Hi everyone, 

I'm a recent member of this group for a few days now. I am a graduate 
student of clarinet in Los Angeles and developed a curiosity for 
refacing mouthpieces after contact with a few local mouthpiece makers 
in the area.  I've studied much of the content of this site for days 
now, and have an idea of how to get started in the art.  There are a 
few things that puzzle me however… 

1. It becomes quite clear that facing length and curve are only two 
of many factors that affect the overall sound and feel of a 
mouthpiece.  How much work is done on the interior (bore, baffle, 
etc.) of the mouthpiece? Are mouthpiece makers generally "picky" over 
the interior measurements as they adjust the interior, and how is the 
interior gauged for accuracy when adjusting?  

2. When dealing with a reputable blank, such as a Zinner, is the 
baffle simply filed to shape or is some material usually added and 
hardened before filing the baffle to shape?  A mouthpiece I'm 
currently playing that mimics the Kaspar has a concave baffle shape.  
What I'm not sure about is if the maker simply filed down the blank 
or if he applied some hardening material prior to filing.  I'm mostly 
confused in this area.  I hope this question makes sense.  

3. What specific tools can be used to shape the baffle (files, and 
file shapes, etc.).  How coarse or fine do these tools need to be, 
and where do I find them?  

4. Do many mouthpiece makers, mainly clarinet mouthpieces (since 
that's what I'm concentrated on.), ever concern themselves with 
shaping the bore?  If so, what tools are used, how is a bore 
measured, and where do I find these tools?  

Thanks, 
JC

In the files folder you will find a list of tools, where to obtain, etc.  Unfortunately, the Winslow kit from Madison Enterprises is no longer available, and not likely to be again anytime in the future.
   
  For other tools, go to www.micromark.com and order their catalog.  It is free.  While MicroMark is mostly oriented to model builders, specifically model railroad, there are many tools there that are very useful to the mouthpiece maker/refacer.  The tools are of good quality, or at least, good for what we would do, and moderately priced.
   
  Searching the site, especially for tools you don't even know they have, is cumbersome at best.  Order the catalog.
   
  I'll email you some material that will be helpful to you.
   
  Paul Coats
   
   
   
  

jonathanclarinet <Musikboi83@...> wrote:
          Hi everyone, 

I'm a recent member of this group for a few days now. I am a graduate 
student of clarinet in Los Angeles and developed a curiosity for 
refacing mouthpieces after contact with a few local mouthpiece makers 
in the area. I've studied much of the content of this site for days 
now, and have an idea of how to get started in the art. There are a 
few things that puzzle me however� 

1. It becomes quite clear that facing length and curve are only two 
of many factors that affect the overall sound and feel of a 
mouthpiece. How much work is done on the interior (bore, baffle, 
etc.) of the mouthpiece? Are mouthpiece makers generally "picky" over 
the interior measurements as they adjust the interior, and how is the 
interior gauged for accuracy when adjusting? 

2. When dealing with a reputable blank, such as a Zinner, is the 
baffle simply filed to shape or is some material usually added and 
hardened before filing the baffle to shape? A mouthpiece I'm 
currently playing that mimics the Kaspar has a concave baffle shape. 
What I'm not sure about is if the maker simply filed down the blank 
or if he applied some hardening material prior to filing. I'm mostly 
confused in this area. I hope this question makes sense. 

3. What specific tools can be used to shape the baffle (files, and 
file shapes, etc.). How coarse or fine do these tools need to be, 
and where do I find them? 

4. Do many mouthpiece makers, mainly clarinet mouthpieces (since 
that's what I'm concentrated on.), ever concern themselves with 
shaping the bore? If so, what tools are used, how is a bore 
measured, and where do I find these tools? 

Thanks, 
JC



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by.    Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. 

--- jonathanclarinet <Musikboi83@...> wrote:

These are really good questions Jon.  I was hoping a clarinet guru would
chime in with some answers.  After you become one you can give us your
opinions.  I've only dabbled with clarinet mouthpieces.  A lot of what I
know about sax mouthpieces does not apply as well to clarinet mouthpieces.

> 
> 1. It becomes quite clear that facing length and curve are only two 
> of many factors that affect the overall sound and feel of a 
> mouthpiece.  How much work is done on the interior (bore, baffle, 
> etc.) of the mouthpiece? Are mouthpiece makers generally "picky" over 
> the interior measurements as they adjust the interior, and how is the 
> interior gauged for accuracy when adjusting?  

If you are a refacer, I think you are less picky about the interior shapes
conforming to a target.  You are just trying to make a good mouthpiece.  A
mouthpiece maker may have several different models.  Several may be made
from the same blank.  So they are more concerned with arriving at a
consistent interior design so that model "X" will similar to other ones
made in the past.  One way to arrive at a consistent baffle profile is to
make yourself a sheetmetal tool with the target profile filed into it.  I
think I saw a photo of Ralph Morgan's workbench with a few of these profile
gages laying on it.  

You can take some spot checks of the interior using telescoping bore gages.
 These are spring loaded "T" shaped tools.  You lock them at the inside
dimention, pull them out and measure the setting with calipers.  There are
always a few for sale on eBay.  

> 
> 2. When dealing with a reputable blank, such as a Zinner, is the 
> baffle simply filed to shape or is some material usually added and 
> hardened before filing the baffle to shape?  A mouthpiece I'm 
> currently playing that mimics the Kaspar has a concave baffle shape.  
> What I'm not sure about is if the maker simply filed down the blank 
> or if he applied some hardening material prior to filing.  I'm mostly 
> confused in this area.  I hope this question makes sense.

I do not think it is common practice to add material to a clarinet blank. 
RPC and Lamberson have several sax MP models where they add epoxy.
  
> 
> 3. What specific tools can be used to shape the baffle (files, and 
> file shapes, etc.).  How coarse or fine do these tools need to be, 
> and where do I find them?  

Micro-Mark is a good source for inexpensive files for hard rubber
mouthpieces.  Fine files tend to clog up too easily.  So you will need some
Medium and Medium Coarse files and a file card.  I have not found medium
Riffler files.  These are curved files.  I use extra coarse and medium fine
ones.  There are some other file sources in the Links area of the Yahoo MP
Work site.

You can also make some tools using some kind of stick with sand papers. 
You can wrap sandpaper around files.  I still do this occasionally but find
my custom-made sanding sticks a better tool.  There are some pictures of
them on my site in the sequence of photos.  You can also see what file
shapes I use.

> 
> 4. Do many mouthpiece makers, mainly clarinet mouthpieces (since 
> that's what I'm concentrated on.), ever concern themselves with 
> shaping the bore?  If so, what tools are used, how is a bore 
> measured, and where do I find these tools?

I doubt they spend much time on the bore.  The blank just needs to be on
spec.  A machinist would use a reamer to make a precise bore.  A refacer
can get away with a small sanding drum on a high speed rotary tool
(Dremel), and measuring often with a set of calipers.  

    2925 Crane St., Vineland, NJ 08361 
Paypal to MojoMouthpieceWork@... 
Check out: http://www.MojoMouthpieceWork.com





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

Contour gauge from MicroMark
   
  http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=14412
   
  Paul

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
          --- jonathanclarinet <Musikboi83@...> wrote:

These are really good questions Jon. I was hoping a clarinet guru would
chime in with some answers. After you become one you can give us your
opinions. I've only dabbled with clarinet mouthpieces. A lot of what I
know about sax mouthpieces does not apply as well to clarinet mouthpieces.

> 
> 1. It becomes quite clear that facing length and curve are only two 
> of many factors that affect the overall sound and feel of a 
> mouthpiece. How much work is done on the interior (bore, baffle, 
> etc.) of the mouthpiece? Are mouthpiece makers generally "picky" over 
> the interior measurements as they adjust the interior, and how is the 
> interior gauged for accuracy when adjusting? 

If you are a refacer, I think you are less picky about the interior shapes
conforming to a target. You are just trying to make a good mouthpiece. A
mouthpiece maker may have several different models. Several may be made
from the same blank. So they are more concerned with arriving at a
consistent interior design so that model "X" will similar to other ones
made in the past. One way to arrive at a consistent baffle profile is to
make yourself a sheetmetal tool with the target profile filed into it. I
think I saw a photo of Ralph Morgan's workbench with a few of these profile
gages laying on it. 

You can take some spot checks of the interior using telescoping bore gages.
These are spring loaded "T" shaped tools. You lock them at the inside
dimention, pull them out and measure the setting with calipers. There are
always a few for sale on eBay. 

> 
> 2. When dealing with a reputable blank, such as a Zinner, is the 
> baffle simply filed to shape or is some material usually added and 
> hardened before filing the baffle to shape? A mouthpiece I'm 
> currently playing that mimics the Kaspar has a concave baffle shape. 
> What I'm not sure about is if the maker simply filed down the blank 
> or if he applied some hardening material prior to filing. I'm mostly 
> confused in this area. I hope this question makes sense.

I do not think it is common practice to add material to a clarinet blank. 
RPC and Lamberson have several sax MP models where they add epoxy.

> 
> 3. What specific tools can be used to shape the baffle (files, and 
> file shapes, etc.). How coarse or fine do these tools need to be, 
> and where do I find them? 

Micro-Mark is a good source for inexpensive files for hard rubber
mouthpieces. Fine files tend to clog up too easily. So you will need some
Medium and Medium Coarse files and a file card. I have not found medium
Riffler files. These are curved files. I use extra coarse and medium fine
ones. There are some other file sources in the Links area of the Yahoo MP
Work site.

You can also make some tools using some kind of stick with sand papers. 
You can wrap sandpaper around files. I still do this occasionally but find
my custom-made sanding sticks a better tool. There are some pictures of
them on my site in the sequence of photos. You can also see what file
shapes I use.

> 
> 4. Do many mouthpiece makers, mainly clarinet mouthpieces (since 
> that's what I'm concentrated on.), ever concern themselves with 
> shaping the bore? If so, what tools are used, how is a bore 
> measured, and where do I find these tools?

I doubt they spend much time on the bore. The blank just needs to be on
spec. A machinist would use a reamer to make a precise bore. A refacer
can get away with a small sanding drum on a high speed rotary tool
(Dremel), and measuring often with a set of calipers. 

2925 Crane St., Vineland, NJ 08361 
Paypal to MojoMouthpieceWork@... 
Check out: http://www.MojoMouthpieceWork.com

__________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV.  Watch previews, get listings, and more!

Hello,

 

Sorry, I meant to answer, but got busy and forgot.  

 

I do work with only clarinet mouthpieces and will be glad to answer any
questions that you may have.  

 

It is very difficult to make a generalization and say that “I always do x”,
because each mouthpiece and each player that comes to me for some work is
different, so you use your intuitiveness to customize each mouthpiece.  Only
by experimenting can one understand what action produces what result.  This
is unfortunate, in regards to the Zinner blanks, because they are so
expensive.  They are cost prohibitive to experiment with.  I have offered on
this forum before some clarinet blanks that I produced but decided not to go
to market with because they were not quite what I wanted to put my brand
name on.  I still have a lot of them and would be glad to sell them cheaply
as experimentation blanks.

 

I have changed bore sizes on my mouthpieces with a hand reamer, but I am
actually very happy with my blank, so I don’t do a lot of interior work on
them.  I do a lot of interior work when I work with Zinners, however.  Most
of the work I do on the Zinners is in the baffle region and there I take
quite a lot of material away.  I don’t measure this, but just play test it
as I go along until it feels and sounds right.  After having done this work
for several years, I can hear what a player is producing and make a pretty
good guess as to what to change to make the mouthpiece play better for this
individual.  I have never added material to the baffle area of a mouthpiece.

 

When I first got started, in addition to studying and asking questions of
every mouthpiece person that I could, I made several mouthpieces for my
friends and had them give me feedback.  My advantage, however, is that I was
working with the same blank every time—the Gennusa, so I could learn what
work made what affect.  You could do a variation of what I did by having
your friends bring some bad mouthpieces that they have and do some work for
them.  You can only make the mouthpieces better, I would think.  With the
different mouthpieces coming to you in this scenario, you do have to keep in
mind that one action that produces one result may not hold true for the next
mouthpiece.

 

Best of luck and please feel free to contact me if you have specific
questions.

 

HYPERLINK "mailto:clarinet@..."clarinet@redwinejazz.com

 

Ben Redwine

 

 

 

 

Ben & Leslie Redwine

1642 Cliff Drive

Edgewater, MD 21037

410-798-8251

HYPERLINK "http://www.redwinejazz.com"www.redwinejazz.com





 

 


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