There doesn't seem to be an effective way to measure a chamber size. 
Water displacement transferred to a beaker doesn't help with 
dimensions.  Here is a thought or question for the engineers among the 
group. Would it be possible to develop an expanding mandrel with a 
gauge to give an actual diameter of a mouthpiece chamber?

It all depends on where it tunes up on the neckpipe.  
   
  Paul

gwindplayer <gregwier@...> wrote:
          There doesn't seem to be an effective way to measure a chamber size. 
Water displacement transferred to a beaker doesn't help with 
dimensions. Here is a thought or question for the engineers among the 
group. Would it be possible to develop an expanding mandrel with a 
gauge to give an actual diameter of a mouthpiece chamber?



         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
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Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
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There are I.D. micrometers, like:

http://www.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/products/naikei/Inside%20diameter.pdf

Not sure if there is something easy/practical to use.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "gwindplayer" <gregwier@...> 
wrote:
>
> There doesn't seem to be an effective way to measure a chamber size. 
> Water displacement transferred to a beaker doesn't help with 
> dimensions.  Here is a thought or question for the engineers among the 
> group. Would it be possible to develop an expanding mandrel with a 
> gauge to give an actual diameter of a mouthpiece chamber?
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I suppose you could measure the chamber volume by:  
1a. closing the window with tape  
1b. filling the mouthpiece with water  
1c. measuring the volume of that water in a graduated cylinder  
2a. marking the neck cork at the point where the mouthpiece is in tune  
2b. removing the mouthpiece and measuring how far that "tune-up" point is from
the end of the neck  
2c. measuring the inner diameter of the mouthpiece shank  
2d. calculating how much of the original measured volume is merely extra
"shank-on-cork" length (pi * (radius squared))  
2e. subtracting the extra volume from the total measured.  
  
Would it be accurate enough to tell us anything useful (with all these steps
involving small amounts of error adding up....)? Would it be worth the effort
(relative intonation of the different registers seems to tell us whether the
chamber is too small, too large, or within workable limits for a player)?
Isn't there a town in England called Shank-on-Cork?  
  
Dan T.  
  
  
Paul C. wrote:

> It all depends on where it tunes up on the neckpipe.
>
> Paul  
>  
>  **_gwindplayer com>_** wrote:
>

>> There doesn't seem to be an effective way to measure a chamber size.  
>  Water displacement transferred to a beaker doesn't help with  
>  dimensions. Here is a thought or question for the engineers among the  
>  group. Would it be possible to develop an expanding mandrel with a  
>  gauge to give an actual diameter of a mouthpiece chamber?  
>  
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>  Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":  
>  et.com  
>  Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:  
>  .yahoo.com/tenorman1952  
>  
>  Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from  
>  .com  
>  For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax.com
>
> * * *
>
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?  
>  Check out fitting [ gifts for
> grads](http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evtH249/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz)
> at Yahoo! Search.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>     * * *
>  
>      No virus found in this incoming message.
>     Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
> 269.8.0/821 -
>     Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM

I have done measurements described by Dan.  I think they are fairly
accurate.  I have not found them useful enough to do routinely.  

I use a telescoping bore gauge to get inside width measurements.  It is a
T-shaped device with the top of the T spring loaded. A twist of the handle
end locks the T in place.  You then wiggle it out and measure the T with
your calipers.  I take a spot check one inch away from the tip.  Not real
useful either.  But you can see the diif between various Links.  

I also use it to measure the cheek width of Guardalas.  There is a lot of
variation among the handmade ones.

--- Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...> wrote:
                
I suppose you could measure the chamber volume by:
1a. closing the window with tape
1b. filling the mouthpiece with water
1c. measuring the volume of that water in a graduated cylinder
2a. marking the neck cork at the point where the mouthpiece is in tune
2b. removing the mouthpiece and measuring how far that "tune-up" pointis
from the end of the neck
2c. measuring the inner diameter of the mouthpiece shank
2d. calculating how much of the original measured volume is merelyextra
"shank-on-cork" length (pi * (radius squared))
2e. subtracting the extra volume from the total measured.



       
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Such a gauge exists--it was developed in Japan for measuring the inside of shakuhachi bores. However it is quite expensive (~500 USD) and much longer than it needs to be for measuing short little mpcs. 
   
  The other problem you face is that mpcs are not cylindrical, so it would take lots of measurements and a lot of calculus to effectively map cross-sectional volume along the length of the mpc, if that is indeed what you are after. And, of course, different cross-sectional shapes engender
 different responses even at the same volume, so things get quite complex, to say the least...
   
  Toby

gwindplayer <gregwier@...> wrote:
          There doesn't seem to be an effective way to measure a chamber size. 
Water displacement transferred to a beaker doesn't help with 
dimensions. Here is a thought or question for the engineers among the 
group. Would it be possible to develop an expanding mandrel with a 
gauge to give an actual diameter of a mouthpiece chamber?



         
 

I haven't tried it YET, but I can't see why the Water-fill  measurement 
method wouldn't work, using a graduated  glass cylinder  [laboratory type] for 
measuring, about 20-30 cc's? Some mps, clarinet in  [my] partic., are of slightly 
differing lengths, so perhaps a "less than full"  technique would be better. I 
guess I should read ALL of the responses here, but  its my AM thots ! Don



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

>
> I haven't tried it YET, but I can't see why the Water-fill  
measurement 
> method wouldn't work, using a graduated  glass cylinder  
[laboratory type] for 
> measuring, about 20-30 cc's? Some mps, clarinet in  [my] partic., 
are of slightly 
> differing lengths, so perhaps a "less than full"  technique would 
be better. I 
> guess I should read ALL of the responses here, but  its my AM 
thots ! Don
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************** See what's free at 
http://www.aol.com.
>
My intent is to get an actual physical reading. Mojo's T tool would 
do that, but as one suggested the tapering of the chamber makes it 
more complicated.  Perhaps using a liquid or gel that sets to rubber 
and pushing it out the neck receiver of the mouthpiece would give me 
something to measure exactly.  Any thoughts on which product would do 
that without risking a permanant fixture in the model mouthpiece. 

THANKS>>>>>>>>>>>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------There are lots of mold-making products out there. Sculptors and movie/theater
makeup and prop people use a wide variety of this type of stuff - esp. latex
and silicone versions. I'm sure the material properties range from rock-solid
to bendy-rubbery. A Google search for "latex casting" or "mold making" should
turn up some. I found this hobbyist moldmaking forum also (don't know what's
on it):  
  
  
  
  
Dan T  
  
  
gwindplayer wrote:

> >  
>  > I haven't tried it YET, but I can't see why the Water-fill  
>  measurement  
>  > method wouldn't work, using a graduated glass cylinder  
>  [laboratory type] for  
>  > measuring, about 20-30 cc's? Some mps, clarinet in [my] partic.,  
>  are of slightly  
>  > differing lengths, so perhaps a "less than full" technique would  
>  be better. I  
>  > guess I should read ALL of the responses here, but its my AM  
>  thots ! Don  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  
>  > ************************************** See what's free at  
>  [http://www.aol.com.](http://www.aol.com.)  
>  >  
>  My intent is to get an actual physical reading. Mojo's T tool would  
>  do that, but as one suggested the tapering of the chamber makes it  
>  more complicated. Perhaps using a liquid or gel that sets to rubber  
>  and pushing it out the neck receiver of the mouthpiece would give me  
>  something to measure exactly. Any thoughts on which product would do  
>  that without risking a permanant fixture in the model mouthpiece.  
>  
>  THANKS>>>>>>>>>>>  
>  
>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>     * * *
>  
>      No virus found in this incoming message.
>     Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
> 269.8.1/822 -
>     Release Date: 5/28/2007 11:40 AM