I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the chamber a little help?  Any suggestion?
thanks

Ross McIntyre 

That's VERY typical of Mk VI's..the solution is to install a compensator
mechanism for the upper range. Nothing else really works.

 

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Ross McIntyre
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:24 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Meyer small chamber alto plays sharp

 






I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5
digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the
chamber a little help? Any suggestion?
thanks

Ross McIntyre 

If you haven't played the mouthpiece long, work with it.  Practice does
amazing things for your playing.  We sometimes forget that.  John

On 5/30/09, STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>  *That’s VERY typical of Mk VI’s….the solution is to install a compensator
> mechanism for the upper range. Nothing else really works.*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ross McIntyre
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:24 PM
> *To:* MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [MouthpieceWork] Meyer small chamber alto plays sharp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
> However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5
> digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the
> chamber a little help? Any suggestion?
> thanks
>
> Ross McIntyre
>
>   
>

A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the
 Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small chamber.

Toby

Ross McIntyre <mk6sax@...> wrote:                                           

              I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
 However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the chamber a little help?  Any suggestion?
 thanks
 
 Ross McIntyre 
 
 
        
             
                          
 

Thanks for the input guys.
I forgot to mention that I have Selmer E (80 thou), Lakey, Brilliant(White Personaline), Kessler, Dukoff and Bari mouthpieces here.  The Meyer is the only one I have the problem with.  I feel that it is the mouthpiece. My problem is that the Meyer is the best player of the lot except for the tuning.

thanks 

Ross

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, <kymarto123@...> wrote:
>
> A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the
>  Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small chamber.
> 
> Toby
> 
> Ross McIntyre <mk6sax@...> wrote:                                           
> 
>               I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
>  However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the chamber a little help?  Any suggestion?
>  thanks
>  
>  Ross McIntyre
>
Toby, 
Won't an overly small chamber tend to be flat on top rather than sharp?

Before you change it, make sure you get used to it if you have not lived
with it for very long, especially because you like the sound so much.  If
you were having problems with the notes between a and c just above the
staff, I'd say that the mpce is definitely the culprit. The higher notes are
much easier to adjust once one KNOWS a piece well.  Good luck, John

On 5/31/09, frymorgan <frymorgan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com <MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> <kymarto123@...> wrote:
> >
> > A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning
> problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging
> the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change
> the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the
> > Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not
> the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small
> chamber.
> >
> > Toby
> >
> > Ross McIntyre <mk6sax@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
> > However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5
> digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the
> chamber a little help? Any suggestion?
> > thanks
> >
> > Ross McIntyre
> >
> Toby,
> Won't an overly small chamber tend to be flat on top rather than sharp?
>
>  
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I just read this thread and was thinking the same thing. Smaller chamber might
be what's needed.  
  
Reducing the chamber volume (adding putty) would make you have to pull the
mouthpiece out farther to keep the middle of the horn in tune, which would
bring down the pitch of the palm key notes. And, since it's totally reversible
(just remove the putty), no harm in trying it.  
  
Dan T  
  
frymorgan wrote:

> \\--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com),
> ...> wrote:  
>  >  
>  > A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning
> problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging
> the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change
> the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the  
>  > Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not
> the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small
> chamber.  
>  >  
>  > Toby  
>  >  
>  > Ross McIntyre [](mailto:mk6sax@...) wrote:  
>  >  
>  > I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.  
>  > However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5
> digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the
> chamber a little help? Any suggestion?  
>  > thanks  
>  >  
>  > Ross McIntyre  
>  >  
>  Toby,  
>  Won't an overly small chamber tend to be flat on top rather than sharp?  
>  
>

I agree with Dan and Morgan.  It indicates an even smaller chamber might help you.  Most of your other mouthpieces have tiny chambers.  A small Meyer is not that small.

But I also think that if you just played on the Meyer, you would adjust to it.  




      

Working on playing the overtone series up to the fourth partialfrom low Bb,B,C and C# will help adjust your embouchure and your ear to theses notes.  It is very likely that you are playing the Meyer with the same embouchure as your other mouthpieces. 
>
> 
> I agree with Dan and Morgan.  It indicates an even smaller chamber might help you.  Most of your other mouthpieces have tiny chambers.  A small Meyer is not that small.
> 
> But I also think that if you just played on the Meyer, you would adjust to it.
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I agree with Dan and Morgan.  It indicates an even smaller chamber might help you.  Most of your other mouthpieces have tiny chambers.  A small Meyer is not that small.
> 
> But I also think that if you just played on the Meyer, you would adjust to it.
>


I concur.

Paul C.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Wier" <gregwier@...> wrote:
>
> Working on playing the overtone series up to the fourth partialfrom low Bb,B,C and C# will help adjust your embouchure and your ear to theses notes.  It is very likely that you are playing the Meyer with the same embouchure as your other mouthpieces. 
> >
> > 
> > I agree with Dan and Morgan.  It indicates an even smaller chamber might help you.  Most of your other mouthpieces have tiny chambers.  A small Meyer is not that small.
> > 
> > But I also think that if you just played on the Meyer, you would adjust to it.
> >
>
Fair point, Greg (and John).  If you're accustomed to adjusting to a too-small chamber, a more objectively correct one will seem wrong at first.

Another thing, the horn may have a neck taper issue that makes it prefer very small chambers.  

frymorgan <frymorgan@...> wrote:                                           

              --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, <kymarto123@...> wrote:
 >
 > A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the
 >  Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small chamber.
 > 
 > Toby
 > 
 > Ross McIntyre <mk6sax@...> wrote:                                           
 > 
 >               I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
 >  However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the chamber a little help?  Any suggestion?
 >  thanks
 >  
 >  Ross McIntyre
 >
 Toby, 
 Won't an overly small chamber tend to be flat on top rather than sharp?


I don't think so, but to be honest I am not sure and I don't have any reference materials with me here.

Anyway, it would be very simple to stick some chewing gum or whatever in the chamber to reduce the volume and see the result without any non-reversible changes.
Toby
 
        
             
                          
 

I'm not sure. A mpc volume mismatch only affects tuning in the higher notes, so you probably don't want to simply raise the pitch and pull out the mpc, as this will serious affect not only the palm notes but the middle C#/D break between short and long tube notes. Of course trying the putty will
 let you know immediately if you are going in the right direction.

There is a second parameter involved in matching mpc to sax, and that has to do with the throat constriction which determines the Helmholtz resonance of the mpc. Instead of reducing the chamber you could also try a small ring of putty or whatever to slightly narrow the back of the chamber/front of
 the throat and see what that does.

Toby

Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...> wrote:                                           

                  I just read this thread and was thinking the same thing.  Smaller chamber might be what's needed.
 
 Reducing the chamber volume (adding putty) would make you have to pull the mouthpiece out farther to keep the middle of the horn in tune, which would bring down the pitch of the palm key notes.  And, since it's totally reversible (just remove the putty), no harm in trying it.
 
 Dan T
 
 frymorgan wrote: 
      --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, <kymarto123@...> wrote:
 >
 > A mismatch between the chamber volume and bore does result in tuning problems in the highest notes, so there is a good possibility that enlarging the chamber will help somewhat, but don't forget that that will also change the sound to some extent. The fact that the problem only exists with the
 > Meyer tends to make me think that it is a problem with the mpc and not the horn, although another horn might be more forgiving of the small chamber.
 > 
 > Toby
 > 
 > Ross McIntyre <mk6sax@...> wrote: 
 > 
 > I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
 > However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would cheeking out the chamber a little help? Any suggestion?
 > thanks
 > 
 > Ross McIntyre
 >
 Toby, 
 Won't an overly small chamber tend to be flat on top rather than sharp?
   
   
   
     
        
             
                          
 

Hi Ross,

Some of what I'm going to say has already been pointed out by others,  
but I'm going to recap and add a few additional thoughts.

Sharpness in the palm keys is most often due to the use of increased  
jaw pressure instead of proper voicing and air support.  Once you  
have ruled out player problems, though, there are a couple of things  
you might try, all completely reversible:

1)  Reduce the mouthpiece chamber volume.  You can test this with  
putty and move to epoxy of you want to make it permanent.

2) Change the neck taper.  To bring the palm keys down, you need to  
reduce the diameter of the mouthpiece end of the neck.  Instead of  
reshaping the neck, you can simply add a small liner.  Experiment  
with cork (maybe trying .8mm thickness first) and use epoxy if you  
want to make it semi-permanent (a heat gun will allow you to remove  
the epoxy).

3) Change the neck taper and mouthpiece volume.  This can be  
accomplished by adding a small extension on to the neck.  The  
extension need not be affixed to the neck and can just be shoved into  
the mouthpiece.  Experiment with small rings of cork that are the  
thickness of the neck + the neck cork (isn't cork great).  Experiment  
with different lengths and once you have the dimensions right get  
someone to fashion a more permanent one out of hard rubber or brass  
using a lathe.

4)  Add crescents to the palm keys.  Cork again... on the palm keys  
these are breeze and can be added and fine tuned by a non-technician.

Each of these solutions has different implications for tuning and  
tone across the horn, but if you really like the mouthpiece, there's  
no reason you shouldn't be able to get it to work for you, especially  
since the Meyer doesn't have dimensions that are at all extreme by  
modern standards.  Some old-fashioned mouthpieces that are very short  
and have huge chambers just don't work on certain horns and will  
cause the octaves to be extremely wide.

Regards,
Walter Hoehn



On May 30, 2009, at 10:24 PM, Ross McIntyre wrote:

>
>
> I have a Meyer small chamber 7 for my alto. It plays very well.
> However it plays sharp from top D and up into the harmonics. I have  
> a 5 digit Mk6 and it only plays sharp with the Meyer. Would  
> cheeking out the chamber a little help? Any suggestion?
> thanks
>
> Ross McIntyre
>