Hi!
Do you have idea how to do that efficiently so that you don't mess the
tip and baffle.
Thanks,

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "sakshama1" <sakshama1@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi!
> Do you have idea how to do that efficiently so that you don't mess the
> tip and baffle.
> Thanks,
>
>I think as soon as I touch a piece to the sand paper the work starts.I 
think it would be hard to change one think without changing something 
else. Jim

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

This is a difficult way to open a tip.  A lot of material needs to be
removed from the table.  Also you may need to find a smaller ligature.

The pivot point is slightly longer than the facing length as measured by
the .0015" feeler.  You actually want the true tangent point of the facing
curve and the table.

From the pivot point you can measure the distance to the tip and to the
heel.  The distance to the heel is typically 3X longer than the distance to
the tip.  The ratio of these distances can help you judge how much must be
removed from the table.  If you want to open the tip .010", you need to
remove  ~.030" off the table heel and maintain a flat table from the heel
to the pivot point.  You can measure across the body of the mouthpiece at
the heel before you start.  Then measure regularly as you sand the table to
judge your progress.

The plan is easier to determine than the execution.  If you take too much
off near the pivot point, you will need to take even more off the heel.

--- Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:

> To formulate better,
> I would like to open a piece by sanding the table at a small angle. The
> tip
> may not allow for larger opening and I'm hesitant to shorten the
> mouthpiece
> by sanding trough for that will open other issues. Have anyone taught of
> this?
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
wrote:
>
> This is a difficult way to open a tip.  A lot of material needs to be
> removed from the table.  Also you may need to find a smaller ligature.
> 
> The pivot point is slightly longer than the facing length as measured by
> the .0015" feeler.  You actually want the true tangent point of the
facing
> curve and the table.
> 
> From the pivot point you can measure the distance to the tip and to the
> heel.  The distance to the heel is typically 3X longer than the
distance to
> the tip.  The ratio of these distances can help you judge how much
must be
> removed from the table.  If you want to open the tip .010", you need to
> remove  ~.030" off the table heel and maintain a flat table from the
heel
> to the pivot point.  You can measure across the body of the
mouthpiece at
> the heel before you start.  Then measure regularly as you sand the
table to
> judge your progress.
> 
> The plan is easier to determine than the execution.  If you take too
much
> off near the pivot point, you will need to take even more off the heel.
> 
> --- Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> 
> > To formulate better,
> > I would like to open a piece by sanding the table at a small
angle. The
> > tip
> > may not allow for larger opening and I'm hesitant to shorten the
> > mouthpiece
> > by sanding trough for that will open other issues. Have anyone
taught of
> > this?
> > 
> 
> Hi, 
   Good answer!. Makes me feel good about never having attempted to do
this myself.       Peter Deley
> 
>      
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

1 or 2 mm should not change the pitch of the mouthpiece. Perhaps if it
is an atypical baffle, it may have some affect on, if removal of this
amount would change the inside volume of the mouthpiece by a
noticeable amount. Normally it should have no affect. Just think of
how big a change there is simply by pushing in or pulling out the
mouthpiece in normal tuning of the instrument.    Peter Deley


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Sakshama Koloski"
<sakshama1@...> wrote:
>
> I agree. Not to be attempted. What are the consequences of sanding
some of
> the tip and shorten the mouthpiece for 1 or 2 mil. Is it going to
change the
> pitch trough the horn or some notes?
> Thank You,
> 
> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 7:17 PM, pfdeley <pfdeley@...> wrote:
> 
> >   --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
<MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > This is a difficult way to open a tip. A lot of material needs to be
> > > removed from the table. Also you may need to find a smaller
ligature.
> > >
> > > The pivot point is slightly longer than the facing length as
measured by
> > > the .0015" feeler. You actually want the true tangent point of the
> > facing
> > > curve and the table.
> > >
> > > From the pivot point you can measure the distance to the tip and
to the
> > > heel. The distance to the heel is typically 3X longer than the
> > distance to
> > > the tip. The ratio of these distances can help you judge how much
> > must be
> > > removed from the table. If you want to open the tip .010", you
need to
> > > remove ~.030" off the table heel and maintain a flat table from the
> > heel
> > > to the pivot point. You can measure across the body of the
> > mouthpiece at
> > > the heel before you start. Then measure regularly as you sand the
> > table to
> > > judge your progress.
> > >
> > > The plan is easier to determine than the execution. If you take too
> > much
> > > off near the pivot point, you will need to take even more off
the heel.
> > >
> > > --- Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > To formulate better,
> > > > I would like to open a piece by sanding the table at a small
> > angle. The
> > > > tip
> > > > may not allow for larger opening and I'm hesitant to shorten the
> > > > mouthpiece
> > > > by sanding trough for that will open other issues. Have anyone
> > taught of
> > > > this?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > Good answer!. Makes me feel good about never having attempted to do
> > this myself. Peter Deley
> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

There are some earlier threads about this that are worth reading.

Certainly you want to practice on some unimportant pieces.

I've done this on 2 tenor metal mouthpieces and one hard-rubber soprano
piece. (I don't do work for others, just myself.) I didn't find it was all
that difficult as a matter of technical skill, although certainly quite
time-consuming in the case of the metal mouthpieces. The soprano is my main
working mouthpiece now. It was a Ponzol and I didn't want to mess with the
facing. 

The tenor pieces were not as satisfactory, but they were not satisfactory
prior to doing this either.


BL


> From: "John Delia" <bzalto@...>
> Reply-To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:12:29 -0400
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Flatening the table on angle
> 
> I'd bring it to a machinist for the initial work because in my experience it
> is very difficult to change the angle of the table with respect to the tip
> whether or not you want to open or close the tip opening.  The length of the
> lay is automatically changed as well, naturally. John
> 
> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:37 PM, sakshama1 <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>> Do you have idea how to do that efficiently so that you don't mess the
>> tip and baffle.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

I've found I've had to do this more often than not to open a piece 
any significant amount at the tip.  I'd rather err on the side of
taking excess material off the table--most of which happens toward the
heel end--than leaving too little material at the most fragile part of
the mouthpiece:  the tip.  I hate getting mouthpieces and finding them
with tips rendered paper thin from refacing and/or the mouthpiece
length shortened at the tip in order to have more thickness there to
work with.  Obviously you have to pay close attention to your break
and pivot point, working backward from the heel to that point, and if
you go too crazy with it you'll be shrinking the outer diameter of the
barrel and flattening it too much, to the point where ligature fit
will be an issue.  You've also got to remove material where the barrel
meets the table to make the table match the reed profile.  It's a lot
of work, especially with metal, but I've had very satisfactory results.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
wrote:
>
> This is a difficult way to open a tip.  A lot of material needs to be
> removed from the table.  Also you may need to find a smaller ligature.
> 
> The pivot point is slightly longer than the facing length as measured by
> the .0015" feeler.  You actually want the true tangent point of the
facing
> curve and the table.
> 
> From the pivot point you can measure the distance to the tip and to the
> heel.  The distance to the heel is typically 3X longer than the
distance to
> the tip.  The ratio of these distances can help you judge how much
must be
> removed from the table.  If you want to open the tip .010", you need to
> remove  ~.030" off the table heel and maintain a flat table from the
heel
> to the pivot point.  You can measure across the body of the
mouthpiece at
> the heel before you start.  Then measure regularly as you sand the
table to
> judge your progress.
> 
> The plan is easier to determine than the execution.  If you take too
much
> off near the pivot point, you will need to take even more off the heel.
> 
> --- Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> 
> > To formulate better,
> > I would like to open a piece by sanding the table at a small
angle. The
> > tip
> > may not allow for larger opening and I'm hesitant to shorten the
> > mouthpiece
> > by sanding trough for that will open other issues. Have anyone
taught of
> > this?
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>      
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

The problem with opening a tip like this is that it also increases the facing length.  That may or may not be desirable.
   
  If you take an angle cut from the table, and desire to keep the same facing length, then the curve ends up being abrupt at the break, and flattened somewhat in the middle.  Sketch it out on paper to see what I mean.
   
  Paul

honkytone <dwf@...> wrote:
          I've found I've had to do this more often than not to open a piece 
any significant amount at the tip. I'd rather err on the side of
taking excess material off the table--most of which happens toward the
heel end--than leaving too little material at the most fragile part of
the mouthpiece: the tip. I hate getting mouthpieces and finding them
with tips rendered paper thin from refacing and/or the mouthpiece
length shortened at the tip in order to have more thickness there to
work with. Obviously you have to pay close attention to your break
and pivot point, working backward from the heel to that point, and if
you go too crazy with it you'll be shrinking the outer diameter of the
barrel and flattening it too much, to the point where ligature fit
will be an issue. You've also got to remove material where the barrel
meets the table to make the table match the reed profile. It's a lot
of work, especially with metal, but I've had very satisfactory results.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
wrote:
>
> This is a difficult way to open a tip. A lot of material needs to be
> removed from the table. Also you may need to find a smaller ligature.
> 
> The pivot point is slightly longer than the facing length as measured by
> the .0015" feeler. You actually want the true tangent point of the
facing
> curve and the table.
> 
> From the pivot point you can measure the distance to the tip and to the
> heel. The distance to the heel is typically 3X longer than the
distance to
> the tip. The ratio of these distances can help you judge how much
must be
> removed from the table. If you want to open the tip .010", you need to
> remove ~.030" off the table heel and maintain a flat table from the
heel
> to the pivot point. You can measure across the body of the
mouthpiece at
> the heel before you start. Then measure regularly as you sand the
table to
> judge your progress.
> 
> The plan is easier to determine than the execution. If you take too
much
> off near the pivot point, you will need to take even more off the heel.
> 
> --- Sakshama Koloski <sakshama1@...> wrote:
> 
> > To formulate better,
> > I would like to open a piece by sanding the table at a small
angle. The
> > tip
> > may not allow for larger opening and I'm hesitant to shorten the
> > mouthpiece
> > by sanding trough for that will open other issues. Have anyone
taught of
> > this?
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
__________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>



                           


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