Mouthpiece Work / Tables on SS Bergs.
FROM: pfdeley (pfdeley)
SUBJECT: Tables on SS Bergs.
Hello,
I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen.
Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right.
Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range.
I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players.
However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper.
Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique.
Thank you. Peter Deley
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
I don't work on Bergs. The stainless is almost impossible to cut. The local stores don't have enough silicon carbide paper, and I don't have enough time left in my life.
Seriously, I just don't work on them.
Paul Coats
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
--- On Wed, 4/22/09, pfdeley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
From: pfdeley <pfdeley@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tables on SS Bergs.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 9:12 PM
Hello,
I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen.
Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right.
Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range.
I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players.
However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper.
Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique.
Thank you. Peter Deley
FROM: pfdeley (pfdeley)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
- Hi Paul, That's not what I wanted to hear! I can see your point though. However the ones that I managed to get a table on play so beautifully. I have had three successes so it is tempting to go for another. Peter -- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote: > > I don't work on Bergs. The stainless is almost impossible to cut. The local stores don't have enough silicon carbide paper, and I don't have enough time left in my life. > > Seriously, I just don't work on them. > > Paul Coats > > Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet": > http://www.saxgourmet.com > Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at: > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952 > > Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from > http://www.saxrax.com > For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... > > --- On Wed, 4/22/09, pfdeley <pfdeley@...> wrote: > > > From: pfdeley <pfdeley@...> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tables on SS Bergs. > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 9:12 PM > > > > > > > > > Hello, > I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen. > Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right. > Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range. > I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players. > However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper. > Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique. > Thank you. Peter Deley >
FROM: frymorgan (frymorgan)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote: > > Hello, > I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen. > Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right. > Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range. > I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players. > However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper. > Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique. > Thank you. Peter Deley > If they won't come down any more it sounds like an issue with your technique. Also keep in mind that if the curve is relatively steep at that point (which it may be with a Berg's uberlong facing), you will make more progress than it looks like you're making. Double check your progress via the tip opening.
FROM: dantorosian (dantorosian)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
See posts 4923 and 5532 for discussion/info about diamond sharpening stones, which can be used to flatten tables. They work a little better/faster than sandpaper/glass, but it can still take a ridiculous amount of work to get a stainless steel table flat if it's way off. I've had similar luck with (a few) Bergs. If the facing curve is good to start with (not always true) and the table doesn't need too much work, they can play absolutely great after a modest amount of work. But overall, their facing measurements and table flatness seem very inconsistent. Dan T --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote: > > Hello, > I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen. > Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right. > Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range. > I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players. > However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper. > Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique. > Thank you. Peter Deley >
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
I tried using a diamond stone on SS Bergs. These "stones" have little dots of grit spaced out in a grid on a plastic substrate. I got a coarse one. But I found it did save on paper, but not much on time and arm/hand fatigue. The coarse paper I was using was just as "fast". When you get it roughed flat, you need to switch to sand paper anyway. If you are having trouble with shortening past "52", it is a technique problem and/or your paper is curling up (it is not flat anymore). I find mylar-backed self-adheasive sandpaper a great solution to the paper curling issue. As for technique, it probably has to do with how you hold the mouthpiece while you draw it across the sand paper. You need to apply finger and wrist force as if to lift the heel off the paper as you draw it. But the heel stays in contact as you get close to being flattened. I'm working on posting a Power Point presentation on my site. It was used during clinic I did in January 2009. I have a few illustration in it on table flattening. I'm adding some captions now to explain the slides.
FROM: dkulcinski (David Kulcinski)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
Kieth,
Please keep us updated as to when the PPt presentation is available. I am excitedly waiting to see it.
Thank you,
David
________________________________
From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:39:32 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
I tried using a diamond stone on SS Bergs. These "stones" have little dots of grit spaced out in a grid on a plastic substrate. I got a coarse one. But I found it did save on paper, but not much on time and arm/hand fatigue. The coarse paper I was using was just as "fast".
When you get it roughed flat, you need to switch to sand paper anyway. If you are having trouble with shortening past "52", it is a technique problem and/or your paper is curling up (it is not flat anymore). I find mylar-backed self-adheasive sandpaper a great solution to the paper curling issue.
As for technique, it probably has to do with how you hold the mouthpiece while you draw it across the sand paper. You need to apply finger and wrist force as if to lift the heel off the paper as you draw it. But the heel stays in contact as you get close to being flattened.
I'm working on posting a Power Point presentation on my site. It was used during clinic I did in January 2009. I have a few illustration in it on table flattening. I'm adding some captions now to explain the slides.
FROM: pfdeley (pfdeley)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
- Thanks for the good tips. So my options are to either swear off SS pieces, or to keep the paper from curling and learning the proper holding technique. I'll give the last two a try and if they don't help I'll think seriously about the first one. Long ago I fixed a metal mouthpiece from an old Machinist who had sanded the table down so that there was no curve left to speak of. It was the flattest table I have ever come across.He said he had learned this skill many years earlier and promised to show me his technique. Unfortunately for me, he never did . Peter -- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...> wrote: > > I tried using a diamond stone on SS Bergs. These "stones" have little dots of grit spaced out in a grid on a plastic substrate. I got a coarse one. But I found it did save on paper, but not much on time and arm/hand fatigue. The coarse paper I was using was just as "fast". > > When you get it roughed flat, you need to switch to sand paper anyway. If you are having trouble with shortening past "52", it is a technique problem and/or your paper is curling up (it is not flat anymore). I find mylar-backed self-adheasive sandpaper a great solution to the paper curling issue. > > As for technique, it probably has to do with how you hold the mouthpiece while you draw it across the sand paper. You need to apply finger and wrist force as if to lift the heel off the paper as you draw it. But the heel stays in contact as you get close to being flattened. > > I'm working on posting a Power Point presentation on my site. It was used during clinic I did in January 2009. I have a few illustration in it on table flattening. I'm adding some captions now to explain the slides. >
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
You motivated me to "get 'er done". So it is now on my site under the "Presentations" menu choice. Enjoy. www.mojomouthpiecework.com --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, David Kulcinski <dkulcinski@...> wrote: > > Please keep us updated as to when the PPt presentation is available. I am excitedly waiting to see it. >
FROM: gabivatavu1976 (gabivatavu1976)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
Sorry Peter, I don't want to discourage you even further, but I agree with Paul, it's not worth the time, energy and materials used; unles you're relly keen to volunteer for resurecting those pieces. I did one too, and you're right, they can come really good, but is it worth it? Cheers, Gabriel Vatavu --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote: > > - Hi Paul, > That's not what I wanted to hear! > I can see your point though. However the ones that I managed to get a table on play so beautifully. I have had three successes so it is tempting to go for another. Peter > -- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@> wrote: > > > > I don't work on Bergs. The stainless is almost impossible to cut. The local stores don't have enough silicon carbide paper, and I don't have enough time left in my life. > > > > Seriously, I just don't work on them. > > > > Paul Coats > > > > Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet": > > http://www.saxgourmet.com > > Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at: > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952 > > > > Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from > > http://www.saxrax.com > > For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@ > > > > --- On Wed, 4/22/09, pfdeley <pfdeley@> wrote: > > > > > > From: pfdeley <pfdeley@> > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tables on SS Bergs. > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 9:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen. > > Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right. > > Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range. > > I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players. > > However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper. > > Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique. > > Thank you. Peter Deley > > >
FROM: pfdeley (pfdeley)
SUBJECT: Re: Tables on SS Bergs.
-I suppose the ones that worked out for me were the easy ones that just "fell into place". I keep the ones that aren't clicking as side projects for those rainy day afternoon activities. However, I do have three of them now and I don't like to admit defeat so easily so I will try again soon. Since I am self-taught at this, everything I have learned to do has been achieved by going back one more time, until I get it right. peter -- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" <gabivatavu1976@...> wrote: > > Sorry Peter, I don't want to discourage you even further, but I agree with Paul, it's not worth the time, energy and materials used; unles you're relly keen to volunteer for resurecting those pieces. I did one too, and you're right, they can come really good, but is it worth it? > Cheers, > Gabriel Vatavu > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@> wrote: > > > > - Hi Paul, > > That's not what I wanted to hear! > > I can see your point though. However the ones that I managed to get a table on play so beautifully. I have had three successes so it is tempting to go for another. Peter > > -- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't work on Bergs. The stainless is almost impossible to cut. The local stores don't have enough silicon carbide paper, and I don't have enough time left in my life. > > > > > > Seriously, I just don't work on them. > > > > > > Paul Coats > > > > > > Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet": > > > http://www.saxgourmet.com > > > Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at: > > > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952 > > > > > > Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from > > > http://www.saxrax.com > > > For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@ > > > > > > --- On Wed, 4/22/09, pfdeley <pfdeley@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: pfdeley <pfdeley@> > > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Tables on SS Bergs. > > > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 9:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > I wonder if anyone has any advice on getting a table onto a SS Berg Larsen. > > > Berg Larsen just doesn't seem to believe in a flat table, even though their curves and tips are usually just right. > > > Most initial readings are always crooked and in the 60-80 range. > > > I have successfully done at least four and they all ended up to be great players. > > > However I have three right now that I have got down to about the 52 range and they refuse to come down anymore. The other problem is that the tip has come down substantially as well and I am now having to reopen them 10-20 thou. With stainless, that is going to take plenty of time and paper. > > > Any suggestions? Perhaps I need to alter my technique. > > > Thank you. Peter Deley > > > > > >