Hi team,

Been reading your excellent comments!

I have a problem with tuning the mouthpiece (chamber size, etc)

The consensus seems to be: tune the low notes with chamber size

and the high notes with mouthpiece position on the neck.

IIUC, theory does not confirm this.

Nederveen, pg 39, shows a conic instrument whose frequency is

affected by mouthpiece volume (chamber size). High frequencies

are greatly influenced, but low frequencies hardly affected at all!

We know that mouthpiece position affects high notes more than

low notes (percentage) and that affect is probably the same in both

registers.

Based on this theory, it seems to me that:

              1. Set the mouthpiece position for the correct frequency

                     for a middle-of-the-register note.

               2. Tune the octaves to second harmonic with the chamber
size,

                      resetting 1.

               3. With the octaves harmonic and the middle note in tune,

                       play the horn low register over its range. If the
scale

                      is too out of tune to be easily adjusted by the
player,

                       try a different sax.



What am I misunderstanding?

jim

Try the unlisted #4 option:

4)Buy a decent quality chormatic tuner and uncomplicate matters.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "perksjim" <mcbop@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hi team,
> 
> Been reading your excellent comments!
> 
> I have a problem with tuning the mouthpiece (chamber size, etc)
> 
> The consensus seems to be: tune the low notes with chamber size
> 
> and the high notes with mouthpiece position on the neck.
> 
> IIUC, theory does not confirm this.
> 
> Nederveen, pg 39, shows a conic instrument whose frequency is
> 
> affected by mouthpiece volume (chamber size). High frequencies
> 
> are greatly influenced, but low frequencies hardly affected at all!
> 
> We know that mouthpiece position affects high notes more than
> 
> low notes (percentage) and that affect is probably the same in both
> 
> registers.
> 
> Based on this theory, it seems to me that:
> 
>               1. Set the mouthpiece position for the correct 
frequency
> 
>                      for a middle-of-the-register note.
> 
>                2. Tune the octaves to second harmonic with the 
chamber
> size,
> 
>                       resetting 1.
> 
>                3. With the octaves harmonic and the middle note in 
tune,
> 
>                        play the horn low register over its range. 
If the
> scale
> 
>                       is too out of tune to be easily adjusted by 
the
> player,
> 
>                        try a different sax.
> 
> 
> 
> What am I misunderstanding?
> 
> jim
>

Greg -

Is it better if the tuner is powered by a replaceable battery or an AC 
adapter?

Thanks...

- Ed

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Wier" <gregwier@...> wrote:
>
> Try the unlisted #4 option:
> 
> 4)Buy a decent quality chormatic tuner and uncomplicate matters.
> 

> Nederveen, pg 39, shows a conic instrument whose frequency is
> affected by mouthpiece volume (chamber size). 

I do not have this ref.  I was wondering how the chamber volume was
changed?  Was it changed by making the mouthpiece region larger in
diameter, longer in length, or a combination of both?

I believe chamber volume does effect the entire range of the sax.  I think
you can test it this way.  Start with a large chambered mouthpiece and mark
the cork where you tuned it.  Then add putty inside it and place it back on
the cork mark.  Now check the sax range with a tuner.  The entire sax
should be sharp.  I do not know how uniform the change will be.

Now if you pull it out to tune it with the putty in the mouthpiece you will
be changing the length and making the chamber volume larger.  I think when
you tune the mid-range, you will end up very close to your starting chamber
volume without the putty.

Length effects the entire sax range too, but effects the short cone notes
more than the long cone notes.  So by trading off between length and volume
you can alter the octave tuning.


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It's better, and less complicated, if the saxophonist's 
tuner is located in the ears and the brain.

Let the guitarists and bassists use the electronic tuners, 
it saves THEM alot of time and keeps them in line, that's 
for sure.

Re the earlier discussion on "artificial mouthpieces", IMO 
the main practical use of that datum, the "natural 
frequency" of mouthpieces for the different saxes, 
(however questionably it may have been derived) seems to 
be that they are the useful notes for doing mouthpiece 
exercises, in order to learn what a good balance between 
air support and embouchure support feels like. Which one 
needs in order play well, and in tune.

BL

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:08:38 -0000
  "Ed" <edzentera@...> wrote:
>Greg -
>
>Is it better if the tuner is powered by a replaceable 
>battery or an AC 
>adapter?
>
>Thanks...
>
>- Ed
>
>--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Wier" 
><gregwier@...> wrote:
>>
>> Try the unlisted #4 option:
>> 
>> 4)Buy a decent quality chormatic tuner and uncomplicate 
>>matters.
>> 
>
>

The first consideration when establishing good intonation should answer 
this question: Is the horn leak free?  Before you do anything to the 
mouthpiece be sure leaks are not affecting pitch. 

For those of us not possessing the gift of perfect pitch using a tuner 
and regular practice of long tones holding a steady pitch is good 
training to a more refined ear. One of my favorite tuning exercises is 
octave slurs both with and without the tuner. 

If you have to alter the chamber of your mouthpiece to play in tune 
perhaps it is not the ideal mouthpiece for your saxophone. 

Ed, the power source doesn't matter, but in honor of Earth day, let's 
put your ee degree to use and give us a solar power tuner. It may need 
a battery backup for cloudy days. When you make a fortune, remember 
whose idea it was.