Mouthpiece Work / harmonics vs fingered note
FROM: r1l2h32000 (ralph hopper)
SUBJECT: harmonics vs fingered note
When playing harmonics or the fingered notes on a horn, what affects the pitch of the upper notes vs the fingering of the note? If I'm explaining myself correctly - I'm currently checking out a couple of mpcs and using a Bb soprano, by fingering the low Bb and playing harmonics up to the next Bb and then the F in this example. The F plays within very close pitch played both ways with one mpc. But with the other mpc the pitch of the fingered F is considerably flat. I'm being careful not to change emboucher doing this. So, is it some function of the baffle? Or the chamber? Thanks Ralph www.ralphhopper.ca
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: harmonics vs fingered note
Probably a function of the overall volume of the mpc, which is mainly a correlate of the chamber size. Is it just this one note that is out of tune? How about D1 D2 A, for instance--same phenomenon: A fingered is flat as compared to A harmonic?
It has to do with the intonational irregularities inevitably introduced when the top of the cone is cut off in order to have a place to put the mouthpiece. The volume of the mpc should be equivalent to the volume of the truncated section of cone, or else you get tuning irregularities between the short tube notes and the long tube notes. But this shouldn't affect only one note, such as the F.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: ralph hopper
To: mouthpiecework@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:20 AM
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] harmonics vs fingered note
When playing harmonics or the fingered notes on a
horn, what affects the pitch of the upper notes vs the
fingering of the note?
If I'm explaining myself correctly - I'm currently
checking out a couple of mpcs and using a Bb soprano,
by fingering the low Bb and playing harmonics up to
the next Bb and then the F in this example.
The F plays within very close pitch played both ways
with one mpc. But with the other mpc the pitch of the
fingered F is considerably flat. I'm being careful
not to change emboucher doing this.
So, is it some function of the baffle? Or the
chamber?
Thanks
Ralph
www.ralphhopper.ca
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FROM: r1l2h32000 (ralph hopper)
SUBJECT: Re: harmonics vs fingered note
Thanks, Toby. I didn't have time to try harmonics from other notes - the B, C... but will get to that next time. I gather from your response that it would be possible to rework the chamber size if this is what is causing a mpc to be flat on several notes. Or would this cause too many other issues on the horn overall? Ralph --- Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote: > Probably a function of the overall volume of the > mpc, which is mainly a correlate of the chamber > size. Is it just this one note that is out of tune? > How about D1 D2 A, for instance--same phenomenon: A > fingered is flat as compared to A harmonic? > > It has to do with the intonational irregularities > inevitably introduced when the top of the cone is > cut off in order to have a place to put the > mouthpiece. The volume of the mpc should be > equivalent to the volume of the truncated section of > cone, or else you get tuning irregularities between > the short tube notes and the long tube notes. But > this shouldn't affect only one note, such as the F. > > Toby > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ralph hopper > To: mouthpiecework@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:20 AM > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] harmonics vs fingered > note > > > When playing harmonics or the fingered notes on a > horn, what affects the pitch of the upper notes vs > the > fingering of the note? > > If I'm explaining myself correctly - I'm currently > checking out a couple of mpcs and using a Bb > soprano, > by fingering the low Bb and playing harmonics up > to > the next Bb and then the F in this example. > > The F plays within very close pitch played both > ways > with one mpc. But with the other mpc the pitch of > the > fingered F is considerably flat. I'm being > careful > not to change emboucher doing this. > > So, is it some function of the baffle? Or the > chamber? > Thanks > Ralph > > > www.ralphhopper.ca > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com > > Visit the site at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to > Mouthpiece Work. > > To see and modify your groups, go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "MouthpieceWork" on the > web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email to: > MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > www.ralphhopper.ca
FROM: kymarto (Toby)
SUBJECT: Re: harmonics vs fingered note
It should be possible, but that will change the playing characteristics of the mpc, and might require reworking the baffle to balance the change in the chamber. I also wouldn't know whether you would have to enlarge the chamber or make it smaller--too much enlargement might be impossible, depending on the material of the mpc and the wall thickness.
Toby
----- Original Message -----
From: ralph hopper
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] harmonics vs fingered note
Thanks, Toby. I didn't have time to try harmonics
from other notes - the B, C... but will get to that
next time. I gather from your response that it would
be possible to rework the chamber size if this is what
is causing a mpc to be flat on several notes. Or would
this cause too many other issues on the horn overall?
Ralph
--- Toby <kymarto123@...> wrote:
> Probably a function of the overall volume of the
> mpc, which is mainly a correlate of the chamber
> size. Is it just this one note that is out of tune?
> How about D1 D2 A, for instance--same phenomenon: A
> fingered is flat as compared to A harmonic?
>
> It has to do with the intonational irregularities
> inevitably introduced when the top of the cone is
> cut off in order to have a place to put the
> mouthpiece. The volume of the mpc should be
> equivalent to the volume of the truncated section of
> cone, or else you get tuning irregularities between
> the short tube notes and the long tube notes. But
> this shouldn't affect only one note, such as the F.
>
> Toby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ralph hopper
> To: mouthpiecework@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 5:20 AM
> Subject: [MouthpieceWork] harmonics vs fingered
> note
>
>
> When playing harmonics or the fingered notes on a
> horn, what affects the pitch of the upper notes vs
> the
> fingering of the note?
>
> If I'm explaining myself correctly - I'm currently
> checking out a couple of mpcs and using a Bb
> soprano,
> by fingering the low Bb and playing harmonics up
> to
> the next Bb and then the F in this example.
>
> The F plays within very close pitch played both
> ways
> with one mpc. But with the other mpc the pitch of
> the
> fingered F is considerably flat. I'm being
> careful
> not to change emboucher doing this.
>
> So, is it some function of the baffle? Or the
> chamber?
> Thanks
> Ralph
>
>
> www.ralphhopper.ca
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to
> MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to
> Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
>
>
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> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "MouthpieceWork" on the
> web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
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>
>
www.ralphhopper.ca
Got a Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
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