Most of you here have probably experienced what happens with 
intonation (high end in particular) when playing a reed that is too 
soft for a particular tip opening.  Tends to go flat, right?

Has anyone ever heard a good explanation as to WHY this happens?  
While it can be lipped up to a certain extent, there are limits to 
what can be done to compensate.

The softness of the reed has no effect on the air column length or 
volume.  This is a stretch, but if anything, a soft reed would 
decrease chamber volume by "flexing" more into the window of the 
mouthpiece which would cause sharper intonation.

If a reed is too stiff and you pinch your embouchure to compensate, 
the upper end of the horn tends to fly sharp.

Maybe the answer lies, simply, in how embouchure affects intonation.  
Too soft or too stiff of reeds affecting our embouchure - not really 
what's going on with the air column in the instrument.

Thoughts?

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The relationship between the tip opening and strength of reed 
determines the airflow into the horn or what is referred to as 
resistance.  Too little resistance or too fast an airflow yields a 
thin low pitch. Too much resistance yields a hissing quality at the 
mouthpiece and stuffy tending to be high pitch. This matter that Ed 
poses here is one of using good judgement for a compatible reed for 
the mouthpiece. Simply put more closed tips favor harder reeds while 
more open favor softer reeds.
>
 Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Ed <edzentera@...> wrote:
> 
> >   Most of you here have probably experienced what happens with
> > intonation (high end in particular) when playing a reed that is 
too
> > soft for a particular tip opening. Tends to go flat, right?
> >
> > Has anyone ever heard a good explanation as to WHY this happens?
> > While it can be lipped up to a certain extent, there are limits to
> > what can be done to compensate.
> >
> > The softness of the reed has no effect on the air column length or
> > volume. This is a stretch, but if anything, a soft reed would
> > decrease chamber volume by "flexing" more into the window of the
> > mouthpiece which would cause sharper intonation.
> >
> > If a reed is too stiff and you pinch your embouchure to 
compensate,
> > the upper end of the horn tends to fly sharp.
> >
> > Maybe the answer lies, simply, in how embouchure affects 
intonation.
> > Too soft or too stiff of reeds affecting our embouchure - not 
really
> > what's going on with the air column in the instrument.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >  
> >
>

Thanks, John and Greg, for the thought starters.

Driving for the "why"...

To simplify to some extent, the reed "oscillations" are in sync with 
the frequency of the air column - so the range of the instrument 
determines the frequencies at which the reed must be able to 
oscillate.

The reed stiffness pre-determines range of frequency "effectiveness" 
for a given pressure/velocity of air.  i.e. the natural range of the 
reed matches that of the horn without having to under or overblow.

A soft reed needs more air velocity to reach the higher frequencies, 
so at a small tip opening, this required amount of air may not be 
possible aside from compensating one's embouchure or blowing harder.

 for the thought s--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Wier" 
<gregwier@...> wrote:
>
> The relationship between the tip opening and strength of reed 
> determines the airflow into the horn or what is referred to as 
> resistance.  Too little resistance or too fast an airflow yields a 
> thin low pitch. Too much resistance yields a hissing quality at the 
> mouthpiece and stuffy tending to be high pitch. This matter that Ed 
> poses here is one of using good judgement for a compatible reed for 
> the mouthpiece. Simply put more closed tips favor harder reeds 
while 
> more open favor softer reeds.
> >
>  Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Ed <edzentera@> wrote:
> > 
> > >   Most of you here have probably experienced what happens with
> > > intonation (high end in particular) when playing a reed that is 
> too
> > > soft for a particular tip opening. Tends to go flat, right?
> > >
> > > Has anyone ever heard a good explanation as to WHY this happens?
> > > While it can be lipped up to a certain extent, there are limits 
to
> > > what can be done to compensate.
> > >
> > > The softness of the reed has no effect on the air column length 
or
> > > volume. This is a stretch, but if anything, a soft reed would
> > > decrease chamber volume by "flexing" more into the window of the
> > > mouthpiece which would cause sharper intonation.
> > >
> > > If a reed is too stiff and you pinch your embouchure to 
> compensate,
> > > the upper end of the horn tends to fly sharp.
> > >
> > > Maybe the answer lies, simply, in how embouchure affects 
> intonation.
> > > Too soft or too stiff of reeds affecting our embouchure - not 
> really
> > > what's going on with the air column in the instrument.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> >
>

I never thought about this before.  Mostly because in my own playing it is
the other extreme that I had to fix few years back on bari sax.  I was
trying to get more volume to balance in a 3-horn band (called the Mojo
Swing).  I went to a wider tip and harder reed.  I had a tendency to bite
the high notes sharp.  I think this happens because I was using my
embouchure to close the tip off a little in order to get the notes to speak
easier.

Perhaps the opposite is happening with too soft of a reed.  You are loosing
your embouchure to keep the high notes from closing off when you blow hard.
 When you go "Yawwww" with your embouchure, the pitch drops.  


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Yes, this is much more noticeable on Clarinet than sax, but I also 
notice it on sax too

here's some more information with links
go to the 2nd page of postings, and about the 5th posting down.
http://woodwindforum.com/community/viewtopic.php?
f=26&t=529&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=d69aaf65afc74a904099d01ef6fed281&start=
25

there's been discussion of it on ClarinetBBoard too.
I brought it up about 2 years ago on the ClarBB when I started 
manipulating clarinet mpcs in length to compensate for doublers type 
embouchures who also usually use softer reeds and play flat.


on sax I cn use a harder reed on a larger tip, I change my airstream 
to stimulate the reed in a diff manner.  Gives a nice full, deep 
tone - a trick i picked up from playing clarinet.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <edzentera@...> wrote:
>
> Most of you here have probably experienced what happens with 
> intonation (high end in particular) when playing a reed that is 
too 
> soft for a particular tip opening.  Tends to go flat, right?
> 
> Has anyone ever heard a good explanation as to WHY this happens?  
> While it can be lipped up to a certain extent, there are limits to 
> what can be done to compensate.
> 
> The softness of the reed has no effect on the air column length or 
> volume.  This is a stretch, but if anything, a soft reed would 
> decrease chamber volume by "flexing" more into the window of the 
> mouthpiece which would cause sharper intonation.
> 
> If a reed is too stiff and you pinch your embouchure to 
compensate, 
> the upper end of the horn tends to fly sharp.
> 
> Maybe the answer lies, simply, in how embouchure affects 
intonation.  
> Too soft or too stiff of reeds affecting our embouchure - not 
really 
> what's going on with the air column in the instrument.
> 
> Thoughts?
>