I posted this on Friday but got no responders so I'll try it a second time. I was wondering if someone out would be kind enough to give me their views on the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern mouthpieces. Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone" asserts there is a real problem with putting a modern mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to share their thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns and would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a vintage horn.

Short easy answer:  modern mouthpieces tend to have smaller chambers and thus less overall volume inside the piece.  This includes modern versions of classic mouthpieces, such as Otto Links and Meyers.  The new versions are designed to match modern horns and more modern sounds.  There has been significant discussion here lately about the mouthpiece needing to make up the volume of the missing part of the truncated cone of the sax body/neck.  Although it has veered into esoterica somewhat, there is validity to one point.  If the volume inside the mouthpiece is a significant MISMATCH for the missing cone volume, trouble will ensue, most noticeably in intonation.  This is probably the main reason that C-Melody saxes cannot be successfully played with either alto or tenor mouthpieces.  Neither matches the correct volume.  Vintage saxes were designed to use very large-chamber mouthpieces and can suffer with small chambers.  You might want to look for a Link
 STM NY chamber or something else with a large chamber, like a vintage piece, for best results on an old horn.

A recent personal example:  When I acquired my Conn 10M a couple of years ago, it came with a Berg Larson 90/2 stainless steel mouthpiece.  It responded well, but I very much disliked the sound it produced on the horn, so it went in the drawer.  A couple of months ago I got a Cannonball Vintage series tenor, which is essentially a Mark VI clone, a later bore design.  The Berg SINGS on that horn.  And conversely, my Links, that play great on the Conn, lose some edge and power on the Cannonball.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!


--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Lance <entropicwolf@...> wrote:

> From: Lance <entropicwolf@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] vintage vs modern mouthpieces redux
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 7:01 PM
> I posted this on Friday but got no
> responders so I'll try it a second time. I was wondering if
> someone out would be kind enough to give me their views on
> the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern
> mouthpieces. Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone"
> asserts there is a real problem with putting a modern
> mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to share their
> thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns
> and would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a
> vintage horn.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
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> 


      

It's really about chamber size and baffles...most modern mouthpieces have
smaller chambers and higher baffles....a couple of makers offer large
chamber/low baffle pieces that work very well on older horns.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Lance
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:01 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] vintage vs modern mouthpieces redux

 

  

I posted this on Friday but got no responders so I'll try it a second time.
I was wondering if someone out would be kind enough to give me their views
on the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern mouthpieces.
Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone" asserts there is a real
problem with putting a modern mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to
share their thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns and
would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a vintage horn.

I think modern mouthpieces can be used on vintage saxes just fine and vice versa.  Modern mouthpieces look like they have smaller chambers but most also have longer lengths.  So their chamber volumes are similar.  They are long and thin vs short and fat.  Sure, certain sax, mouthpiece, reed and player combos will work better than others.  But that does not mean that a vintage mouthpiece is always a better choice on a vintage sax.  Try variations for your self.

I find when your palm keys play sharp (and/or the bell notes are flat), you should try a mouthpiece that has a smaller chamber so you can pull it out more (or it may have a longer shank).  But I have heard stories where players have tried the opposite, a larger chamber mouthpiece, and believe they have solved their problem.  I think they must have changed their embouchure some too with the mouthpiece switch.  But the important thing is to try something different.



________________________________
From: Lance <entropicwolf@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 7:01:03 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] vintage vs modern mouthpieces redux

  
I posted this on Friday but got no responders so I'll try it a second time. I was wondering if someone out would be kind enough to give me their views on the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern mouthpieces. Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone" asserts there is a real problem with putting a modern mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to share their thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns and would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a vintage horn.





      

Yes it is true in some extreme situation due to the factors already explained but I really had no problems using moderns (mainly custom) or old mouthpieces on my vintage saxophones (and I have many of them).
I think the player also makes the difference... :), if you are good enough you can compensate. 

Dan



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Lance" <entropicwolf@...> wrote:
>
> I posted this on Friday but got no responders so I'll try it a second time. I was wondering if someone out would be kind enough to give me their views on the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern mouthpieces. Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone" asserts there is a real problem with putting a modern mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to share their thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns and would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a vintage horn.
>

My experience with various modern/vintage horns (and a mouthpiece or two) is
that the difficulty in matching up a mouthpiece to a horn (with regards to
intonation which I assume is the primary concern) has very little to do with
the age of what's on either side of the neck cork.

It can be challenging to match up certain mouthpieces which have extremely
large or small chambers with a given horn.  Sometimes it just won't work
without making radical changes to the interior of the mouthpiece or playing
with key heights.  My personal opinion is that it's not worth modifying a
mouthpiece internally to compensate for intonation struggles.  There are too
many other variables which can cause intonation problems such as horn set-up
and embouchure/technique and a satisfactory outcome of modification is not
guaranteed - thus I generally advise players with intonation issues to move
on and try other mouthpieces.

The player's technique has a LOT to do with what set-ups will play in tune,
so considerable exploration may be required in some circumstances.

The most significant/consistent incompatibility I've experienced both first
and second-hand is Conn 10M's not tuning well with small-chambered
mouthpieces - just not enough neck length to pull it out far enough and
taking that too far presents other problems when balancing the volume/length
requirements for intonation at either end of the horn's compass.  Putting a
small-chambered mouthpiece on older Selmer horns does not seem to be as
"problematic".  This is the only trend I've personally experienced when it
comes to matching up old horns with newer mouthpieces.

I'll reiterate... the PLAYER has as much to do with how well a set-up will
play in tune as the mouthpiece design.  And this is not saying that the
player's approach is "wrong" - there are physiological factors which
sometimes have to be accomodated.

>   --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Lance" <entropicwolf@...> wrote:
> >
> > I posted this on Friday but got no responders so I'll try it a second
> time. I was wondering if someone out would be kind enough to give me their
> views on the difference between vintage mouthpieces vs modern mouthpieces.
> Pinksterboer, in his book "Tipbook Saxophone" asserts there is a real
> problem with putting a modern mouthpiece on a vintage sax. Anyone care to
> share their thoughts. I am particularly interested in the older horns and
> would like to know about hooking up a modern mpc with a vintage horn.
>