Mouthpiece Work / Hot Mouthpiece
FROM: lancelotburt (lancelotburt)
SUBJECT: Hot Mouthpiece
Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature. Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
FROM: lancelotburt (lancelotburt)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
You guys go to sleep or what? --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "lancelotburt" <lancelotburt@...> wrote: > > Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in > my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals > meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged > me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature. > Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under > the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red > you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it > will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't > measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once. >
FROM: charvel50 (Ross McIntyre)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
Sorry bloke but I'm probably the same as everyone else----just sitting on the fence and seeing what comes of your idea. I've always wondered if this could be done but was unaware of solder without lead.(my ignorence) what is the compound? Does it have a much higher melt heat? Does it warp the piece very much? Does it plate? What compounds would it adhear to? I guess you would do the baffle first, then straighten everything out. I would be very interested to hear more. cheers Ross McIntyre
FROM: kymarto (kymarto123@...)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@...> wrote: You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
Hmmm..... help me out here then. Everything I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and smoothness of the surface so close to the tip rail has a huge effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest scratch will be noticable. Are you saying that this is not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, kymarto123@... <kymarto123@ybb.ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote: You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>
FROM: kwbradbury (Keith Bradbury)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
FYI, some members do not get questions posted until the next day when the "daily digest" comes out. But most of the active members get it right away.
I have read where Adam Niewood has used silver solder inside Links to make baffles.
If you are very close to a tip rail, like within 1/8", the leading edge shape can be important. My added baffles usually start 1/4" to 1/2" away from the tip rail.
A creamy epoxy such as J-B Weld can be used to fill in the leading edge of an epoxy putty baffle. Before you do this, you can test using dental wax whether it will make a difference or not.
I'm not moved to try any kind of melted metal to make a baffle. I see more problems than benefits.
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, lancelotburt <lancelotburt@...> wrote:
You guys go to sleep or what?
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FROM: kymarto (kymarto123@...)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
Within the bore, localized changes, even when relatively large, affect things much less than very small dimensional changes over a larger area. I seriously doubt that a small scratch would be noticeable. Think about those great Guardalas full of file marks at the baffle.
I try to polish the baffle when I redo one, but I have not noticed significant differences before and after removing all the small file marks and scratches.
With careful work and polishing the interface between the mpc material and the epoxy is something like 1/1000" or less. This is really minor. 1/1000" difference in the height of the baffle generally might make a minor difference, but not something so local.
Toby
MartinMods <lancelotburt@...> wrote: Hmmm..... help me out here then. Everything I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and smoothness of the surface so close to the tip rail has a huge effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest scratch
will be noticable. Are you saying that this is not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...> wrote:
From: kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
I see your point as far as flat baffles are concerned. I'm adding just a very little material to a roll-over baffle however. It starts right at the tip rail and extends back about 3/8". I sleep better knowing that the 2 metals are fused, and that there isn't even a 1/1000" bump just behind my tip rail.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, kymarto123@... <kymarto123@ybb.ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Within the bore, localized changes, even when relatively large, affect things much less than very small dimensional changes over a larger area. I seriously doubt that a small scratch would be noticeable. Think about those great Guardalas full of file marks at the baffle.
I try to polish the baffle when I redo one, but I have not noticed significant differences before and after removing all the small file marks and scratches.
With careful work and polishing the interface between the mpc material and the epoxy is something like 1/1000" or less. This is really minor. 1/1000" difference in the height of the baffle generally might make a minor difference, but not something so local.
Toby
MartinMods <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hmmm...... help me out here then. Everything I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and smoothness of the surface so
close to the tip rail has a huge effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest scratch will be noticable. Are you saying that this is not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote: You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
If it helps you sleep then obviously it has value.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: MartinMods
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
I see your point as far as flat baffles are concerned. I'm adding just a very little material to a roll-over baffle however. It starts right at the tip rail and extends back about 3/8". I sleep better knowing that the 2 metals are fused, and that there isn't even a 1/1000" bump just behind my tip rail.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, kymarto123@... <kymarto123@...> wrote:
From: kymarto123@ybb.ne.jp <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Within the bore, localized changes, even when relatively large, affect things much less than very small dimensional changes over a larger area. I seriously doubt that a small scratch would be noticeable. Think about those great Guardalas full of file marks at the baffle.
I try to polish the baffle when I redo one, but I have not noticed significant differences before and after removing all the small file marks and scratches.
With careful work and polishing the interface between the mpc material and the epoxy is something like 1/1000" or less. This is really minor. 1/1000" difference in the height of the baffle generally might make a minor difference, but not something so local.
Toby
MartinMods <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
Hmmm..... help me out here then. Everything I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and smoothness of the surface so close to the tip rail has a huge effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest scratch will be noticable. Are you saying that this is not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>
FROM: lancelotburt (MartinMods)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
Just a matter of taste I'm sure. I've been doing roll-over baffles for 25 years now. I don't particularly care for flat baffles. I can listen to some players playing them and not others. I tried the great Guardallas, etc., out of curiosity, but never had any desire to own or practice on one. Give me a good metal Link with a well designed roll-over baffle, and I can do everything you can possibly do on a saxophone, softly melt butter or cut steel.
I liked Paul's earlier post on roll-over baffle filing technique. My preference is to use a knife, as a bassoonist or oboist would when making a reed. Seems I have more control over just where the material is coming off.. I'll use a file in the corners though. Then polish. I have the image of the sound/response in my head and play-test after each fine adjustment..
Steve says that resonators must be metal in order to reflect the true sound of the metal saxophone. I don't know if this is so, but I do like scraping on metal more than I do on epoxy. It just feels better to me. In the end, it's the sound that counts, and I like what I'm getting.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
From: Toby <kymarto123@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:41 AM
If it helps you sleep then obviously it has
value.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From:
MartinMods
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:26
AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot
Mouthpiece
I see your point as far as flat baffles are
concerned. I'm adding just a very little material to a roll-over
baffle however. It starts right at the tip rail and extends back
about 3/8". I sleep better knowing that the 2 metals are fused,
and that there isn't even a 1/1000" bump just behind my tip
rail.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp
<kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp> wrote:
From:
kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp
<kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re:
Hot Mouthpiece
To:
MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, November
12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Within the bore, localized changes, even when relatively large,
affect things much less than very small dimensional changes over a
larger area. I seriously doubt that a small scratch would be
noticeable. Think about those great Guardalas full of file marks at
the baffle.
I try to polish the baffle when I redo one, but I
have not noticed significant differences before and after removing all
the small file marks and scratches.
With careful work and
polishing the interface between the mpc material and the epoxy is
something like 1/1000" or less. This is really minor. 1/1000"
difference in the height of the baffle generally might make a minor
difference, but not something so
local.
Toby
MartinMods <lancelotburt@
yahoo.com> wrote:
Hmmm..... help me out here then. Everything
I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and
smoothness of the surface so close to the tip rail has a huge
effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest
scratch will be noticable. Are you saying that this is
not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue,
11/11/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb.
ne.jp> wrote:
From:
kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb.
ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot
Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date:
Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is
so much easier to work
with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@
yahoo.com> wrote:
You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups.
com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder
as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on
tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
>
meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal
always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too
and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you
have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass
under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if
it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon
in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will
warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I
didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a
stainless Berg
once.
>
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: Hot Mouthpiece
As long as the material is relatively hard and smooth it doesn't matter soundwise. I agree that metal is more aesthetic than epoxy, and that it is easier to work when the base material and filler are pretty much of the same hardness. If the extra work is worth it then more power to you.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: MartinMods
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
Just a matter of taste I'm sure. I've been doing roll-over baffles for 25 years now. I don't particularly care for flat baffles. I can listen to some players playing them and not others. I tried the great Guardallas, etc., out of curiosity, but never had any desire to own or practice on one. Give me a good metal Link with a well designed roll-over baffle, and I can do everything you can possibly do on a saxophone, softly melt butter or cut steel.
I liked Paul's earlier post on roll-over baffle filing technique. My preference is to use a knife, as a bassoonist or oboist would when making a reed. Seems I have more control over just where the material is coming off. I'll use a file in the corners though. Then polish. I have the image of the sound/response in my head and play-test after each fine adjustment.
Steve says that resonators must be metal in order to reflect the true sound of the metal saxophone. I don't know if this is so, but I do like scraping on metal more than I do on epoxy. It just feels better to me. In the end, it's the sound that counts, and I like what I'm getting.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
From: Toby <kymarto123@ybb.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:41 AM
If it helps you sleep then obviously it has value.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: MartinMods
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
I see your point as far as flat baffles are concerned. I'm adding just a very little material to a roll-over baffle however. It starts right at the tip rail and extends back about 3/8". I sleep better knowing that the 2 metals are fused, and that there isn't even a 1/1000" bump just behind my tip rail.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 12:59 AM
Within the bore, localized changes, even when relatively large, affect things much less than very small dimensional changes over a larger area. I seriously doubt that a small scratch would be noticeable. Think about those great Guardalas full of file marks at the baffle.
I try to polish the baffle when I redo one, but I have not noticed significant differences before and after removing all the small file marks and scratches.
With careful work and polishing the interface between the mpc material and the epoxy is something like 1/1000" or less. This is really minor. 1/1000" difference in the height of the baffle generally might make a minor difference, but not something so local.
Toby
MartinMods <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
Hmmm..... help me out here then. Everything I've read and experienced indicates that the shape and smoothness of the surface so close to the tip rail has a huge effect on how the mouthpiece responds. Even the smallest scratch will be noticable. Are you saying that this is not the case when one uses epoxy?
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp> wrote:
From: kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp <kymarto123@ybb. ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Hot Mouthpiece
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 9:13 AM
The little edge doesn't affect anything, and epoxy is so much easier to work with...
Toby
lancelotburt <lancelotburt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
You guys go to sleep or what?
--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "lancelotburt"
<lancelotburt@ ...> wrote:
>
> Anybody ever use lead-free solder as baffle material? I have it in
> my metal Link on tenor. You can get a finer edge where the metals
> meet. The little edge bump where epoxy meets the metal always bugged
> me. Dukoff Silverite works well too and fuses at a lower temperature.
> Of course you have to take out the bite plate. The thin brass under
> the bite plate heats up really fast and if it starts getting red
> you're way too hot and soon in trouble. Stick it in cold water and it
> will warp. I don't notice any change in the facing but I didn't
> measure it. Also got it to fuse on a stainless Berg once.
>