Mouthpiece Work / Re: History of the "Wedge or Baffle"
FROM: didgeridont2000 (Lars Kirmser)
SUBJECT: Re: History of the "Wedge or Baffle"
This email brought to mind a conversation I had with Arnie Brilhart about 35 years ago over lunch.( Arnie and 3 of us from Armstrong (flutes) were working on getting their first clarinet production set up.) Anyway, during the conversation we began to talk about how he got started in the mouthpiece business. He told me that his idea for his "Level Air" design was "stolen" from a trick that was in common use amoung African-American jazz sax players at that time; a practice that was pretty much held in secret from all the non-African-American sax players; that is, until Arnie stumbled across it when examining a well known black performer's mouthpiece. He noticed that he had placed some putty inside the chamber forming a "wedge shape" in the mouthpiece in order to get the characteristic "black" jazz sound. This experience, according to him, was what motivated him to devlope his first jazz mouthpiece. - Lars ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Levine To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified A Link modified with a baffle insert (also called a "wedge") can project very well, and still have nice full low notes. Same idea as the Runyon mouthpieces with the "spoiler" - only IMO it's not the spoiler that makes the big difference but the wedge shaped baffle insert. It's not necessary that such an insert be permanent. (Although there's a good example of a permanent baffle alteration on a Link done by Mojo in the picture files, IIRC.) Usually a baffle insert can be wedged firmly into place if properly fitted, but easily popped out. Barru > Maurizio is a nice italian guy that I know very well. He think a Link HR > can give him a good projection and brightness!!! How to get good altissimo > notes with a rubber Link, even if modified? Better buy another kind of > mouthpiece as Morgan E to get those caracters, and leave the Link stuffy to > other lovers of the mute sound... isn't it? Perhaps still there are > Broadus, Stabile, and more than all the nice McGregory and many other mpcs > playing even better than a Link. > > Maurizio... you wanna get the old sound of the vintage but with better > projection than a Link, so instead to buy a modified Link, why you don't > turn back and go strait to a Meyer? Why you don't like the medium chamber? > > Ciao. Gian > > > www.bebopitalia.com <http://www.bebopitalia.com> > Specialized on SML and vintage sax > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Maurizio Floris <mauriflo81@...> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 12:05:50 AM > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified > > Hi. > I'm italian saxophonist. > Do you have a Ottolink HR n° 8/9 modified to sale? > i have a 10m Conn 344xxx (1952). i want a large chamber mouthpiece but > with power and good altissimo notes. > thanks > > Maurizio Floris > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >
FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)
SUBJECT: Re: History of the "Wedge or Baffle"
Lars, you might find this interesting, too... First an email from Santy Runyon to me about his first mouthpiece design, and then an excerpt from an article about him. Read below.
Paul Coats
Dear Paul: It's going to take a long story to tell what I played before. It was a red hard rubber mouthpiece, that had a metal inserted facing on it. (Paul's note: I have just acquired an old Holton that fits this description.)
And it was this mouthpiece that I filled in somewhat with the chewing gum in order to make it play like I liked. It had the airplane curve on the inside. Every place where I played they couldn't understand how I got the sound. And I wouldn't let anybody look inside. -NO Wwway.
When I got to Chicago Verne Buck wanted to straighten the facing for me .. Again NO way. The next day after a Jam session there were four sax men in Lyons Band Instrument Company trying mouthpieces.
I played it with Henry Busse at the Chez Paree in Chicago, and part of the time in the Chicago Theatre. I designed an alto mouthpiece for J.J. Babbit, which was pretty good after I worked on the tone chamber, and I played it with fair success for a while. Then, after that, I had molds made for my Custom alto. We still have the cores and the mold for that piece. Has about the same as the chewing gum but it looks a little better, and it really does play better than the original.
Arnold (Brilhart) made a pretty good mouthpiece. It looked pretty, and by working on it I could make it play pretty good. Not good enough for me to play in the Chicago Theatre, however. Arnold would not sell them to me direct. He had an exlusive with Lyons Band Instrument Company.
So I started making them myself. That was in about 1938 or 9. Made a bari at the same time, and the first one we sold was to Bruce Bronson with Tommy's (Dorsey's) Band. The arranger, after hearing the broadcast, called up and said "what happened to the sax section, I could hear the bari for the first time."
Long story, Paul, I have more if you think you can stand it.
Warmest Regards,
Santy
And this article by Reese Fuller, staff writer at the Times of Acadiana, based on an interview with Santy Runyon:
When he was 11, he read about the Bernoulli Effect and how it applied to aviation. Bernoulli, a 16th century Swiss scientist, observed that when air flowed horizontally, an increase in the speed of the flow resulted in a decrease in the static pressure. In other words, when air moves faster it exerts less pressure than slower moving air.
The Bernoulli Effect would later be used in designing the airfoil of airplanes. The shape of an airplane wing is designed so that air flowing over the wing travels faster than the air flowing under the wing, which means there is less pressure on the top than on the bottom of the wing. The increased pressure on the bottom of the plane creates lift, allowing it to leave the ground.
Runyon wondered how the effect might affect his horn. He took a piece of chewing gum, shaped it into a small hump resembling a miniature version of the top portion of an airfoil and placed it within the mouthpiece of his sax. The slight hump increased the flow of air going through the mouthpiece and made the instrument louder. For years, he closely guarded the secret of his chewing gum-modified mouthpiece.
Lars Kirmser <syrinx@...> wrote:
This email brought to mind a conversation I had with Arnie Brilhart about 35 years ago over lunch.( Arnie and 3 of us from Armstrong (flutes) were working on getting their first clarinet production set up.) Anyway, during the conversation we began to talk about how he got started in the mouthpiece business. He told me that his idea for his "Level Air" design was "stolen" from a trick that was in common use amoung African-American jazz sax players at that time; a practice that was pretty much held in secret from all the non-African-American sax players; that is, until Arnie stumbled across it when examining a well known black performer's mouthpiece. He noticed that he had placed some putty inside the chamber forming a "wedge shape" in the mouthpiece in order to get the characteristic "black" jazz sound. This experience, according to him, was what motivated him to devlope his first jazz mouthpiece. - Lars
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Levine
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified
A Link modified with a baffle insert (also called a "wedge") can project
very well, and still have nice full low notes. Same idea as the Runyon
mouthpieces with the "spoiler" - only IMO it's not the spoiler that makes
the big difference but the wedge shaped baffle insert.
It's not necessary that such an insert be permanent. (Although there's a
good example of a permanent baffle alteration on a Link done by Mojo in the
picture files, IIRC.)
Usually a baffle insert can be wedged firmly into place if properly fitted,
but easily popped out.
Barru
> Maurizio is a nice italian guy that I know very well. He think a Link HR
> can give him a good projection and brightness!!! How to get good altissimo
> notes with a rubber Link, even if modified? Better buy another kind of
> mouthpiece as Morgan E to get those caracters, and leave the Link stuffy to
> other lovers of the mute sound... isn't it? Perhaps still there are
> Broadus, Stabile, and more than all the nice McGregory and many other mpcs
> playing even better than a Link.
>
> Maurizio... you wanna get the old sound of the vintage but with better
> projection than a Link, so instead to buy a modified Link, why you don't
> turn back and go strait to a Meyer? Why you don't like the medium chamber?
>
> Ciao. Gian
>
>
> www.bebopitalia.com <http://www.bebopitalia.com>
> Specialized on SML and vintage sax
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Maurizio Floris <mauriflo81@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 12:05:50 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified
>
> Hi.
> I'm italian saxophonist.
> Do you have a Ottolink HR n� 8/9 modified to sale?
> i have a 10m Conn 344xxx (1952). i want a large chamber mouthpiece but
> with power and good altissimo notes.
> thanks
>
> Maurizio Floris
>
>
>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
FROM: didgeridont2000 (Lars Kirmser)
SUBJECT: Re: History of the "Wedge or Baffle"
Very interesting Paul; I guess the history is pretty complicated with so many creative individuals being involved. Thanks for posting this. - Lars
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul C.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork]History of the "Wedge or Baffle"
Lars, you might find this interesting, too... First an email from Santy Runyon to me about his first mouthpiece design, and then an excerpt from an article about him. Read below.
Paul Coats
Dear Paul: It's going to take a long story to tell what I played before. It was a red hard rubber mouthpiece, that had a metal inserted facing on it. (Paul's note: I have just acquired an old Holton that fits this description.)
And it was this mouthpiece that I filled in somewhat with the chewing gum in order to make it play like I liked. It had the airplane curve on the inside. Every place where I played they couldn't understand how I got the sound. And I wouldn't let anybody look inside. -NO Wwway.
When I got to Chicago Verne Buck wanted to straighten the facing for me .. Again NO way. The next day after a Jam session there were four sax men in Lyons Band Instrument Company trying mouthpieces.
I played it with Henry Busse at the Chez Paree in Chicago, and part of the time in the Chicago Theatre. I designed an alto mouthpiece for J.J. Babbit, which was pretty good after I worked on the tone chamber, and I played it with fair success for a while. Then, after that, I had molds made for my Custom alto. We still have the cores and the mold for that piece. Has about the same as the chewing gum but it looks a little better, and it really does play better than the original.
Arnold (Brilhart) made a pretty good mouthpiece. It looked pretty, and by working on it I could make it play pretty good. Not good enough for me to play in the Chicago Theatre, however. Arnold would not sell them to me direct. He had an exlusive with Lyons Band Instrument Company.
So I started making them myself. That was in about 1938 or 9. Made a bari at the same time, and the first one we sold was to Bruce Bronson with Tommy's (Dorsey's) Band. The arranger, after hearing the broadcast, called up and said "what happened to the sax section, I could hear the bari for the first time."
Long story, Paul, I have more if you think you can stand it.
Warmest Regards,
Santy
And this article by Reese Fuller, staff writer at the Times of Acadiana, based on an interview with Santy Runyon:
When he was 11, he read about the Bernoulli Effect and how it applied to aviation. Bernoulli, a 16th century Swiss scientist, observed that when air flowed horizontally, an increase in the speed of the flow resulted in a decrease in the static pressure. In other words, when air moves faster it exerts less pressure than slower moving air.
The Bernoulli Effect would later be used in designing the airfoil of airplanes. The shape of an airplane wing is designed so that air flowing over the wing travels faster than the air flowing under the wing, which means there is less pressure on the top than on the bottom of the wing. The increased pressure on the bottom of the plane creates lift, allowing it to leave the ground.
Runyon wondered how the effect might affect his horn. He took a piece of chewing gum, shaped it into a small hump resembling a miniature version of the top portion of an airfoil and placed it within the mouthpiece of his sax. The slight hump increased the flow of air going through the mouthpiece and made the instrument louder. For years, he closely guarded the secret of his chewing gum-modified mouthpiece.
Lars Kirmser <syrinx@musictrader.com> wrote:
This email brought to mind a conversation I had with Arnie Brilhart about 35 years ago over lunch.( Arnie and 3 of us from Armstrong (flutes) were working on getting their first clarinet production set up.) Anyway, during the conversation we began to talk about how he got started in the mouthpiece business. He told me that his idea for his "Level Air" design was "stolen" from a trick that was in common use amoung African-American jazz sax players at that time; a practice that was pretty much held in secret from all the non-African-American sax players; that is, until Arnie stumbled across it when examining a well known black performer's mouthpiece. He noticed that he had placed some putty inside the chamber forming a "wedge shape" in the mouthpiece in order to get the characteristic "black" jazz sound. This experience, according to him, was what motivated him to devlope his first jazz mouthpiece. - Lars
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Levine
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified
A Link modified with a baffle insert (also called a "wedge") can project
very well, and still have nice full low notes. Same idea as the Runyon
mouthpieces with the "spoiler" - only IMO it's not the spoiler that makes
the big difference but the wedge shaped baffle insert.
It's not necessary that such an insert be permanent. (Although there's a
good example of a permanent baffle alteration on a Link done by Mojo in the
picture files, IIRC.)
Usually a baffle insert can be wedged firmly into place if properly fitted,
but easily popped out.
Barru
> Maurizio is a nice italian guy that I know very well. He think a Link HR
> can give him a good projection and brightness!!! How to get good altissimo
> notes with a rubber Link, even if modified? Better buy another kind of
> mouthpiece as Morgan E to get those caracters, and leave the Link stuffy to
> other lovers of the mute sound... isn't it? Perhaps still there are
> Broadus, Stabile, and more than all the nice McGregory and many other mpcs
> playing even better than a Link.
>
> Maurizio... you wanna get the old sound of the vintage but with better
> projection than a Link, so instead to buy a modified Link, why you don't
> turn back and go strait to a Meyer? Why you don't like the medium chamber?
>
> Ciao. Gian
>
>
> www.bebopitalia.com <http://www.bebopitalia.com>
> Specialized on SML and vintage sax
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Maurizio Floris <mauriflo81@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 12:05:50 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] otto link modified
>
> Hi.
> I'm italian saxophonist.
> Do you have a Ottolink HR n° 8/9 modified to sale?
> i have a 10m Conn 344xxx (1952). i want a large chamber mouthpiece but
> with power and good altissimo notes.
> thanks
>
> Maurizio Floris
>
>
>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.