From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:07:42 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Lower baffle/thinner upper register?

  
I recently did a job for an altoist who wanted to modify his STM to more closely resemble a Master Link/4****. I closed the tip, removed more material from the sidewalls, and took the baffle down almost completely.

He is very happy with the lower register, but commented that the upper register sounds a bit thin/squeezed to him. His expectation was that lowering the baffle would've had the opposite result.

What am I missing here?

Thanks all.

Matt





      

Thanks Keith, this is what I suspected.

I also suggested moving up in reed strength and taking in a bit more mouthpiece as I lengthened the facing as well.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> You may be missing how to deal with irrational clients.  Most clients are "normal" but there will be outliers.  This is an art rarely discussed.
> 
> If the client visits you, you can try putting temporary putty in the mouthpiece to illustrate how different it sounds with and without it.  You can also have him play other mouthpieces they own side-by-side it so you can hear what they think they hear.  You can play it too.  There may be an embouchure and reed selection issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Matthew <matthew.voss@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:07:42 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Lower baffle/thinner upper register?
> 
>   
> I recently did a job for an altoist who wanted to modify his STM to more closely resemble a Master Link/4****. I closed the tip, removed more material from the sidewalls, and took the baffle down almost completely.
> 
> He is very happy with the lower register, but commented that the upper register sounds a bit thin/squeezed to him. His expectation was that lowering the baffle would've had the opposite result.
> 
> What am I missing here?
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Matt
>

Is it only thinner for him, or for you too?


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Thanks Keith, this is what I suspected.
> 
> I also suggested moving up in reed strength and taking in a bit more mouthpiece as I lengthened the facing as well.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> >
> > You may be missing how to deal with irrational clients.  Most clients are "normal" but there will be outliers.  This is an art rarely discussed.
> > 
> > If the client visits you, you can try putting temporary putty in the mouthpiece to illustrate how different it sounds with and without it.  You can also have him play other mouthpieces they own side-by-side it so you can hear what they think they hear.  You can play it too.  There may be an embouchure and reed selection issue.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Matthew <matthew.voss@>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 1:07:42 PM
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Lower baffle/thinner upper register?
> > 
> >   
> > I recently did a job for an altoist who wanted to modify his STM to more closely resemble a Master Link/4****. I closed the tip, removed more material from the sidewalls, and took the baffle down almost completely.
> > 
> > He is very happy with the lower register, but commented that the upper register sounds a bit thin/squeezed to him. His expectation was that lowering the baffle would've had the opposite result.
> > 
> > What am I missing here?
> > 
> > Thanks all.
> > 
> > Matt
> >
>

No!  To me it sounded much "bigger" and more full (throughout the entire range of the horn) than his other pieces which included a meyer, jody jazz, morgan, and several tone edges.

It just seems counterintuitive to me that the upper register would get thinner after taking down the baffle to almost nothing...

Of course, his perception does matter to me.  This happens to be the most 'high profile' job I've done yet.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Is it only thinner for him, or for you too?
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@> wrote:
> >

Well, if it's too thin for him, it wants sorting, I suppose.  I find baffle height impacts this more than length.  Also some things about the facing curve.  I don't know what kind of curve you put on it, but too high toward the front can make the top end feel too tight and weak, too low can make it edgier and thinner.  You won't get a huge change from the back end of the facing, but if anything your guy's feedback says shorten it a bit.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> No!  To me it sounded much "bigger" and more full (throughout the entire range of the horn) than his other pieces which included a meyer, jody jazz, morgan, and several tone edges.
> 
> It just seems counterintuitive to me that the upper register would get thinner after taking down the baffle to almost nothing...
> 
> Of course, his perception does matter to me.  This happens to be the most 'high profile' job I've done yet.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Is it only thinner for him, or for you too?
> > 
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@> wrote:
> > >
>

You went to a narrower facing - after this change, he probably needs a
harder reed (as you suggested), or he needs to adjust his embouchure - more
relaxed, and to understand the mouthpiece now will play softer and less
efficiently.

Taking down the baffle may open the lower register, but it also reduces the
perceived efficiency of the mouthpiece.  So he'll be working harder to get
his former acoustic output. Which might exacerbate a tendency to bite too
hard.
> 
> 
> No!  To me it sounded much "bigger" and more full (throughout the entire range
> of the horn) than his other pieces which included a meyer, jody jazz, morgan,
> and several tone edges.
> 
> It just seems counterintuitive to me that the upper register would get thinner
> after taking down the baffle to almost nothing...
> 
> Of course, his perception does matter to me.  This happens to be the most
> 'high profile' job I've done yet.
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Morgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Is it only thinner for him, or for you too?
>> 
>> 
>> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <matthew.voss@> wrote:
>>> 
> 
> 

Good question. It may simply be that the upper register sounds thinner in comparison to a newly expanded low register that it did before, even though the upper register may actually not be as bright.

Another point is that changing the baffle affects the composition of the partials, but this is not exactly the same as the registers. My guess is that closing the tip changed the way the mpc plays, and it has made the feel of playing the high register different. I would check the end of the curve
 to make sure that it is not too flat (maybe a bit more curve right at the tip rail?).

If the curve feels OK perhaps taking down some material just behind the tip rail will help. This is a critical area for reed response, and it may be that while you took down the baffle overall, it is relatively high just behind the tip rail.

Just some speculations....

Toby

Matthew <matthew.voss@...> wrote:                                           I recently did a job for an altoist who wanted to modify his STM to more closely resemble a Master Link/4****.  I closed the tip, removed more material from the sidewalls, and took the baffle down almost
 completely.
 
 He is very happy with the lower register, but commented that the upper register sounds a bit thin/squeezed to him.  His expectation was that lowering the baffle would've had the opposite result.
 
 What am I missing here?
 
 Thanks all.
 
 Matt