c-melody mouthpiece (Mouthpiece Work Yahoo Group)

FROM: cubismofree (Gian Luca Corino)

SUBJECT: c-melody mouthpiece

Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?) 
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
 but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on. 
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I don't understand the term "camera" as you use it. Sorry.

The C Melody sax plays well with tenor mouthpieces with medium to small chambers. The C Melody mouthpiece that Runyon sells is their Model 88 tenor with the shank shortened. It plays well on C Melody sax using tenor reeds.

The facing length around 21-22 mm works well (42-44 on the E. Brand type gauges). While old mouthpieces had a very narrow tip opening (as was the practice on all instruments) many players now are using tip openings of .086"-.090" (2.2 mm - 2.3 mm) on C Melody.

Paul Coats

Gian Luca Corino <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?)
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on.
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1�/min.

FROM: kymarto (Toby)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

I think Gian means whether the room can influence the sound, as "camera" is Italian for room. Ciao Gian, abitavo per cinque anni in Italia, tant'anni fa. Me fa piacere parlare quella bella lingua di nuovo!

I did some bore measurements on a very old Conn curved-neck C mel that I have, and found that the bore is narrower than an alto! I prefer to play it with an alto piece, although I have to pull it almost all the way off the cork for it to be in tune. I have a few tenor pieces, none of which really sounds good on the C mel. They sound muffled and seem rather sluggish. I have a few original C mel mpcs, which are considerably smaller than tenor pieces, but with such absurdly small tip openings that I can hardly play them, even with the hardest reeds available.

I wonder if the problem that you are having with the "wave sound" on the lows might not have to do with a small leak somewhere on the Conn. I think you should get that checked out before getting a lot further into mpcs. It is very possible that one mpc (the Babbitt) might be more tolerant of some small leaks (depends also on your embouchure), especially if it has a more closed tip opening than the Leblanc.

Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul C.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I don't understand the term "camera" as you use it. Sorry.

The C Melody sax plays well with tenor mouthpieces with medium to small chambers. The C Melody mouthpiece that Runyon sells is their Model 88 tenor with the shank shortened. It plays well on C Melody sax using tenor reeds.

The facing length around 21-22 mm works well (42-44 on the E. Brand type gauges). While old mouthpieces had a very narrow tip opening (as was the practice on all instruments) many players now are using tip openings of .086"-.090" (2.2 mm - 2.3 mm) on C Melody.

Paul Coats

Gian Luca Corino <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?)
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on.
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

Toby: Thanks... Gian's English is much better than my Italian. I only know the adverbs... Piano, Allegro, Accelerando, Crescendo, etc.

Paul

Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
I think Gian means whether the room can influence the sound, as "camera" is Italian for room. Ciao Gian, abitavo per cinque anni in Italia, tant'anni fa. Me fa piacere parlare quella bella lingua di nuovo!

I did some bore measurements on a very old Conn curved-neck C mel that I have, and found that the bore is narrower than an alto! I prefer to play it with an alto piece, although I have to pull it almost all the way off the cork for it to be in tune. I have a few tenor pieces, none of which really sounds good on the C mel. They sound muffled and seem rather sluggish. I have a few original C mel mpcs, which are considerably smaller than tenor pieces, but with such absurdly small tip openings that I can hardly play them, even with the hardest reeds available.

I wonder if the problem that you are having with the "wave sound" on the lows might not have to do with a small leak somewhere on the Conn. I think you should get that checked out before getting a lot further into mpcs. It is very possible that one mpc (the Babbitt) might be more tolerant of some small leaks (depends also on your embouchure), especially if it has a more closed tip opening than the Leblanc.

Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul C.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I don't understand the term "camera" as you use it. Sorry.

The C Melody sax plays well with tenor mouthpieces with medium to small chambers. The C Melody mouthpiece that Runyon sells is their Model 88 tenor with the shank shortened. It plays well on C Melody sax using tenor reeds.

The facing length around 21-22 mm works well (42-44 on the E. Brand type gauges). While old mouthpieces had a very narrow tip opening (as was the practice on all instruments) many players now are using tip openings of .086"-.090" (2.2 mm - 2.3 mm) on C Melody.

Paul Coats

Gian Luca Corino <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?)
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on.
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1�/min.

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

---------------------------------
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FROM: cubismofree (Bebop Italia)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

yes Toby. grazie mille per la bella lingua, ah ah!
 
 you right: camera is a room but on this case we call chamber, as on italian classic music we call... musica da camera...!
 
 Ciao. Gian




The vintage saxophone webpage is here!
  www.bebopitalia.com
 Need a vintage sax in perfect condition?
 Need a flute or a windwood? Need a mouthpiece?
 Need an hard to find model? Just order to us!
 WE ARE HERE TO SERVE YOU AT NICE PRICE
 Specialized on SML and vintage sax
 

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FROM: cubismofree (Bebop Italia)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

Hey... piano piano pianissimo Paul,

first my English is not so ! and second, because I'm always asking to myself... why you there read C D E and me DO RE MI ?
but piano is piano and forte is forte... !!!

Gian

"Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
Toby: Thanks... Gian's English is much better than my Italian. I only know the adverbs... Piano, Allegro, Accelerando, Crescendo, etc.

Paul

Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
I think Gian means whether the room can influence the sound, as "camera" is Italian for room. Ciao Gian, abitavo per cinque anni in Italia, tant'anni fa. Me fa piacere parlare quella bella lingua di nuovo!

I did some bore measurements on a very old Conn curved-neck C mel that I have, and found that the bore is narrower than an alto! I prefer to play it with an alto piece, although I have to pull it almost all the way off the cork for it to be in tune. I have a few tenor pieces, none of which really sounds good on the C mel. They sound muffled and seem rather sluggish. I have a few original C mel mpcs, which are considerably smaller than tenor pieces, but with such absurdly small tip openings that I can hardly play them, even with the hardest reeds available.

I wonder if the problem that you are having with the "wave sound" on the lows might not have to do with a small leak somewhere on the Conn. I think you should get that checked out before getting a lot further into mpcs. It is very possible that one mpc (the Babbitt) might be more tolerant of some small leaks (depends also on your embouchure), especially if it has a more closed tip opening than the Leblanc.

Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul C.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I don't understand the term "camera" as you use it. Sorry.

The C Melody sax plays well with tenor mouthpieces with medium to small chambers. The C Melody mouthpiece that Runyon sells is their Model 88 tenor with the shank shortened. It plays well on C Melody sax using tenor reeds.

The facing length around 21-22 mm works well (42-44 on the E. Brand type gauges). While old mouthpieces had a very narrow tip opening (as was the practice on all instruments) many players now are using tip openings of .086"-.090" (2.2 mm - 2.3 mm) on C Melody.

Paul Coats

Gian Luca Corino <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?)
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on.
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1�/min.

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
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FROM: cubismofree (Bebop Italia)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

The alto Babbitt I've used is .075, about the Leblanc was sold... I dont remember the size but it was the Woodwind Co. C model.
The tenor mp I use have at least tip .100 to .110 and big chamber or medium-big, same story for me thinking to old style mp stuffy. You've right.
As Paul said may be I will try a smaller chamber on tenor mp.

The Conn have not leaking and have been checked with light... that was my first thinking too. He have also new black skin with resonator pads from Saxgourmet.

I was thinking to some leak on the tuned wheel of the neck. This Conn have alto style neck and tuner... it's easy working up and down, no stocked, but should be possible?

Ciao. Gian

Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
I think Gian means whether the room can influence the sound, as "camera" is Italian for room. Ciao Gian, abitavo per cinque anni in Italia, tant'anni fa. Me fa piacere parlare quella bella lingua di nuovo!

I did some bore measurements on a very old Conn curved-neck C mel that I have, and found that the bore is narrower than an alto! I prefer to play it with an alto piece, although I have to pull it almost all the way off the cork for it to be in tune. I have a few tenor pieces, none of which really sounds good on the C mel. They sound muffled and seem rather sluggish. I have a few original C mel mpcs, which are considerably smaller than tenor pieces, but with such absurdly small tip openings that I can hardly play them, even with the hardest reeds available.

I wonder if the problem that you are having with the "wave sound" on the lows might not have to do with a small leak somewhere on the Conn. I think you should get that checked out before getting a lot further into mpcs. It is very possible that one mpc (the Babbitt) might be more tolerant of some small leaks (depends also on your embouchure), especially if it has a more closed tip opening than the Leblanc.

Toby

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul C.
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I don't understand the term "camera" as you use it. Sorry.

The C Melody sax plays well with tenor mouthpieces with medium to small chambers. The C Melody mouthpiece that Runyon sells is their Model 88 tenor with the shank shortened. It plays well on C Melody sax using tenor reeds.

The facing length around 21-22 mm works well (42-44 on the E. Brand type gauges). While old mouthpieces had a very narrow tip opening (as was the practice on all instruments) many players now are using tip openings of .086"-.090" (2.2 mm - 2.3 mm) on C Melody.

Paul Coats

Gian Luca Corino <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hi dears,

I've an old Martin and a Conn Transitional on C. The Martin plays
great with a Leblanc for c-mel. I didn't find another good as that...
but if I play it on the Conn I get on the low notes starting from E
and D it start something like a wave sound. (why it's happen? camera
or bore vvolume can influence?)
I think rules are the same on this kind of mp... but what is really
the difference from a tenor mp to the c-mel? They just looks the same
but short the c-mel. I tested alto mps: all bad... but an old plastic
Babbitt with long facing and big window on the Conn it was playing
without the wave sound, correct blowing and so on.
So many questions come in my mind because only things I know are
comune knowledges as big chamber, no baffle, etc etc....

Why this happen? What is the relation of the camera and the tube of
the c-mel. Let's suppose for absurd... a different neck can help the
mp to play correct? Or as I think I will never find a mouthpiece able
to play well on both the sax?

Size of chamber related to low baffle is an old way to make a
mouthpiece, but time is change. Who is able today to make a new cut
for a c-mel mp in hard rubber? Somebody do? The mps on the market are
usefully Beechler, woodwind company, some others... but they don't
have a good sound for me. I would like to get a Morgan sound as the
excalibur, with good projection too, something missing on the old
style c-mel mouthpiece.

So men of big experience please come out and help me to understand
when possible! Thanks.

Ciao. Gian

Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from
http://www.saxrax.com
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...

---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1�/min.

The vintage saxophone webpage is here!
www.bebopitalia.com
Need a vintage sax in perfect condition?
Need a flute or a windwood? Need a mouthpiece?
Need an hard to find model? Just order to us!
WE ARE HERE TO SERVE YOU AT NICE PRICE
Specialized on SML and vintage sax

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

Ahh, the mouthpiece chamber.
   
  Yes, now I understand.
   
  Paul

Bebop Italia <cubismofree@...> wrote:
          yes Toby. grazie mille per la bella lingua, ah ah!

you right: camera is a room but on this case we call chamber, as on italian classic music we call... musica da camera...!

Ciao. Gian




  The vintage saxophone webpage is here!
www.bebopitalia.com
Need a vintage sax in perfect condition?
Need a flute or a windwood? Need a mouthpiece?
Need an hard to find model? Just order to us!
WE ARE HERE TO SERVE YOU AT NICE PRICE
Specialized on SML and vintage sax

  Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
 		
---------------------------------
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FROM: tenorman1952 (Paul C.)

SUBJECT: Re: c-melody mouthpiece

Gian, I alway use that as a joke... "I speak some Italian, but being a musician, I only know the adverbs."

You know the "dollar bill trick" to clean the G# pad so that it does not stick? I was told that a $50 bill cleans the G# pad much better, but being a musician, I would not know from experience.

Do, Re, Mi...

For us, C is always C, D is always D, E is always E.

But if in key of C, Do is C. If in the key of G, Do is G, Re is A, Mi is B. And in the key of E, Do is E, Re is F#, Mi is G#....

So we do use Do, Re, Me, but to describe the first note of the scale, second note, third note, etc.

Now those silly Brits... an 8th note is a quaver. A 16th note is a semiquaver...

And if you play music by Percy Grainger, he would not use Italian expression markings. He would mark the music "Louden" instead of "Crescendo", or "Quicken" instead of "Accelerando".

I'll remember that... Camera... room or chamber. Yes, it makes sense.

Paul

Bebop Italia <cubismofree@...> wrote:
Hey... piano piano pianissimo Paul,