I know that the Runyon "Spoiler" insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo,
and that Runyon holds the patent. I'm interested in experimenting with this
sort of thing, and can't find anything else that has been used other than
some baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?

 

 

sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc

STEVE GOODSON

SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS         

 

our products are ALL rated 

 

cid:339191121@25022009-09F4

 

Steve is a member of

hd_logo NAMMbelieve2nasaconf_GIF

 

 

PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
 <http://www.nationofmusic.com/> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail sales
and discussion forum)
 <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/>
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/  (discussion group)
 <http://www.saxgourmet.com/> http://www.saxgourmet.com/  (saxophone history
and information)
 <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/  (my personal saxophone blog)

 

READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE JOURNAL
The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves

BASIC SHOP RATE................$100/HR

IF YOU WATCH.....................$125/HR

IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS......$150/HR

IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT 

LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN

YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/HR

 

The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's
also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson

 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
all copies of the original message.

 

Joe Smallwood's site is still up but he has been MIA for years.  He has/had some insrts:

http://mouthpieceworks.com/

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>
> I know that the Runyon "Spoiler" insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo,
> and that Runyon holds the patent. I'm interested in experimenting with this
> sort of thing, and can't find anything else that has been used other than
> some baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
> 
> STEVE GOODSON
> 
> SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS         
> 
>  
> 
> our products are ALL rated 
> 
>  
> 
> cid:339191121@25022009-09F4
> 
>  
> 
> Steve is a member of
> 
> hd_logo NAMMbelieve2nasaconf_GIF
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
>  <http://www.nationofmusic.com/> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail sales
> and discussion forum)
>  <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/>
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/  (discussion group)
>  <http://www.saxgourmet.com/> http://www.saxgourmet.com/  (saxophone history
> and information)
>  <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/  (my personal saxophone blog)
> 
>  
> 
> READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE JOURNAL
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves
> 
> BASIC SHOP RATE................$100/HR
> 
> IF YOU WATCH.....................$125/HR
> 
> IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS......$150/HR
> 
> IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT 
> 
> LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN
> 
> YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/HR
> 
>  
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's
> also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
>  
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
> and privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized
> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
> all copies of the original message.
>

Thanks, Keith...I had forgotten about those and didn't have that site
bookmarked......does anybody here have any experience with the chamber
inserts of this type?

 

We've considered offering some baffles for sale that players could install
in their own mouthpieces, and have made some prototypes. They're really
pretty basic, but work pretty well. I recall that in the mid-90's somebody
was selling some adhesive egg shaped inserts that were all the rage among
tenor players here in New Orleans, although I haven't seen any for years.

 

I know the Runyon Spoiler works pretty well, and I don't fully understand
the function of the secondary reed in spite of Santy's explanations to me
during my lessons. Like a lot of his designs, I always thought the Spoiler
had a serious amount of Voodoo about it, but there is NO question that it
worked, which is the only important thing. Santy gave me a box full of
assorted sized Spoilers and I've tried them with various degrees of success
in other mouthpieces. I think there is more work that can be done in this
insert area, and I am interested in pursuing it.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of MojoBari
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 9:43 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 

  

Joe Smallwood's site is still up but he has been MIA for years. He has/had
some insrts:

http://mouthpieceworks.com/

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@...>
wrote:
>
> I know that the Runyon "Spoiler" insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo,
> and that Runyon holds the patent. I'm interested in experimenting with
this
> sort of thing, and can't find anything else that has been used other than
> some baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
> 
> STEVE GOODSON
> 
> SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS 
> 
> 
> 
> our products are ALL rated 
> 
> 
> 
> cid:339191121@25022009-09F4
> 
> 
> 
> Steve is a member of
> 
> hd_logo NAMMbelieve2nasaconf_GIF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
> <http://www.nationofmusic.com/> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail
sales
> and discussion forum)
> <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/>
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/ (discussion group)
> <http://www.saxgourmet.com/> http://www.saxgourmet.com/ (saxophone history
> and information)
> <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/ (my personal saxophone blog)
> 
> 
> 
> READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE
JOURNAL
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves
> 
> BASIC SHOP RATE................$100/HR
> 
> IF YOU WATCH.....................$125/HR
> 
> IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS......$150/HR
> 
> IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT 
> 
> LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN
> 
> YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/HR
> 
> 
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs.
There's
> also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
> and privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized
> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
> all copies of the original message.
>

The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone baffles.  You can find them via Google.

The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO.  I have clipped them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached.  All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.

I wonder just how much the spoiler actually vibrates. I'd think that it
would have a fixed frequency - it's a metal strip clamped at one end.

Not having one of these mouthpieces (although just ordered one recently,
awaiting), I've added flexible spoilers to various wedges I've made, based
on pictures of the Runyon spoilers, and can't say I noticed much of a
difference with or without.

Maybe his are twangier than the ones I made.

This looks like the patent:

http://tinyurl.com/ybupf26
> 
> From: "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:37:34 -0600
> To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Mouthpiece inserts
> 

> 
> I know that the Runyon ³Spoiler² insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo, and
> that Runyon holds the patent. I¹m interested in experimenting with this sort
> of thing, and can¹t find anything else that has been used other than some
> baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
> 
> STEVE GOODSON
> 
> SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS
> 
> 
> 
> our products are ALL rated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve is a member of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail sales and discussion forum)
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/ (discussion group)
> http://www.saxgourmet.com/ (saxophone history and information)
> http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/  (my personal saxophone blog)
> 
> 
> 
> READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE JOURNAL
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway
> where thieves
> 
> BASIC SHOP RATE................$100/HR
> 
> IF YOU WATCH.....................$125/HR
> 
> IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS......$150/HR
> 
> IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT
> 
> LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN
> 
> YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/HR
> 
> 
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway
> where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a
> negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized review,
> use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of
> the original message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material in the chamber of the mouthpiece.  Otherwise intonation problems are created.  

I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, and vice versa.

John

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone baffles.  You can find them via Google.
> 
> The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO.  I have clipped them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached.  All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
>

I would think that the relatively sluggish moving mass of an internal metal or plastic reed would only cost the system energy - to be avoided as sympathetic body tube vibrations are.




________________________________
From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:25:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Mouthpiece inserts

  
I wonder just how much the spoiler actually vibrates. I'd think that it
would have a fixed frequency - it's a metal strip clamped at one end.

Not having one of these mouthpieces (although just ordered one recently,
awaiting), I've added flexible spoilers to various wedges I've made, based
on pictures of the Runyon spoilers, and can't say I noticed much of a
difference with or without.

Maybe his are twangier than the ones I made.

This looks like the patent:

http://tinyurl. com/ybupf26
> 
> From: "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@cox. net>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:37:34 -0600
> To: <MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Mouthpiece inserts
> 

> 
> I know that the Runyon ³Spoiler² insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo, and
> that Runyon holds the patent. I¹m interested in experimenting with this sort
> of thing, and can¹t find anything else that has been used other than some
> baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
> 
> STEVE GOODSON
> 
> SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS
> 
> 
> 
> our products are ALL rated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve is a member of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail sales and discussion forum)
> http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ SaxophoneRepair/ (discussion group)
> http://www.saxgourmet.com/ (saxophone history and information)
> http://saxophonetho ughts.blogspot. com/ (my personal saxophone blog)
> 
> 
> 
> READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE JOURNAL
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway
> where thieves
> 
> BASIC SHOP RATE........ ........$ 100/HR
> 
> IF YOU WATCH....... ......... .....$125/ HR
> 
> IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS... ...$150/HR
> 
> IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT
> 
> LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN
> 
> YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/ HR
> 
> 
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway
> where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a
> negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized review,
> use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of
> the original message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


 


      

What we have in mind is a glue in baffle insert such as was used on the
Runyon made Brilhart metal mouthpieces...one of my vendors made up some
"blanks" for us and we're still figuring out the shape and sizes....it looks
like they are going to have to be glued in to work properly, as so far a
simple "tension fit" doesn't seem to stay where I want it to for any length
of time...do you think there is a market? I've also made up some metal ones,
but they require soldering skills for installation, and the average player
lacks the skills and equipment to properly install them.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of MojoBari
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:14 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 

  

The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone baffles.
You can find them via Google.

The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped them off
and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached. All
that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.

When you add material for a baffle inside a mouthpiece, it is usually not a lot of volume.  The player just needs to pull out the mouthpiece by 1/32"-1/16" to compensate.  Some do not pull out at all and just play a little looser.  They like the sound combo of more baffle and a looser embouchure.  
 
  

________________________________

From: John <jtalcott47@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:55:10 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are created. 

I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, and vice versa.

John

--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@ ...> wrote:
>
> The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone baffles. You can find them via Google.
> 
> The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached. All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
>





      

Hal> I too find that inserts cause serious intonation problems.  For me 
it is a last resort and I advise against it.

John wrote:
>
> It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle 
> is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume 
> taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of 
> material in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation 
> problems are created.
>
> I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on 
> this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his 
> vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, 
> and vice versa.
>
> John
>

Thanks Keith.  That makes sense.  It still seems to me that a novice
putting a baffle into a mouthpiece that wasn't designed for one in the
first place would be a real crap shoot.  Have you modified any customers
mouthpieces by adding a baffle at their request?  How difficult is that
to do without making other adjustments to insures the piece plays
properly?

John


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
wrote:
>
> When you add material for a baffle inside a mouthpiece, it is usually
not a lot of volume.  The player just needs to pull out the
mouthpiece by 1/32"-1/16" to compensate.  Some do not pull out at
all and just play a little looser.  They like the sound combo of
more baffle and a looser embouchure.Â
> Â
> Â
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: John jtalcott47@...
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:55:10 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
>
> It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle
is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume
taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material
in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are
created.
>
> I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on
this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his
vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else,
and vice versa.
>
> John
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
baffles. You can find them via Google.
> >
> > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped
them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds
attached. All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
> >
>

Ernie is pulling your leg....that is not correct unless you make MASSIVE
changes in the internal volume....minor changes are easy to deal with
through changing the placement of the mouthpiece on the cork, as Keith
stated..if what you contend he said was correct, every horn would have one
and one only mouthpiece that worked, and we know that is not the case

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 

  

It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle is put
into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume taken away
must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material in the chamber
of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are created. 

I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on this
topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his vest, he does
describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, and vice versa.

John

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...>
wrote:
>
> The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
baffles. You can find them via Google.
> 
> The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped them off
and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached. All
that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
>

I do a bunch of added baffles for my clients.  Some are removable and some are semi-permanent.  Most use a pea-sized amount of epoxy putty.  If they are looking for a lot more than that, I start taking some material out of the chamber.  That is, unless they say the have sharp palm keys.  In that case the added material will help the player.  But I rarely add that much material.  Most clients are looking for a small change.

This type of work is best done during a visit.  We can try several shapes, sizes, and locations using temporary putty.  Then when we find something they like, I can make it out of quick-set epoxy putty.  Since visits are not practical for most of my clients, I encourage them to experiment with temporary putty on their own if they are looking for added projection and brightness.  Then they can send me a shape they like.  But most just want me to take a shot at it based on their verbal description of what changes they are looking for.  If it is not right, they just need to send it back for an adjustment. 


________________________________
From: John <jtalcott47@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 6:08:50 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

  
Thanks Keith. That makes sense. It still seems to me that a novice
putting a baffle into a mouthpiece that wasn't designed for one in the
first place would be a real crap shoot. Have you modified any customers
mouthpieces by adding a baffle at their request? How difficult is that
to do without making other adjustments to insures the piece plays
properly?

John

--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...>
wrote:
>
> When you add material for a baffle inside a mouthpiece, it is usually
not a lot of volume. The player just needs to pull out the
mouthpiece by 1/32"-1/16" to compensate. Some do not pull out at
all and just play a little looser. They like the sound combo of
more baffle and a looser embouchure.Â
> Â
> Â
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
> From: John jtalcott47@. ..
> To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:55:10 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
>
> It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle
is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume
taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material
in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are
created.
>
> I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on
this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his
vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else,
and vice versa.
>
> John
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
baffles. You can find them via Google.
> >
> > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped
them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds
attached. All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
> >
>





      

I suggest you experiment.  If you look at pix of the Runyon "spoilers", you
can get a sense of what's common - and bear in mind that the Runyons play
with and without baffle inserts.

I started making them some years ago after seeing some pictures online, and
I have not noticed intonation problems, except possibly with some soprano
pieces (and soprano is hard enough to play sweetly, as it is.) I posted some
pictures a while back of a few.

Often they can wedge firmly in place and stay put quite well, if they are
shaped accurately enough.

One interesting thing I noticed was that on all mouthpieces I've done this
for, the passage towards the throat gradually narrows.  Interestingly, on a
Florida Link, the passage way widens a bit instead, and the wedge has to be
inserted and removed from the back of the mouthpiece.

From the point of view of volume displacement, the kind of inserts that Joe
Smallwood was selling would take up less space in the mouthpiece.  I have
yet to experiment along his lines, though.

Barry


> From: "John" <jtalcott47@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 23:08:50 -0000
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
> 
> 
>  
> Thanks Keith.  That makes sense.  It still seems to me that a novice
> putting a baffle into a mouthpiece that wasn't designed for one in the
> first place would be a real crap shoot.  Have you modified any customers
> mouthpieces by adding a baffle at their request?  How difficult is that
> to do without making other adjustments to insures the piece plays
> properly?
> 
> John
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > When you add material for a baffle inside a mouthpiece, it is usually
> not a lot of volume.  The player just needs to pull out the
> mouthpiece by 1/32"-1/16" to compensate.  Some do not pull out at
> all and just play a little looser.  They like the sound combo of
> more baffle and a looser embouchure.Â
>> > Â
>> > Â
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: John jtalcott47@...
>> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:55:10 PM
>> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
>> >
>> > It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle
> is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume
> taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material
> in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are
> created.
>> >
>> > I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on
> this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his
> vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else,
> and vice versa.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > --- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@ ...>
> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
> baffles. You can find them via Google.
>>> > >
>>> > > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped
> them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds
> attached. All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
>>> > >
>> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

I’ve probably put in a couple of hundred additional baffles over the years, both epoxy and sometimes metal. A little additional baffle typically goes a long way. You’ve got to sit down with the player and tweak the baffle to their wishes, which ends up taking a fair amount of time with my meter running. Whenever we do this tweaking,  we ALWAYS have the tuner in the room, so there is never any discussion of “you ruined my intonation”…..I generally try to talk customers out of having a baffle installed….they are generally better served by keeping what they’ve got and buying an additional mouthpiece…….it’s almost always more cost efficient for them to do so.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Bradbury
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:24 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 

  


I do a bunch of added baffles for my clients.  Some are removable and some are semi-permanent.  Most use a pea-sized amount of epoxy putty.  If they are looking for a lot more than that, I start taking some material out of the chamber.  That is, unless they say the have sharp palm keys.  In that case the added material will help the player.  But I rarely add that much material.  Most clients are looking for a small change.

 

This type of work is best done during a visit.  We can try several shapes, sizes, and locations using temporary putty.  Then when we find something they like, I can make it out of quick-set epoxy putty.  Since visits are not practical for most of my clients, I encourage them to experiment with temporary putty on their own if they are looking for added projection and brightness.  Then they can send me a shape they like.  But most just want me to take a shot at it based on their verbal description of what changes they are looking for.  If it is not right, they just need to send it back for an adjustment. 

  _____  

From: John <jtalcott47@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 6:08:50 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

  

Thanks Keith. That makes sense. It still seems to me that a novice
putting a baffle into a mouthpiece that wasn't designed for one in the
first place would be a real crap shoot. Have you modified any customers
mouthpieces by adding a baffle at their request? How difficult is that
to do without making other adjustments to insures the piece plays
properly?

John

--- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>  yahoogroups. com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...>
wrote:
>
> When you add material for a baffle inside a mouthpiece, it is usually
not a lot of volume. The player just needs to pull out the
mouthpiece by 1/32"-1/16" to compensate. Some do not pull out at
all and just play a little looser. They like the sound combo of
more baffle and a looser embouchure.Â
> Â
> Â
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
> From: John jtalcott47@. ..
> To: MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>  yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:55:10 PM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
>
> It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle
is put into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume
taken away must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material
in the chamber of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are
created.
>
> I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on
this topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his
vest, he does describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else,
and vice versa.
>
> John
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
baffles. You can find them via Google.
> >
> > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped
them off and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds
attached. All that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
> >
>

 

Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years.  I believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.

Saying that all mouthpieces need to have the correct balance in their internal dimensions to play well does not imply that there is only one mouthpiece that would work on each horn.  





--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>
> Ernie is pulling your leg....that is not correct unless you make MASSIVE
> changes in the internal volume....minor changes are easy to deal with
> through changing the placement of the mouthpiece on the cork, as Keith
> stated..if what you contend he said was correct, every horn would have one
> and one only mouthpiece that worked, and we know that is not the case
> 
>  
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@...m [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of John
> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:55 PM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle is put
> into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume taken away
> must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material in the chamber
> of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are created. 
> 
> I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on this
> topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his vest, he does
> describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, and vice versa.
> 
> John
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@>
> wrote:
> >
> > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone
> baffles. You can find them via Google.
> > 
> > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped them off
> and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached. All
> that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.
> >
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

(trimmed)
> 
> I know the Runyon Spoiler works pretty well, and I don't fully understand
> the function of the secondary reed in spite of Santy's explanations to me
> during my lessons. 

(trimmed)

Steve, first, and this is not opinion, I have sound analysis graphs here of spoiler vs. no spoiler, all else the same, and they clearly show that the spoiler insert increases the strength of the overtones in the 1.5-2.5 khz range, where the ear is very sensitive.

Now my personal view of the device is that it acts like an extended high baffle, but the thin metal reed takes up very little chamber volume, with only the black plastic baffle piece taking up volume.  So, it acts like a much larger, longer baffle, yet does not take up enough volume to have a serious affect on intonation.  And difference from the small amount of volume taken up is easily compensated for by adjusting the mouthpiece on the cork.

Paul C.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

(trimmed)
> 
> Often they can wedge firmly in place and stay put quite well, if they are
> shaped accurately enough.
> 
(trimmed)

The Runyon spoiler baffles are made specifically for the model they are placed in.  They are individually hand fitted to each mouthpiece by filing on the "nubs" you will find on the side of the black plastic wedge so that they wedge in tight at a specific distance from the tip of the mouthpiece.  And this varies from model to model.

This is why you can't just "order a spoiler" to try in your Selmer Soloist or Berg or other mouthpiece.

Paul C.

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I have worked on a Northway tenor mouthpiece, and seen some others. The baffle
inserts I have seen in them (that is, added material like epoxy or something)
are very big - larger than what an "average" baffle adjustment to a client's
mouthpiece would entail. They come up very close to the rails, and extend
pretty far back. It appears that he's making these from some type of blank,
but adding a lot of baffle material - this could very well require some volume
adjustment elsewhere in the chamber. In contrast, when I've added baffles to
clients' mouthpieces, the client usually wants basically the same mouthpiece,
but with some added "punch", so I'm adding maybe about a third of that amount
of material. In short, you might both be right.  
  
Dan T  
  
John wrote:

> Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years. I
> believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one
> actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.  
>  
>  Saying that all mouthpieces need to have the correct balance in their
> internal dimensions to play well does not imply that there is only one
> mouthpiece that would work on each horn.  
>  
>  \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> "STEVE GOODSON" ...> wrote:  
>  >  
>  > Ernie is pulling your leg....that is not correct unless you make MASSIVE  
>  > changes in the internal volume....minor changes are easy to deal with  
>  > through changing the placement of the mouthpiece on the cork, as Keith  
>  > stated..if what you contend he said was correct, every horn would have
> one  
>  > and one only mouthpiece that worked, and we know that is not the case  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > From:
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)
> [mailto:[MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)]  
>  > On Behalf Of John  
>  > Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:55 PM  
>  > To:
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)  
>  > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > It has always been my understanding that when an "aftermarket" baffle is
> put  
>  > into an existing well dimensioned mouthpiece, that the volume taken away  
>  > must be replaced by removing an equivalent amount of material in the
> chamber  
>  > of the mouthpiece. Otherwise intonation problems are created.  
>  >  
>  > I have had several discussions with mouthpiece maker Ernie Northway on
> this  
>  > topic and although he keeps most of his knowledge close to his vest, he
> does  
>  > describe how when he takes away he adds somewhere else, and vice versa.  
>  >  
>  > John  
>  >  
>  > \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)  
>  > <[mailto:MouthpieceW](mailto:MouthpieceW)ork%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "MojoBari" >  
>  > wrote:  
>  > >  
>  > > The stick-on baffles are still sold as Hot Sax baffles or Powertone  
>  > baffles. You can find them via Google.  
>  > >  
>  > > The Spoiler metal reed does little to nothing IMO. I have clipped them
> off  
>  > and made epoxy baffle inserts with and without metal reeds attached. All  
>  > that matters is the size and location of the baffle part.  
>  > >  
>  >  
>  
>

Interesting...  I've never seen any pictures of these. How would you say
Northway's baffle buildup compares to a Claude Lakey, a piece with a high
baffle that extends pretty far back?

Barry


> From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:18:38 -0600
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts
> 
> 
>  
> I have worked on a Northway tenor mouthpiece, and seen some others. The baffle
> inserts I have seen in them (that is, added material like epoxy or something)
> are very big - larger than what an "average" baffle adjustment to a client's
> mouthpiece would entail.  They come up very close to the rails, and extend
> pretty far back.  It appears that he's making these from some type of blank,
> but adding a lot of baffle material - this could very well require some volume
> adjustment elsewhere in the chamber.  In contrast, when I've added baffles to
> clients' mouthpieces, the client usually wants basically the same mouthpiece,
> but with some added "punch", so I'm adding maybe about a third of that amount
> of material.  In short, you might both be right.
> 
> Dan T
> 
> John wrote: 
>  
>> Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years. I
>> believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one
>> actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------The tenor piece I worked on looked like a regular hard rubber piece, but had a
big wedge baffle inserted. There was not much side wall visible between the
rails and the surface of the baffle (that is, it's a very high baffle). Fairly
straight baffle surface (to the naked eye), and I don't remember if the back
end dropped straight off (perpendicular) or had a little angle to it, but I'm
pretty sure it didn't "taper" into the chamber. If I remember correctly, it
extended about 3/4" back from the tip.  
  
I've only looked closely at that one tenor mouthpiece, but the other ones I've
played had that projection, volume, and immediacy of response you'd expect
from a long, straight, high baffle like this.  
  
Dan T  
  
Barry Levine wrote:

> Interesting... I've never seen any pictures of these. How would you say
> Northway's baffle buildup compares to a Claude Lakey, a piece with a high
> baffle that extends pretty far back?  
>  
>  Barry  
>  
>
>

>>  
>  **From:** Dan Torosian .net>  
>  **Reply-To:** MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com  
>  **Date:** Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:18:38 -0600  
>  **To:** MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com  
>  **Subject:** Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts  
>  
>
>
>  
>
>

>>  
>  I have worked on a Northway tenor mouthpiece, and seen some others. The
> baffle inserts I have seen in them (that is, added material like epoxy or
> something) are very big - larger than what an "average" baffle adjustment to
> a client's mouthpiece would entail. They come up very close to the rails,
> and extend pretty far back. It appears that he's making these from some type
> of blank, but adding a lot of baffle material - this could very well require
> some volume adjustment elsewhere in the chamber. In contrast, when I've
> added baffles to clients' mouthpieces, the client usually wants basically
> the same mouthpiece, but with some added "punch", so I'm adding maybe about
> a third of that amount of material. In short, you might both be right.  
>  
>  Dan T  
>  
>  John wrote:  
>  
>
>>

>>> Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years. I
believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one
actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.  
>

Ernie is a guy who never was able to expand his market beyond his home
town..he's pretty much unknown outside of Utah..I think he works for
Summerhays Music, or did..they tried to market some horns with his name on
them, and were unsuccessful. I've seen a couple of his mouthpieces, and they
were retro-fits of existing pieces made by others, not original designs. It
appeared to me that all he did was install a simple epoxy baffle.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Barry Levine
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:22 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Northway mouthpieces

 

  

Interesting...  I've never seen any pictures of these. How would you say
Northway's baffle buildup compares to a Claude Lakey, a piece with a high
baffle that extends pretty far back?

Barry


From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:18:38 -0600
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 


I have worked on a Northway tenor mouthpiece, and seen some others. The
baffle inserts I have seen in them (that is, added material like epoxy or
something) are very big - larger than what an "average" baffle adjustment to
a client's mouthpiece would entail.  They come up very close to the rails,
and extend pretty far back.  It appears that he's making these from some
type of blank, but adding a lot of baffle material - this could very well
require some volume adjustment elsewhere in the chamber.  In contrast, when
I've added baffles to clients' mouthpieces, the client usually wants
basically the same mouthpiece, but with some added "punch", so I'm adding
maybe about a third of that amount of material.  In short, you might both be
right.

Dan T

John wrote: 
 

Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years. I
believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one
actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.

The Runyon Spoilers are very much "Runyon specific" in size. Santy gave me a
big box full years ago, and there must have been literally 20 different
sizes. In my experiments, I adapted some to other brands, but some trimming
was usually necessary for a good fit.

 

Santy also gave me a generous supply of the Spoiler baffles without the
metal reeds attached. In comparing the effects of reed vs. no reed, I know
that the reed makes a significant difference.

 

 

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of tenorman1952
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 9:09 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts

 

  



--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> , Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
wrote:

(trimmed)
> 
> Often they can wedge firmly in place and stay put quite well, if they are
> shaped accurately enough.
> 
(trimmed)

The Runyon spoiler baffles are made specifically for the model they are
placed in. They are individually hand fitted to each mouthpiece by filing on
the "nubs" you will find on the side of the black plastic wedge so that they
wedge in tight at a specific distance from the tip of the mouthpiece. And
this varies from model to model.

This is why you can't just "order a spoiler" to try in your Selmer Soloist
or Berg or other mouthpiece.

Paul C.

It has a VERY marked baffle.  Nothing like the Lakey.  Its a big hunk of baffle as a matter of fact, but they are really classy pieces.

BK

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:

From: Barry Levine <barrylevine@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Northway mouthpieces
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:22 AM







 



  


    
      
      
      


Interesting. ..  I've never seen any pictures of these. How would you say Northway's baffle buildup compares to a Claude Lakey, a piece with a high baffle that extends pretty far back?



Barry





From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@sbcglobal .net>

Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:18:38 -0600

To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Mouthpiece inserts





 

I have worked on a Northway tenor mouthpiece, and seen some others. The baffle inserts I have seen in them (that is, added material like epoxy or something) are very big - larger than what an "average" baffle adjustment to a client's mouthpiece would entail.  They come up very close to the rails, and extend pretty far back.  It appears that he's making these from some type of blank, but adding a lot of baffle material - this could very well require some volume adjustment elsewhere in the chamber.  In contrast, when I've added baffles to clients' mouthpieces, the client usually wants basically the same mouthpiece, but with some added "punch", so I'm adding maybe about a third of that amount of material.  In short, you might both be right.



Dan T



John wrote: 

 

Ernie Northway has been making custom mouthpieces for over 30 years. I believe it would be best to withhold criticism of his remarks until one actually sees one of his mouthpieces and the type of baffle he adds.







    
     

    
    


 



  






      

I just made a insert baffle for a Beechler Diamond s6s alto mouthpiece. First I did remove a little material from the chamber, but not the same amount as the size of the baffle. I also put a longer facing on it, and thinned the rails. I don´t find the intonation to be very different from before. What suprised me most was the big difference before and after I made the small "bullet".

I have uploaded three pictures of it in the Photo section, under "Baffle Inserts".


EgilF.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "MojoBari" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Joe Smallwood's site is still up but he has been MIA for years.  He has/had some insrts:
> 
> http://mouthpieceworks.com/
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "STEVE GOODSON" <saxgourmet@> wrote:
> >
> > I know that the Runyon "Spoiler" insert is a pretty amazing little gizmo,
> > and that Runyon holds the patent. I'm interested in experimenting with this
> > sort of thing, and can't find anything else that has been used other than
> > some baffle inserts. Can anyone direct me to any other similar products?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
> > 
> > STEVE GOODSON
> > 
> > SAXOPHONE DESIGNER TO THE STARS         
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > our products are ALL rated 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > cid:339191121@25022009-09F4
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Steve is a member of
> > 
> > hd_logo NAMMbelieve2nasaconf_GIF
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > PLEASE VISIT MY WEBSITES
> >  <http://www.nationofmusic.com/> http://www.nationofmusic.com/ (retail sales
> > and discussion forum)
> >  <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/>
> > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SaxophoneRepair/  (discussion group)
> >  <http://www.saxgourmet.com/> http://www.saxgourmet.com/  (saxophone history
> > and information)
> >  <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
> > http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/  (my personal saxophone blog)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > READ MY ARTICLES ON SAXOPHONE DESIGN IN EACH ISSUE OF THE SAXOPHONE JOURNAL
> > The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> > hallway where thieves
> > 
> > BASIC SHOP RATE................$100/HR
> > 
> > IF YOU WATCH.....................$125/HR
> > 
> > IF YOU ASK QUESTIONS......$150/HR
> > 
> > IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO A CONCERT 
> > 
> > LONGER THAN FIVE MINUTES WHEN
> > 
> > YOU PICK UP YOUR HORN....$250/HR
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
> > hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's
> > also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
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