*Anyone has any knolege on what exactely on a mouthpiece facilitates 
easyer subtones? I'm guessing a longer facing with a low baffle/floor; 
maybe moving the "break" (0.010 feeler)up a bit; so, as a rough example 
instead of having on a tenor piece 50 for the 0.015 and 40 for the 
0.010 you would have the 0.010 gauge measuring a 39 or even a 38.


*Also, what on a mouthpiece facilitates "bending of notes"
I also found that mouthpieces without a roll over baffle,the ones where 
the baffle drops from right under the tip rail, obviostly keeping the 
tip oppening-facing ratio corelated.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" 
<gabivatavu1976@...> wrote:
>
> *Anyone has any knolege on what exactely on a mouthpiece facilitates 
> easyer subtones? I'm guessing a longer facing with a low 
baffle/floor; 
> maybe moving the "break" (0.010 feeler)up a bit; so, as a rough 
example 
> instead of having on a tenor piece 50 for the 0.015 and 40 for the 
> 0.010 you would have the 0.010 gauge measuring a 39 or even a 38.

No, actually the opposite, if the .0015" feeler is 44 and the .010" 
feeler is 34, you would want a longer facing.  So you might bring 
the .0015" feeler to 50 and the .010" feeler to 40 for better subtone.

.0015" = 50 and .010" = 40 is already a long facing.

 
> *Also, what on a mouthpiece facilitates "bending of notes"
> I also found that mouthpieces without a roll over baffle,the ones 
where 
> the baffle drops from right under the tip rail, obviostly keeping the 
> tip oppening-facing ratio corelated.

You are correct.  But also, too small tip opening inhibits bending 
notes.  Larger tip openings make bending notes easier.

Paul C.

-


Thanks Paul,
so you are saying just a longer facing with the distance between the 
0.0015 and 0.010 kept at a distance of "10" on the glass (ex. 44-34, 
48-38 etc) would generally give you easyer subtones. It is true in 
most cases works that way; but I had tenor pieces with a 50 (25mm) 
facing length, where you'd feel that it could do with even an easyer 
subtones production. Thats ofcourse in a case where the sax works at 
it's best, and also with the same reed but different piece you would 
actually get more and easyer subtones


I gues what I was also wondering is if anyone tryed to cut a curve 
where the 0.010 feeler comes to a distance bigger than 10 points on 
the glass gauge (5mm); 
.......or a smaller distance instead of keeping those 10 points( 5mm) 
between 0.0015 and 0.010 create a curve with just 4mm distance 
between them.
Thanks a lot,
Gabriel















-- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "tenorman1952" 
<tenorman1952@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gabivatavu1976" 
> <gabivatavu1976@> wrote:
> >
> > *Anyone has any knolege on what exactely on a mouthpiece 
facilitates 
> > easyer subtones? I'm guessing a longer facing with a low 
> baffle/floor; 
> > maybe moving the "break" (0.010 feeler)up a bit; so, as a rough 
> example 
> > instead of having on a tenor piece 50 for the 0.015 and 40 for 
the 
> > 0.010 you would have the 0.010 gauge measuring a 39 or even a 38.
> 
> No, actually the opposite, if the .0015" feeler is 44 and the .010" 
> feeler is 34, you would want a longer facing.  So you might bring 
> the .0015" feeler to 50 and the .010" feeler to 40 for better 
subtone.
> 
> .0015" = 50 and .010" = 40 is already a long facing.
> 
>  
> > *Also, what on a mouthpiece facilitates "bending of notes"
> > I also found that mouthpieces without a roll over baffle,the ones 
> where 
> > the baffle drops from right under the tip rail, obviostly keeping 
the 
> > tip oppening-facing ratio corelated.
> 
> You are correct.  But also, too small tip opening inhibits bending 
> notes.  Larger tip openings make bending notes easier.
> 
> Paul C.
>

I find lengthening only the smallest feelers can help.  But better results are achieved if you reconstruct the entire facing curve using a radial facing curve that is long (50-52).  If you only lengthen the smallest two readings, this will create a relative bump at the 3rd and 4th readings.  Reeds do not like to bend over bumps.  So they will not respond as well as a curve without bumps.  

--- On Thu, 1/15/09, gabivatavu1976 <gabivatavu1976@...> wrote:

Thanks Paul,
so you are saying just a longer facing with the distance between the 
0.0015 and 0.010 kept at a distance of "10" on the glass (ex. 44-34, 
48-38 etc) would generally give you easyer subtones. It is true in 
most cases works that way; but I had tenor pieces with a 50 (25mm) 
facing length, where you'd feel that it could do with even an easyer 
subtones production. Thats ofcourse in a case where the sax works at 
it's best, and also with the same reed but different piece you would 
actually get more and easyer subtones




      

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I would emphasize that a very well-executed radial facing really helps the
subtone ability of a mouthpiece. Using a long-ish facing or lengthening the
"back" end a little helps also. But if you're going to take a mouthpiece with
an uneven or bumpy or flattish curve and just lengthen the facing, I don't
know that it would help much.  
  
Dan T  
  
Keith Bradbury wrote:

> I find lengthening only the smallest feelers can help. But better results
> are achieved if you reconstruct the entire facing curve using a radial
> facing curve that is long (50-52). If you only lengthen the smallest two
> readings, this will create a relative bump at the 3rd and 4th readings.
> Reeds do not like to bend over bumps. So they will not respond as well as a
> curve without bumps.  
>  
>  \\--- On Thu, 1/15/09, gabivatavu1976
> <[gabivatavu1976@yahoo.com](mailto:gabivatavu1976%40yahoo.com)> wrote:  
>  
>  Thanks Paul,  
>  so you are saying just a longer facing with the distance between the  
>  0.0015 and 0.010 kept at a distance of "10" on the glass (ex. 44-34,  
>  48-38 etc) would generally give you easyer subtones. It is true in  
>  most cases works that way; but I had tenor pieces with a 50 (25mm)  
>  facing length, where you'd feel that it could do with even an easyer  
>  subtones production. Thats ofcourse in a case where the sax works at  
>  it's best, and also with the same reed but different piece you would  
>  actually get more and easyer subtones  
>  
>

Quite by trial and error, I have found that the area behind the tip rail is the key to easy subtone.  

Try this: When you refaced, after you cut the curve you are left with a heavy tip rail. It is easy to scrape a nice tip rail with a reed knife or triangular scraper of file. Try to keep the baffle area behind the tip flat.  Spread this flatness to a good amount into the baffle. You don't want a rapid short rollover baffle. You need a good flat spot leading to a long baffle.  Test and adjust unitil you are happy. Clean it up with a fine riffler and fine sandpaper.

Look at some mouthpieces with easy response (and therefore subtone), Theo's Kali, Brilhart Levelaire, and DG original Brecker. All have a relatively flat area behind the tip.

I wonder what other have to say about this!

I am not a big fan of roll-over baffles that are high near the tip rail.  They can make response sluggish like a wide tip rail does.  Jon Van Wie used to say that they block the sound from coming out.  Lowering them a little can make a mouthpiece "bloom" into a better mouthpiece.  Good subtones comes with better response.
 
But I also think this depends on a player's embouchure.  Those who like to take in a lot of mouthpiece can blow past most irregularities that annoy those who take in little or a medium amount of mouthpiece.  Some makers spend a lot of time trying to get their clients to take in more mouthpiece rather than make a better mouthpiece.


      

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> I am not a big fan of roll-over baffles that are high near the tip rail.  They can make response sluggish like a wide tip rail does.  Jon Van Wie used to say that they block the sound from coming out.  Lowering them a little can make a mouthpiece "bloom" into a better mouthpiece.  Good subtones comes with better response.
>  
> But I also think this depends on a player's embouchure.  Those who like to take in a lot of mouthpiece can blow past most irregularities that annoy those who take in little or a medium amount of mouthpiece.  Some makers spend a lot of time trying to get their clients to take in more mouthpiece rather than make a better mouthpiece.
>
HI
Could you send me some pictures as examples of what you are talking about when you say "roll-over baffles that are high near the tip rail" and maybe a proper adjustment technique or a finished product of this kind of baffle adjustment?  That would be a great help for me.  THanks