HI, what is the best way to increase/decrease resistance and or response?

I find a radial facing curve is the most free-blowing (low resistance).  A long facing curve (long radius) is the lowest resistance for a given tip opening.  
 
I use elliptical facing curves and gradually shorter facing lengths to increase resistance if a client wants it. But any facing curve with bumps and flat spots in the facing curve and uneven rails will blow with more resistance too.  I consider this "bad" resistance.  But some like the character of certain mouthpieces as they are.

--- On Wed, 3/25/09, shamasian001 <shamasian001@...> wrote:


From: shamasian001 <shamasian001@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Resistance/Response
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 2:21 PM






HI, what is the best way to increase/decrease resistance and or response?

















      

> HI, what is the best way to increase/decrease resistance and or response?
>
>
Re facing curves, I've been amazed (and also dismayed) at how some tiny
high spot on a facing can impair response. Dismayed because it seems very
hard at times to get that exact slight bump out.

Toby's mentioned this, and it's also my experience that after opening up a
mouthpiece, one has to remove material from the baffle just behind the tip
rail to decrease resistance and get a more open feel. I would go a bit
further, and say that, for example, on a tenor mpc, the slope on the
baffle for up to 1/4" behind the tip rail is important. Too much material
there gives a thin sound and more resistance.

Lastly, baffle inserts are a very useful way to decrease resistance. More
specifically, they are not a very good compensation for resistance or poor
response inherent in the mouthpiece due to the rails or baffle geometry
behind the tip. But assuming you like the way a piece plays but wish it
seemed more responsive and had greater dynamic range, the right baffle
insert can make a huge difference.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I find a radial facing curve is the most free-blowing (low resistance).  A long facing curve (long radius) is the lowest resistance for a given tip opening.  
>  
> I use elliptical facing curves and gradually shorter facing lengths to increase resistance if a client wants it. But any facing curve with bumps and flat spots in the facing curve and uneven rails will blow with more resistance too.  I consider this "bad" resistance.  But some like the character of certain mouthpieces as they are.
> 
> --- On Wed, 3/25/09, shamasian001 <shamasian001@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: shamasian001 <shamasian001@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Resistance/Response
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 2:21 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HI, what is the best way to increase/decrease resistance and or response?
>

As far as curves go, while my experience agrees with Keith's here, I think a shorter curve also gives you better response. 

  I just had good luck opening up a vintage Buescher HR #1 from .054 to .078.  It had the "Victrola" sound and I had to use a very hard reed or else it would just shut down on me.  Opening it up made it easier to blow, but the sound was still dated.  The tip rail had widened to about 3mm, so there was some room for a little rollover baffle.  I took the tip rail down to about 1mm by rolling the edge in about 4mm.  What a difference.  It's not bright or abrasive, and it might be too mild for some, but it still tunes perfectly on my old True Tone.  The greater part of resistance/response seems to be determined in the first 5mm.

I ploted the points for a Link 5 on an Excel line graph along with the original numbers for the Buescher.  That gave me a curve for both.  I used the Link 5 mainly because the tip opening was in the area I wash shooting for.  The lay on the Buescher was much longer, so I wasn't going to get it to exactly match the Link without taking down the table (which I wasn't willing to do).  As I changed the facing, I plotted the points and used the Link curve as a general referrence.  Not scientific, but it gave me a frame of referrence, eliminated any "lumps," and produced good results.  I think it's going to replace my Brilhart (which will give me a chance to work on it, the subject of my next post.)

Mark
 
 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "flemingml2000" <marklfleming@...> wrote:
>
>   I just had good luck opening up a vintage Buescher HR #1 from .054 to .078.  It had the "Victrola" sound and I had to use a very hard reed or else it would just shut down on me.  


In years gone by, tip openings were smaller, and facings longer than they are now.  Players used much harder reeds, too.

This affects the ratio of even to odd overtones, increasing the odd overtones for 180* of the cycle (when the reed is open), making the sound more like the clarinet to a small extent.

-Hi,  I guess you're speaking in general terms with the longer facing with small tip opening as being the norm in the past....The brilhart short facing alto mouthpieces were clarinet facing lengths?  Some of mine were 16mm length.  Was Brilhart an exception or are you talking really vintage mouthpieces here?-- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "flemingml2000" <marklfleming@> wrote:
> >
> >   I just had good luck opening up a vintage Buescher HR #1 from .054 to .078.  It had the "Victrola" sound and I had to use a very hard reed or else it would just shut down on me.  
> 
> 
> In years gone by, tip openings were smaller, and facings longer than they are now.  Players used much harder reeds, too.
> 
> This affects the ratio of even to odd overtones, increasing the odd overtones for 180* of the cycle (when the reed is open), making the sound more like the clarinet to a small extent.
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "John Price" <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
>
> -Hi,  I guess you're speaking in general terms with the longer facing with small tip opening as being the norm in the past....The brilhart short facing alto mouthpieces were clarinet facing lengths?  Some of mine were 16mm length.  Was Brilhart an exception or are you talking really vintage mouthpieces here?-- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "tenorman1952" <tenorman1952@> wrote:
> >

No, I was talking of really vintage, before Brilhart, etc... the old mouthpieces of the 1920's, 30's.

Paul

The Brilhart facings with a * after the number are short facings, without a star are longer facings.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

--- On Sun, 3/29/09, John Price <john_w_price33@...> wrote:

From: John Price <john_w_price33@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Resistance/Response
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 4:12 AM

-Hi,  I guess you're speaking in general terms with the longer facing with
small tip opening as being the norm in the past....The brilhart short facing
alto mouthpieces were clarinet facing lengths?  Some of mine were 16mm length. 
Was Brilhart an exception or are you talking really vintage mouthpieces here?--
In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "tenorman1952"
<tenorman1952@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "flemingml2000"
<marklfleming@> wrote:
> >
> >   I just had good luck opening up a vintage Buescher HR #1 from .054
to .078.  It had the "Victrola" sound and I had to use a very hard
reed or else it would just shut down on me.  
> 
> 
> In years gone by, tip openings were smaller, and facings longer than they
are now.  Players used much harder reeds, too.
> 
> This affects the ratio of even to odd overtones, increasing the odd
overtones for 180* of the cycle (when the reed is open), making the sound more
like the clarinet to a small extent.
>




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- Yes, you are right about the * being a short facing. I had half a dozen older Brilharts several years ago and the * 's were all the shorter facings. Perhaps that changed with more recent Brilharts though.        Peter
-- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hausmann <zoot51@...> wrote:
>
> The Brilhart facings with a * after the number are short facings, without a star are longer facings.
> 
> Bill Hausmann
> 
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
> 
> --- On Sun, 3/29/09, John Price <john_w_price33@...> wrote:
> 
> From: John Price <john_w_price33@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Resistance/Response
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 4:12 AM
> 
> -Hi,  I guess you're speaking in general terms with the longer facing with
> small tip opening as being the norm in the past....The brilhart short facing
> alto mouthpieces were clarinet facing lengths?  Some of mine were 16mm length. 
> Was Brilhart an exception or are you talking really vintage mouthpieces here?--
> In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "tenorman1952"
> <tenorman1952@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "flemingml2000"
> <marklfleming@> wrote:
> > >
> > >   I just had good luck opening up a vintage Buescher HR #1 from .054
> to .078.  It had the "Victrola" sound and I had to use a very hard
> reed or else it would just shut down on me.  
> > 
> > 
> > In years gone by, tip openings were smaller, and facings longer than they
> are now.  Players used much harder reeds, too.
> > 
> > This affects the ratio of even to odd overtones, increasing the odd
> overtones for 180* of the cycle (when the reed is open), making the sound more
> like the clarinet to a small extent.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the
> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> 
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroupsYahoo!
> Groups Links
>

Nope.  That is still the way they are sold today, with two facing options.

Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!

--- On Sun, 3/29/09, pfdeley <pfdeley@...> wrote:

From: pfdeley <pfdeley@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Resistance/Response
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 2:46 PM

- Yes, you are right about the * being a short facing. I had half a dozen older
Brilharts several years ago and the * 's were all the shorter facings.
Perhaps that changed with more recent Brilharts though.        Peter
-- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hausmann <zoot51@...> wrote:
>
> The Brilhart facings with a * after the number are short facings, without
a star are longer facings.
>