Folks,

I play clarinet mostly but have started picking up my tenor again.

I used to play Bari softs on a metal Link 6.  I still have the reeds 
(they're from the 70s).  I'm now using a metal Yanagasawa (5) Link 
style piece.

The Baris I have seem kind of bad (maybe they're just played to death). 

I've compared them to La Voz medium soft.  The cane reeds are 
definitely better sounding.  Used to be, the Baris were only a tad 
worse than good cane reeds (and way better than most cane reeds). 

I'm asking this question here because I know there are several Fibracel 
users out there. What would be the Fibracel strengths to try on this 
piece? 

Thanks,

M.

If you like synthetic reeds, try the Legere reeds.  They are the best
synthetics out there.  They cost about $15-$20 depending on the
instrument you are buying them for.  They come in quarter-strengths, and
tend to play harder than cane reeds, so if you play a 2-1/2 cane reed
you would probably start with a 2.25 Legere.  They are warranted, which
means if the strength is wrong, you can send it back to Legere for a
different strength.  They are pretty good out of the box, in fact, if
you modify the reed it voids the warranty.  I have found them to play
very well, but not quite as warm a sound as a good cane reed, and not
quite as crisp of a tonguing action.  However, for most kinds of jobs,
especially doubling, they work GREAT because you don't have to worry
about the reed drying out while you're playing the flute part on some
show tune, etc.  http://www.legere.com for more info.  You can get them
from most of the mail order supply houses.
 
Doug H.

-----Original Message-----
From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of msausville
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:50 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracel question


Folks,

I play clarinet mostly but have started picking up my tenor again.

I used to play Bari softs on a metal Link 6.  I still have the reeds 
(they're from the 70s).  I'm now using a metal Yanagasawa (5) Link 
style piece.

The Baris I have seem kind of bad (maybe they're just played to death). 

I've compared them to La Voz medium soft.  The cane reeds are 
definitely better sounding.  Used to be, the Baris were only a tad 
worse than good cane reeds (and way better than most cane reeds). 

I'm asking this question here because I know there are several Fibracel 
users out there. What would be the Fibracel strengths to try on this 
piece? 

Thanks,

M.






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Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on clarinet.  On sax I prefer
Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark, Fibracells somewhere between
them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy.  So I would recommend 2.5
or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I would recommend a
smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But some tenor players are
going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2 is worth exploring.

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My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran a little soft.  
Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a doubling situation.

Dan T

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on clarinet.  On sax I prefer
>Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark, Fibracells somewhere between
>them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy.  So I would recommend 2.5
>or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I would recommend a
>smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But some tenor players are
>going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2 is worth exploring.
>
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I tried the Hartman carbon fiber reeds a few years ago and was impressed.
I've only had one ten minute experience with one, but I recall that it
played very well. Anybody have comments? 


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-----Original Message-----
From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Torosian
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 5:34 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question

My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran a little soft.  
Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a doubling situation.

Dan T

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on clarinet.  On sax I 
>prefer Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark, Fibracells 
>somewhere between them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy.  So 
>I would recommend 2.5 or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, 
>I would recommend a smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But 
>some tenor players are going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2
is worth exploring.
>
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I switched to Fibracell Premium over the whole range (satb + Bb clar). Best results are on sop & tenor. They are similar to LaVoz or Vando ZZ in sound and feeling. On tenor, I play Fibracell 3.5; I used to play ZZ 3.5 and LaVoz MH. The chart on www.fibracell.com is pretty accurate.
I agree with Keith's remark: soft Fibracells tend to buzz, specially if you blow hard. You'll have to find the right balance.
                                                   db

----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:33:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question

My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran a little soft.  
Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a doubling situation.

Dan T

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on clarinet.  On sax I prefer
>Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark, Fibracells somewhere between
>them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy.  So I would recommend 2.5
>or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I would recommend a
>smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But some tenor players are
>going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2 is worth exploring.
>
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I have used fibracells in the past and found that they
are unresponsive in the altissimo range, but they
sound good in the standard range. I also use La Voz MH
on almost everything (Vandoren 3.5 on clarinet). Are
the fibracell premiums more responsive? I'm not
looking for a brighter sound a la Lenny Picket; I'd
just like the altissimo to speak similarly to the way
it does on cane. Any thoughts?

Kevin

--- David Burckhardt <dburckhardt@...> wrote:

> I switched to Fibracell Premium over the whole range
> (satb + Bb clar). Best results are on sop & tenor.
> They are similar to LaVoz or Vando ZZ in sound and
> feeling. On tenor, I play Fibracell 3.5; I used to
> play ZZ 3.5 and LaVoz MH. The chart on
> www.fibracell.com is pretty accurate.
> I agree with Keith's remark: soft Fibracells tend to
> buzz, specially if you blow hard. You'll have to
> find the right balance.
>                                                   
> db
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:33:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question
> 
> My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran
> a little soft.  
> Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a
> doubling situation.
> 
> Dan T
> 
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
> 
> >Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on
> clarinet.  On sax I prefer
> >Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark,
> Fibracells somewhere between
> >them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy. 
> So I would recommend 2.5
> >or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I
> would recommend a
> >smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But
> some tenor players are
> >going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2
> is worth exploring.
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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Hi Kevin,
I'm so much used to them that I don't feel any specific difficulty with altissimo. But you could be right: Fibracells actually might need more support and "drive" up there. But they are more "predictable" than cane. If it works today, it will also tomorrow. I don't really know the difference between Standard and Premium, as I only find the Premiums here in Europe, and even those with some difficulty.                                  db

----- Original Message ----
From: Kevin Goss <male_saxist@...>
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 5:30:04 PM
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question

I have used fibracells in the past and found that they
are unresponsive in the altissimo range, but they
sound good in the standard range. I also use La Voz MH
on almost everything (Vandoren 3.5 on clarinet). Are
the fibracell premiums more responsive? I'm not
looking for a brighter sound a la Lenny Picket; I'd
just like the altissimo to speak similarly to the way
it does on cane. Any thoughts?

Kevin

--- David Burckhardt <dburckhardt@...> wrote:

> I switched to Fibracell Premium over the whole range
> (satb + Bb clar). Best results are on sop & tenor.
> They are similar to LaVoz or Vando ZZ in sound and
> feeling. On tenor, I play Fibracell 3.5; I used to
> play ZZ 3.5 and LaVoz MH. The chart on
> www.fibracell.com is pretty accurate.
> I agree with Keith's remark: soft Fibracells tend to
> buzz, specially if you blow hard. You'll have to
> find the right balance.
>                                                   
> db
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
> To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:33:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question
> 
> My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran
> a little soft.  
> Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a
> doubling situation.
> 
> Dan T
> 
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
> 
> >Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on
> clarinet.  On sax I prefer
> >Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark,
> Fibracells somewhere between
> >them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy. 
> So I would recommend 2.5
> >or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I
> would recommend a
> >smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But
> some tenor players are
> >going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2
> is worth exploring.
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
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Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond that,
good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
that chirp easier).

One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing they
get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig. 
Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
warming up.

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I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, etc.) 
synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred under 
a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this 
because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory 
system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any 
other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane reeds 
with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc. 
etc.).

Dan T

Keith Bradbury wrote:

>Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond that,
>good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
>that chirp easier).
>
>One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing they
>get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
>then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig. 
>Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
>warming up.
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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I use the Ridenour system on Fibracell reeds. I no longer use cane.

I was able to turn a bunch of old Fibracell dogs that I had been saving into
good players - I'd say the Ridenour system has already paid for itself.

I've occasionally even had success clipping Fibracell reeds and then using
the Ridenour system with them. Although my clipper seems to be getting dull
from clipping kevlar and it is becoming difficult to get a clean cut.

Re reed chirping: When there's more resistance on one corner of the reed
than the other, this creates torque on the reed and abnormal modes of
vibration. Ridenour's system addresses this issue.

Barry



> I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, etc.)
> synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred under
> a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this
> because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory
> system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any
> other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane reeds
> with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc.
> etc.).
>
> Dan T
>
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
>
>>Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond that,
>>good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
>>that chirp easier).
>>
>>One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing they
>>get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
>>then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig.
>>Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
>>warming up.
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
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>>
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> Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>>
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> GcDWRqZqAONmoGw> Saxophone
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Saxopho
ne&w3=Sop
>
rano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.sig=j1qd
lK1MeuDaT
> Op8TqdrOw> Soprano saxophone
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Soprano+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2
=Saxophon
>
e&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.
sig=xsGcV
> 7JxpvRiIn1EAyh2iw> Tenor saxophone
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tenor+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
axophone&
>
w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.si
g=BGSWr9R
> vCtmH_IKyc2llcA> Clarinet mouthpiece
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1=Wind+instrument&
w2=Saxoph
>
one&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5
&.sig=tFr
> DLsKSBrG1C63m48jxaw>
>
>
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>
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------Excellent news! Thanks - I'll give it a try.  
  
Dan T  
  
Barry Levine wrote:  

>
>     I use the Ridenour system on Fibracell reeds. I no longer use cane. I
>     was able to turn a bunch of old Fibracell dogs that I had been saving
> into
>     good players - I'd say the Ridenour system has already paid for itself.
> I've
>     occasionally even had success clipping Fibracell reeds and then using
> the
>     Ridenour system with them. Although my clipper seems to be getting dull
> from
>     clipping kevlar and it is becoming difficult to get a clean cut. Re reed
>     chirping: When there's more resistance on one corner of the reed than
> the
>     other, this creates torque on the reed and abnormal modes of vibration.
>     Ridenour's system addresses this issue. Barry
>

>>

>>     I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing,

>>     etc.) synthetic reeds. I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred
under

>>     a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this
because

>>     it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory system).
Haven't

>>     worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any other
synthetics. BTW,

>>     I've been having very good success on cane reeds with the Ridenour reed

>>     finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc. etc.). Dan T Keith
Bradbury

>>     wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>     Fibracells are OK for the

>>>     first octave of altissimo on tenor. Beyond that, good cane can be
better.

>>>     Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones that chirp easier).
One

>>>     problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing they
get a

>>>     tad softer. If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like, then
you

>>>     will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig. Then
you go for

>>>     altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were warming up.

>>>     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of

>>>     spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>>>     Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to
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>>>     Visit the site at 

>>>     to see the

>>  
>>  
>>     Files, Photos and Bookmarks

>>     relating to Mouthpiece Work.

>>

>>>

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>>>     see and modify your groups, go to 

>>>     Yahoo! Groups Links

>>  
>>  
>>      Got a Mouthpiece Work

>>     question? Send it to
[MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)

>>     Visit the site at 

>>     to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work. To
see and

>>     modify your groups, go to 

>>     SPONSORED LINKS Wind instrument

>  
>  
>
> <[http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Wind+instrument&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=S](http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Wind+instrument&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=S)
>     axophone&
>  
>  
>
> w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4;=Tenor+saxophone&w5;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c;=5&s;5&.si
>     g=2UP4HwL
>

>>

>>     GcDWRqZqAONmoGw>

>>     Saxophone

>  
>  
>
> <[http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=Saxopho](http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=Saxopho)
>     ne&w3;=Sop
>  
>  
>
> rano+saxophone&w4;=Tenor+saxophone&w5;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c;=5&s;5&.sig=j1qd
>     lK1MeuDaT
>

>>

>>     Op8TqdrOw> Soprano

>>     saxophone

>  
>  
>
> <[http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Soprano+saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;](http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Soprano+saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;)
>     =Saxophon
>  
>  
>
> e&w3;=Soprano+saxophone&w4;=Tenor+saxophone&w5;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c;=5&s;5&.
>     sig=xsGcV
>

>>

>>     7JxpvRiIn1EAyh2iw>

>>     Tenor saxophone

>  
>  
>
> <[http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Tenor+saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=S](http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Tenor+saxophone&w1;=Wind+instrument&w2;=S)
>     axophone&
>  
>  
>
> w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4;=Tenor+saxophone&w5;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c;=5&s;5&.si
>     g=BGSWr9R
>

>>

>>     vCtmH_IKyc2llcA>

>>     Clarinet mouthpiece

>  
>  
>
> <[http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1;=Wind+instrument&](http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1;=Wind+instrument&)
>     w2=Saxoph
>  
>  
>
> one&w3;=Soprano+saxophone&w4;=Tenor+saxophone&w5;=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c;=5&s;5
>     &.sig=tFr
>

>>

>>     DLsKSBrG1C63m48jxaw>

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> 
>  

I use Fibracell's exclusively - I've had no problems with altissimo, 
but I may just have gotten used to them (lately I've been playing 
alto primarily, especially since my Tenor was stolen... :-(

I haven't played a cane reed in years, so I can't really compare 
playing altissimo on cane vs. on Fibracell.

I, too, have noticed that the Fibracell's get a tad softer after the 
first rehearsal/gig... bummer, since I just bought 10 of them

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@...> wrote:
>
> Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  
Beyond that,
> good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips 
(the ones
> that chirp easier).
> 
> One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy 
playing they
> get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you 
like,
> then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the 
gig. 
> Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you 
were
> warming up.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Ok, I've done a search on this group without any luck... what is 
the "Ridenour reed system"?

thx,
Pete

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...> 
wrote:
>
> I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, 
etc.) 
> synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred 
under 
> a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do 
this 
> because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory 
> system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience 
with any 
> other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane 
reeds 
> with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, 
etc. 
> etc.).
> 
> Dan T
> 
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
> 
> >Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  
Beyond that,
> >good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips 
(the ones
> >that chirp easier).
> >
> >One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy 
playing they
> >get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you 
like,
> >then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the 
gig. 
> >Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when 
you were
> >warming up.
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> >http://mail.yahoo.com 
> >
> >
> >
> >Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to 
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to 
see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> >To see and modify your groups, go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
>

This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------see:  
  
  
and also  
[http://www.wwbw.com/Ridenour- Professional-ATG-Reed-Finishing-
System-i133320.music](http://www.wwbw.com/Ridenour-Professional-ATG-

Reed-Finishing-System-i133320.music)  
  
  
Peter Rawlings wrote:  

>
>     Ok, I've done a search on this group without any luck... what is the
>     "Ridenour reed system"? thx, Pete \--- In
> [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com),
>     Dan Torosian [](mailto:dtorosian@...) wrote:
>

>>

>>     I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting

>>     (balancing,

>  
>  
>     etc.)
>

>>

>>     synthetic reeds. I have a regular Fibracell which

>>     seemed to shred

>  
>  
>     under
>

>>

>>     a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since

>>     heard that one shouldn't do

>  
>  
>     this
>  
>

>>

>>     because it releases fibers that

>>     can be harmful to the respiratory system). Haven't worked on Legeres,
and

>>     haven't had experience

>  
>  
>     with any
>  
>

>>

>>     other synthetics. BTW, I've been

>>     having very good success on cane

>  
>  
>     reeds
>

>>

>>     with the

>>     Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way,

>  
>  
>     etc.
>

>>

>>     etc.). Dan T Keith Bradbury wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>     Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.

>>>  
>  
>  
>     Beyond that,
>

>> >

>>>     good cane can

>>>     be better. Especially the cuts with thinner tips

>  
>  
>     (the ones
>

>> >

>>>     that chirp easier). One problem with

>>>     Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy

>  
>  
>     playing they
>

>> >

>>>     get a tad softer. If you dont start out

>>>     slightly stiffer than you

>  
>  
>     like,
>

>> >

>>>     then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in

>>>     the

>  
>  
>     gig.
>

>> >

>>>     Then you go for

>>>     altissimo and it does not work like it did when

>  
>  
>     you were
>

>> >

>>>     warming up.

>>>     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of

>>>     spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
 Got a

>>>     Mouthpiece Work question? Send it to

>  
>  
>     [MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com](mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com)
>  
>

>> >

>>>     Visit

>>>     the site at 

>>>     to

>  
>  
>     see the Files,
>     Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>

>> >

>>>     To see and modify your

>>>     groups, go to

>  
>  
>     
>  
>

>> >

>>>     Yahoo!

>>>     Groups Links

>  
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>     is just a click away.  Make Yahoo! your home page now.
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> 
>  

> Ok, I've done a search on this group without any luck... what is 
> the "Ridenour reed system"?
>
> thx,
> Pete
>

Mr. Ridenour has developed a way of balancing reeds to get them to play
better. One has to learn how to play-test a reed for imbalances, and then
use his tool and method to correct it. Learning to test a play-reed by his
method takes some practice to develop the skill, though. But it really is
amazing - when you find a reed that's obviously unbalanced and plays badly,
and correct it - what a difference!

He discusses balancing reeds here:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/adjusting.htm

His kit is a package including an instructional DVD in which he demonstrates
the method, an explanatory booklet, a piece of heavy glass plate to work on,
a sanding block of his own design and a few sheets of fine abrasive that fit
the block.

He touts the system here:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/ATG1.html

Here's a well-written example of one buyer's response:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2004/09/000258.txt

I think it's slightly less expensive at www.wwbw.com, but at about $70,
pretty pricey. IMO well worth it, though. I still have problems with some
reeds, but I can do much more to get them to play well; it's very
empowering.

Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in Larry
Teal's book?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

> Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in Larry
> Teal's book?

I think the chart in the Teal book is a somewhat useful guide to adjusting
the tonal balance of a reed.

With Ridenour, I think the idea is that AFTER you've found a brand of reed
that has a tonal balance you like, THEN you use his system to precisely
finish the reeds so they will play very well; and (an important point) with
reduced effort on the player's part.

Ridenour's primary method is to balance uneven resistance across the tip of
the reed, detected by tooting the reed while damping one rail and then the
other. This is a player-driven active process that relies on how the reed
feels and responds when play-testing it.

As noted earlier, this is described in some detail here:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/adjusting.htm

There's nothing like this in the Teal book.

Aside from the side-to-side balancing, his adjustment method and tool also
take cares of small irregularities in the cane that the reed cutting
machines leave behind, that compromise the reed's ability to vibrate freely.

Using Teals chart, I find that Ridenour's methodology can be adapted to
adjust the tonal balance of a reed; for example I've used it to take off
material from the base of the vamp to lighten up a very heavy-blowing reed.
But he doesn't really discuss this kind of thing. Sanding the rails also
remains a useful expedient, as well as (probably) polishing the bottom of a
reed (can't do that to a Fibracell).

> Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in Larry
> Teal's book?

Another thing worth mentioning is that, compared to Ridenour's method,
using a knife blade or dutch rush on an area of the reed is as likely to
introduce irregularities in the surface of the reed as correct them.

After I learned and started using his method, my reaction was, "Gee, this is
so simple and obvious, why didn't I think of it?"  But I think there is real
genius in the way he put together lots of pieces of knowledge and common
sense to come up with his system.

Is the the side to side dampening technique the same as taught by Joe Allard? 

thanks

michael 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Levine 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Ridenour Reed Adj


  > Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in Larry
  > Teal's book?

  Another thing worth mentioning is that, compared to Ridenour's method,
  using a knife blade or dutch rush on an area of the reed is as likely to
  introduce irregularities in the surface of the reed as correct them.

  After I learned and started using his method, my reaction was, "Gee, this is
  so simple and obvious, why didn't I think of it?"  But I think there is real
  genius in the way he put together lots of pieces of knowledge and common
  sense to come up with his system.


  Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

  Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

  To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 



  SPONSORED LINKS Wind instrument  Saxophone  Soprano saxophone  
        Tenor saxophone  Clarinet mouthpiece  


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me it is just the opposite... Fibracells respond well for me in the 
altissimo.  So well that on alto and soprano, you cannot tell the 
difference in my tone from the palm key notes into the altissimo, you 
can't hear "the break".  It just sounds higher.

On tenor there is a little change in tone.

As far as the "buzz", most of that is quite literally in your head.  
There is a little more "reed slap", and that tone is conducted through 
your teeth.  I have not found a listener yet who could tell when I was 
playing a Fibracell vs cane.  In fact, I have had players not be able to 
tell THEY were playing Fibracell, just that it was a "good reed".

Paul

Kevin Goss wrote:

> I have used fibracells in the past and found that they
> are unresponsive in the altissimo range, but they
> sound good in the standard range. I also use La Voz MH
> on almost everything (Vandoren 3.5 on clarinet). Are
> the fibracell premiums more responsive? I'm not
> looking for a brighter sound a la Lenny Picket; I'd
> just like the altissimo to speak similarly to the way
> it does on cane. Any thoughts?
>
> Kevin
>
> --- David Burckhardt <dburckhardt@...> wrote:
>
> > I switched to Fibracell Premium over the whole range
> > (satb + Bb clar). Best results are on sop & tenor.
> > They are similar to LaVoz or Vando ZZ in sound and
> > feeling. On tenor, I play Fibracell 3.5; I used to
> > play ZZ 3.5 and LaVoz MH. The chart on
> > www.fibracell.com is pretty accurate.
> > I agree with Keith's remark: soft Fibracells tend to
> > buzz, specially if you blow hard. You'll have to
> > find the right balance.
> >                                                  
> > db
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Dan Torosian <dtorosian@...>
> > To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 1:33:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Fibracell question
> >
> > My experience with clarinet Legeres is that they ran
> > a little soft. 
> > Worked OK, though, probably a good choice for a
> > doubling situation.
> >
> > Dan T
> >
> > Keith Bradbury wrote:
> >
> > >Legeres are worth checking out.  I use them on
> > clarinet.  On sax I prefer
> > >Fibracells.  Baris are bright, Legeres dark,
> > Fibracells somewhere between
> > >them.  Soft synthetic reeds can get really buzzy.
> > So I would recommend 2.5
> > >or harder in a Fibracell.  If 2.5 seems too hard, I
> > would recommend a
> > >smaller tip mouthpiece so you can use a 2.5.  But
> > some tenor players are
> > >going after this open, buzzy concept.  For them a 2
> > is worth exploring.
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
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> > >
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> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to
> > Mouthpiece Work.
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
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You cannot adjust Fibracells.  There is no way for us, the consumer, to 
cut, adjust, trim a Fibracell with ordinary methods.  Do not try to clip 
a Fibracell, it will just damage your reed trimmer.

I have adjusted BARI and Legeres, no problem.  I use 600 grit silicon 
carbide paper.

Paul

Dan Torosian wrote:

> I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, etc.)
> synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred under
> a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this
> because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory
> system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any
> other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane reeds
> with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc.
> etc.).
>
> Dan T
>
> Keith Bradbury wrote:
>
> >Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond 
> that,
> >good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
> >that chirp easier).
> >
> >One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing 
> they
> >get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
> >then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig.
> >Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
> >warming up.
> >
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I have seen Tom Ridenour adjust reeds with his system.

First, DO NOT make the mistake of thinking you are paying too much for a 
few simple tools and a tape.  You are not buying those... you are buying 
a method.  You are taking a lesson via the tape.  You are buying a way 
to make nearly 100% of your reeds playable.

Tom is one of the most logically thinking artists I have met.  So many 
artists are "artsy-fartsy"... and don't have a clue as to the mechanics 
of playing.  You will get vague advice like "practice more".  Well, if 
you aren't practicing the right thing, well, as they say, practice makes 
perfect.  And you perfect your mistakes.

Here's a good Tom Ridenour quote:  "A reed only has to do four things.  
It has to play low and it has to play high.  It has to play softly and 
it has to play loudly.  If the reed will do those four things, it will 
do everything you need it to do.  In my method I give you some simple 
playing tests to determine this, and a way to correct any shortcomings."

There, that is the kind of thing you can "hang your hat on".  I have had 
some invaluable conversations with Tom.  For me, Tom is among the guys I 
respect most.

Paul

Dan Torosian wrote:

> Excellent news! Thanks - I'll give it a try.
>
> Dan T
>
> Barry Levine wrote:
>
>>I use the Ridenour system on Fibracell reeds. I no longer use cane.
>>
>>I was able to turn a bunch of old Fibracell dogs that I had been saving into
>>good players - I'd say the Ridenour system has already paid for itself.
>>
>>I've occasionally even had success clipping Fibracell reeds and then using
>>the Ridenour system with them. Although my clipper seems to be getting dull
>>from clipping kevlar and it is becoming difficult to get a clean cut.
>>
>>Re reed chirping: When there's more resistance on one corner of the reed
>>than the other, this creates torque on the reed and abnormal modes of
>>vibration. Ridenour's system addresses this issue.
>>
>>Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, etc.)
>>>synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred under
>>>a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this
>>>because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory
>>>system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any
>>>other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane reeds
>>>with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc.
>>>etc.).
>>>
>>>Dan T
>>>
>>>Keith Bradbury wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond that,
>>>>good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
>>>>that chirp easier).
>>>>
>>>>One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing they
>>>>get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
>>>>then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig.
>>>>Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
>>>>warming up.
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________
>>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
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>>>>      
>>>>
>>>Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
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>>>
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>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wind+instrument&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
>>axophone&
>>  
>>
>>w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.si
>>g=2UP4HwL
>>  
>>
>>>GcDWRqZqAONmoGw> Saxophone
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Saxopho
>>ne&w3=Sop
>>  
>>
>>rano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.sig=j1qd
>>lK1MeuDaT
>>  
>>
>>>Op8TqdrOw> Soprano saxophone
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Soprano+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2
>>=Saxophon
>>  
>>
>>e&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.
>>sig=xsGcV
>>  
>>
>>>7JxpvRiIn1EAyh2iw> Tenor saxophone
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tenor+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
>>axophone&
>>  
>>
>>w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.si
>>g=BGSWr9R
>>  
>>
>>>vCtmH_IKyc2llcA> Clarinet mouthpiece
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1=Wind+instrument&
>>w2=Saxoph
>>  
>>
>>one&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5
>>&.sig=tFr
>>  
>>
>>>DLsKSBrG1C63m48jxaw>
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>

> You cannot adjust Fibracells.  There is no way for us, the consumer, to 
> cut, adjust, trim a Fibracell with ordinary methods.  Do not try to clip
> a Fibracell, it will just damage your reed trimmer.

It is possible to clip a Fibracell, but almost more trouble than it's worth.

The little actuating arm on a reed trimmer is not strong enough to use, as
these reeds are very tough (kevlar-resin composite). Using this will just
damage the reed trimmer as Paul said.

I lay the trimmer flat on a work surface while it holds the reed, and whack
the trimming blade down to make the cut, using a small hammer and a piece of
5/8" diameter steel rod.

A brand new Rigotti tenor trimmer worked quite well at first, but after
about 15 cuts, it fails to shear through some of the kevlar fibers, so the
reed appears to have a "hairy tip" after trimming. These can be cut by a
steady hand and small sharp scissors, but it's dicey.

So repeated use will make the reed trimmer duller. So far, the Rigotti still
works ok on cane.

A 25 y/o Cordier tenor reed trimmer was just not sharp enough at all to make
a good cut on a Fibracell. A newer Cordier soprano trimmer does pretty well,
leaving a few short kevlar hairs that don't seem to adversely affect
playability.

Ridenour's method works quite well for adjusting, or, to be more precise,
"finishing" Fibracell reeds. At almost $10 a pop, it's especially annoying
to get a Fibracell that plays badly, and some do.

It's also possible to sand the rails of a Fibracell. The reed has to be slid
on the paper so that the bottom membrane leads and is cut first, instead of
being pulled away from the reed.

My concern with adjusting them would be that the fibers/dust are not healthy.  It's possible to sand the tops of them but I would avoid it.  The methods used are no different really than those used to build fiberglass/kevlar/carbon bound wood boats.


Ed Svoboda
www.chicagomouthpieces.com

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
> You cannot adjust Fibracells.  There is no way for us, the consumer, to 
> cut, adjust, trim a Fibracell with ordinary methods.  Do not try to clip 
> a Fibracell, it will just damage your reed trimmer.
> 
> I have adjusted BARI and Legeres, no problem.  I use 600 grit silicon 
> carbide paper.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Dan Torosian wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to know anyone's experience with adjusting (balancing, etc.)
> > synthetic reeds.  I have a regular Fibracell which seemed to shred under
> > a reed knife or sandpaper (I've since heard that one shouldn't do this
> > because it releases fibers that can be harmful to the respiratory
> > system).  Haven't worked on Legeres, and haven't had experience with any
> > other synthetics.  BTW, I've been having very good success on cane reeds
> > with the Ridenour reed finishing system (not affiliated in any way, etc.
> > etc.).
> >
> > Dan T
> >
> > Keith Bradbury wrote:
> >
> > >Fibracells are OK for the first octave of altissimo on tenor.  Beyond 
> > that,
> > >good cane can be better.  Especially the cuts with thinner tips (the ones
> > >that chirp easier).
> > >
> > >One problem with Fibracells is that after 20 minutes of heavy playing 
> > they
> > >get a tad softer.  If you dont start out slightly stiffer than you like,
> > >then you will end up with a reed softer than you like later in the gig.
> > >Then you go for altissimo and it does not work like it did when you were
> > >warming up.
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > >http://mail.yahoo.com
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> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
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> hone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.s
> ig=2UP4HwLGcDWRqZqAONmoGw> 
> > 	Saxophone 
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Saxophone&w
> 3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.sig=j1q
> dlK1MeuDaTOp8TqdrOw> 
> > 	Soprano saxophone 
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Soprano+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Sax
> ophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&
> .sig=xsGcV7JxpvRiIn1EAyh2iw> 
> >
> > Tenor saxophone 
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tenor+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Saxop
> hone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&.s
> ig=BGSWr9RvCtmH_IKyc2llcA> 
> > 	Clarinet mouthpiece 
> > 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
> axophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s
> 5&.sig=tFrDLsKSBrG1C63m48jxaw> 
> >
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> My concern with adjusting them would be that the fibers/dust are not 
> healthy.  It's possible to sand the tops of them but I would avoid it.  The
> methods used are no different really than those used to build
> fiberglass/kevlar/carbon bound wood boats.

Probably true. However the amount of material one removes is generally so
tiny (as opposed to the dust flying while working on a boat using a power
tool) that I can't see this as a seious health hazard.

I'm more worried about the years I spent playing in smoke-filled bars.

Yes.  Tom's method of adjusting is far easier, far faster.  You don't 
need a chart.

Paul Coats

Keith Bradbury wrote:

> Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in Larry
> Teal's book?
>
> __________________________________________________
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>

 I agree that this is  the best method I've run across to adjust reeds so
that they play. I've been using the method for several months and find that
I can make most reeds playable and they seem to last a long time. I keep the
reeds clean, in reed holders and inside a 70 % humidity area (cigar
humidor). I wish I had this method about 50 years ago and I would have saved
a lot on reeds. I used to buy a box of 25 Ricos and throw away about 20 of
them. Thanks to Tom Ridenour, the players will be much happier and the reed
suppliers will sell less. Maybe that will make the reed price go down.

Phil Patton
Port Orchard, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Coats
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:30 PM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Ridenour Reed Adj

Yes.  Tom's method of adjusting is far easier, far faster.  You don't need a
chart.

Paul Coats

Keith Bradbury wrote:


	Can anyone comment on Ridenour's methods vs. using the chart in
Larry
	Teal's book?
	
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SPONSORED LINKS 
Wind instrument
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Wind+instrument&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
axophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&
s5&.sig=2UP4HwLGcDWRqZqAONmoGw>  	Saxophone
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=Saxopho
ne&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&s5&
.sig=j1qdlK1MeuDaTOp8TqdrOw>  	Soprano saxophone
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Soprano+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2
=Saxophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c5&s5&.sig=xsGcV7JxpvRiIn1EAyh2iw>  	
Tenor saxophone
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tenor+saxophone&w1=Wind+instrument&w2=S
axophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&c=5&
s5&.sig=BGSWr9RvCtmH_IKyc2llcA>  	Clarinet mouthpiece
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Clarinet+mouthpiece&w1=Wind+instrument&
w2=Saxophone&w3=Soprano+saxophone&w4=Tenor+saxophone&w5=Clarinet+mouthpiece&
c=5&s5&.sig=tFrDLsKSBrG1C63m48jxaw>  	

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