Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed but I haven't been able to find 
exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that needs 
refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it and 
it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select the 
proper radial curvature of the facing? 
I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots for 
you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an ideal 
curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render the 
most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not even, 
also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 thou's). 
How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with Alto,tenor 
and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular # 
of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
appreciated.

You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel programs and will cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead of paying hundreds for microsoft office

maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote:          Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed but I haven't been able to find 
exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that needs 
refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it and 
it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select the 
proper radial curvature of the facing? 
I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots for 
you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an ideal 
curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render the 
most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not even, 
also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 thou's). 
How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with Alto,tenor 
and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular # 
of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
appreciated.



                         

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

Or you can download it for free here: http://www.openoffice.org/

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Ted Kutzer <jazzmanted@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel programs and will
> cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead of paying hundreds for
> microsoft office
>
>
> maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote:
>

Clarification: Open Office is free to download. It can be obtained here: http://www.openoffice.org/

-Doug

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ted Kutzer 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Establishing A New facing Without Excel


  You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel programs and will cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead of paying hundreds for microsoft office

  maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote: 

    Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed but I haven't been able to find 
    exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that needs 
    refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it and 
    it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select the 
    proper radial curvature of the facing? 
    I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots for 
    you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
    readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an ideal 
    curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render the 
    most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
    that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not even, 
    also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 thou's). 
    How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
    situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
    available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with Alto,tenor 
    and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
    that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular # 
    of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
    appreciated.






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

   

Don't waste your money on Easy Office or Open Office.  They lose a lot with Word and Excell.  Things get all scrambled.  
   
  Paul

Ted Kutzer <jazzmanted@...> wrote:
          You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel programs and will cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead of paying hundreds for microsoft office

maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote:       Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed but I haven't been able to find 
exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that needs 
refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it and 
it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select the 
proper radial curvature of the facing? 
I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots for 
you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an ideal 
curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render the 
most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not even, 
also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 thou's). 
How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with Alto,tenor 
and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular # 
of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
appreciated.




    
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.  

                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

I believe open office is free-mine was. www.openoffice.org

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> 
wrote:
>
> Don't waste your money on Easy Office or Open Office.  They lose a 
lot with Word and Excell.  Things get all scrambled.  
>    
>   Paul
> 
> Ted Kutzer <jazzmanted@...> wrote:
>           You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel 
programs and will cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead 
of paying hundreds for microsoft office
> 
> maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote:       Sorry, I'm sure this has been 
discussed but I haven't been able to find 
> exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that 
needs 
> refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it 
and 
> it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select 
the 
> proper radial curvature of the facing? 
> I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots 
for 
> you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
> readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an 
ideal 
> curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render 
the 
> most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
> that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not 
even, 
> also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 
thou's). 
> How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
> situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
> available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with 
Alto,tenor 
> and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
> that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular 
# 
> of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
> appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
> ---------------------------------
>   Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! 
Mobile. Try it now.  
> 
>                          
> 
> 
> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
> 		http://www.saxgourmet.com
> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
>            http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
> 
> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
> http://www.saxrax.com 
> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  
Try it now.
>

If you want access to excel files at little or no cost, install
Office97. It works for me with XP & copies can be obtained very cheaply.

Don

Of course the "classic" refacers did not have Excel.  Most of them have
their secret notebook of facing curves based on measurements from
mouthpieces they liked or their clients liked.  Many, if not most, still
practice the craft this way today.

I suppose a few clever ones could carry out calculations long hand and/or
tried to use large sheets of graph paper for analysis.  But the power of
using a spreadsheet, like Excel, is a powerful tool available to all.  I
use it before and during my refacing work.  It is also my database of
records.  You can find MS Office 2003 Student Edition (w/Excel) for under
$100 on ebay.  

However, just buying the tool alone will not help.  There is a learning
curve.  If you do not already know the basics of Excel from using it on
other applications, you will find it difficult to understand and manipulate
the spreadsheets shared on the MP Work Yahoo site.  

I think it is beyond the scope of this group to try and teach Excel to
non-users.  But if someone wants to try, I'm OK with it.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

A completely compatable alternative to MS Ofice is OpenOffice, available for FREE at Openoffice.org. In my book, free beats $100.00 anytime!

On Saturday, February 23, 2008, at 08:40AM, "Keith Bradbury" <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>Of course the "classic" refacers did not have Excel.  Most of them have
>their secret notebook of facing curves based on measurements from
>mouthpieces they liked or their clients liked.  Many, if not most, still
>practice the craft this way today.
>
>I suppose a few clever ones could carry out calculations long hand and/or
>tried to use large sheets of graph paper for analysis.  But the power of
>using a spreadsheet, like Excel, is a powerful tool available to all.  I
>use it before and during my refacing work.  It is also my database of
>records.  You can find MS Office 2003 Student Edition (w/Excel) for under
>$100 on ebay.  
>
>However, just buying the tool alone will not help.  There is a learning
>curve.  If you do not already know the basics of Excel from using it on
>other applications, you will find it difficult to understand and manipulate
>the spreadsheets shared on the MP Work Yahoo site.  
>
>I think it is beyond the scope of this group to try and teach Excel to
>non-users.  But if someone wants to try, I'm OK with it.
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
>Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

Sure, nothing beats free.   But does Open Office have all the features 
of Excel?  Does it have the equation "Solver" feature?  

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Of course the "classic" refacers did not have Excel.  Most of them 
have
> their secret notebook of facing curves based on measurements from
> mouthpieces they liked or their clients liked.  Many, if not most, 
still
> practice the craft this way today.
> 
> I suppose a few clever ones could carry out calculations long hand 
and/or
> tried to use large sheets of graph paper for analysis.  But the 
power of
> using a spreadsheet, like Excel, is a powerful tool available to 
all.  I
> use it before and during my refacing work.  It is also my database 
of
> records.  You can find MS Office 2003 Student Edition (w/Excel) for 
under
> $100 on ebay.  
> 
> However, just buying the tool alone will not help.  There is a 
learning
> curve.  If you do not already know the basics of Excel from using 
it on
> other applications, you will find it difficult to understand and 
manipulate
> the spreadsheets shared on the MP Work Yahoo site.  
> 
> I think it is beyond the scope of this group to try and teach Excel 
to
> non-users.  But if someone wants to try, I'm OK with it.
> 
> Ok, so how about if I word it this way and ignoring the methods of 
obtaining a software program. If I was on a desert island with a flat 
pce of glass, some sandpaper and an assortment of files, glass guage 
and feeler gauges, graph paper, a mpce that doesn't play, and a sax 
how would I be on the right track to getting the optimum playability 
out of this mpce? (Taking into consideration evening the rails, a 
flat table,and a consistent well shaped tip and not taking any 
inside work as baffle,etc., into consideration.) After plotting a 
very uneven facing and establishing the opening that I find 
comfortable to play, leaving the facing length alone, would I try and 
draw an even radial curve on my graph paper, and if drawn to scale,do 
the appropriate sanding and measuring to meet these points? Again, I 
do not know that this mpce was not worked on and that any of the 
original parameters or characteristics of this mpce are intact. 
Also knowing that I changed the tip opening to a more open tip, what 
would be the radius that I would use to create this new profile of 
facing? A radius of 4.5, 5.0 etc?? How would you decide which radius 
is the best besides play testing? or is this the only way to get to 
my ideal mpce?
Thanks for the responses so far but I think the above is more what I 
wanted to ask. I'd like to understand this process more b4 I rely on 
a program to get me there.
>       
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

I don't know what the equation factor feature is but it probably does.This is a program that was developed for unix a free operating system.There is also a program that is similar to quick books for your business that can be gotton for free or cheap.It opens all microsoft files as does the open office open all office files.It prints your graphs and charts and allows users to make there own compatable stuff.Microsoft doesn't want you to know about ..you might want to look up linspher,unix etc and read about them.I got very annoyed when microsoft and all its vendors stopped supporting me.The only thing I don't like is sound and advanced graphics cards are only slightly supported.It's quite nice and I plan on converting all my old stuff to it.Not only is it free but you can load the operating system on as many computers as you like.Red hat has more features as do others but you have to pay for it.Unix is truly for computers what ben and jerry's were for ice cream Keith
 Bradbury <mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:          Sure, nothing beats free. But does Open Office have all the features 
of Excel? Does it have the equation "Solver" feature? 



                         

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

My experience with Open and Easy Office was bad.  Like trying to open a late version document with an early version program.  Inserted objects (photos, diagrams, etc) were lost.  Lines, boxes, shading, and other formatting lost.  Unless the Excell form was a very basic spreadsheet, it just did not work.  Ditto with the Word equivilent program.  Just unusable.
   
  As I remember, formulas sometimes worked.  The equation solver, or help, where it suggests proper syntax for your formula, was not present.
   
  Paul Coats

Keith Bradbury <mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:
          Sure, nothing beats free. But does Open Office have all the features 
of Excel? Does it have the equation "Solver" feature? 



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

I guess it depends what version you have and how it's installed.I've printed and collated every chart here and not had 1 problem.mine is version 3.2 on xp with a2.66 ghz processor and 2 gb of ram.

"Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote:            My experience with Open and Easy Office was bad.  Like trying to open a late version document with an early version program.  Inserted objects (photos, diagrams, etc) were lost.  Lines, boxes, shading, and other formatting lost.  Unless the Excell form was a very basic spreadsheet, it just did not work.  Ditto with the Word equivilent program.  Just unusable.
   
  As I remember, formulas sometimes worked.  The equation solver, or help, where it suggests proper syntax for your formula, was not present.
   
  Paul Coats

Keith Bradbury <mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:
      Sure, nothing beats free. But does Open Office have all the features 
of Excel? Does it have the equation "Solver" feature? 






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...    
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.  

                         

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

You may not be able to get to an "optimum" facing curve in this scenario.

The Files area has a basic sequence of steps you can follow.  The hard part
will be improving the facing curve without a set of targets.

You can make improvements by first making the facing even left to right. 
Then try to identify bumps (short radius curves) and kinks in the curve.   
You may be able to tell with measurements and/or by observing how light
reflects off the rails.  Blend these out to a flatter curve.

Also, look for flat sections.  These need to be more curved. However this
is a lot of work since now you need to leave the flat spots alone while
bringing down the rest of the curve.

> > Ok, so how about if I word it this way and ignoring the methods of 
> obtaining a software program. If I was on a desert island with a flat 
> pce of glass, some sandpaper and an assortment of files, glass guage 
> and feeler gauges, graph paper, a mpce that doesn't play, and a sax 
> how would I be on the right track to getting the optimum playability 
> out of this mpce? (Taking into consideration evening the rails, a 
> flat table,and a consistent well shaped tip and not taking any 
> inside work as baffle,etc., into consideration.) After plotting a 
> very uneven facing and establishing the opening that I find 
> comfortable to play, leaving the facing length alone, would I try and 
> draw an even radial curve on my graph paper, and if drawn to scale,do 
> the appropriate sanding and measuring to meet these points? Again, I 
> do not know that this mpce was not worked on and that any of the 
> original parameters or characteristics of this mpce are intact. 
> Also knowing that I changed the tip opening to a more open tip, what 
> would be the radius that I would use to create this new profile of 
> facing? A radius of 4.5, 5.0 etc?? How would you decide which radius 
> is the best besides play testing? or is this the only way to get to 
> my ideal mpce?
> Thanks for the responses so far but I think the above is more what I 
> wanted to ask. I'd like to understand this process more b4 I rely on 
> a program to get me there.
> >       
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> 
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------If you're asking how to do the math by hand, it can be done, but if you're
asking how to establish refacing targets without the math - refacers have
traditionally worked that way, but I imagine they established sets of target
numbers through extensive trial and error.  
  
As far as the math goes, the radius itself is not very important, but you need
to find a curve that is a segment of a circle, with the flat table of the
mouthpiece tangent to it. Any given tip opening and facing length will yield
only one such curve - the spreadsheet calculates the feeler gauge readings
you'd need to execute that curve. It also converts mm (used to measure length)
and inches (generally used to measure tip openings) to make it all line up
right.  
  
Dan T  
  
Keith Bradbury wrote:

> You may not be able to get to an "optimum" facing curve in this scenario.  
>  
>  The Files area has a basic sequence of steps you can follow. The hard part  
>  will be improving the facing curve without a set of targets.  
>  
>  You can make improvements by first making the facing even left to right.  
>  Then try to identify bumps (short radius curves) and kinks in the curve.  
>  You may be able to tell with measurements and/or by observing how light  
>  reflects off the rails. Blend these out to a flatter curve.  
>  
>  Also, look for flat sections. These need to be more curved. However this  
>  is a lot of work since now you need to leave the flat spots alone while  
>  bringing down the rest of the curve.  
>  
>  > > Ok, so how about if I word it this way and ignoring the methods of  
>  > obtaining a software program. If I was on a desert island with a flat  
>  > pce of glass, some sandpaper and an assortment of files, glass guage  
>  > and feeler gauges, graph paper, a mpce that doesn't play, and a sax  
>  > how would I be on the right track to getting the optimum playability  
>  > out of this mpce? (Taking into consideration evening the rails, a  
>  > flat table,and a consistent well shaped tip and not taking any  
>  > inside work as baffle,etc., into consideration.) After plotting a  
>  > very uneven facing and establishing the opening that I find  
>  > comfortable to play, leaving the facing length alone, would I try and  
>  > draw an even radial curve on my graph paper, and if drawn to scale,do  
>  > the appropriate sanding and measuring to meet these points? Again, I  
>  > do not know that this mpce was not worked on and that any of the  
>  > original parameters or characteristics of this mpce are intact.  
>  > Also knowing that I changed the tip opening to a more open tip, what  
>  > would be the radius that I would use to create this new profile of  
>  > facing? A radius of 4.5, 5.0 etc?? How would you decide which radius  
>  > is the best besides play testing? or is this the only way to get to  
>  > my ideal mpce?  
>  > Thanks for the responses so far but I think the above is more what I  
>  > wanted to ask. I'd like to understand this process more b4 I rely on  
>  > a program to get me there.  
>  > >  
>  > __________________________________________________________  
>  > ______________  
>  > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.  
>  > > [http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs](http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs)  
>  > >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  
>  __________________________________________________________  
>  Be a better friend, newshound, and  
>  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> [http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ](http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ)  
>  
>

You can get it as a download for FREE!

Ted Kutzer <jazzmanted@...> wrote:          You can buy open office on ebay which will open all excel programs and will cost you like 14 bucks including shipping instead of paying hundreds for microsoft office

maddahorn <fmarych@...> wrote:       Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed but I haven't been able to find 
exactly what I'm looking for. Relative to refacing a mpce that needs 
refacing, meaning that it looks like there was some work done to it and 
it definitely does not play well the way it is. How do you select the 
proper radial curvature of the facing? 
I don't have access to the Excel program I've read about that plots for 
you the ideal curvature nor do I have access to a list of plotted 
readings of my particular mpce. I would not know the radius of an ideal 
curvature for this mpce either. Is it a logical approach to render the 
most smoothest curve relative to the plotted readings taken - given 
that the readings taken of the this mpce are up and down and not even, 
also that the tip opening will be opened slightly (maybe 5-8 thou's). 
How do you judge what is the best arc of the facing given this 
situation? Or is there a list of radial curves for particular mpces 
available that are considered ideal. I would be dealing with Alto,tenor 
and bari pces. If this particular issue has been discussed in a way 
that a novice could understand it please refer me to the particular # 
of the discussions. Any insight to this query would be greatly 
appreciated.




    
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.  


Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

Hey Dan,
  When I make a new facing,I use my system of trial and error.First I make sure the rails are square than I start to make changes in the curve creating new flat spots.In a curve there are an infinite number of flat spots.After I get my piece working for the purpose I intend,I make a hand graph of all the numbers every 2,000's and put it in an envelope with my other facing charts.
                  Mikole Kaar

Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...> wrote:
          If you're asking how to do the math by hand, it can be done, but if you're asking how to establish refacing targets without the math -  refacers have traditionally worked that way, but I imagine they established sets of target numbers through extensive trial and error.

As far as the math goes, the radius itself is not very important, but you need to find a curve that is a segment of a circle, with the flat table of the mouthpiece tangent to it.  Any given tip opening and facing length will yield only one such curve - the spreadsheet calculates the feeler gauge readings you'd need to execute that curve.  It also converts mm (used to measure length) and inches (generally used to measure tip openings) to make it all line up right.

Dan T

Keith Bradbury wrote:       You may not be able to get to an "optimum" facing curve in this scenario.

The Files area has a basic sequence of steps you can follow. The hard part
will be improving the facing curve without a set of targets.

You can make improvements by first making the facing even left to right. 
Then try to identify bumps (short radius curves) and kinks in the curve. 
You may be able to tell with measurements and/or by observing how light
reflects off the rails. Blend these out to a flatter curve.

Also, look for flat sections. These need to be more curved. However this
is a lot of work since now you need to leave the flat spots alone while
bringing down the rest of the curve.

> > Ok, so how about if I word it this way and ignoring the methods of 
> obtaining a software program. If I was on a desert island with a flat 
> pce of glass, some sandpaper and an assortment of files, glass guage 
> and feeler gauges, graph paper, a mpce that doesn't play, and a sax 
> how would I be on the right track to getting the optimum playability 
> out of this mpce? (Taking into consideration evening the rails, a 
> flat table,and a consistent well shaped tip and not taking any 
> inside work as baffle,etc., into consideration.) After plotting a 
> very uneven facing and establishing the opening that I find 
> comfortable to play, leaving the facing length alone, would I try and 
> draw an even radial curve on my graph paper, and if drawn to scale,do 
> the appropriate sanding and measuring to meet these points? Again, I 
> do not know that this mpce was not worked on and that any of the 
> original parameters or characteristics of this mpce are intact. 
> Also knowing that I changed the tip opening to a more open tip, what 
> would be the radius that I would use to create this new profile of 
> facing? A radius of 4.5, 5.0 etc?? How would you decide which radius 
> is the best besides play testing? or is this the only way to get to 
> my ideal mpce?
> Thanks for the responses so far but I think the above is more what I 
> wanted to ask. I'd like to understand this process more b4 I rely on 
> a program to get me there.
> > 
> __________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> 
> 
> 

__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



  

                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

When did you last try it?  It's gotten much better in the last couple
of years.

I use the Mac-specific version Neo Office, and it has opened almost
every file I created in Office 2003 with no problems.  The only
exceptions were for Power Point slide shows, which required some
fiddling to make work.

Specifically, the spreadsheet in the current version of Neo Office (or
Open Office) is quite good.  It's a little deficient in the graphing
capabilities, but otherwise supports every feature I use.  It
certainly opens every file from this group.  It will also save in
Excel format, so it's possible to share files with others.

-Steve Keller

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
>
> My experience with Open and Easy Office was bad.  Like trying to
open a late version document with an early version program.  Inserted
objects (photos, diagrams, etc) were lost.  Lines, boxes, shading, and
other formatting lost.  Unless the Excell form was a very basic
spreadsheet, it just did not work.  Ditto with the Word equivilent
program.  Just unusable.
>    
>   As I remember, formulas sometimes worked.  The equation solver, or
help, where it suggests proper syntax for your formula, was not present.
>    
>   Paul Coats
> 
> Keith Bradbury <mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:
>           Sure, nothing beats free. But does Open Office have all
the features 
> of Excel? Does it have the equation "Solver" feature? 
> 
> 
> 
>                          
> 
> 
> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
> 		http://www.saxgourmet.com
> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
>            http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
> 
> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
> http://www.saxrax.com 
> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
Try it now.
>

About 2 yrs ago.
   
  Paul

Steve Keller <esteban_cadenza@...> wrote:
          When did you last try it? It's gotten much better in the last couple
of years.

I use the Mac-specific version Neo Office, and it has opened almost
every file I created in Office 2003 with no problems. The only
exceptions were for Power Point slide shows, which required some
fiddling to make work.

Specifically, the spreadsheet in the current version of Neo Office (or
Open Office) is quite good. It's a little deficient in the graphing
capabilities, but otherwise supports every feature I use. It
certainly opens every file from this group. It will also save in
Excel format, so it's possible to share files with others.

-Steve Keller

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
>
> My experience with Open and Easy Office was bad. Like trying to
open a late version document with an early version program. Inserted
objects (photos, diagrams, etc) were lost. Lines, boxes, shading, and
other formatting lost. Unless the Excell form was a very basic
spreadsheet, it just did not work. Ditto with the Word equivilent
program. Just unusable.
> 
> As I remember, formulas sometimes worked. The equation solver, or
help, where it suggests proper syntax for your formula, was not present.
> 
> Paul Coats
> 
> Keith Bradbury <mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:
> Sure, nothing beats free. But does Open Office have all
the features 
> of Excel? Does it have the equation "Solver" feature? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
> http://www.saxgourmet.com
> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
> 
> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
> http://www.saxrax.com 
> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 
Try it now.
>



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

Hi all,

I am not very vocal on this list, but I have learned so much and I 
want to contribute a spreadsheet and instructions to generate a 
facing schedule for all those who have been asking about this the 
last few days. I spent yesterday putting together a package by 
modifying Keith's Facing Curve spreadsheet so that any one should be 
able to use it.

Open Office is working on a Solver feature, but apparently there is 
some raw nerves and some controversy on the solver issue. I tried an 
Open Office solver add-in and it does not work the same as the Excel 
solver. The Go-Oo version of Open Office Calc solver also does not 
work. Neither does the Gnumeric version--at least not the same as 
Excel.

I have uploaded a file in the How to area called Facing 
Schedule.zip.  It has a spreadsheet and a text file with some 
instructions to use the spreadsheet.  I know there has been some 
concerns about using a spreadsheet other than Excel.  I have tested 
this spreadsheet with Open Office Calc 2.3.1 and Gnumeric 1.7.2 on 
Windows XP.  They are both free spreadsheets so no more whining about 
spending $$$.  I don't have a Mac or other OS, so I'm sorry about 
that.

If you have Excel 2000, 2002, or 2003, the instructions show you how 
to use the Solver function to solve for the curve.  If you do not, 
there is a manual method, explained step by step to get an accurate 
value for the curve. It's not too bad.  It is repetitive, but I think 
you can get a good curve in 5 minutes.

I think I covered everything in the instructions.  I hope you find it 
useful.  Many thanks to Keith and this list.

Willis

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury" 
<mojomouthpiecework@...> wrote:
>
> Sure, nothing beats free.   But does Open Office have all the 
features 
> of Excel?  Does it have the equation "Solver" feature?
>