Has anyone ever done any measuring or reworking on German-style
soprano clarinet mouthpieces? What do the facing curves look like?
What are the chambers like (internal volume, dimensions, etc)? What
are the differences and similarities between German and French? Any
special precautions or tricks? Thanks for any and all info. - Brent 

I have not really done much work on German Clarinet Mouthpieces, but I
have measured a few and I was playing on them for a couple years.
Generally, they are very very long and very very narrow.  My 0.03mm
feeler (sorry, I don't know what it is in inches) goes more than the
45 mark and a 1mm feeler sometimes just bearly goes in- sometimes a
1mm won't even make it in the tip at all.
They are also generally longer than French pieces and the bore is
bigger and the beak is smaller- playing them is almost like playing
Saxophone in terms of mouthpiece angle.
All of this can vary greatly and the few pieces I worked with are by
no means the only things out there.  If you are looking for really
good German pieces to play, I highly suggest AW.  I have an Eb piece
from them to go with a German Effer that is just great. www.aw-
reeds.com

I just finished getting the measurements on my Fritz Wurlitzer with the inscription Erlbach i.v. and three inscribed pierced dots to the side of the lay.  I came up with the following measurements:  A. 40110; B. 10; C. 5; D. 3; E. tip opening 20 mm.  This is a very loud focused German mouthpiece that has the grooves around the body for the string ligature.  I am new to measuring so if you have any questions about what I have given you just ask and we can work it out.  I have a lot of vintage clarinet pieces.  I think this one is VERY old.  I hope this helps.  Steven

----- Original Message ----
From: skygardener1 <skygardener1@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 9:34:33 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces















  


    
            I have not really done much work on German Clarinet Mouthpieces, but I

have measured a few and I was playing on them for a couple years.

Generally, they are very very long and very very narrow.  My 0.03mm

feeler (sorry, I don't know what it is in inches) goes more than the

45 mark and a 1mm feeler sometimes just bearly goes in- sometimes a

1mm won't even make it in the tip at all.

They are also generally longer than French pieces and the bore is

bigger and the beak is smaller- playing them is almost like playing

Saxophone in terms of mouthpiece angle.

All of this can vary greatly and the few pieces I worked with are by

no means the only things out there.  If you are looking for really

good German pieces to play, I highly suggest AW.  I have an Eb piece

from them to go with a German Effer that is just great. www.aw-

reeds.com





    
  

    
    





















      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:

> I just finished getting the measurements on my Fritz Wurlitzer with the
> inscription Erlbach i.v. and three inscribed pierced dots to the side of
> the lay.  I came up with the following measurements:  A. 40110; B. 10; C.
> 5; D. 3; E. tip opening 20 mm.  

Just to be clear, what set of feeler gages are you using?  What are their
thicknesses?  Also is "40110" looks strange and a 20 mm tip opening is too
large to make sense.  


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Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy.  I just had another clarinetist measure this piece and the measurements are exact.  It blows like a cannon!!  One look at it and you want to say man is that mouthpiece open.  HO!
Steve

----- Original Message ----
From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 6:35:45 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces















  


    
            

--- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@yahoo. com> wrote:



> I just finished getting the measurements on my Fritz Wurlitzer with the

> inscription Erlbach i.v. and three inscribed pierced dots to the side of

> the lay.  I came up with the following measurements:  A. 40110; B. 10; C.

> 5; D. 3; E. tip opening 20 mm.  



Just to be clear, what set of feeler gages are you using?  What are their

thicknesses?  Also is "40110" looks strange and a 20 mm tip opening is too

large to make sense.  



____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

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Steve,

What seems odd is that a shank bore is commonly around 15mm opening.

So a tip opening of 20mm seems unrealistic - I don't know how a reed 
can vibrate in that curve ? assuming there was enough height to the 
beak.

You should also be able to easily measure it with a generic ruler at 
that point.  How are you measuring it ?

Can you upload a pic, or a link ?

Stephen


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> 
wrote:
>
> Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy.  I just had 
another clarinetist measure this piece and the measurements are 
exact.  It blows like a cannon!!  One look at it and you want to say 
man is that mouthpiece open.  HO!
> Steve
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 6:35:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>             
> 
> --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@yahoo. com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > I just finished getting the measurements on my Fritz Wurlitzer 
with the
> 
> > inscription Erlbach i.v. and three inscribed pierced dots to the 
side of
> 
> > the lay.  I came up with the following measurements:  A. 40110; 
B. 10; C.
> 
> > 5; D. 3; E. tip opening 20 mm.  
> 
> 
> 
> Just to be clear, what set of feeler gages are you using?  What 
are their
> 
> thicknesses?  Also is "40110" looks strange and a 20 mm tip 
opening is too
> 
> large to make sense.  

--- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:

> Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy.  I just had another
> clarinetist measure this piece and the measurements are exact.  It blows
> like a cannon!!  One look at it and you want to say man is that
> mouthpiece open.  HO!
> Steve
> 

So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm.  Or maybe the facing length is 20
mm.

Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and what does "40110" represent.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

At 20mm, it would blow like a cannon because the tip opening would be bigger than the bore of a soprano clarinet.  Hmmm?  It's 10 times larger than the tip opening on my contrabass clarinet.  Hmmm?  Missing decimal point?

Mark

I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
est:
First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
mm.
So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
closed than a the more famous B40.
This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
still use it in their books as a short way of
rappresenting a piece.
Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet.it


--- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> ha scritto:

> 
> --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> I just had another
> > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> measurements are exact.  It blows
> > like a cannon!!  One look at it and you want to
> say man is that
> > mouthpiece open.  HO!
> > Steve
> > 
> 
> So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm.  Or maybe the
> facing length is 20
> mm.
> 
> Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> what does "40110" represent.
> 
> 
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
>
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> 



      ___________________________________ 
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

aka  -- the Brand System I believe

you will see this identification on alot of old pieces.  such as 
Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 
logo clarinet mpcs

still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.
we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in his 
mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.

thus the questions about his measuring ....

> I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
> very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
> of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
> est:
> First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
> in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
> The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
> mm.
> So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
> closed than a the more famous B40.
> This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
> sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
> still use it in their books as a short way of
> rappresenting a piece.
> Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet.it
> 
> 
> --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> ha scritto:
> 
> > 
> > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> > I just had another
> > > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> > measurements are exact.  It blows
> > > like a cannon!!  One look at it and you want to
> > say man is that
> > > mouthpiece open.  HO!
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > 
> > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm.  Or maybe the
> > facing length is 20
> > mm.
> > 
> > Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> > what does "40110" represent.
> > 
> > 
> >      
> >
> 
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> >
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>       ___________________________________ 
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova 
Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

40110 -- 110 would be 1.10 mm tip opening 
   
  1.1 mm / 25.4 mm/inch = .043" tip opening.
   
  20 mm / 25.4 mm/in = 0.787"  That is more than 3/4 of an inch.  
   
  Even if there is a missing decimal...
   
  2.0 mm / 25.4 = .078"  That is a good alto saxophone tip opening.  I have seen some soprano sax tip openings that large, but I have never seen a clarinet tip opening that large.
   
  Paul

Steve <stevesklar@...> wrote:
          aka -- the Brand System I believe

you will see this identification on alot of old pieces. such as 
Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 
logo clarinet mpcs

still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.
we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in his 
mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.

thus the questions about his measuring ....

> I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
> very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
> of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
> est:
> First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
> in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
> The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
> mm.
> So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
> closed than a the more famous B40.
> This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
> sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
> still use it in their books as a short way of
> rappresenting a piece.
> Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet.it
> 
> 
> --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> ha scritto:
> 
> > 
> > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> > I just had another
> > > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> > measurements are exact. It blows
> > > like a cannon!! One look at it and you want to
> > say man is that
> > > mouthpiece open. HO!
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > 
> > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm. Or maybe the
> > facing length is 20
> > mm.
> > 
> > Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> > what does "40110" represent.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
__________________________________________________________
_______________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? 
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> >
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________ 
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova 
Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Herb Blayman used to make a mouthpiece with a "b" facing which was his most open mouthpiece. H E R B were his facings, h being the most closed and b being the most open. He always told me this was for the European market especially Scandinavia as they liked open mouthpieces with very soft reeds.

Mike Vaccaro
www.MikeVaccaro.Com

It is not very difficult to understand "40110":

The first two figures, in this case 40, is the plane
lenght expressed in half of mm unit i.e. 20mm which is
a medium short plane lenght

The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
mm.
The only strange thing is the use of half of mm as
measure unit expecially for 1930 american people.
Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet.it





      ___________________________________ 
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make the tip opening .002.  I was using the new piece that was sold on ebay for measuring the tip that had the hamco base with dial on it.  I just realized it was in 1000's and not mm's.  Sorry folks.
Steven 

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:18:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces















  


    
            
40110 -- 110 would be 1.10 mm tip opening 
   
  1.1 mm / 25.4 mm/inch = .043" tip opening.
   
  20 mm / 25.4 mm/in = 0.787"  That is more than 3/4 of an inch.  
   
  Even if there is a missing decimal...
   
  2.0 mm / 25.4 = .078"  That is a good alto saxophone tip opening.  I have seen some soprano sax tip openings that large, but I have never seen a clarinet tip opening that large.
   
  Paul

Steve <stevesklar@yahoo. com> wrote:
      aka -- the Brand System I believe

you will see this identification on alot of old pieces. such as 
Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 
logo clarinet mpcs

still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.
we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in his 
mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.

thus the questions about his measuring ....

> I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
> very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
> of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
> est:
> First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
> in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
> The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
> mm.
> So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
> closed than a the more famous
 B40.
> This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
> sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
> still use it in their books as a short way of
> rappresenting a piece.
> Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet. it
> 
> 
> --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...> ha scritto:
> 
> > 
> > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> > I just had another
> > > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> > measurements are exact. It blows
> > > like a cannon!! One look at it and you want to
> > say man is that
> > > mouthpiece open. HO!
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > 
> > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm. Or maybe the
> > facing length is 20
> > mm.
> > 
> >
 Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> > what does "40110" represent.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
____________ ___
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? 
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> >
> http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
category=shopping
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ _____ 
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova 
Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs. yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
>






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
		http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax. com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com 
      
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

    
  

    
    





















      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

No, .002" is way too small, too.
   
  Place the gauge directly on a piece of glass or other flat surface.  Does it read zero?
   
  Note that you read the gauge BACKWARDS from zero as the probe drops down.
   
  Paul

Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:
              make the tip opening .002.  I was using the new piece that was sold on ebay for measuring the tip that had the hamco base with dial on it.  I just realized it was in 1000's and not mm's.  Sorry folks.
  Steven 

  ----- Original Message ----
From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:18:24 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces

    
  40110 -- 110 would be 1.10 mm tip opening 
   
  1.1 mm / 25.4 mm/inch = .043" tip opening.
   
  20 mm / 25.4 mm/in = 0.787"  That is more than 3/4 of an inch.  
   
  Even if there is a missing decimal...
   
  2.0 mm / 25.4 = .078"  That is a good alto saxophone tip opening.  I have seen some soprano sax tip openings that large, but I have never seen a clarinet tip opening that large.
   
  Paul

Steve <stevesklar@yahoo. com> wrote:
      aka -- the Brand System I believe

you will see this identification on alot of old pieces. such as 
Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 
logo clarinet mpcs

still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.
we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in his 
mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.

thus the questions about his measuring ....

> I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
> very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
> of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
> est:
> First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
> in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
> The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
> mm.
> So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
> closed than a the more famous B40.
> This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
> sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
> still use it in their books as a short way of
> rappresenting a piece.
> Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet. it
> 
> 
> --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...> ha scritto:
> 
> > 
> > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> > I just had another
> > > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> > measurements are exact. It blows
> > > like a cannon!! One look at it and you want to
> > say man is that
> > > mouthpiece open. HO!
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > 
> > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm. Or maybe the
> > facing length is 20
> > mm.
> > 
> > Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> > what does "40110" represent.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
____________ ___
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? 
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> >
> http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
category=shopping
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ _____ 
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova 
Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs. yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
>






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
http://www.saxgourm et.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax. com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com  
  
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  






  
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  

                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

First of all, I must say I admire Paul C and all the others who share 
their knowledge and tecnics with the rest of us and the patience they 
have (of which I have to little of possibly)
This said I feel the need to make a remark. 
If the way of measuring, dealing with materials and how to handle 
them has to be explained and I do mean the very, very basics of 
things (plus a basic common sense) then I feel a little dissapointed.

As an example the discussion below and somewhere was the question of 
filing down a rubber mouthpiece with either a metalfile or a woodfile.

I realise this will be very, very touchy and I also realise that 
there are a lot of absolute beginners (of which I'm one) but in my 
opinion if you have the intension of starting something new you also 
take the responsibility of reading and finding out the basic things 
before you ask things you easily can find out yourself.
I do not have the intension of pushing beginners aside. I will 
encourage them strongly to participate (and keep participating) in 
discussions.
Greetings, Fred vd S

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> 
wrote:
>
> No, .002" is way too small, too.
>    
>   Place the gauge directly on a piece of glass or other flat 
surface.  Does it read zero?
>    
>   Note that you read the gauge BACKWARDS from zero as the probe 
drops down.
>    
>   Paul
> 
> Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> wrote:
>               make the tip opening .002.  I was using the new piece 
that was sold on ebay for measuring the tip that had the hamco base 
with dial on it.  I just realized it was in 1000's and not mm's.  
Sorry folks.
>   Steven 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:18:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces
> 
>     
>   40110 -- 110 would be 1.10 mm tip opening 
>    
>   1.1 mm / 25.4 mm/inch = .043" tip opening.
>    
>   20 mm / 25.4 mm/in = 0.787"  That is more than 3/4 of an inch.  
>    
>   Even if there is a missing decimal...
>    
>   2.0 mm / 25.4 = .078"  That is a good alto saxophone tip 
opening.  I have seen some soprano sax tip openings that large, but I 
have never seen a clarinet tip opening that large.
>    
>   Paul
> 
> Steve <stevesklar@yahoo. com> wrote:
>       aka -- the Brand System I believe
> 
> you will see this identification on alot of old pieces. such as 
> Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 
> logo clarinet mpcs
> 
> still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.
> we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in 
his 
> mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.
> 
> thus the questions about his measuring ....
> 
> > I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a
> > very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient
> > of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id
> > est:
> > First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght
> > in half of a mm i.e. 20mm
> > The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of
> > mm.
> > So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more
> > closed than a the more famous B40.
> > This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and
> > sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold
> > still use it in their books as a short way of
> > rappresenting a piece.
> > Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet. it
> > 
> > 
> > --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...> ha scritto:
> > 
> > > 
> > > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 
> > > I just had another
> > > > clarinetist measure this piece and the
> > > measurements are exact. It blows
> > > > like a cannon!! One look at it and you want to
> > > say man is that
> > > > mouthpiece open. HO!
> > > > Steve
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm. Or maybe the
> > > facing length is 20
> > > mm.
> > > 
> > > Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and
> > > what does "40110" represent.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> > 
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> ____________ ___
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> > 
> > ____________ _________ _________ _____ 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :
> http://www.saxgourm et.com
> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
> http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952
> 
> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
> http://www.saxrax. com 
> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com  
>   
> ---------------------------------
>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with 
Yahoo! Search.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> ---------------------------------
>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with 
Yahoo! Search.  
> 
>                          
> 
> 
> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
> 		http://www.saxgourmet.com
> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
>            http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
> 
> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
> http://www.saxrax.com 
> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>

I am a beginner and trying to figure this out.  Thank you for you support.  It reads .20 in the red.  Which the maker said was read in 1000's.  I'm not much with math.  Did I read it incorrectly again it I should have said .02?  Steve


----- Original Message ----
From: fred.kort <fredkort@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:48:11 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces















  


    
            First of all, I must say I admire Paul C and all the others who share 

their knowledge and tecnics with the rest of us and the patience they 

have (of which I have to little of possibly)

This said I feel the need to make a remark. 

If the way of measuring, dealing with materials and how to handle 

them has to be explained and I do mean the very, very basics of 

things (plus a basic common sense) then I feel a little dissapointed.



As an example the discussion below and somewhere was the question of 

filing down a rubber mouthpiece with either a metalfile or a woodfile.



I realise this will be very, very touchy and I also realise that 

there are a lot of absolute beginners (of which I'm one) but in my 

opinion if you have the intension of starting something new you also 

take the responsibility of reading and finding out the basic things 

before you ask things you easily can find out yourself.

I do not have the intension of pushing beginners aside. I will 

encourage them strongly to participate (and keep participating) in 

discussions.

Greetings, Fred vd S



--- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, "Paul C." <tenorman1952@ ...> 

wrote:

>

> No, .002" is way too small, too.

>    

>   Place the gauge directly on a piece of glass or other flat 

surface.  Does it read zero?

>    

>   Note that you read the gauge BACKWARDS from zero as the probe 

drops down.

>    

>   Paul

> 

> Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> wrote:

>               make the tip opening .002.  I was using the new piece 

that was sold on ebay for measuring the tip that had the hamco base 

with dial on it.  I just realized it was in 1000's and not mm's.  

Sorry folks.

>   Steven 

> 

>   ----- Original Message ----

> From: Paul C. <tenorman1952@ ...>

> To: MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 4:18:24 PM

> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces

> 

>     

>   40110 -- 110 would be 1.10 mm tip opening 

>    

>   1.1 mm / 25.4 mm/inch = .043" tip opening.

>    

>   20 mm / 25.4 mm/in = 0.787"  That is more than 3/4 of an inch.  

>    

>   Even if there is a missing decimal...

>    

>   2.0 mm / 25.4 = .078"  That is a good alto saxophone tip 

opening.  I have seen some soprano sax tip openings that large, but I 

have never seen a clarinet tip opening that large.

>    

>   Paul

> 

> Steve <stevesklar@ yahoo. com> wrote:

>       aka -- the Brand System I believe

> 

> you will see this identification on alot of old pieces. such as 

> Selmer started using it approx 1938 and can be seen on their lower 

> logo clarinet mpcs

> 

> still doesn't explain the twice measured 20mm tip opening.

> we do believe he means the facing length as that flexing reed in 

his 

> mouth would tear up his tonsils with a 20mm tip opening.

> 

> thus the questions about his measuring ....

> 

> > I have an explanation of the figure "40110". This is a

> > very old method (about 1930 in USA) but very efficient

> > of identify the characteristics of a mouthpiece id

> > est:

> > First two figures in this case 40 is the plane lenght

> > in half of a mm i.e. 20mm

> > The last three figures 110 is tip aperture in cents of

> > mm.

> > So that piece it is equivalent to a Vandoren B44 more

> > closed than a the more famous B40.

> > This notation was expressly used by O'Brien and

> > sometimes also today clarinettist like Cecil Gold

> > still use it in their books as a short way of

> > rappresenting a piece.

> > Regards Manfredo Cavallini www.clarinet. it

> > 

> > 

> > --- Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@ ...> ha scritto:

> > 

> > > 

> > > --- Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> wrote:

> > > 

> > > > Sorry for not replying sooner but I've been busy. 

> > > I just had another

> > > > clarinetist measure this piece and the

> > > measurements are exact. It blows

> > > > like a cannon!! One look at it and you want to

> > > say man is that

> > > > mouthpiece open. HO!

> > > > Steve

> > > > 

> > > 

> > > So maybe the tip is 2.0 mm, not 20 mm. Or maybe the

> > > facing length is 20

> > > mm.

> > > 

> > > Again, what set of feeler gages are you using and

> > > what does "40110" represent.

> > > 

> > > 

> > > 

> > >

> > 

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> ____________ ___

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? 

> > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 

> > >

> > http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?

> category=shopping

> > > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > ____________ _________ _________ _____ 

> > L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova 

> Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs. yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html

> >

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :

> http://www.saxgourm et.com

> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:

> http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

> 

> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 

> http://www.saxrax. com 

> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax. com  

>   

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with 

Yahoo! Search.  

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>   

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

>   Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with 

Yahoo! Search.  

> 

>                          

> 

> 

> Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet" :

> 		http://www.saxgourm et.com

> Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:

>            http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ tenorman1952

> 

> Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 

> http://www.saxrax. com 

> For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

>        

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

>





    
  

    
    





















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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> 
wrote:
>
> I am a beginner and trying to figure this out.  Thank you for you 
support.  It reads .20 in the red.  Which the maker said was read in 
1000's.  I'm not much with math.  Did I read it incorrectly again it 
I should have said .02?  Steve


Even 0.02 sounds too small for a clarinet mouthpiece.  Clarinet tip 
openings typically run from about .039" (1.0 mm) to .047" (1.2 mm).  
Of course, there are a few that are smaller, and Jazz/Dixieland 
players that may play as large as .055" (1.4 mm) or larger.  The 
clue is in the 40110 code on the piece.  40 is the facing length in 
half mm's, so the facing length is 20 mm's.  The 110 indicated 1.10 
mm tip opening, or .043".

I think the problem you are having is that dial indicators read 
directly when the probe is pushed up into the gauge.  They can be 
adjusted for a zero point by placing the gauge and fixture on a flat 
surface (thick glass, machined metal surface, etc), and drop below 
that to -.200".

When the gauge fixture is placed against the table of the mouthpiece 
(where the reed rests), the probe placed to touch in the middle of 
the tip rail, the gauge reads below that zero point (the plane of 
the mouthpiece's table).  The gauge must be read in reverse, 
counting back from zero.

So, what must be done is that you place your gauge and fixture (or 
holder) on a flat surface, and move the gauge up and down in the 
fixture until it reads zero with the probe touching the flat 
surface.  As you lift the gauge/fixture from the surface, the probe 
will drop down and give a negative reading, dropping as far as -
.200".

Why .200" and not .100"?  Because you will not find any mouthpiece 
with as much as .200" tip opening, even bari and bass sax.  But you 
will find many tenor, bari, and bass sax mouthpieces larger 
than .100".

Paul C.

Thanks for your reply.  I do have the device set up to read zero on a flat glass.  Now, when I place it directly on the mouthpiece tip it reads a red number of 20.  With it set to zero how can I communicate that number correctly so it would be understood by all. The maker of the device said that I should use the read number and it is read in thousands.  I think you are about to teach me something and I greatly appreciate it.  Steven

----- Original Message ----
From: tenorman1952 <tenorman1952@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:00:15 PM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: German Clarinet Mouthpieces - reading gauges















  


    
            --- In MouthpieceWork@ yahoogroups. com, Steven Lyons <steviewah1@ ...> 

wrote:

>

> I am a beginner and trying to figure this out.  Thank you for you 

support.  It reads .20 in the red.  Which the maker said was read in 

1000's.  I'm not much with math.  Did I read it incorrectly again it 

I should have said .02?  Steve



Even 0.02 sounds too small for a clarinet mouthpiece.  Clarinet tip 

openings typically run from about .039" (1.0 mm) to .047" (1.2 mm).  

Of course, there are a few that are smaller, and Jazz/Dixieland 

players that may play as large as .055" (1.4 mm) or larger.  The 

clue is in the 40110 code on the piece.  40 is the facing length in 

half mm's, so the facing length is 20 mm's.  The 110 indicated 1.10 

mm tip opening, or .043".



I think the problem you are having is that dial indicators read 

directly when the probe is pushed up into the gauge.  They can be 

adjusted for a zero point by placing the gauge and fixture on a flat 

surface (thick glass, machined metal surface, etc), and drop below 

that to -.200".



When the gauge fixture is placed against the table of the mouthpiece 

(where the reed rests), the probe placed to touch in the middle of 

the tip rail, the gauge reads below that zero point (the plane of 

the mouthpiece's table).  The gauge must be read in reverse, 

counting back from zero.



So, what must be done is that you place your gauge and fixture (or 

holder) on a flat surface, and move the gauge up and down in the 

fixture until it reads zero with the probe touching the flat 

surface.  As you lift the gauge/fixture from the surface, the probe 

will drop down and give a negative reading, dropping as far as -

..200".



Why .200" and not .100"?  Because you will not find any mouthpiece 

with as much as .200" tip opening, even bari and bass sax.  But you 

will find many tenor, bari, and bass sax mouthpieces larger 

than .100".



Paul C.





    
  

    
    





















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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Steven Lyons <steviewah1@...> 
wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply.  I do have the device set up to read zero on a 
flat glass.  Now, when I place it directly on the mouthpiece tip it 
reads a red number of 20.  With it set to zero how can I communicate 
that number correctly so it would be understood by all. The maker of 
the device said that I should use the read number and it is read in 
thousands.  I think you are about to teach me something and I greatly 
appreciate it.  Steven
> 
I'll have to see your gauge.

Paul

A picture of your gage might help us sort things out.  Based on the maker's
info, "20" should be .020".  But this is 1/2 of a normal tip opening on
clarinet.

Try placing your gage on flat glass so it reads zero.  Then slip in some
feeler gages under the probe to see if you get the same reading on your
dial gage.


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