Hi everyone,
I'm trying to produce my own hard rubber blanks.
I know the density (hardness) used for sax mouthpieces is somewhere between 82-95 on Shore D scale. I would probably experiment with a hardness of 86 or 87, just because it is in the middle (well just under). I'm guessing Selmer used a softer rubber (probably around 85-86), as where NY Meyer rubber was harder, also Morgan's pieces used harder rubber. 
This is are just rough guesses. Does anyone have any knoledge in this area, and would you be able to share it?
It would be greatly appreciated!
Kind regards,
Gabriel Vatavu

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> I'm trying to produce my own hard rubber blanks.
> I know the density (hardness) used for sax mouthpieces is somewhere between 82-95 on Shore D scale. I would probably experiment with a hardness of 86 or 87, just because it is in the middle (well just under). I'm guessing Selmer used a softer rubber (probably around 85-86), as where NY Meyer rubber was harder, also Morgan's pieces used harder rubber. 
> This is are just rough guesses. Does anyone have any knoledge in this area, and would you be able to share it?
> It would be greatly appreciated!
> Kind regards,
> Gabriel Vatavu
>

Seems to me harder rubber accentuates more of the higher overtones.  I think maybe it vibrates more and dampens less than softer rubber.  The molecular structure is probably also important, that rubber with longer polymer chains you get from longer curing sound better than shorter cured but equally hard rubber.  I'm guessing, though.  
Search for Brad Behn's posts here or ask him.  He knows much more about this than most.
Cheers,
Morgan

Posts regarding hard rubber (and other mouthpiece materials) from this MouthpieceWork group and other sources, including posts by Brad Behn, are summarized and reviewed on my website http://www.CarolinaClarinet.org Look at page 8-11 of the text on the Mouthpiece Materials link.

Characteristics of hard rubber are related to the kind of polymer, the temperature, and the amount of crosslinks in the rubber. That's not quite the same thing as the molecular weight of the polymer. Also, the Youngs's Modulus of Elasticity and the density are more directly related to sound transmission than hardness. But hardness is a good indicator, because it's so easy to measure. That text also reviews the MouthpieceWork posts and other info related to hardness and stiffness starting on the bottom of page 4 of that text. 

That topic of sound transmission in materials is pretty technical, and there are internet descriptions of those relationships that go far beyond the review I posted on my website. There are many links in that text to other info sources.

- Brent
 




--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "frymorgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > I'm trying to produce my own hard rubber blanks.
> > I know the density (hardness) used for sax mouthpieces is somewhere between 82-95 on Shore D scale. I would probably experiment with a hardness of 86 or 87, just because it is in the middle (well just under). I'm guessing Selmer used a softer rubber (probably around 85-86), as where NY Meyer rubber was harder, also Morgan's pieces used harder rubber. 
> > This is are just rough guesses. Does anyone have any knoledge in this area, and would you be able to share it?
> > It would be greatly appreciated!
> > Kind regards,
> > Gabriel Vatavu
> >
> 
> Seems to me harder rubber accentuates more of the higher overtones.  I think maybe it vibrates more and dampens less than softer rubber.  The molecular structure is probably also important, that rubber with longer polymer chains you get from longer curing sound better than shorter cured but equally hard rubber.  I'm guessing, though.  
> Search for Brad Behn's posts here or ask him.  He knows much more about this than most.
> Cheers,
> Morgan
>

Thanks you for your responses guys!
Cheers!


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Brent" <brentsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Posts regarding hard rubber (and other mouthpiece materials) from this MouthpieceWork group and other sources, including posts by Brad Behn, are summarized and reviewed on my website http://www.CarolinaClarinet.org Look at page 8-11 of the text on the Mouthpiece Materials link.
> 
> Characteristics of hard rubber are related to the kind of polymer, the temperature, and the amount of crosslinks in the rubber. That's not quite the same thing as the molecular weight of the polymer. Also, the Youngs's Modulus of Elasticity and the density are more directly related to sound transmission than hardness. But hardness is a good indicator, because it's so easy to measure. That text also reviews the MouthpieceWork posts and other info related to hardness and stiffness starting on the bottom of page 4 of that text. 
> 
> That topic of sound transmission in materials is pretty technical, and there are internet descriptions of those relationships that go far beyond the review I posted on my website. There are many links in that text to other info sources.
> 
> - Brent
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "frymorgan" <frymorgan@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I'm trying to produce my own hard rubber blanks.
> > > I know the density (hardness) used for sax mouthpieces is somewhere between 82-95 on Shore D scale. I would probably experiment with a hardness of 86 or 87, just because it is in the middle (well just under). I'm guessing Selmer used a softer rubber (probably around 85-86), as where NY Meyer rubber was harder, also Morgan's pieces used harder rubber. 
> > > This is are just rough guesses. Does anyone have any knoledge in this area, and would you be able to share it?
> > > It would be greatly appreciated!
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Gabriel Vatavu
> > >
> > 
> > Seems to me harder rubber accentuates more of the higher overtones.  I think maybe it vibrates more and dampens less than softer rubber.  The molecular structure is probably also important, that rubber with longer polymer chains you get from longer curing sound better than shorter cured but equally hard rubber.  I'm guessing, though.  
> > Search for Brad Behn's posts here or ask him.  He knows much more about this than most.
> > Cheers,
> > Morgan
> >
>

With all that science readily available it is a shame  the modern producers
and big brand names are using deaf plastic and are ready to spend millions
to cheapen the final product.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Brent <brentsmith@...> wrote:

>
>
> Posts regarding hard rubber (and other mouthpiece materials) from this
> MouthpieceWork group and other sources, including posts by Brad Behn, are
> summarized and reviewed on my website http://www.CarolinaClarinet.org Look
> at page 8-11 of the text on the Mouthpiece Materials link.
>
> Characteristics of hard rubber are related to the kind of polymer, the
> temperature, and the amount of crosslinks in the rubber. That's not quite
> the same thing as the molecular weight of the polymer. Also, the Youngs's
> Modulus of Elasticity and the density are more directly related to sound
> transmission than hardness. But hardness is a good indicator, because it's
> so easy to measure. That text also reviews the MouthpieceWork posts and
> other info related to hardness and stiffness starting on the bottom of page
> 4 of that text.
>
> That topic of sound transmission in materials is pretty technical, and
> there are internet descriptions of those relationships that go far beyond
> the review I posted on my website. There are many links in that text to
> other info sources.
>
> - Brent
>
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "frymorgan" <frymorgan@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I'm trying to produce my own hard rubber blanks.
> > > I know the density (hardness) used for sax mouthpieces is somewhere
> between 82-95 on Shore D scale. I would probably experiment with a hardness
> of 86 or 87, just because it is in the middle (well just under). I'm
> guessing Selmer used a softer rubber (probably around 85-86), as where NY
> Meyer rubber was harder, also Morgan's pieces used harder rubber.
> > > This is are just rough guesses. Does anyone have any knoledge in this
> area, and would you be able to share it?
> > > It would be greatly appreciated!
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Gabriel Vatavu
> > >
> >
> > Seems to me harder rubber accentuates more of the higher overtones. I
> think maybe it vibrates more and dampens less than softer rubber. The
> molecular structure is probably also important, that rubber with longer
> polymer chains you get from longer curing sound better than shorter cured
> but equally hard rubber. I'm guessing, though.
> > Search for Brad Behn's posts here or ask him. He knows much more about
> this than most.
> > Cheers,
> > Morgan
> >
>
>  
>