I recently refaced an E flat clarinet mouthpiece and it now plays beautifully.  It has an 
exceptional high register.  The only problem is that this piece plays about 15 to 20 cents 
sharp.  Now I have plenty of experince applying facings, but I have never messed with the 
baffle or the bore of a mouthpiece.  I assume that making the interior of the mouthpiece 
larger will lower the pitch, but I am not sure how to go about doing this.  I do not want to 
lose the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece.  I did a search but could not come up with 
the specific info that I need.

In case it matters, the mouthpiece is an old Noblet 2V and I am playing a Buffet Prestige E 
flat.

Why not just pull out some?  Use tuning rings or look for a longer barrel?

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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Why not just pull out some?  Use tuning rings or look for a longer barrel?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Well I was hoping there was some sort of work that could be done on the mouthpiece 
interior.  Of course I could buy another barrel, but since this group is about mouthpiece work 
I was hoping for some info in that direction.

You are right!
The longher barrel suggestion is improper becouse will
influence more the LH tunes, expecially the so called
"throat tunes", then the RH tunes.
You can instead enlarge the internal diameter of the
mouthpiece bore along all its cylindrical extention,
and if you want to be very smart, you can modify also
the barrel bore making it inverse conical in order to
adapt the final diameter of the mouthpiece bore to
that of your standard clarinet.
It is a well known procedure applied when you want to
use old large bore Chedeville mouthpieces to more
modern clarinet.
Manfredo Cavallini
www.clarinet.it


--- sanguinepenguin123 <sanguinepenguin123@...>
ha scritto: 


---------------------------------

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury
<kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Why not just pull out some?  Use tuning rings or
look for a longer barrel?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Well I was hoping there was some sort of work that
could be done on the mouthpiece 
interior.  Of course I could buy another barrel, but
since this group is about mouthpiece work 
I was hoping for some info in that direction.





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When it comes to mouthpieces, when adjusting for pitch, everything else will change.  That is why people are suggesting that you should leave a great playing mouthpiece alone and solve the pitch issues with your instrument...barrel.
   
  In my experience, Eb mouthpieces are better to play sharp than in tune.  I am not suggesting that you should play sharp but I am suggesting that you will need to be able to play high to be a functional member of the ensemble.  There are several reasons I believe this:
  1.  Stretch intonation.  As the piano goes higher, so does the tuning.
  2.  Violin intonation.  As the solo violinist goes higher, so goes the pitch usually...
  3.  Piccolo intonation.  In my experience, flutes and piccolos tend to play sharp
  4.  Wind intonation.  When Eb is used, it is typically in an orchestration that has largeer wind sections.  Winds tend to play sharp as their numbers increase and as they feel they need to be heard.
  5.  As Eb is high up in the registration of the orchestra/band, you may find that being able to play a little above a 440 will allow you to play in tune in your ensemble
   
  Longer Eb barrels are readily available.  I would suggest giving Allan Segal a call for his Eb barrels as he makes them to work with Bb reeds if you wish.  Very interesting.  His website is www.clarinetconcepts.com
   
  When lowering the pitch of any mouthpiece, total volume is the answer.  Here would be a great place to discuss the causes and effects of increasing volume in various parts of a mouthpiece.  
   
  I would like to start by adding these observations.
   
  Bore:  As the volume increases so does the size of sound, and perhaps a harder reed may be required because a certain type of tightness diminishes.  Due to this reduction in tightness a certain kind of flexibility is gained.  But with a smaller bore comes stability and the ability to play with lighter reeds comfortably.  The amount bore changes I am talking about are rarely more than .001 inch.  Voicing a bore to the type of player, reed style, tonal concept, facing schedule, and material resonance can be very helpful to get that last bit of something special out of the mouthpiece.  The key is not to do too much...In my opinion most refacers ream because they can...not because the mouthpiece benefits from it.  Reaming is easy to do and it affects real change.  The problem is that change is not necessarily better.  I would suggest that less is more here.
   
  Bore shape:  More bore taper is often the characteristic of Kaspar clarinet mouthpieces and this is not necessarily a good thing when intonation is concerned.  From a tonal perspective a slightly larger exit bore can create a lovely multi-dimensional tone quality but it can also lower the pitch (too much).  It is easier to do than reaming the entire bore so many people like to do it, but again caution is very important.  A bore with a more conically shaped design can cause the intonation to stretch as the fundamental goes flatter and the twelfth can seem wider as a result.  I would recommend maintaining a less flared bore design.
   
  Chamber:  The chamber can be divided into several parts.  Upper (near the tip), middle, and lower.  There are many different baffle designs and this is a subject of much debate, but please remember that the chamber is not only the baffle but the distance between sidewalls as well. There is another important part of a chamber's design called the throat.  So lets take it apart...the chamber is a combination of the baffle shape, distance between sidewalls and throat shape.  Additionally on clarinet mouthpieces is the ramp that is directly beneath the table.
   
  Baffle.  One can easily modify pitch by modifying the shape of the baffle, but be very careful because any changes in baffle shape/design will change the response and resonance of the mouthpiece.  Generally a deeper baffle mellows the sound and slows the response.  Interestingly one can attempt several hybrid combinations in baffle design by deepening the lower baffle (for depth) and maintaining some height in  the upper baffle (for resonance and quick response)  The lower the baffle the lower the pitch, but watch out...If the middle section of the baffle gets too low, the throat tones will go flat. 
   
  Side Walls:  Generally the wider the distance between the sidewalls the wider the sound.  Also the resistance diminishes as distance increases.  The danger is to not go too wide as the sound can get washed out, diffused and loose important working resistance for snappy response with cushion in the sound.  A hybrid version of a window shape is to make it wider at the top (near the tip) and narrower at the bottom.  this can deliver an easy free blowing quality while keeping a healthy working resistance and quality resonance.  Making the sidewalls wider will lower pitch because it increases volume.  A trick to free up a mouthpiece without reducing pitch is to beval the sidewalls at the siderails without increasing the width of the sidewalls too much.  This will free the reed's vibration without removing much material and therefore keep the pitch where you had it before.
   
  Throat.  The wider the throat the wider the sound.  Sound needs some concentration to maintain stability and resonance, so this area is also crucial. Throats come in two general shapes...the A-frame and the H-frame.  Generally the wide German style of the A-frame creates a wider sounding free playing mouthpiece.  The H-frame can come in many widths...if it is too wide once again the sound will become washed out and more diffused.  If the throat is very narrow, resistance can increase and flexibility can decrease.  Many mouthpieces are made with the hybrid "slightly A-framed throat" that is designed to allow for the breadth of sound and free blowing qualities of a wide throat and the concentration of sound of the narrower H-framed throats.  Generally these designs are at the top as narrow or narrower than the H-frame throat designs but wider at the bottom to invite an added multi-dimensional quality to the sound.
   
  Ramp: is crucial for response.  Many refacers like to dig alot of material out of the ramp because it gives the player alot of benefits...freedom and response.  The danger is that as material is removed from this area, structural integrity of the mouthpiece is reduced and warpage can occur much more quickly.  Generally a little bit of material removed from the ramp does not change intonation very much. 
   
  I hope this information helps, but I know there are many mouthpiece experts out there and I would love to know what you think.  Please add, disect and improve what I have stated.  Please note that the things I have outlined are my own opinions founded by my experience refacing many mouthpieces.  The best way to learn is to do...
   
  Best wishes,
  
sanguinepenguin123 <sanguinepenguin123@...> wrote:
  I recently refaced an E flat clarinet mouthpiece and it now plays beautifully.  It has an 
exceptional high register.  The only problem is that this piece plays about 15 to 20 cents 
sharp.  Now I have plenty of experince applying facings, but I have never messed with the 
baffle or the bore of a mouthpiece.  I assume that making the interior of the mouthpiece 
larger will lower the pitch, but I am not sure how to go about doing this.  I do not want to 
lose the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece.  I did a search but could not come up with 
the specific info that I need.

In case it matters, the mouthpiece is an old Noblet 2V and I am playing a Buffet Prestige E 
flat.







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Thank you Brad.
I am new to this list and I am thrilled that someone of your reputation feels free to openly share from your experience.

Many years ago Elsa Ludwig-Verdehr visited Australia and I was fortunate to be able spend some time with her.  On her return from her tour she sent me the names and addresses of about fifteen different mouthpiece makers in the US, all of whom I wrote to in order to ask for some help in getting started.  Not one of them bothered to reply, which I found very disappointing and discouraging.

And so I am greatly encouraged, both to know you are on this list, and to be able to receive such good advice via this medium.

Best wishes,
Geoff Secomb.
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Behn 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Lowering the Pitch of a Mouthpiece

Geoff,
   
  I am happy to help in any way that I can.  Often things get busy but I will try to be available to you or anyone else who may have questions.  Please feel free to email me directly if you prefer.  Please use the email address that is on my website though www.clarinetmouthpiece.com 
   
  Elsa and I have been working for the past couple of months on mouthpieces and I must say she is quite the clarinetist, and a wonderful person.  Her trio has commisioned works from the great composers around the world.  Her performance, teaching, and pedagogy are leaving quite the footprint on the music scene. 
   
  With her help I have developed a mouthpiece that is more open than my usual designs but I must say that I am excited about its potential.  I may even offer it to others as a standard option in the near future.
   
  Best wishes,
  Brad 
   
  
Geoff & Sherryl-Lee Secomb <gsecomb@...> wrote:
          Thank you Brad.
  I am new to this list and I am thrilled that someone of your reputation feels free to openly share from your experience.
   
  Many years ago Elsa Ludwig-Verdehr visited Australia and I was fortunate to be able spend some time with her.  On her return from her tour she sent me the names and addresses of about fifteen different mouthpiece makers in the US, all of whom I wrote to in order to ask for some help in getting started.  Not one of them bothered to reply, which I found very disappointing and discouraging.
   
  And so I am greatly encouraged, both to know you are on this list, and to be able to receive such good advice via this medium.
   
  Best wishes,
  Geoff Secomb.
  Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brad Behn 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Lowering the Pitch of a Mouthpiece


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