Players definately "feel" a difference in material.  Plastic, wood, HR 
metal...  This may translate into having some influence on a 
performance.

I have never seen a well-designed, controlled, blind test that 
concludes that material matters to a listener.  I have seen a few 
papers that conclude that it does not matter.  There is a Link to one 
in the Links - Literature section on the site.  Here it is:

http://hal9000.ps.uci.edu/Does%20Saxophone%20Mouthpiece%20Material%
20Matter.doc.pdf

I'm not convinced either way.  But I think it matters a lot, lot less 
than what most people think.  Less than 2%.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury" 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
>
> Players definately "feel" a difference in material.  Plastic, wood, 
HR 
> metal...  This may translate into having some influence on a 
> performance.
> 
> I have never seen a well-designed, controlled, blind test that 
> concludes that material matters to a listener.  I have seen a few 
> papers that conclude that it does not matter.  There is a Link to one 
> in the Links - Literature section on the site.  Here it is:
> 
> http://hal9000.ps.uci.edu/Does%20Saxophone%20Mouthpiece%20Material%
> 20Matter.doc.pdf
> 
> I'm not convinced either way.  But I think it matters a lot, lot less 
> than what most people think.  Less than 2%.
>

Thanks for the interesting link, i will send my CV there... in my 
department nobody is able to play any kind of music. They are very nice 
scientists and I hope jazz players but that manuscript appears to be 
not published yet. To make a perfect test IMHO they should measure the 
modes of vibration of two identical mouthpieces with some more 
sophisticated technique like pulsed spekle pattern interferometry or 
similar. 
The mouthpiece excitation should be controlled in some way like many 
people made for violins during the last 10 years. However the work is 
really interesting and this exploration needs to be continued... (LOL I 
am speaking like a referee...)
Based on rough consideration I can say that there is a difference that 
any good player can hear between two supposed identical mouthpieces 
made with the same material... that means it is very hard to make 
comparisons in this field but I really apreciated the efforts in 
writing that nice manuscript.
Finally I really don't like the way my plastic mouthpieces play but 
they have a great ratio quality/price.
All the best,

Dan

I wanted to echo that I have had similar experiances as Paul with the 
Runyon Delrin vs Metal Mouthpieces.  I need to revise my stated 
opinion.  Material can matter a lot if the material is 
flexible "enough" and the beak is thin enough. (This is not the case 
with most sax mouthpieces.)

The Delrin Quantum has a bratty tone to the lower notes that reminds me 
of a bassoon.  The metal Quantum does not.  I can envision the thin 
beak vibrating like a bassoon reed.  The XL/Smoothbore does not have 
the same effect (thicker beak design).  I have not played a Morgan 
Excaliber vs a regular Morgan.  Wood sometimes feels/plays very 
resonant ("woody") but sometimes just feels like plastic or HR.  
Depends on the tree too I guess.

But to me all metals and all platings are the same.  They are all 
similarly hard for a difference to be heard.

I have Morgan 8L (Jazz) and 8EL (Excalibur)pieces that I got at the
same time. I have measured the facings and chamber/chamber volumes and
these are identical in every way inside, but they sound radically
different. The Excalibur can be downright painful to play loud without
a thick mouthpiece patch (I have sensitive old teeth and like to use
the thin mylar patches for all but this piece). Response is very
similar however.\
\
--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury"
<mojomouthpiecework@y...> wrote:
>
> I wanted to echo that I have had similar experiances as Paul with the 
> Runyon Delrin vs Metal Mouthpieces.  I need to revise my stated 
> opinion.  Material can matter a lot if the material is 
> flexible "enough" and the beak is thin enough. (This is not the case 
> with most sax mouthpieces.)
> 
> The Delrin Quantum has a bratty tone to the lower notes that reminds me 
> of a bassoon.  The metal Quantum does not.  I can envision the thin 
> beak vibrating like a bassoon reed.  The XL/Smoothbore does not have 
> the same effect (thicker beak design).  I have not played a Morgan 
> Excaliber vs a regular Morgan.  Wood sometimes feels/plays very 
> resonant ("woody") but sometimes just feels like plastic or HR.  
> Depends on the tree too I guess.
> 
> But to me all metals and all platings are the same.  They are all 
> similarly hard for a difference to be heard.
>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sjrosner 
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:28 AM
  Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Re: Does material matter?


  I have Morgan 8L (Jazz) and 8EL (Excalibur)pieces that I got at the
  same time. I have measured the facings and chamber/chamber volumes and
  these are identical in every way inside, but they sound radically
  different. The Excalibur can be downright painful to play loud without
  a thick mouthpiece patch (I have sensitive old teeth and like to use
  the thin mylar patches for all but this piece). Response is very
  similar however.\
  It is not simply a question of chamber volumes, but internal geometry. A difference of 1/100 of an inch or less at the baffle near the tip rail, for instance, can radically change the response of a mpc without materially affecting the internal volume. Very slight differences in baffle height can change the character of a mpc by affecting the composition of partials, etc. Even farther down, internal volumes can be the same even if geometries differ markedly.

  Phil Barone has stated repeatedly that when the dimensions of the mpcs he makes are similar they sound the same, whether made of wood or metal or hard rubber. I know that goes against what other makers such as Ralph Morgan say, but that is his experience. In terms of Delrin vs. metal Runyons, I would say that before any judgement can be made about differences materials make, one would have to measure the dimensions extremely carefully to rule out geometry. It should also be remembered that different materials feel very different to the player, and this can have a large effect on how the player/mpc system interacts, leading to different sounds, including different "feedback" effects based on differing bone conduction of the sound vibrations.

  FWIW,

  Toby 

  \
  --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bradbury"
  <mojomouthpiecework@y...> wrote:
  >
  > I wanted to echo that I have had similar experiances as Paul with the 
  > Runyon Delrin vs Metal Mouthpieces.  I need to revise my stated 
  > opinion.  Material can matter a lot if the material is 
  > flexible "enough" and the beak is thin enough. (This is not the case 
  > with most sax mouthpieces.)
  > 
  > The Delrin Quantum has a bratty tone to the lower notes that reminds me 
  > of a bassoon.  The metal Quantum does not.  I can envision the thin 
  > beak vibrating like a bassoon reed.  The XL/Smoothbore does not have 
  > the same effect (thicker beak design).  I have not played a Morgan 
  > Excaliber vs a regular Morgan.  Wood sometimes feels/plays very 
  > resonant ("woody") but sometimes just feels like plastic or HR.  
  > Depends on the tree too I guess.
  > 
  > But to me all metals and all platings are the same.  They are all 
  > similarly hard for a difference to be heard.
  >






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