As many of you know, I have business interests in various parts of Asia. For
several years, I have been seeking a source of quality saxophone mouthpieces
there, and have met with only limited success.
 
In the last month, I have been contacted by several Asian vendors and have
received many samples. Some are of marginal quality (good for "practice
blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided samples that were of
amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything available anywhere at any
price. The tables were flat and the facings accurate. The materials used and
workmanship exhibited were of the very highest quality. They played great
right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
 
Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said perfect) copies of many well
known brands. They were indistinguishable from the originals except that
they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were particularly impressive.
 
It's about to become a different world. Some of our friends across the Great
Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I salute them. Their facing
work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right up there with the
offerings from some of the very finest makers. The plating looks good. Even
the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of the original designs
were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see a lot of good quality
mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and be thankful that the
options for players are expanding. The last 30 days have been a real eye
opener for me.
 

 <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/> 

READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG  <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/

 

The Music Business is a cruel and  shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and  pimps run free and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."    Hunter S. Thompson



                   


Steve  Goodson 
see our TERMS OF SERVICE  at: 
http://saxgourmet.com/business.html 

Confidentiality Statement "The information contained in this electronic
message is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use
of the owner of the email address listed as the recipient of this message.
If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution,  forwarding, or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited." 


 

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

Three cheers for the global economy. where the lowest price is more important than a reasonable standard of living. I for one, would rather pay more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen

 STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:                                        
As many of you know, I have business interests in various parts of Asia.  For several years, I have been seeking a source of quality saxophone mouthpieces  there, and have met with only limited success.
  
 In the last month, I have been contacted by several Asian vendors and  have received many samples. Some are of marginal quality (good for "practice  blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided samples that were of amazing  quality, absolutely equal to anything available anywhere at any price. The  tables were flat and the facings accurate. The materials used and workmanship  exhibited were of the very highest quality. They played great right out of the  box, with no tweaking necessary.
  
 Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said perfect) copies of many  well known brands. They were indistinguishable from the originals except that  they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were particularly  impressive.
  
 It's about to become a different world. Some of our friends across the  Great Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I salute them. Their  facing work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right up there with the  offerings from some of the very finest makers. The plating looks good. Even the  caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of the original designs were  outstanding in their performance. Expect to see a lot of good quality  mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and be thankful that the options  for players are expanding. The last 30 days have been a real eye opener for  me.
  
 
 
 READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/
  
 The Music Business is a cruel and  shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and  pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."     Hunter S. Thompson
 
                    
 
Steve  Goodson 
see our TERMS OF SERVICE   at: 
http://saxgourmet.com/business.html  
 Confidentiality Statement  "The information contained  in this electronic message is privileged and confidential information intended  only for the use of the owner of the email address listed as the recipient of  this message. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent  responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are  hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution,   forwarding, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited."  

  
 
     
                       


No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
       
---------------------------------
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail  

In the musical instrument business, very few products are actually patented.
That's reality. Another reality is it's quite easy to get around most
patents. Yet another reality is that the cost of defending a patent overseas
is high, and the chance of a successful defense is slim.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tom Tapscott
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:00 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces



So, does this mean trademakrs, patents, etc. are
pretty much out the window in the global economy? Just
curious, because I have an acquaintance whose designs
& name were used without permission or compensation.
Sounds much like what's been happening in the
copyright arena for some time.

--- STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox. <mailto:saxgourmet%40cox.net> net> wrote:

> 
> As many of you know, I have business interests in
> various parts of Asia. For
> several years, I have been seeking a source of
> quality saxophone mouthpieces
> there, and have met with only limited success.
> 
> In the last month, I have been contacted by several
> Asian vendors and have
> received many samples. Some are of marginal quality
> (good for "practice
> blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided
> samples that were of
> amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything
> available anywhere at any
> price. The tables were flat and the facings
> accurate. The materials used and
> workmanship exhibited were of the very highest
> quality. They played great
> right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
> 
> Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said
> perfect) copies of many well
> known brands. They were indistinguishable from the
> originals except that
> they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were
> particularly impressive.
> 
> It's about to become a different world. Some of our
> friends across the Great
> Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I
> salute them. Their facing
> work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right
> up there with the
> offerings from some of the very finest makers. The
> plating looks good. Even
> the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of
> the original designs
> were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see
> a lot of good quality
> mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and
> be thankful that the
> options for players are expanding. The last 30 days
> have been a real eye
> opener for me.
> 
> 
> <http://www.nationof <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/>
music.com/ecommerce/> 
> 
> READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG 
> <http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good
> men die like dogs.
> There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Goodson 
> see our TERMS OF SERVICE at: 
> http://saxgourmet. <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html> com/business.html

> 
> Confidentiality Statement "The information contained
> in this electronic
> message is privileged and confidential information
> intended only for the use
> of the owner of the email address listed as the
> recipient of this message.
> If you are not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, dissemination,
> distribution, forwarding, or
> copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited." 
> 
> 
> 
> 

__________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos. <http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/> yahoo.com/green_center/

 

Kevin:
I don't recall saying anything about the price. Was there something in my
post that doesn't appear on my screen?
 
The standard of living in Asia is improving at a faster rate than anywhere
else in the world. The people who work in the musical instrument industry
there are often highly skilled craftsmen who are very well paid. I know this
because I pay them!  Their standard of living is much higher than the
typical  manufacturing worker. It is most unfair of you to draw a comparison
between an economic system that is entirely different from the system used
in the western hemisphere.
 
It's a global economy. Goods and services are freely exchanged worldwide. If
you don't wish to patronize the products of a region, that is certainly your
right. However, I think you are somewhat uninformed as to the realities of
the musical instrument industry, based solely on the content of your post.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:25 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces



Three cheers for the global economy. where the lowest price is more
important than a reasonable standard of living. I for one, would rather pay
more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen

STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote: 


  
As many of you know, I have business interests in various parts of Asia. For
several years, I have been seeking a source of quality saxophone mouthpieces
there, and have met with only limited success.
 
In the last month, I have been contacted by several Asian vendors and have
received many samples. Some are of marginal quality (good for "practice
blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided samples that were of
amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything available anywhere at any
price. The tables were flat and the facings accurate. The materials used and
workmanship exhibited were of the very highest quality. They played great
right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
 
Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said perfect) copies of many well
known brands. They were indistinguishable from the originals except that
they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were particularly impressive.
 
It's about to become a different world. Some of our friends across the Great
Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I salute them. Their facing
work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right up there with the
offerings from some of the very finest makers. The plating looks good. Even
the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of the original designs
were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see a lot of good quality
mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and be thankful that the
options for players are expanding. The last 30 days have been a real eye
opener for me.
 


 <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/> 
READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG  <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/
 
The Music Business is a cruel and  shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and  pimps run free and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."    Hunter S. Thompson


                   

Steve  Goodson 
see our TERMS OF SERVICE  at: 
http://saxgourmet. <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html> com/business.html 
Confidentiality Statement "The information contained in this electronic
message is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use
of the owner of the email address listed as the recipient of this message.
If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution,  forwarding, or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited." 


 






No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. 


  _____  

Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the
boot with the
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt@705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intlca> All-new Yahoo! Mail 

 

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

I do not want to see personal, political or international rants on this 
group.

AGREED!!! The focus here should be the advancement of the art and craft 
of mouthpiece work. Personal differences, product promotion and 
argumentative debates are divergent paths from this forum's purpose.

Keith:
As a matter of clarification:
 
(1) Most of the samples I have recently received have been ORIGINAL designs,
not copies. You can get copies, of course, but the people who have been
contacting me have their own designs, or are willing to produce any design
offered to them. They have the latest equipment insofar as lathes, milling
machines, etc. and apparently have pretty good plating facilities.
 
(2) Almost no mouthpiece designs are patented. Very, very few are. Do a
patent search and you'll see what I mean. Patents are generally a myth. Very
few mouthpiece makers go to the considerable expense necessary to file one.
Even if you file one, the cost of defending a patent on an international
basis is far more than you would make if you were selling 10,000 pieces a
year.
 
(3) the days of Asian saxophones being Mk VI copies are long over. You can
still get VI copies, or copies of just about anything you want, but most of
the Asian manufacturers (at least the major ones) now employ designers to
keep their horns original and unique.
 
 

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Bradbury
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:52 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces



Thanks to Steve for his insight to what may be coming down the road. It
sounds to me like it may parallel the Asian-made saxes where many of them
appear to be copies of Mark VI's etc. As we know, the merits of the Asian
saxes have been debated on the various sax forums ad naseum. I look
forward to some actual reviews of any new mouthpiece offerings here. But I
do not want to see personal, political or international rants on this
group.

We probably have many US mouthpiece patent infringements going on as it is.
I think mouthpiece patents are difficult and costly to enforce. I'm
surprised at what ideas have been granted patents over the years. Some are
really unique, but they are not very practical, and are not in use. I
think "prior art" arguments might negate many mouthpiece patent
enforcements. But I'm not a lawyer...

__________________________________________________________Get the free
Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.
<http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php>
yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php

 

Patents expire also.  Unless I am mistaken they only last 17 years in  USA.
 



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

Your analysis is only half correct. It has nothing to do with communism--it is pure capitalism: mobile capital fleeing to where it can get the most bang for the buck. A few years ago it was Japan and then Korea and Taiwan (hardly communist). As wages in those places started to rise capital moved
 to Vietnam, Indonesia, China, and as wages are rising here (I'm writing from Beijing) capital is now moving into Cambodia, Laos, Africa...
   
  But you are right that externalities in the West--pollution control, for instance, and worker benefits such as health care, are minimal in developing (not communist) countries, and there is no way that capital, looking at maximizing profits in the short term, is going to be willing to support
 workers  in developed countries with their high wages, without capitalism developing a whole new way of looking at what matters in the world.
   
  BTW you should open your eyes to what is happening in China--profit is the new god here: there are thousands of Benz S600s and BMW 750s and Audi A6s cluttering up the roads, and these are not politicians driving them, but businessmen.
   
  Toby
   
  

Kevin Goss <male_saxist@...> wrote:
          As per previous requests, I will avoid politics, or at
least attempt to. First of all, I know you didn't
mention price, but it's been fairly obvious that
saxophones from Taiwan and China are priced lower than
those from Europe or Japan. It's logical to assume
mouthpieces will be similar.

Secondly, I apologize if I'm off-base, but it appears
nigh impossible for a craftsman in the west to compete
and earn a living when a communist government doesn't
use free-market standards of living.

My point is that a Chinese worker is not paying the
same expenses as a westerner, nor is there any
allowance for profit. Are the Barones and Niewoods
etc. expected to lower their costs to compete when
they are living indifferent economic systems.

There's good reason why a designer suit costs more
than something you can by at a clothing store ending
in "mart"

No xenophobbia intended. It just seems that the global
economy is about us lowering instead of them rising
due to the almighty demand for the lowest prices.

If your Asian sources are from free democracies, I
stand corrected.

I shall stay silent henceforth.
--- STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

> Kevin:
> I don't recall saying anything about the price. Was
> there something in my
> post that doesn't appear on my screen?
> 
> The standard of living in Asia is improving at a
> faster rate than anywhere
> else in the world. The people who work in the
> musical instrument industry
> there are often highly skilled craftsmen who are
> very well paid. I know this
> because I pay them! Their standard of living is
> much higher than the
> typical manufacturing worker. It is most unfair of
> you to draw a comparison
> between an economic system that is entirely
> different from the system used
> in the western hemisphere.
> 
> It's a global economy. Goods and services are freely
> exchanged worldwide. If
> you don't wish to patronize the products of a
> region, that is certainly your
> right. However, I think you are somewhat uninformed
> as to the realities of
> the musical instrument industry, based solely on the
> content of your post.
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces
> 
> 
> 
> Three cheers for the global economy. where the
> lowest price is more
> important than a reasonable standard of living. I
> for one, would rather pay
> more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen
> 
> STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> As many of you know, I have business interests in
> various parts of Asia. For
> several years, I have been seeking a source of
> quality saxophone mouthpieces
> there, and have met with only limited success.
> 
> In the last month, I have been contacted by several
> Asian vendors and have
> received many samples. Some are of marginal quality
> (good for "practice
> blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided
> samples that were of
> amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything
> available anywhere at any
> price. The tables were flat and the facings
> accurate. The materials used and
> workmanship exhibited were of the very highest
> quality. They played great
> right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
> 
> Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said
> perfect) copies of many well
> known brands. They were indistinguishable from the
> originals except that
> they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were
> particularly impressive.
> 
> It's about to become a different world. Some of our
> friends across the Great
> Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I
> salute them. Their facing
> work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right
> up there with the
> offerings from some of the very finest makers. The
> plating looks good. Even
> the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of
> the original designs
> were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see
> a lot of good quality
> mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and
> be thankful that the
> options for players are expanding. The last 30 days
> have been a real eye
> opener for me.
> 
> 
> 
> <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/> 
> READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG 
> <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good
> men die like dogs.
> There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Goodson 
> see our TERMS OF SERVICE at: 
> http://saxgourmet.
> <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html>
> com/business.html 
> Confidentiality Statement "The information contained
> in this electronic
> message is privileged and confidential information
> intended only for the use
> of the owner of the email address listed as the
> recipient of this message.
> If you are not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, dissemination,
> distribution, forwarding, or
> copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited." 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
> However
> a large number of electrons were terribly
> inconvenienced. 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at
> giving junk email the
> boot with the
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> ca> All-new Yahoo! Mail 
> 
> 
> 

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

         
 

Gary:
There are various classes of patents, with different lifetimes. I don't
recall all the rules, but I'll give my patent attorney a call and see if I
can get us a concise explanation.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of GARYINLA@...
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:29 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces




Patents expire also.  Unless I am mistaken they only last 17 years in USA.
 



  _____  

See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . 

 

Kevin:
I would respectfully submit that the demand for lower prices has come
primarily from Western consumers. I don't think we would hear many
complaints if excellent quality mouthpieces were available to players at
significantly lower prices.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:46 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces



As per previous requests, I will avoid politics, or at
least attempt to. First of all, I know you didn't
mention price, but it's been fairly obvious that
saxophones from Taiwan and China are priced lower than
those from Europe or Japan. It's logical to assume
mouthpieces will be similar.

Secondly, I apologize if I'm off-base, but it appears
nigh impossible for a craftsman in the west to compete
and earn a living when a communist government doesn't
use free-market standards of living.

My point is that a Chinese worker is not paying the
same expenses as a westerner, nor is there any
allowance for profit. Are the Barones and Niewoods
etc. expected to lower their costs to compete when
they are living indifferent economic systems.

There's good reason why a designer suit costs more
than something you can by at a clothing store ending
in "mart"

No xenophobbia intended. It just seems that the global
economy is about us lowering instead of them rising
due to the almighty demand for the lowest prices.

If your Asian sources are from free democracies, I
stand corrected.

I shall stay silent henceforth.
--- STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox. <mailto:saxgourmet%40cox.net> net> wrote:

> Kevin:
> I don't recall saying anything about the price. Was
> there something in my
> post that doesn't appear on my screen?
> 
> The standard of living in Asia is improving at a
> faster rate than anywhere
> else in the world. The people who work in the
> musical instrument industry
> there are often highly skilled craftsmen who are
> very well paid. I know this
> because I pay them! Their standard of living is
> much higher than the
> typical manufacturing worker. It is most unfair of
> you to draw a comparison
> between an economic system that is entirely
> different from the system used
> in the western hemisphere.
> 
> It's a global economy. Goods and services are freely
> exchanged worldwide. If
> you don't wish to patronize the products of a
> region, that is certainly your
> right. However, I think you are somewhat uninformed
> as to the realities of
> the musical instrument industry, based solely on the
> content of your post.
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces
> 
> 
> 
> Three cheers for the global economy. where the
> lowest price is more
> important than a reasonable standard of living. I
> for one, would rather pay
> more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen
> 
> STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox. <mailto:saxgourmet%40cox.net> net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> As many of you know, I have business interests in
> various parts of Asia. For
> several years, I have been seeking a source of
> quality saxophone mouthpieces
> there, and have met with only limited success.
> 
> In the last month, I have been contacted by several
> Asian vendors and have
> received many samples. Some are of marginal quality
> (good for "practice
> blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided
> samples that were of
> amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything
> available anywhere at any
> price. The tables were flat and the facings
> accurate. The materials used and
> workmanship exhibited were of the very highest
> quality. They played great
> right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
> 
> Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said
> perfect) copies of many well
> known brands. They were indistinguishable from the
> originals except that
> they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were
> particularly impressive.
> 
> It's about to become a different world. Some of our
> friends across the Great
> Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I
> salute them. Their facing
> work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right
> up there with the
> offerings from some of the very finest makers. The
> plating looks good. Even
> the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of
> the original designs
> were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see
> a lot of good quality
> mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and
> be thankful that the
> options for players are expanding. The last 30 days
> have been a real eye
> opener for me.
> 
> 
> 
> <http://www.nationof <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/>
music.com/ecommerce/> 
> READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG 
> <http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good
> men die like dogs.
> There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Goodson 
> see our TERMS OF SERVICE at: 
> http://saxgourmet.
> <http://saxgourmet. <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html>
com/business.html>
> com/business.html 
> Confidentiality Statement "The information contained
> in this electronic
> message is privileged and confidential information
> intended only for the use
> of the owner of the email address listed as the
> recipient of this message.
> If you are not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, dissemination,
> distribution, forwarding, or
> copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited." 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
> However
> a large number of electrons were terribly
> inconvenienced. 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at
> giving junk email the
> boot with the
>
<http://us.rd.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> ca> All-new Yahoo! Mail 
> 
> 
> 

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on
your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.
<http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca> yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

 

In all of this, Steve is merely describing the reality of the musical instrument business.  It is here in this form whether we like it or not.
   
  Right now, a young player on a tight budget can buy a very nice instrument (from a wide range of choices), that equipped with a good mouthpiece can give as good a performance as any pro instrument of the past.  That is amazing.
   
  If instrument makers have been driven out of the USA and Europe, it is our own fault.
   
  I had remarked in the past that Selmer could use some lessons from Taiwan on how to lacquer a sax, but the reality is, environmental laws in Europe have adversely affected how the brass may be cleaned before lacquering.  Labor laws have made it nearly impossible to fire a "less than skillful" employee.
   
  I know from one of my other hobbies, model railroading, a manufacturer in California was almost driven out of business over environmental regulations and painting model railroad cars.  This was finally solved by the use of a new waterbased paint suitable for plastics and screen printing, at higher cost, of course.
   
  The international environmental movement is a form of economic warfare on the west.
   
  Paul Coats

STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:
            Gary:
  There are various classes of patents, with different lifetimes. I don't recall all the rules, but I'll give my patent attorney a call and see if I can get us a concise explanation.

    
---------------------------------
  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GARYINLA@...
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 8:29 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces


  
      Patents expire also.  Unless I am mistaken they only last 17 years in USA.
   



    
---------------------------------
  See what's free at AOL.com. 
  

  

         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

[ Attachment content not displayed ]

I'm saying that this is the part that scares me. As a
Canadian, I hold our social programs near and dear and
it scares me to see those values eroded in the name of
the almighty buck

"But you are right that externalities in the
West--pollution control, for instance, and worker
benefits such as health care, are minimal in
developing (not communist) countries, and there is no
way that capital, looking at maximizing profits in the
short term, is going to be willing to support workers 
in developed countries with their high wages, without
capitalism developing a whole new way of looking at
what matters in the world."

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


      Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail.  Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

And it would be even better if those high-priced mouthpieces did not require further facing work to play properly!  Of course, that would deprive us of all that fun!

STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:      Kevin:
  I would respectfully submit that the demand for lower prices has come primarily from Western consumers. I don't think we would hear many complaints if excellent quality mouthpieces were available to players at significantly lower prices.
   

    
---------------------------------
  From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:46 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces


  
    As per previous requests, I will avoid politics, or at
least attempt to. First of all, I know you didn't
mention price, but it's been fairly obvious that
saxophones from Taiwan and China are priced lower than
those from Europe or Japan. It's logical to assume
mouthpieces will be similar.

Secondly, I apologize if I'm off-base, but it appears
nigh impossible for a craftsman in the west to compete
and earn a living when a communist government doesn't
use free-market standards of living.

My point is that a Chinese worker is not paying the
same expenses as a westerner, nor is there any
allowance for profit. Are the Barones and Niewoods
etc. expected to lower their costs to compete when
they are living indifferent economic systems.

There's good reason why a designer suit costs more
than something you can by at a clothing store ending
in "mart"

No xenophobbia intended. It just seems that the global
economy is about us lowering instead of them rising
due to the almighty demand for the lowest prices.

If your Asian sources are from free democracies, I
stand corrected.

I shall stay silent henceforth.
--- STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote:

> Kevin:
> I don't recall saying anything about the price. Was
> there something in my
> post that doesn't appear on my screen?
> 
> The standard of living in Asia is improving at a
> faster rate than anywhere
> else in the world. The people who work in the
> musical instrument industry
> there are often highly skilled craftsmen who are
> very well paid. I know this
> because I pay them! Their standard of living is
> much higher than the
> typical manufacturing worker. It is most unfair of
> you to draw a comparison
> between an economic system that is entirely
> different from the system used
> in the western hemisphere.
> 
> It's a global economy. Goods and services are freely
> exchanged worldwide. If
> you don't wish to patronize the products of a
> region, that is certainly your
> right. However, I think you are somewhat uninformed
> as to the realities of
> the musical instrument industry, based solely on the
> content of your post.
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces
> 
> 
> 
> Three cheers for the global economy. where the
> lowest price is more
> important than a reasonable standard of living. I
> for one, would rather pay
> more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen
> 
> STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> As many of you know, I have business interests in
> various parts of Asia. For
> several years, I have been seeking a source of
> quality saxophone mouthpieces
> there, and have met with only limited success.
> 
> In the last month, I have been contacted by several
> Asian vendors and have
> received many samples. Some are of marginal quality
> (good for "practice
> blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided
> samples that were of
> amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything
> available anywhere at any
> price. The tables were flat and the facings
> accurate. The materials used and
> workmanship exhibited were of the very highest
> quality. They played great
> right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
> 
> Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said
> perfect) copies of many well
> known brands. They were indistinguishable from the
> originals except that
> they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were
> particularly impressive.
> 
> It's about to become a different world. Some of our
> friends across the Great
> Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I
> salute them. Their facing
> work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right
> up there with the
> offerings from some of the very finest makers. The
> plating looks good. Even
> the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of
> the original designs
> were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see
> a lot of good quality
> mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and
> be thankful that the
> options for players are expanding. The last 30 days
> have been a real eye
> opener for me.
> 
> 
> 
> <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/> 
> READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG 
> <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good
> men die like dogs.
> There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Goodson 
> see our TERMS OF SERVICE at: 
> http://saxgourmet.
> <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html>
> com/business.html 
> Confidentiality Statement "The information contained
> in this electronic
> message is privileged and confidential information
> intended only for the use
> of the owner of the email address listed as the
> recipient of this message.
> If you are not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, dissemination,
> distribution, forwarding, or
> copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited." 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
> However
> a large number of electrons were terribly
> inconvenienced. 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at
> giving junk email the
> boot with the
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> ca> All-new Yahoo! Mail 
> 
> 
> 

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca

 


Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

dan lunsford <bluesnote2000@...> wrote:    Try Cannonball.  They are made in Taiwan, then further tweaked in the US.  Very high quality, big sound.  The tenors sound like my 10M but even more so!
   
  > Hi:

On this topic, I need a new tenor and am heavily
weighing the options. Any recommendations other than
the obvious Selmer, Yamaha, etc.?

Thanks,

BK



Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
       Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evtH518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool

I recently tried a Keilwerth shadow at NAAM. The sound was huge .I'm still more in 
love with my 95xxx MK VI . But it is well worth trying. 
> 
> 
> dan lunsford <bluesnote2000@...> wrote:    Try Cannonball.  They are
> made in Taiwan, then further tweaked in the US.  Very high quality, big
> sound.  The tenors sound like my 10M but even more so!
>    
>   > Hi:
> 
> On this topic, I need a new tenor and am heavily
> weighing the options. Any recommendations other than
> the obvious Selmer, Yamaha, etc.?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BK
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hausmann
> 
> If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
>        Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new
> Car Finder
> tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evtH518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;
_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg--
> hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, tngould@... wrote:
>
> I recently tried a Keilwerth shadow at NAAM. The sound was huge .I'm
still more in 
> love with my 95xxx MK VI . But it is well worth trying. 
> > 
> > 
> > dan lunsford <bluesnote2000@...> wrote:    Try Cannonball.  They are
> > made in Taiwan, then further tweaked in the US.  Very high
quality, big
> > sound.  The tenors sound like my 10M but even more so!
> >    
> >   > Hi:
> > 
> > On this topic, I need a new tenor and am heavily
> > weighing the options. Any recommendations other than
> > the obvious Selmer, Yamaha, etc.?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > BK
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bill Hausmann
> > 
> > If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
> >        Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo!
Autos new
> > Car Finder
> >
tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evtH518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;
>
_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg--
> > hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool
>
Is anarchy entering this site, with a general sax discussion taking
place under the title 'Asian Mouthpieces' ?
I would respectfully suggest, the place for this is at www.sotw.com &
not on this dedicated Mouthpiece - Refacing site.
Is it deliberate sabotage, or just an irritating mistake ?
IMO, it is certainly a confusing and unwanted intrusion.
I love the site the way it is and wish to thank Keith for starting it.

Try this one!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130114332689&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

tngould@... wrote:

> I recently tried a Keilwerth shadow at NAAM. The sound was huge .I'm 
> still more in
> love with my 95xxx MK VI . But it is well worth trying.
> >
> >
> > dan lunsford <bluesnote2000@... 
> <mailto:bluesnote2000%40yahoo.com>> wrote: Try Cannonball. They are
> > made in Taiwan, then further tweaked in the US. Very high quality, big
> > sound. The tenors sound like my 10M but even more so!
> >
> > > Hi:
> >
> > On this topic, I need a new tenor and am heavily
> > weighing the options. Any recommendations other than
> > the obvious Selmer, Yamaha, etc.?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > BK
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Hausmann
> >
> > If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD!
> > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new
> > Car Finder
> > 
> tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/; 
> <tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;>
> _ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg--
> > hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool
>
>  

Thanks for the suggestion,  I may do that,

BK
--- tngould@... wrote:

> I recently tried a Keilwerth shadow at NAAM. The
> sound was huge .I'm still more in 
> love with my 95xxx MK VI . But it is well worth
> trying. 
> > 
> > 
> > dan lunsford <bluesnote2000@...> wrote:   
> Try Cannonball.  They are
> > made in Taiwan, then further tweaked in the US. 
> Very high quality, big
> > sound.  The tenors sound like my 10M but even more
> so!
> >    
> >   > Hi:
> > 
> > On this topic, I need a new tenor and am heavily
> > weighing the options. Any recommendations other
> than
> > the obvious Selmer, Yamaha, etc.?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > BK
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bill Hausmann
> > 
> > If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the
> band is TOO LOUD!
> >        Choose the right car based on your needs. 
> Check out Yahoo! Autos new
> > Car Finder
> >
>
tool.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evtH518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;
>
_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg--
> > hot CTA = Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love 
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 

In the "for what it's worth" department, two different makers sent me
samples that were damn near perfect.....much better than you customarily get
from most USA makers. Other makers have provided samples that were not quite
as good, but still pretty respectable.

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Hausmann
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 9:18 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces



And it would be even better if those high-priced mouthpieces did not require
further facing work to play properly!  Of course, that would deprive us of
all that fun!

STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@...> wrote: 


Kevin:
I would respectfully submit that the demand for lower prices has come
primarily from Western consumers. I don't think we would hear many
complaints if excellent quality mouthpieces were available to players at
significantly lower prices.
 

  _____  

From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 10:46 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces


As per previous requests, I will avoid politics, or at
least attempt to. First of all, I know you didn't
mention price, but it's been fairly obvious that
saxophones from Taiwan and China are priced lower than
those from Europe or Japan. It's logical to assume
mouthpieces will be similar.

Secondly, I apologize if I'm off-base, but it appears
nigh impossible for a craftsman in the west to compete
and earn a living when a communist government doesn't
use free-market standards of living.

My point is that a Chinese worker is not paying the
same expenses as a westerner, nor is there any
allowance for profit. Are the Barones and Niewoods
etc. expected to lower their costs to compete when
they are living indifferent economic systems.

There's good reason why a designer suit costs more
than something you can by at a clothing store ending
in "mart"

No xenophobbia intended. It just seems that the global
economy is about us lowering instead of them rising
due to the almighty demand for the lowest prices.

If your Asian sources are from free democracies, I
stand corrected.

I shall stay silent henceforth.
--- STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox. <mailto:saxgourmet%40cox.net> net> wrote:

> Kevin:
> I don't recall saying anything about the price. Was
> there something in my
> post that doesn't appear on my screen?
> 
> The standard of living in Asia is improving at a
> faster rate than anywhere
> else in the world. The people who work in the
> musical instrument industry
> there are often highly skilled craftsmen who are
> very well paid. I know this
> because I pay them! Their standard of living is
> much higher than the
> typical manufacturing worker. It is most unfair of
> you to draw a comparison
> between an economic system that is entirely
> different from the system used
> in the western hemisphere.
> 
> It's a global economy. Goods and services are freely
> exchanged worldwide. If
> you don't wish to patronize the products of a
> region, that is certainly your
> right. However, I think you are somewhat uninformed
> as to the realities of
> the musical instrument industry, based solely on the
> content of your post.
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Kevin Goss
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:25 AM
> To: MouthpieceWork@ <mailto:MouthpieceWork%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Asian mouthpieces
> 
> 
> 
> Three cheers for the global economy. where the
> lowest price is more
> important than a reasonable standard of living. I
> for one, would rather pay
> more than live the life of a typical Beijing citizen
> 
> STEVE GOODSON <saxgourmet@cox. <mailto:saxgourmet%40cox.net> net> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> As many of you know, I have business interests in
> various parts of Asia. For
> several years, I have been seeking a source of
> quality saxophone mouthpieces
> there, and have met with only limited success.
> 
> In the last month, I have been contacted by several
> Asian vendors and have
> received many samples. Some are of marginal quality
> (good for "practice
> blanks" only), but a couple of the vendors provided
> samples that were of
> amazing quality, absolutely equal to anything
> available anywhere at any
> price. The tables were flat and the facings
> accurate. The materials used and
> workmanship exhibited were of the very highest
> quality. They played great
> right out of the box, with no tweaking necessary.
> 
> Another vendor offered me perfect (yes, I said
> perfect) copies of many well
> known brands. They were indistinguishable from the
> originals except that
> they lacked trademarks. The Guardala copies were
> particularly impressive.
> 
> It's about to become a different world. Some of our
> friends across the Great
> Waters to the West have got it figured out, and I
> salute them. Their facing
> work is as accurate as you can get anywhere, right
> up there with the
> offerings from some of the very finest makers. The
> plating looks good. Even
> the caps and ligatures are of good quality. Some of
> the original designs
> were outstanding in their performance. Expect to see
> a lot of good quality
> mouthpieces on the market from the Asians soon, and
> be thankful that the
> options for players are expanding. The last 30 days
> have been a real eye
> opener for me.
> 
> 
> 
> <http://www.nationof <http://www.nationofmusic.com/ecommerce/>
music.com/ecommerce/> 
> READ MY SAXOPHONE BLOG 
> <http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/>
> http://saxophonetho <http://saxophonethoughts.blogspot.com/>
ughts.blogspot.com/
> 
> The Music Business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long plastic
> hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good
> men die like dogs.
> There's also a negative side." Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Goodson 
> see our TERMS OF SERVICE at: 
> http://saxgourmet. <http://saxgourmet./> 
> <http://saxgourmet. <http://saxgourmet.com/business.html>
com/business.html>
> com/business.html 
> Confidentiality Statement "The information contained
> in this electronic
> message is privileged and confidential information
> intended only for the use
> of the owner of the email address listed as the
> recipient of this message.
> If you are not the intended recipient, or the
> employee or agent responsible
> for delivering this message to the intended
> recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any disclosure, dissemination,
> distribution, forwarding, or
> copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited." 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
> However
> a large number of electrons were terribly
> inconvenienced. 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at
> giving junk email the
> boot with the
>
<http://us.rd.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=
> ca> All-new Yahoo! Mail 
> 
> 
> 

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on
your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.
<http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca> yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca





Bill Hausmann

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is TOO LOUD! 


  _____  

Be a better Globetrotter. Get
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48254/*http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/_ylc=X3oDMTI
5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHN
sawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list&sid=396545469> better travel
answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.