Mouthpiece Work / Baffled about the baffles
FROM: pfdeley (pfdeley)
SUBJECT: Baffled about the baffles
Greetings,
I have been working casually on mouthpieces for many years and have
a question about baffles.
I know from having read in the Eric Brand manual and from
experience trying exceptional mouthpieces that the very end of the
baffle, going into the tip rail should be straight. You can actually
feel it under your thumb when done well.
I have occasionally succeeded in getting this flat spot by using a
knife as a scraper, and recently with a small triangular file that has
one smooth side. Most of the time though, I don't get a flat spot but
a mild curve into the tip.
Is there a special technique or perhaps a tool or a jig that people
use for getting this flat area?
Thank you, Peter Deley
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)
SUBJECT: Re: Baffled about the baffles
Peter, I rest the mouthpiece either directly on the workbench, or block it up a little higher on a plastic cutting board. I hold my file at a constant angle by resting the heel of my hand on the work bench. I work the file in a diagonal motion, beginning at the corners and working toward the middle of the tip rail.
As I form the tip rail, narrowing it to the desired width from each corner, I then work in the middle using a circular motion. I try to get a uniform tip rail width from side to side.
Next, I increase the angle slightly so that I am filing past the first cut, breaking over from the first filed area on into the baffle. I do a total of three angles. I don't try to make them into a smooth curve (or "roll over") at this point.
Once I have the three angles filed, It is time to smooth out the file marks and take care of those angles. I tear off little strips of the sandpaper I previously used to sand the table and facing into strips approximately 1/4" x 1" (7 mm x 25 mm).
I place the strips on the baffle, with my thumb pressing lightly on the sandpaper, and draw it out from under my thumb toward the tip, but not down at enough angle to sand on the tip rail. The tip rail is not touched at this point. You will have to change strips several times as the paper will load up. I use 5 to 6 strips to do this.
After smoothing with 600 grit paper, I will then make a few smoothing strokes with 800, then 1000 paper.
For a final polish, I have a little simple to make tool that Santy Runyon showed me how to make. I use a 3/8" diameter x 6" long (10 mm diameter x 150 mm long) wood dowel for this. One end is filed flat for about 1" (25 mm). On that flat spot I have glued a piece of 1/16" (or 2 mm) thick sheet cork. On top of the sheet cork is glued a piece of chamois.
I apply a little plastic polish, I use Kit Scratch Out, but Flitz, or any number of other polishes may be used, and polish the baffle, being careful to not polish directly on the tip rail.
Actually, the mouthpiece will play just fine without this fine polishing, but it looks more professional to the customer.
Now, after all this, turn your remaining piece of sandpaper (actually, silicon carbide paper) upside down on your glass or marble work surface. Make several strokes on the table and facing on the backside of the sandpaper. There is just enough fine silicon carbide dust on there to put a nice polish on the table and facing.
Finally, hand polish (NEVER use a buffing wheel) the outside of the mouthpiece. If it is hard rubber that has oxidized, use water and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser foam pad, and rub on the oxidized areas. You will be surprised how this cleans up. It will remove most of the green or brown oxidation. Then polish the outside with plastic polish and soft cloth.
Wash the mouthpiece in cool water and a little soap to remove the remaining polishing compound, apply a patch to the beak, and package the mouthpiece to return to your customer.
Paul Coats
pfdeley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
Greetings,
I have been working casually on mouthpieces for many years and have
a question about baffles.
I know from having read in the Eric Brand manual and from
experience trying exceptional mouthpieces that the very end of the
baffle, going into the tip rail should be straight. You can actually
feel it under your thumb when done well.
I have occasionally succeeded in getting this flat spot by using a
knife as a scraper, and recently with a small triangular file that has
one smooth side. Most of the time though, I don't get a flat spot but
a mild curve into the tip.
Is there a special technique or perhaps a tool or a jig that people
use for getting this flat area?
Thank you, Peter Deley
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
FROM: pfdeley (Peter Deley)
SUBJECT: Re: Baffled about the baffles
Hi Paul,
Thank you. As I read your explanation I see at least two parts of your technique that make more sense to me than the way I am doing it. I'll give it a try, hopefully tomorrow. Peter
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffled about the baffles
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 5:46 PM
Peter, I rest the mouthpiece either directly on the workbench, or block it up a little higher on a plastic cutting board. I hold my file at a constant angle by resting the heel of my hand on the work bench. I work the file in a diagonal motion, beginning at the corners and working toward the middle of the tip rail.
As I form the tip rail, narrowing it to the desired width from each corner, I then work in the middle using a circular motion. I try to get a uniform tip rail width from side to side.
Next, I increase the angle slightly so that I am filing past the first cut, breaking over from the first filed area on into the baffle. I do a total of three angles. I don't try to make them into a smooth curve (or "roll over") at this point.
Once I have the three angles filed, It is time to smooth out the file marks and take care of those angles. I tear off little strips of the sandpaper I previously used to sand the table and facing into strips approximately 1/4" x 1" (7 mm x 25 mm).
I place the strips on the baffle, with my thumb pressing lightly on the sandpaper, and draw it out from under my thumb toward the tip, but not down at enough angle to sand on the tip rail. The tip rail is not touched at this point. You will have to change strips several times as the paper will load up. I use 5 to 6 strips to do this.
After smoothing with 600 grit paper, I will then make a few smoothing strokes with 800, then 1000 paper.
For a final polish, I have a little simple to make tool that Santy Runyon showed me how to make. I use a 3/8" diameter x 6" long (10 mm diameter x 150 mm long) wood dowel for this. One end is filed flat for about 1" (25 mm). On that flat spot I have glued a piece of 1/16" (or 2 mm) thick sheet cork. On top of the sheet cork is glued a piece of chamois.
I apply a little plastic polish, I use Kit Scratch Out, but Flitz, or any number of other polishes may be used, and polish the baffle, being careful to not polish directly on the tip rail.
Actually, the mouthpiece will play just fine without this fine polishing, but it looks more professional to the customer.
Now, after all this, turn your remaining piece of sandpaper (actually, silicon carbide paper) upside down on your glass or marble work surface. Make several strokes on the table and facing on the backside of the sandpaper. There is just enough fine silicon carbide dust on there to put a nice polish on the table and facing.
Finally, hand polish (NEVER use a buffing wheel) the outside of the mouthpiece. If it is hard rubber that has oxidized, use water and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser foam pad, and rub on the oxidized areas. You will be surprised how this cleans up. It will remove most of the green or brown oxidation. Then polish the outside with plastic polish and soft cloth.
Wash the mouthpiece in cool water and a little soap to remove the remaining polishing compound, apply a patch to the beak, and package the mouthpiece to return to your customer.
Paul Coats
pfdeley <pfdeley@yahoo. com> wrote:
Greetings,
I have been working casually on mouthpieces for many years and have
a question about baffles.
I know from having read in the Eric Brand manual and from
experience trying exceptional mouthpieces that the very end of the
baffle, going into the tip rail should be straight. You can actually
feel it under your thumb when done well.
I have occasionally succeeded in getting this flat spot by using a
knife as a scraper, and recently with a small triangular file that has
one smooth side. Most of the time though, I don't get a flat spot but
a mild curve into the tip.
Is there a special technique or perhaps a tool or a jig that people
use for getting this flat area?
Thank you, Peter Deley
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax. com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)
SUBJECT: Re: Baffled about the baffles
Using the diagonal and circular motions of the file prevents you from filing flat spots where you don't want them.
If you just filed straight, in and out, you would file down and have a series of uneven troughs or slots. And an ugly notched looking tip rail. I speak from experience here.
You do know, don't you, that experience means I messed up like that already. Hah!
Paul
Peter Deley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thank you. As I read your explanation I see at least two parts of your technique that make more sense to me than the way I am doing it. I'll give it a try, hopefully tomorrow. Peter
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffled about the baffles
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 5:46 PM
Peter, I rest the mouthpiece either directly on the workbench, or block it up a little higher on a plastic cutting board. I hold my file at a constant angle by resting the heel of my hand on the work bench. I work the file in a diagonal motion, beginning at the corners and working toward the middle of the tip rail.
As I form the tip rail, narrowing it to the desired width from each corner, I then work in the middle using a circular motion. I try to get a uniform tip rail width from side to side.
Next, I increase the angle slightly so that I am filing past the first cut, breaking over from the first filed area on into the baffle. I do a total of three angles. I don't try to make them into a smooth curve (or "roll over") at this point.
Once I have the three angles filed, It is time to smooth out the file marks and take care of those angles. I tear off little strips of the sandpaper I previously used to sand the table and facing into strips approximately 1/4" x 1" (7 mm x 25 mm).
I place the strips on the baffle, with my thumb pressing lightly on the sandpaper, and draw it out from under my thumb toward the tip, but not down at enough angle to sand on the tip rail. The tip rail is not touched at this point. You will have to change strips several times as the paper will load up. I use 5 to 6 strips to do this.
After smoothing with 600 grit paper, I will then make a few smoothing strokes with 800, then 1000 paper.
For a final polish, I have a little simple to make tool that Santy Runyon showed me how to make. I use a 3/8" diameter x 6" long (10 mm diameter x 150 mm long) wood dowel for this. One end is filed flat for about 1" (25 mm). On that flat spot I have glued a piece of 1/16" (or 2 mm) thick sheet cork. On top of the sheet cork is glued a piece of chamois.
I apply a little plastic polish, I use Kit Scratch Out, but Flitz, or any number of other polishes may be used, and polish the baffle, being careful to not polish directly on the tip rail.
Actually, the mouthpiece will play just fine without this fine polishing, but it looks more professional to the customer.
Now, after all this, turn your remaining piece of sandpaper (actually, silicon carbide paper) upside down on your glass or marble work surface. Make several strokes on the table and facing on the backside of the sandpaper. There is just enough fine silicon carbide dust on there to put a nice polish on the table and facing.
Finally, hand polish (NEVER use a buffing wheel) the outside of the mouthpiece. If it is hard rubber that has oxidized, use water and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser foam pad, and rub on the oxidized areas. You will be surprised how this cleans up. It will remove most of the green or brown oxidation. Then polish the outside with plastic polish and soft cloth.
Wash the mouthpiece in cool water and a little soap to remove the remaining polishing compound, apply a patch to the beak, and package the mouthpiece to return to your customer.
Paul Coats
pfdeley <pfdeley@yahoo. com> wrote:
Greetings,
I have been working casually on mouthpieces for many years and have
a question about baffles.
I know from having read in the Eric Brand manual and from
experience trying exceptional mouthpieces that the very end of the
baffle, going into the tip rail should be straight. You can actually
feel it under your thumb when done well.
I have occasionally succeeded in getting this flat spot by using a
knife as a scraper, and recently with a small triangular file that has
one smooth side. Most of the time though, I don't get a flat spot but
a mild curve into the tip.
Is there a special technique or perhaps a tool or a jig that people
use for getting this flat area?
Thank you, Peter Deley
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax. com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
FROM: pfdeley (Peter Deley)
SUBJECT: Re: Baffled about the baffles
Hi Paul,
I know all about messing up a mouthpiece and learning from it. What is the saying...?" Good judgement is the result of experience. Experience is the result of bad judgement", ... or as William Blake said "If a fool would persist in his folly he would become wise".
When I first started doing this a friend gave me a rubber tenor Otto Link to play around with because it just didn't play well. I proceeded to make it totally unplayable, but kept it in my kit to remind me of what can happen.
Just recently I managed to get it playing rather nicely, even though it is a 5 now rather than a 6*. Peter
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffled about the baffles
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 8:54 PM
Using the diagonal and circular motions of the file prevents you from filing flat spots where you don't want them.
If you just filed straight, in and out, you would file down and have a series of uneven troughs or slots. And an ugly notched looking tip rail. I speak from experience here.
You do know, don't you, that experience means I messed up like that already. Hah!
Paul
Peter Deley <pfdeley@yahoo. com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thank you. As I read your explanation I see at least two parts of your technique that make more sense to me than the way I am doing it. I'll give it a try, hopefully tomorrow. Peter
--- On Sun, 6/15/08, Paul C. <tenorman1952@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Baffled about the baffles
To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 5:46 PM
Peter, I rest the mouthpiece either directly on the workbench, or block it up a little higher on a plastic cutting board. I hold my file at a constant angle by resting the heel of my hand on the work bench. I work the file in a diagonal motion, beginning at the corners and working toward the middle of the tip rail.
As I form the tip rail, narrowing it to the desired width from each corner, I then work in the middle using a circular motion. I try to get a uniform tip rail width from side to side.
Next, I increase the angle slightly so that I am filing past the first cut, breaking over from the first filed area on into the baffle. I do a total of three angles. I don't try to make them into a smooth curve (or "roll over") at this point.
Once I have the three angles filed, It is time to smooth out the file marks and take care of those angles. I tear off little strips of the sandpaper I previously used to sand the table and facing into strips approximately 1/4" x 1" (7 mm x 25 mm).
I place the strips on the baffle, with my thumb pressing lightly on the sandpaper, and draw it out from under my thumb toward the tip, but not down at enough angle to sand on the tip rail. The tip rail is not touched at this point. You will have to change strips several times as the paper will load up. I use 5 to 6 strips to do this.
After smoothing with 600 grit paper, I will then make a few smoothing strokes with 800, then 1000 paper.
For a final polish, I have a little simple to make tool that Santy Runyon showed me how to make. I use a 3/8" diameter x 6" long (10 mm diameter x 150 mm long) wood dowel for this. One end is filed flat for about 1" (25 mm). On that flat spot I have glued a piece of 1/16" (or 2 mm) thick sheet cork. On top of the sheet cork is glued a piece of chamois.
I apply a little plastic polish, I use Kit Scratch Out, but Flitz, or any number of other polishes may be used, and polish the baffle, being careful to not polish directly on the tip rail.
Actually, the mouthpiece will play just fine without this fine polishing, but it looks more professional to the customer.
Now, after all this, turn your remaining piece of sandpaper (actually, silicon carbide paper) upside down on your glass or marble work surface. Make several strokes on the table and facing on the backside of the sandpaper. There is just enough fine silicon carbide dust on there to put a nice polish on the table and facing.
Finally, hand polish (NEVER use a buffing wheel) the outside of the mouthpiece. If it is hard rubber that has oxidized, use water and a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser foam pad, and rub on the oxidized areas. You will be surprised how this cleans up. It will remove most of the green or brown oxidation. Then polish the outside with plastic polish and soft cloth.
Wash the mouthpiece in cool water and a little soap to remove the remaining polishing compound, apply a patch to the beak, and package the mouthpiece to return to your customer.
Paul Coats
pfdeley <pfdeley@yahoo. com> wrote:
Greetings,
I have been working casually on mouthpieces for many years and have
a question about baffles.
I know from having read in the Eric Brand manual and from
experience trying exceptional mouthpieces that the very end of the
baffle, going into the tip rail should be straight. You can actually
feel it under your thumb when done well.
I have occasionally succeeded in getting this flat spot by using a
knife as a scraper, and recently with a small triangular file that has
one smooth side. Most of the time though, I don't get a flat spot but
a mild curve into the tip.
Is there a special technique or perhaps a tool or a jig that people
use for getting this flat area?
Thank you, Peter Deley
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax. com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax. com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com