Anybody have an opinion on this
<http://www.theowanne.com/resources/ringFacingCurve.php>  ?  Obviously a
quadratic equation won't give you a radial curve, but it looks similar
to older curves that work (i.e., a bit smaller radius at the front and a
bit larger at the back, w/r/t a true radial curve).  So, this look more
like a step forward or hype?

I think Theo's work is very good.  The curves he has fitted are very similar to an elliptical facing curve.  
 
To use a polynomial equation fit, you need to have a very good data set.  The basic equation does not assume the facing curve is tangent where it meets the table or that it goes through the tip opening.  If you choose a higher order polynomial (with X^3 and X^4 terms) you risk fitting irregularities in the data.  (Or, are these features that should be fitted?)  Since Theo chose a quadratic equation, he is trying to keep the curve from having squiggles in the middle of it.  Theo apparently had a very extensive data set to fit.
 
The elegance of using a radial fit is that you only need a facing length and a tip opening to generate a facing curve.  The formulation I use forces a tangent at the table and make the curve pass through the tip opening.   An elliptical equation adds one more variable which is the ratio of the major to minor axis.  A ratio of 1 is the same as a radial curve.
 
Theo also did a fit on facing length vs tip opening.  I prefer to pick facing lengths based on experience and what the client may want.  There are several good facing lengths that will work with each tip opening.
 
I thought it was nice that Theo put his strategy on his web site for others to see.  But he did not give everything away (which is OK).  He kept the fit constants to himself.  It looks like he has 6 of them for each mouthpiece size.  


      

While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
   
  The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?
   
  We know the "what", but I think it would be better to know the "why".  Interesting that he has found an equation that closely approximates what he has measured to be successful facings.
   
  Paul 

frymorgan <frymorgan@...> wrote:
          Anybody have an opinion on this ?  Obviously a quadratic equation won't give you a radial curve, but it looks similar to older curves that work (i.e., a bit smaller radius at the front and a bit larger at the back, w/r/t a true radial curve).  So, this look more like a step forward or hype?


                           


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       

I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than me (Like you, Paul)
could give us all an overview of the playing characteristics of different
curves.....I have some thoughts on this matter, but defer to those who know
more than I do...........

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Paul C.
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:28 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?




While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly
impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring"
facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question
is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial
curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them
up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.
But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one
at a time?
 
We know the "what", but I think it would be better to know the "why".
Interesting that he has found an equation that closely approximates what he
has measured to be successful facings.
 
Paul 

frymorgan <frymorgan@...> wrote:

Anybody have an opinion on this
<http://www.theowanne.com/resources/ringFacingCurve.php>  ?  Obviously a
quadratic equation won't give you a radial curve, but it looks similar to
older curves that work (i.e., a bit smaller radius at the front and a bit
larger at the back, w/r/t a true radial curve).  So, this look more like a
step forward or hype?





Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... 

 

It is quite easy to machine a radial curve for the facing.  This type of faciing is a portion of a circle that is tangent to the plane of the table.  This type of facing will work with most reeds, respond quickly and easily.  The reed, as it closes, does so smoothly and evenly around the curve.
   
  And it is easy to see that by changing the length and position of the radius of the curve an infinite number of facing lengths and tip openings can be made.
   
  And for most players this type if facing works fine.
   
  There is a series of articles by Santy Runyon in the files section explaining the various types of facings, how they are produced, and how and why they work the way they do.
   
  But back to the radial curve.  For some players it is beneficial to put an "easement" into the break.  Highways and train tracks do this, the begin with a very shallow turn, then slowly increase the sharpness of the curve, and toward the end of the curve, ease back out to straight gradually.  These gradual transitions in and out of the curve are known as "easements".
   
  So, a tenor facing, for example, with a radial curve and a facing length of 22 mm (44 on the E.Brand gauge) can be improved in the low end, and also how the player can bend notes, by putting and "easement" in the very beginning of the curve where it breaks away from the table.
   
  In this example, the .0015" feeler (or 0.04 mm) would measure 22 mm (44 E. Brand), and is the standard feeler for specifying facing length.  It is actually longer than that, but the feeler would have a thickness of 0.  .0015" works.
   
  The next feeler, .010" (0.25 mm) measures the "break".  This would be about 5 mm closer to the tip, or a reading of about 17 mm (34 E. Brand) from the tip.
   
  The third feeler I use, .014" (0.35 mm) would be about 2 mm closer, or 15 mm (30 on E. Brand) from the tip.
   
  What I would do to "ease" this curve is make the .0015" (.04 mm) feeler have a reading of 25 mm (50 E. Brand), the .010" (0.25 mm) would be lengthened to 19 mm (38 E. Brand), and the .014" (0.35 mm) feeler would be lengthened to 16 mm (32 E. Brand).
   
  This makes the low end very smooth and easy without hurting the top end.  
   
  Up near the tip, the machined radial facing carries the curve all the way to the very tip.  The tip of the reed would be the last to close.  A mouthpiece can be made a little more responsive by stopping the radial curve at the corners of the tip rail, and making that tip rail flat, so the entire end of the reed closes at the same time. 
   
  This is done as you draw the mouthpiece on the sandpaper, you can see two lines produced by the side rails. Just as soon as you see it start to make a wide smear on the paper, indicating the entire tip rail is in contact, stop lifting the back end of the mouthpiec  and continue drawing the mouthpiece slightly.  This produces the flattened tip rail.  You will find this is easier blowing, quicker response.
   
  This is best to do at the tip anyway for hand facing, as it is almost impossible to continue the radial curve through the tip rail.  The tendency is to lift the back end of the mouthpiece too quickly.  And as less surface area is contacted (the middle of the tip rail), the sandpaper cuts too much because the refacer can't lighten up the pressure in proportion to the amount of area to be cut just by feel.  So, the middle of the tip rail ends up with a "flip up" which induces chirping and much resistance.  I speak from experience here.  
   
  Experience does not mean I am smarter than anyone else.  Experience means I have messed up like that already... more than once.
   
  What I described earlier, slightly lengthening the length, and flattening the tip rail, forms an "easement" at both ends of the radial curve.  And I thinks this does by hand what Theo's Ring Facing describes by mathematical formula.
   
  There are some other curves... well, series of blended flats... described in Santy's articles.  These work somewhat on clarinet only because the tip opening is relatively small, and the clarinet reed can conform to those angles over a very small range of deflection.  This does not work well for saxophones, with their longer facings and greater reed deflection.  
   
  Paul

STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
            I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than me (Like you, Paul) could give us all an overview of the playing characteristics of different curves.....I have some thoughts on this matter, but defer to those who know more than I do...........

    
---------------------------------
  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul C.
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:28 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?


  
      While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
   
  The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?
   
  We know the "what", but I think it would be better to know the "why".  Interesting that he has found an equation that closely approximates what he has measured to be successful facings.
   
  Paul 

frymorgan <frymorgan@...> wrote:
      Anybody have an opinion on this ?  Obviously a quadratic equation won't give you a radial curve, but it looks similar to older curves that work (i.e., a bit smaller radius at the front and a bit larger at the back, w/r/t a true radial curve).  So, this look more like a step forward or hype?





Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...   

  

                           


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       

Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a template to make a facing curve.  The template could be any kind of facing curve shape.

Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-radial facing curves.  Hand finishing is still required for the best response. But CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good.  Far from "nearly impossible".


From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM


While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?


      

Runyon has two facing machines.  One has a cutter, like a milling machine, that moves down a straight track, cutting the table.  It then hits a stop and pivots, cutting the facing.  The length of the radius is adjustable so that facing length and tip opening are thus adjustable.
   
  This machine is used to face all of the professional models, and to make templates for the second facing machine.
   
  The second facing machine is used on the student models which are included with new instruments, and sold to other mouthpieces manufacturers.  This machine works like a key copier, cutting the facing while being guided by templates made by the first machine.
   
  Paul

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
          Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a template to make a facing curve. The template could be any kind of facing curve shape.

Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-radial facing curves. Hand finishing is still required for the best response. But CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good. Far from "nearly impossible".

From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM

While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?



                           


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       

It's possible to buy these machines?
Thank you
Emanuel

--- Sab 12/7/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> ha scritto:
Da: Paul C. <tenorman1952@yahoo.com>
Oggetto: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
A: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 12 luglio 2008, 00:03










    
            Runyon has two facing machines.  One has a cutter, like a milling machine, that moves down a straight track, cutting the table.  It then hits a stop and pivots, cutting the facing.  The length of the radius is adjustable so that facing length and tip opening are thus adjustable.     This machine is used to face all of the professional models, and to make templates for the second facing machine.     The second facing machine is used on the student models which are included with new instruments, and sold to other mouthpieces manufacturers.  This machine works like a key copier, cutting the facing while being guided by templates made by the first machine.     Paul

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@yahoo. com> wrote:      Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a template to make a facing curve. The template could be any kind of facing curve shape.

Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-radial facing curves. Hand finishing is still required for the best response. But CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good. Far from "nearly impossible".

From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM

While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?




Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
		http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

Paul
 Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax. com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com 

      
      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      Vuoi incontrare Rihanna?
Partecipa al concorso di Yahoo!
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"It's possible to buy these machines?"
   
  No, these were made by a machinist from drawings Mr. Runyon made many years ago. 
   
  Paul
   
  
emanuele raganato <emanuelerag@...> wrote:
                  It's possible to buy these machines?
Thank you
Emanuel

--- Sab 12/7/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> ha scritto:
  Da: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Oggetto: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
A: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 12 luglio 2008, 00:03

      
  Runyon has two facing machines.  One has a cutter, like a milling machine, that moves down a straight track, cutting the table.  It then hits a stop and pivots, cutting the facing.  The length of the radius is adjustable so that facing length and tip opening are thus adjustable.
   
  This machine is used to face all of the professional models, and to make templates for the second facing machine.
   
  The second facing machine is used on the student models which are included with new instruments, and sold to other mouthpieces manufacturers.  This machine works like a key copier, cutting the facing while being guided by templates made by the first machine.
   
  Paul

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@yahoo. com> wrote:
      Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a template to make a facing curve. The template could be any kind of facing curve shape.

Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-radial facing curves. Hand finishing is still required for the best response. But CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good. Far from "nearly impossible".

From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM

While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring" facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.  But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a time?






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax. com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com  



  
---------------------------------
  Vuoi incontrare Rihanna? Partecipa al concorso di Yahoo!.  

                           


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       

The Runyon machines are amazing to watch. It's a credit to Santy's genius
that they function just as well today as they did many years ago when they
were initially built. I have seen mouthpieces made on C and C machines for a
"famous" brand, and they came out of the machine absolutely ready to play,
and were sold untouched by human  hands.
 
The blanks for our "handmade" series are made on C and C equipment, and play
pretty well right out of the lathe. However, I don't trust technology, and
Paul Coats hand faces each one and forms the tip.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Paul C.
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:27 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?




"It's possible to buy these machines?"
 
No, these were made by a machinist from drawings Mr. Runyon made many years
ago. 
 
Paul
 

emanuele raganato <emanuelerag@...> wrote:

It's possible to buy these machines?
Thank you
Emanuel

--- Sab 12/7/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> ha scritto:



Da: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Oggetto: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
A: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 12 luglio 2008, 00:03


Runyon has two facing machines.  One has a cutter, like a milling machine,
that moves down a straight track, cutting the table.  It then hits a stop
and pivots, cutting the facing.  The length of the radius is adjustable so
that facing length and tip opening are thus adjustable.
 
This machine is used to face all of the professional models, and to make
templates for the second facing machine.
 
The second facing machine is used on the student models which are included
with new instruments, and sold to other mouthpieces manufacturers.  This
machine works like a key copier, cutting the facing while being guided by
templates made by the first machine.
 
Paul

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@yahoo. com> wrote:

Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you
reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a
template to make a facing curve. The template could be any kind of facing
curve shape.

Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-radial
facing curves. Hand finishing is still required for the best response. But
CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good. Far from "nearly impossible".

From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@ yahoo.com <mailto:tenorman1952%40yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
<mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com> 
Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM

While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly
impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring"
facings.  A radial curve closely approaches it, though.  So, the question
is, how much difference would it really make?
 
The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial
curve.  And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them
up" a bit to suit particular players.  So, there is room for improvement.
But how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one
at a time?






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax. com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com 


  _____  

Vuoi incontrare Rihanna? Partecipa
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/
evtR437/*http://it.launch.yahoo.com/concorso/rihanna.html>  al concorso di
Yahoo!. 




Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... 

 

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Check out the plans for making your own!  
(its CNC not C and C though  ;-) )  
  
Doesn't look too difficult....  
  
Dave  

* * *

  
  
STEVE GOODSON wrote:

> **_The Runyon machines are amazing to watch. It's a credit to Santy's genius
> that they function just as well today as they did many years ago when they
> were initially built. I have seen mouthpieces made on C and C machines for a
> "famous" brand, and they came out of the machine absolutely ready to play,
> and were sold untouched by human hands._**
>
> **__**
>
> **_The blanks for our "handmade" series are made on C and C equipment, and
> play pretty well right out of the lathe. However, I don't trust technology,
> and Paul Coats hand faces each one and forms the tip._**
>
>  
>
>
> * * *
>
> **From:** MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> [[mailto:MouthpieceW](mailto:MouthpieceW)ork@yahoogroups.com] **On Behalf
> Of** Paul C.  
>  **Sent:** Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:27 AM  
>  **To:** MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com  
>  **Subject:** Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?  
>  
>
>
> "It's possible to buy these machines?"
>
> No, these were made by a machinist from drawings Mr. Runyon made many years
> ago.
>
> Paul
>
>  
>  **_emanuele raganato yahoo.it>_** wrote:
>

>> It's possible to buy these machines?  
>  Thank you  
>  Emanuel  
>  
>  \\--- **Sab 12/7/08, Paul C._yahoo.com>_** ha scritto:  
>
>>

>>> Da: Paul C. yahoo.com>  
>  Oggetto: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?  
>  A: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com  
>  Data: Sabato 12 luglio 2008, 00:03  
>  
>  Runyon has two facing machines. One has a cutter, like a milling machine,
> that moves down a straight track, cutting the table. It then hits a stop and
> pivots, cutting the facing. The length of the radius is adjustable so that
> facing length and tip opening are thus adjustable. This machine is used to
> face all of the professional models, and to make templates for the second
> facing machine. The second facing machine is used on the student models
> which are included with new instruments, and sold to other mouthpieces
> manufacturers. This machine works like a key copier, cutting the facing
> while being guided by templates made by the first machine. Paul  
>  
>  **_Keith Bradbury[](mailto:kwbradbury@...)_** wrote:
>>>

>>>> Paul, I'm surprised by you first post on this (see below). I thought you
reported once that Santy also had some kind of facing machine that traced a
template to make a facing curve. The template could be any kind of facing
curve shape.  
>  
>  Also, CNC machines have been around for a while and can easily do non-
> radial facing curves. Hand finishing is still required for the best
> response. But CNCs can rough in the facing pretty good. Far from "nearly
> impossible".  
>  
>  From: Paul C. <[tenorman1952@ yahoo.com](mailto:tenorman1952%40yahoo.com)>  
>  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Theo's 'ring' facing curve?  
>  To: [MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups.
> com](mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com)  
>  Date: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 10:27 AM  
>  
>  While it would be easy to produce these curves by hand, it would be nearly
> impossible to create a production machine that could machine these "Ring"
> facings. A radial curve closely approaches it, though. So, the question is,
> how much difference would it really make?  
>  
>  The Runyon mouthpieces are faced on a machine that does produce a radial
> curve. And some of us have taken those facings and slightly "touched them
> up" a bit to suit particular players. So, there is room for improvement. But
> how could you translate that into anything other than hand facing, one at a
> time?  
>  
>
>>>

>>>  
>  
>  
>  Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :  
>   et.com  
>  Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:  
>  . yahoo.com/ tenorman1952  
>  
>  Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from  
>  . com  
>  For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com  
>>  
>> ---  
>>  
>
>>

>> * * *

>>

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>
>  
>  
>  
>  Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":  
>  et.com  
>  Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:  
>  .yahoo.com/tenorman1952  
>  
>  Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from  
>  .com  
>  For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax.com