Do you use one reed or several strength reeds when testing a mouthpiece?  Let's assume you are making it for yourself.  How do you achieve "reed friendly" results.  ie  good percentage of reeds work well on the mouthpiece.   
 I do have some concern with the numbers put forth in graphs regarding facing curves.  These graphs really should interface with graphs of reeds and their dimensions and strengths. On the surface the graphs would seem to be very logical and useful but reeds bending and vibrating patterns are very tied into the measurements of the reed.   
 I say all this with due respect to all involved in working on these graphs and organizing and particating in this website.  It is a great format for learning and sharing.  thanks  John   

Hi John, me too learn very much in this website. But i continue
without learn good English language jahhhh

Respect reeds. First, when a players or clients come with your mouthpiece for i retouch, always i tell the same argumentation by phone: come with the complete sax, and vary reeds. Later play him
with all reeds for evaluation. In some instances i retouch no mouthpiece, but the reeds (;>) and that's it sufficient.

When i decide work a mouthpiece because it is necessary, because one can to do real disaster with it if not necessary, well, is my point of view.

A mouthpiece is very simple of verify. Prove all the reeds hardness on it, normal embouchure o mouth, later to an fro corners tip, if necessary retouche both flanks (on a plane table) with rubbing method and sandpaper nº 400 (new) mounted on a little rounded wood soport, from the tip to back; its possible because rounded wood piece to permit get up on the reed without break your tip. If use drops of water sliding better. The reed will must be tight firmly for example: to a plate glass fat piece adhere to the table.

My experience with the players suggest me that later this only a little work remainder to do on the mouthpieces, in the majority instances, not at all. Fraternally..
Silverio


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John Price" <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> Do you use one reed or several strength reeds when testing a mouthpiece?  Let's assume you are making it for yourself.  How do you achieve "reed friendly" results.  ie  good percentage of reeds work well on the mouthpiece.   
>  I do have some concern with the numbers put forth in graphs regarding facing curves.  These graphs really should interface with graphs of reeds and their dimensions and strengths. On the surface the graphs would seem to be very logical and useful but reeds bending and vibrating patterns are very tied into the measurements of the reed.   
>  I say all this with due respect to all involved in working on these graphs and organizing and particating in this website.  It is a great format for learning and sharing.  thanks  John
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "silpopaar" <silpopaar@...> wrote:
>
> Hi John, me too learn very much in this website. But i continue
> without learn good English language jahhhh
> 
> Respect reeds. First, when a players or clients come with your mouthpiece for i retouch, always i tell the same argumentation by phone: come with the complete sax, and vary reeds. Later play him
> with all reeds for evaluation. In some instances i retouch no mouthpiece, but the reeds (;>) and that's it sufficient.
> 
> When i decide work a mouthpiece because it is necessary, because one can to do real disaster with it if not necessary, well, is my point of view.
> 
> A mouthpiece is very simple of verify. Prove all the reeds hardness on it, normal embouchure o mouth, later to an fro corners tip, if necessary retouche both flanks (on a plane table) with rubbing method and sandpaper nº 400 (new) mounted on a little rounded wood soport, from the tip to back; its possible because rounded wood piece to permit get up on the reed without break your tip. If use drops of water sliding better. The reed will must be tight firmly for example: to a plate glass fat piece adhere to the table.
> 
> My experience with the players suggest me that later this only a little work remainder to do on the mouthpieces, in the majority instances, not at all. Fraternally..
> Silverio
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John Price" <john_w_price33@> wrote:
> >
> > Do you use one reed or several strength reeds when testing a mouthpiece?  Let's assume you are making it for yourself.  How do you achieve "reed friendly" results.  ie  good percentage of reeds work well on the mouthpiece.   
> >  I do have some concern with the numbers put forth in graphs regarding facing curves.  These graphs really should interface with graphs of reeds and their dimensions and strengths. On the surface the graphs would seem to be very logical and useful but reeds bending and vibrating patterns are very tied into the measurements of the reed.   
> >  I say all this with due respect to all involved in working on these graphs and organizing and particating in this website.  It is a great format for learning and sharing.  thanks  John
> >
>
 I think Silverio is saying that reed sanding is often the answer to blowing response problems, rather than defects on MPC lays.

 I am also in agreement with John's observation that reed profiles should match lay curvature for best performance.
 I know that we have so called, French cut & American cut reeds which are supposed to match up with differing MPC lays, but I have not read any explanation about this and wonder if anyone can clarify this by giving examples of MPC curves with matching/compatible reed cuts.
 Savvy players know what works best by experimentation, but knowing what type of lay you have on your MPC, would point the way, to selecting a matching cut(brand) of reed for best results. 
 I'm sticking my neck out here, in thinking that a Selmer MPC would match a French cut reed, a Vandoren traditional for example and an American cut reed, La Voz ? would match an American style MPC lay best.
 The Berg Larsen MPC's came with both these variations, SMS French & M American lays. The American having a flatter curve.
 Berg possibly made American cut reeds to match these as I still have one of his French cut reeds marked SMS.
 EDDIE

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John Price" <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
Question: Do you use one reed or several strength reeds when testing a mouthpiece?  


Reply: Do not make the mistake of using your favorite brand and strength of reed.  It may or may not work with the mouthpiece being tested.  I've been sent mouthpiece to rework because they squeeked and chirped, along with the reeds they used.  A different brand of reed, and leaving the mouthpiece unmodified, and the customer was happy.


Question: Let's assume you are making it for yourself.  How do you achieve "reed friendly" results.  ie  good percentage of reeds work well on the mouthpiece. 


Reply:  I make the facing symmetrical.  Only crooked reeds work on crooked mouthpieces.  Finding a reed that is crooked in just the right way to suit the crooked mouthpiece is very difficult.  "I only get one good reed out of a whole box of reeds."  No wonder!

  
Paul Coats

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John Price" <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> Do you use one reed or several strength reeds when testing a mouthpiece?  Let's assume you are making it for yourself.  How do you achieve "reed friendly" results.  ie  good percentage of reeds work well on the mouthpiece.   
>  I do have some concern with the numbers put forth in graphs regarding facing curves.  These graphs really should interface with graphs of reeds and their dimensions and strengths. On the surface the graphs would seem to be very logical and useful but reeds bending and vibrating patterns are very tied into the measurements of the reed.   
>  I say all this with due respect to all involved in working on these graphs and organizing and particating in this website.  It is a great format for learning and sharing.  thanks  John
>
One thing that I have tried, due to this forum, is adjusting the reeds as soon as I get them using Tom Ridenour's system.  all of the information can be found at:

http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/ATG1.html

Using this system, I am able to get EVERY reed in the box to work.

David

I believe sax reed cuts have evolved so that they work well with radial and elliptical facing curves.  So I do not alter the facing curve to match the cut of a particular reed.  
 
I originally started using elliptical curves since I thought they would be "better" at matching the gradually tapering reed cuts.  All I found was another "knob" to turn besides tip opening and facing length to determine a facing curve shape.  It is still an art to determine what facing curve I think will work for a client.  Sometimes they want to try something different and I can lower the resistance by moving towards a radial curve while holding the tip opening and facing length the same.  The clients are usually amazed at the difference.  I sometimes go the other way and/or vary the facing length and tip opening for them too.  But 95% of the tip they like my first facing choice I do for them.
 
I just test the mouthpiece with a Fibracell reed.  Most of the time a 2.5 but I go harder/softer depending on the tip opening.  I have a lot of them here so I can find strengths between the half sizes too.  My clients use all kinds of reeds.  Some try a bunch of reeds after they get a refaced mouthpiece.  Some want me to match the facing to their favorite reed.  For this I just take my best shot and then interview them to find out which adjustments I think will help.  This is a combination of matching the mouthpiece to their reed and their embouchure.


      

I agree with Keith's points below.

Also:

1. I find reeds tend to accommodate themselves to a facing over time; as the cane softens, they take on the curvature of the facing which you can see once you take the reed off the mouthpiece.  I think this is one of the reasons that a reed that worked well on one mouthpiece can be unresponsive on another.

2. Then there's the whole art form of working on a reed to get the best out of it by sanding the back flat and then balancing and adjusting the blade so it responses well.  In my experience, this is made easier with a well formed symmetrical facing with a radial or slightly elliptical facing.

Regards,
Andrew


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I believe sax reed cuts have evolved so that they work well with radial and elliptical facing curves.  So I do not alter the facing curve to match the cut of a particular reed.  
>  
> I originally started using elliptical curves since I thought they would be "better" at matching the gradually tapering reed cuts.  All I found was another "knob" to turn besides tip opening and facing length to determine a facing curve shape.  It is still an art to determine what facing curve I think will work for a client.  Sometimes they want to try something different and I can lower the resistance by moving towards a radial curve while holding the tip opening and facing length the same.  The clients are usually amazed at the difference.  I sometimes go the other way and/or vary the facing length and tip opening for them too.  But 95% of the tip they like my first facing choice I do for them.
>  
> I just test the mouthpiece with a Fibracell reed.  Most of the time a 2.5 but I go harder/softer depending on the tip opening.  I have a lot of them here so I can find strengths between the half sizes too.  My clients use all kinds of reeds.  Some try a bunch of reeds after they get a refaced mouthpiece.  Some want me to match the facing to their favorite reed.  For this I just take my best shot and then interview them to find out which adjustments I think will help.  This is a combination of matching the mouthpiece to their reed and their embouchure.
>

Given that the same facing sounds different with a different mouthpiece blank it becomes imperative that the aural testing is crucial to getting what you want out of a mouthpiece.  Of course the magic curve or combination of curves is not your goal but rather a starting point.  Testing the mouthpiece with a reed during the refacing process in my mind is useful.  Keith's idea of an assortment of reeds (I like the Fibracell for their constancy) is great in my mind.  Most important is to find a reed that vibrates on the mouthpiece.  In all the Ridenour videos he always stops when the reed vibrates well.  It isn't a number of strokes or a measurement. In his case I would make sure that reeds selected are in the ballpark  ie less than a half strength too hard.    For refacing I would suggest the opposite.....test with reeds that are slightly on the soft side...making sure that vibration is taking place.  As the refacing continues it might become necessary to switch to a slightly harder or softer reed.  In testing I find it useful to test quickly.....don't give yourself time to get used to a setup....don't make a perfect embouchure....let it do what it wants to do.        - In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "crunchie_nuts" <andrewhdonaldson@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with Keith's points below.
> 
> Also:
> 
> 1. I find reeds tend to accommodate themselves to a facing over time; as the cane softens, they take on the curvature of the facing which you can see once you take the reed off the mouthpiece.  I think this is one of the reasons that a reed that worked well on one mouthpiece can be unresponsive on another.
> 
> 2. Then there's the whole art form of working on a reed to get the best out of it by sanding the back flat and then balancing and adjusting the blade so it responses well.  In my experience, this is made easier with a well formed symmetrical facing with a radial or slightly elliptical facing.
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@> wrote:
> >
> > I believe sax reed cuts have evolved so that they work well with radial and elliptical facing curves.  So I do not alter the facing curve to match the cut of a particular reed.  
> >  
> > I originally started using elliptical curves since I thought they would be "better" at matching the gradually tapering reed cuts.  All I found was another "knob" to turn besides tip opening and facing length to determine a facing curve shape.  It is still an art to determine what facing curve I think will work for a client.  Sometimes they want to try something different and I can lower the resistance by moving towards a radial curve while holding the tip opening and facing length the same.  The clients are usually amazed at the difference.  I sometimes go the other way and/or vary the facing length and tip opening for them too.  But 95% of the tip they like my first facing choice I do for them.
> >  
> > I just test the mouthpiece with a Fibracell reed.  Most of the time a 2.5 but I go harder/softer depending on the tip opening.  I have a lot of them here so I can find strengths between the half sizes too.  My clients use all kinds of reeds.  Some try a bunch of reeds after they get a refaced mouthpiece.  Some want me to match the facing to their favorite reed.  For this I just take my best shot and then interview them to find out which adjustments I think will help.  This is a combination of matching the mouthpiece to their reed and their embouchure.
> >
>