Yup, I should have read Dan T's fine post and yours,  gregweir, and admit to 
viewing the suggestions from a clarinetist's  perspective.  Sax mps Do produce 
a different [conical bore] problem  due to the neck's tuning position, cls 
usually only tune at the barrel UJ  interface. So, why not make  "water-fill" 
measurements including the  [tuned] sax neck, sim., cl barrel [some of ours are  
also tapered!].  Such {IMHO} would only be meaningfull for one  inst. to 
compare/correlate mp "influence" on tonality, which also is difficult  to measure 
! Just more thots from an old Chem Engr.  Don



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

What exactly do you plan to do with your chamber volume measurements? The fly in the ointment in trying to correlate chamber volume with any specific characteristic of mpc performance is that it is completely interactive with a zillion other factors, including placement in the mouthpiece, throat
 length and diameter, baffle geometry and especially transition between baffle and chamber, not to mention chamber shape itself. 
   
  Toby

dberger19@... wrote:
            Yup, I should have read Dan T's fine post and yours, gregweir, and admit to viewing the suggestions from a clarinetist's perspective.  Sax mps Do produce a different [conical bore] problem due to the neck's tuning position, cls usually only tune at the barrel UJ interface. So, why not
 make  "water-fill" measurements including the [tuned] sax neck, sim., cl barrel [some of ours are also tapered!].  Such {IMHO} would only be meaningfull for one inst. to compare/correlate mp "influence" on tonality, which also is difficult to measure ! Just more thots from an old Chem Engr. Don



    
---------------------------------
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The original question from gwindplayer is actually how do you measure
chamber geometry?  The 3D aspects of this is very difficult to capture. 

There was a fellow in Europe somewhere who had a site showing several
inside profiles of Runyons along the mouthpiece centerline.  I may have a
Link to it on the MPWork Group site.  It looked like he sawed the
mouthpieces in half.   I Emailed him a few years ago.  He said he did not
destroy the mouthpieces.  He made up some kind of XY rig to get a probe
inside the chamber and measure the displacement of the other end of the
probe outside of the chamber.  He would not provide a sketch or photo.

There are fancy high cost systems that can measure geometry profiles and
plot them out.  They use LVDT probes and are computer controlled.  Kind of
CNC in reverse.  Bigger machine shops often have them.


 
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Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
          The original question from gwindplayer is actually how do you measure
chamber geometry? The 3D aspects of this is very difficult to capture. 

There was a fellow in Europe somewhere who had a site showing several
inside profiles of Runyons along the mouthpiece centerline. I may have a
Link to it on the MPWork Group site. It looked like he sawed the
mouthpieces in half. I Emailed him a few years ago. He said he did not
destroy the mouthpieces. He made up some kind of XY rig to get a probe
inside the chamber and measure the displacement of the other end of the
probe outside of the chamber. He would not provide a sketch or photo.

There are fancy high cost systems that can measure geometry profiles and
plot them out. They use LVDT probes and are computer controlled. Kind of
CNC in reverse. Bigger machine shops often have them.

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When I was in the automotive industry we had computer controlled 
devices that could take the inside and outside measurement of even 
small items like mouthpieces, and then duplicate those fairly quickly 
using another material using stereolithography

But, not being in the auto industry anymore I don't have access to 
that stuff.  Plus saying it all was expensive would be an 
understatement.

You can also get inside dimensions by using gauges built for checking 
the inside of handguns and rifle chamber & barrels.  Though those cost 
$500-$1000 each from the ones i've seen. If I can find a link I'll 
post it.

Other than that I would look to an old hobby of mine, jewelry making.  
making internal molds which should work quite effectively for the 
internal of mouthpieces - if i can only remember how ....

Steve Sklar

"There are fancy high cost systems that can measure geometry profiles and
plot them out. They use LVDT probes and are computer controlled. Kind of
CNC in reverse. Bigger machine shops often have them."
   
  I just completed the design of a bass clarinet mouthpiece using a similar technique.  Starting with a mouthpiece that I really liked, I had it scanned with a laser to learn the dimensions and geometry of the mouthpiece.  The internals created line-of-sight issues that made it difficult to get an accurate read with the laser so we made a bore and chamber plug with latex and then scanned the plugs and "grafted" so-to-speak that digital information into our solid model.  The results are truly an accurate copy.  It reproduces every little detail (good and bad) that is represented on the original control mouthpiece.
   
  After the computer rendered solid model was complete, using Solidworks one can retrieve volumes, or any other dimension at ones fingertips.  Easily a mouthpiece cross section can be viewed or manipulated to really see the mouthpiece inside out.  Additionally I can easily alter the solid model to represent my own ideals and potential design improvements.   
   
  But viewing is only one small piece of the equation because there are so many things that react to one another.  So in practice it is very important to make prototypes and experience the mouthpiece.  To play it is a much better assesment than to measure it or to see it on the computer.  The measurements however are a great way to help keep me on track, with confidence and consistancy.  As we all know, it is very easy to go down a slippery path when refacing mouthpieces and for me, the measurements help keep me on firm-ground.
   
  Brad Behn
  www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
   
   
  
Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
          The original question from gwindplayer is actually how do you measure
chamber geometry? The 3D aspects of this is very difficult to capture. 

There was a fellow in Europe somewhere who had a site showing several
inside profiles of Runyons along the mouthpiece centerline. I may have a
Link to it on the MPWork Group site. It looked like he sawed the
mouthpieces in half. I Emailed him a few years ago. He said he did not
destroy the mouthpieces. He made up some kind of XY rig to get a probe
inside the chamber and measure the displacement of the other end of the
probe outside of the chamber. He would not provide a sketch or photo.

There are fancy high cost systems that can measure geometry profiles and
plot them out. They use LVDT probes and are computer controlled. Kind of
CNC in reverse. Bigger machine shops often have them.

__________________________________________________________
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Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
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