Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
to the glass?
    Would J-B Weld work here too?   Peter

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote:
>
>    Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
> of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
> to the glass?
>     Would J-B Weld work here too?   Peter

No.  I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2 
minutes.  You can try, but the frustration will kill you.  Move on to a 
more productive use of your time.

Paul Coats

I filled a small chip in a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece with epoxy, and months later, it is still there with no problems at all. I have only played this mouthpiece a few minutes occsaionally since then, in case that is relevant, but I wouldn't think so since playing doesn't destroy glue on other mouthpieces thta are played regularly.
 


--- On Thu, 2/26/09, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:

From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@yahoo.com>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:57 AM






--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@... > wrote:
>
> Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
> of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
> to the glass?
> Would J-B Weld work here too? Peter

No. I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2 
minutes. You can try, but the frustration will kill you. Move on to a 
more productive use of your time.

Paul Coats

















      

Probably you need to bring it to a glassblower who can add a bead of glass, which you will have to then grind/file/sand/polish to spec. I'm not even sure that will hold up in the long term.

tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:                              --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote:
 >
 >    Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
 > of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
 > to the glass?
 >     Would J-B Weld work here too?   Peter
 
 No.  I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2 
 minutes.  You can try, but the frustration will kill you.  Move on to a 
 more productive use of your time.
 
 Paul Coats
 
 
        
             
                          
 

Very likely the whole mouthpiece has to be gradually heated up to remove
internal stresses (annealed) before you can do something like this;
otherwise heating the tip will crack it - unless these pieces are annealed
as part of their manufacturing process, which might be the case.

Then it has to be refaced anyway, and, btw, glass dust is a health hazard.

I can't see this as a cost-effective solution.

To the extent that the area of the chip can be roughened to increase it's
surface area, that would improve the adhesion of anything used.



> Probably you need to bring it to a glassblower who can add a bead of
> glass, which you will have to then grind/file/sand/polish to spec. I'm not
> even sure that will hold up in the long term.
>
> tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote:
>  >
>  >    Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
>  > of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
>  > to the glass?
>  >     Would J-B Weld work here too?   Peter
>
>  No.  I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2
>  minutes.  You can try, but the frustration will kill you.  Move on to a
>  more productive use of your time.
>
>  Paul Coats
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think that filling a small chip and bonding two larger pieces together are
two completely different things. I would take Paul's advice and move on to
other things.

 

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of clarni bass
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:24 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece

 


I filled a small chip in a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece with epoxy, and
months later, it is still there with no problems at all. I have only played
this mouthpiece a few minutes occsaionally since then, in case that is
relevant, but I wouldn't think so since playing doesn't destroy glue on
other mouthpieces thta are played regularly.

 



--- On Thu, 2/26/09, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:

From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:57 AM

--- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups. com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@... > wrote:
>
> Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
> of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
> to the glass?
> Would J-B Weld work here too? Peter

No. I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2 
minutes. You can try, but the frustration will kill you. Move on to a 
more productive use of your time.

Paul Coats

 

--- Thank you all for the advice. My feeling was that it was not worth
trying to fix it and overall that is the feedback I got.
    I think the epoxy fix is "working" only because it just hasn't
been played enough to jar the epoxy loose.
   The  only glass piece I ever owned got chipped and ended up in the
bottom of the repairman's aquarium as an ornament. He had several of
them down there, with the cork and brass ring removed. He called it
the  Davy Jone's locker fix.    Peter


and trying  In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Haining"
<dhaining@...> wrote:
>
> I think that filling a small chip and bonding two larger pieces
together are
> two completely different things. I would take Paul's advice and move
on to
> other things.
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of clarni bass
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:24 AM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
> 
>  
> 
> 
> I filled a small chip in a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece with epoxy, and
> months later, it is still there with no problems at all. I have only
played
> this mouthpiece a few minutes occsaionally since then, in case that is
> relevant, but I wouldn't think so since playing doesn't destroy glue on
> other mouthpieces thta are played regularly.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
> 
> From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:57 AM
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups. com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@ > wrote:
> >
> > Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the tip
> > of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with adhesion
> > to the glass?
> > Would J-B Weld work here too? Peter
> 
> No. I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more than 2 
> minutes. You can try, but the frustration will kill you. Move on to a 
> more productive use of your time.
> 
> Paul Coats
>

Just to clarify: I didn't mean filling with epoxy is a professional 
solution to reapir this. I've only tried it as a fix on one of my own 
mouthpieces to see if it works. No problems after a few months, with 
the mouthpiece only played a few minutes every couple of weeks. I 
have no idea how long it would last (if at all) if I played the 
mouthpiece regularly.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@...> wrote:
>
> --- Thank you all for the advice. My feeling was that it was not 
worth
> trying to fix it and overall that is the feedback I got.
>     I think the epoxy fix is "working" only because it just hasn't
> been played enough to jar the epoxy loose.
>    The  only glass piece I ever owned got chipped and ended up in 
the
> bottom of the repairman's aquarium as an ornament. He had several of
> them down there, with the cork and brass ring removed. He called it
> the  Davy Jone's locker fix.    Peter
> 
> 
> and trying  In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Haining"
> <dhaining@> wrote:
> >
> > I think that filling a small chip and bonding two larger pieces
> together are
> > two completely different things. I would take Paul's advice and 
move
> on to
> > other things.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >   _____  
> > 
> > From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of clarni bass
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:24 AM
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > I filled a small chip in a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece with 
epoxy, and
> > months later, it is still there with no problems at all. I have 
only
> played
> > this mouthpiece a few minutes occsaionally since then, in case 
that is
> > relevant, but I wouldn't think so since playing doesn't destroy 
glue on
> > other mouthpieces thta are played regularly.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 2/26/09, tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@> wrote:
> > 
> > From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@>
> > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:57 AM
> > 
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
> > yahoogroups. com, "pfdeley" <pfdeley@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Someone has asked me if it is possible to repair a chip in the 
tip
> > > of a Pomarico. Has anyone tried this? Are there problems with 
adhesion
> > > to the glass?
> > > Would J-B Weld work here too? Peter
> > 
> > No. I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more 
than 2 
> > minutes. You can try, but the frustration will kill you. Move on 
to a 
> > more productive use of your time.
> > 
> > Paul Coats
> >
>

I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their methods may provide a solution.

Tom De Winter

Throughout the industry glass is replaced, not repaired.  

Paul Coats had the definative answer.
> > > No. I can't think of any adhesive that will bond to glass more 
> than 2 
> > > minutes. You can try, but the frustration will kill you. Move on 
> to a 
> > > more productive use of your time.
> > > 
> > > Paul Coats
> > >
> >
>

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Wier" <gregwier@...> wrote:
>
> Throughout the industry glass is replaced, not repaired.  
> 

In most, but not all of industry.

I do not know if this can be adapted to a mouthpiece repair:

http://autorepair.about.com/od/fixityourself/ss/windsh-repair.htm

   I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
bond be a lot stronger.    Peter--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,
"Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@...> wrote:
>
> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
methods may provide a solution.
> 
> Tom De Winter
>

Actually, I don't see that a chip on a crystal mouthpiece tip is under any
particular mechanical stress; but it certainly will be wet.

If the chip is very small, it may need to be enlarged and roughened in order
to increase the area of adhesion of an epoxy fix.

It might be effective to grind a small groove connecting with it, using a
very small diamond or carbide dental burr, so that the epoxy fix would be
mechanically locked in place. As is done with dental cavities.

I think that's what I'd try. Nothing to lose. Only, keep the work area wet
to keep down the glass dust.

> I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
> crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
> is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
> bond be a lot stronger.    Peter--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,
> "Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@...> wrote:
>> 
>> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
> methods may provide a solution.
>> 
>> Tom De Winter
>> 
> 
> 
> 

As in dentistry, all depends on the nature of the chip, and whether it is supported against the beating of the reed by the main material of the mpc. If the chip is only to the rail itself, and there is glass above it on the beak, an epoxy fix might work (especially using a dental or marine epoxy
 resistant to moisture). But if there is a chip through the beak as well, I find it doubtful that the epoxy bond will hold for long.

My clarinet teacher told me many years ago that he accidentally dropped a wooden mpc belonging to his father, which was his favorite mouthpiece, and chipped the corner. To his everlasting regret, there was no possible fix, though it was tried many times. Sooner or later the constant hammering by
 the reed would loosen whatever was tried and the fix, like a loose filling, would fall off.

Toby

Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:                              Actually, I don't see that a chip on a crystal mouthpiece tip is under any
 particular mechanical stress; but it certainly will be wet.
 
 If the chip is very small, it may need to be enlarged and roughened in order
 to increase the area of adhesion of an epoxy fix.
 
 It might be effective to grind a small groove connecting with it, using a
 very small diamond or carbide dental burr, so that the epoxy fix would be
 mechanically locked in place. As is done with dental cavities.
 
 I think that's what I'd try. Nothing to lose. Only, keep the work area wet
 to keep down the glass dust.
 
 > I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
 > crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
 > is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
 > bond be a lot stronger.    Peter--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,
 > "Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@...> wrote:
 >> 
 >> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
 > methods may provide a solution.
 >> 
 >> Tom De Winter
 >> 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 
 
        
             
                          
 

Well so far the arguments against trying to fix the glass mouthpiece
outweigh the pros, in my viewpoint anyway.
    I have a whole bunch of mouthpieces on hand  that I can work on
and probably improve, so I have informed the mouthpieces owner that it
is not worth it and he has already located an aquarium to deepsix it.
  If  anyone out there can really claim that they have made a
sound,permanent and not too time-consuming  repair to a glass
mouthpiece, I would love to hear about it.   Peter 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, <kymarto123@...> wrote:
>
> As in dentistry, all depends on the nature of the chip, and whether
it is supported against the beating of the reed by the main material
of the mpc. If the chip is only to the rail itself, and there is glass
above it on the beak, an epoxy fix might work (especially using a
dental or marine epoxy
>  resistant to moisture). But if there is a chip through the beak as
well, I find it doubtful that the epoxy bond will hold for long.
> 
> My clarinet teacher told me many years ago that he accidentally
dropped a wooden mpc belonging to his father, which was his favorite
mouthpiece, and chipped the corner. To his everlasting regret, there
was no possible fix, though it was tried many times. Sooner or later
the constant hammering by
>  the reed would loosen whatever was tried and the fix, like a loose
filling, would fall off.
> 
> Toby
> 
> Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote:                             
Actually, I don't see that a chip on a crystal mouthpiece tip is under any
>  particular mechanical stress; but it certainly will be wet.
>  
>  If the chip is very small, it may need to be enlarged and roughened
in order
>  to increase the area of adhesion of an epoxy fix.
>  
>  It might be effective to grind a small groove connecting with it,
using a
>  very small diamond or carbide dental burr, so that the epoxy fix
would be
>  mechanically locked in place. As is done with dental cavities.
>  
>  I think that's what I'd try. Nothing to lose. Only, keep the work
area wet
>  to keep down the glass dust.
>  
>  > I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
>  > crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
>  > is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
>  > bond be a lot stronger.    Peter--- In
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com,
>  > "Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@> wrote:
>  >> 
>  >> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
>  > methods may provide a solution.
>  >> 
>  >> Tom De Winter
>  >> 
>  > 
>  > 
>  >
>

I haven't attempted to repair any mouthpiece just yet, I'm still learning
from all of you here in this group.

 

However, I have a crazy idea - those that are more experienced with this,
please correct me if my idea is bad. there won't be any hurt feelings. :-)

 

I have a question - just how big is this chip in the mouthpiece?

 

The reason why I ask is, if the chip is large enough. my crazy idea is as
follows.

 

Maybe - just maybe - you could drill one (or more) tiny pin holes into the
mouthpiece; where the break is.. And use some sort of very thin; but very
strong wire. and "pin" the mouthpiece, like you would pin a crack in a
clarinet..

 

The pin(s) could work as an anchor of sorts, which might be enough to give a
suitable epoxy something to work with.. I don't know - it's just a crazy
idea..

 

Sincerely,

               Karsten J. Chikuri

                (student of the MouthpieceWork yahoogroup)

 

 

 

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of pfdeley
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:31 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece

 

Well so far the arguments against trying to fix the glass mouthpiece
outweigh the pros, in my viewpoint anyway.
I have a whole bunch of mouthpieces on hand that I can work on
and probably improve, so I have informed the mouthpieces owner that it
is not worth it and he has already located an aquarium to deepsix it.
If anyone out there can really claim that they have made a
sound,permanent and not too time-consuming repair to a glass
mouthpiece, I would love to hear about it. Peter 

--- In MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, <kymarto123@...> wrote:
>
> As in dentistry, all depends on the nature of the chip, and whether
it is supported against the beating of the reed by the main material
of the mpc. If the chip is only to the rail itself, and there is glass
above it on the beak, an epoxy fix might work (especially using a
dental or marine epoxy
> resistant to moisture). But if there is a chip through the beak as
well, I find it doubtful that the epoxy bond will hold for long.
> 
> My clarinet teacher told me many years ago that he accidentally
dropped a wooden mpc belonging to his father, which was his favorite
mouthpiece, and chipped the corner. To his everlasting regret, there
was no possible fix, though it was tried many times. Sooner or later
the constant hammering by
> the reed would loosen whatever was tried and the fix, like a loose
filling, would fall off.
> 
> Toby
> 
> Barry Levine <barrylevine@...> wrote: 
Actually, I don't see that a chip on a crystal mouthpiece tip is under any
> particular mechanical stress; but it certainly will be wet.
> 
> If the chip is very small, it may need to be enlarged and roughened
in order
> to increase the area of adhesion of an epoxy fix.
> 
> It might be effective to grind a small groove connecting with it,
using a
> very small diamond or carbide dental burr, so that the epoxy fix
would be
> mechanically locked in place. As is done with dental cavities.
> 
> I think that's what I'd try. Nothing to lose. Only, keep the work
area wet
> to keep down the glass dust.
> 
> > I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
> > crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
> > is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
> > bond be a lot stronger. Peter--- In
MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
> > "Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
> > methods may provide a solution.
> >> 
> >> Tom De Winter
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

I have, let say "repaired" a lot of cipped crystal mouthpieces simply refacing it completely. After having measured 
 its profile I have reproduced  the same features on the mouthpiece after taking off the cipped part.
I have used it like a blank, on wich I have repeated its original profile.
The diminution of the chamber volume some time increse the sound intensity wich can be an advantage, but if it were not
accepted by the owner it is not a problem to take out some material inside the chamber using proper diamond tools.

The lenght of the window, if it were diminished, will not affect intonation significantly.
In any case you will obtain a result that, if it isnt superior to the original, at least it is more usefull to a musician
then an acquarium decoration.
Best regards.
Manfredo Cavallini
www.clarinet.it



________________________________
a: Karsten J. Chikuri <chikurk@...>
A: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Inviato: Domenica 1 marzo 2009, 6:50:58
Oggetto: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Chipped crystal mouthpiece


I haven’t attempted to repair any
mouthpiece just yet, I’m still learning from all of you here in this
group.
 
However, I have a crazy idea – those
that are more experienced with this, please correct me if my idea is bad…
there won’t be any hurt feelings. J
 
I have a question – just how big is
this chip in the mouthpiece?
 
The reason why I ask is, if the chip is
large enough… my crazy idea is as follows.
 
Maybe – just maybe – you could
drill one (or more) tiny pin holes into the mouthpiece; where the break is….
And use some sort of very thin; but very strong wire… and “pin”
the mouthpiece, like you would pin a crack in a clarinet….
 
The pin(s) could work as an anchor of
sorts, which might be enough to give a suitable epoxy something to work with….
I don’t know – it’s just a crazy idea….
 
Sincerely,
               Karsten J. Chikuri
                (student of the
MouthpieceWork yahoogroup)
 
 
 

________________________________
 
From:MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:MouthpieceW ork@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of pfdeley
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009
11:31 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re:
Chipped crystal mouthpiece
 
Well so far the arguments against trying to fix the
glass mouthpiece
outweigh the pros, in my viewpoint anyway.
I have a whole bunch of mouthpieces on hand that I can work on
and probably improve, so I have informed the mouthpieces owner that it
is not worth it and he has already located an aquarium to deepsix it.
If anyone out there can really claim that they have made a
sound,permanent and not too time-consuming repair to a glass
mouthpiece, I would love to hear about it. Peter 

--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com,
<kymarto123@ ...> wrote:
>
> As in dentistry, all depends on the nature of the chip, and whether
it is supported against the beating of the reed by the main material
of the mpc. If the chip is only to the rail itself, and there is glass
above it on the beak, an epoxy fix might work (especially using a
dental or marine epoxy
> resistant to moisture). But if there is a chip through the beak as
well, I find it doubtful that the epoxy bond will hold for long.
> 
> My clarinet teacher told me many years ago that he accidentally
dropped a wooden mpc belonging to his father, which was his favorite
mouthpiece, and chipped the corner. To his everlasting regret, there
was no possible fix, though it was tried many times. Sooner or later
the constant hammering by
> the reed would loosen whatever was tried and the fix, like a loose
filling, would fall off.
> 
> Toby
> 
> Barry Levine <barrylevine@ ...> wrote: 
Actually, I don't see that a chip on a crystal mouthpiece tip is under any
> particular mechanical stress; but it certainly will be wet.
> 
> If the chip is very small, it may need to be enlarged and roughened
in order
> to increase the area of adhesion of an epoxy fix.
> 
> It might be effective to grind a small groove connecting with it,
using a
> very small diamond or carbide dental burr, so that the epoxy fix
would be
> mechanically locked in place. As is done with dental cavities.
> 
> I think that's what I'd try. Nothing to lose. Only, keep the work
area wet
> to keep down the glass dust.
> 
> > I think the difference is that crystal just has to look like
> > crystal It doesn't get touched or put under any stress. A mouthpiece
> > is bound to get knocked around some way or other requiring that the
> > bond be a lot stronger. Peter--- In
MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com,
> > "Tom De Winter" <tdewinter@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I've seen Jewelers advertise repair of crystal. Exploring their
> > methods may provide a solution.
> >> 
> >> Tom De Winter
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
   

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