This html message parsed with html2text ---------------------------I've been successfully refacing sax mouthpieces for about a year, having
learned nearly all I know from this newsgroup, and thought I'd post some
observations that may be helpful to those just starting out - kind of a mini
"get started" FAQ. Comments & clarifications are welcome.  
  
**\\- Read all the posts:**  
There's a wealth of knowledge in the archived posts, including the basic
information you need to get started; take the time to wade through them.  
**\\- Measure first:**  
Start out by measuring (glass gauge & feelers, plus calipers/micrometer for
tip opening) every mouthpiece you can find. Learn to use the spreadsheet to
compare their measured curves to calculated radial curves.  
**\\- The radial curve:**  
In a recent post, Keith said that a radial curve is hard to beat for a sax
mouthpiece. Heed these words. The spreadsheet (in the files section?) is a
great tool for quickly calculating any radial curve. For clarinet, many great-
playing mouthpieces are not radial; most of these seem to have a flat area in
the middle of the curve.  
**\\- Flattening the table:**  
Super important, super simple in concept, not always easy to execute well.
Like learning to play the blues. And sometimes just as sad...  
**\\- Craft vs. concept:**  
Accurately executing your facing plan for the mouthpiece is the real important
skill. I have sometimes play-tested a mouthpiece as the measurements were
approaching the (radial) targets, and been dismayed at how badly it played. As
I got the measurements accurate, the piece would play great - sometimes
there's a big difference between having the numbers be close, and having them
be right on. The concept (if you're using a radial curve) is straightforward,
but executing it takes a bunch of practice. Try to get hold of chipped, banged
up, or just bad-playing mouthpieces to practice on.  
**\\- Advice from experienced refacers:**  
If you read the posts, you'll probably find one or more experienced refacers
whose thinking and working style matches your own. Get to know whose advice
works best for you.  
**\\- Tools:**  
You can probably get started for $100. Plate glass (1/4" or thicker), fine
sandpaper (400-1500 grit), glass gauge, feeler gauges, micrometer/calipers,
files. The only specialty piece of equipment here is the glass gauge. Harbor
Freight tools, MicroMark (hobby supplies), and auto parts stores have been
some of my favorite tool sources; many are listed on the newsgroup site.  
**\\- Other observations:**  
-See Keith's post about finishing the mouthpiece blanks - a useful sequence of steps for working.  
-Measure often.  
-Be patient. Be very patient.  
-Start by working on mouthpieces for the instrument you play the most; you'll be better able to judge the results.  
-Don't start working without a well thought out plan.  
**\\- Tricks, mistakes I've learned from, etc:  
**-Marking lines at 10-20-30-40-50 (1/2 mms) on the side of the mouthpiece
helps you see where you're working. On plastic & hard rubber, colored pencil
(yellow) works great; on metal I use a super-fine permanent marker (comes off
with alcohol).  
-If you're going to thin side rails, make sure the outside matches the reed width first. Do this and other "non-facing" work before your facing is finalized. Measurements may change, or you may nick a rail with a file.  
-Same idea with the tip; get the outside shaped to the reed before you start finishing/thinning it.  
-Stop short of your tip opening target and finish the tip rail. If you measure the tip opening from from the inside of the tip rail, your tip opening measurement will increase.  
  
Hope this is useful.  
  
Dan T  

Nice post Dan.  I put a copy of it in the site's Files-Methods area.  I also put a copy of the sequence of rework steps I generally use.

- Read all the posts:
There's a wealth of knowledge in the archived posts, including the basic information you need to get started; take the time to wade through them.

Tedious, yes.  But this is a major purpose of the site.  

- Measure first:
Start out by measuring (glass gauge & feelers, plus calipers/micrometer for tip opening) every mouthpiece you can find.  Learn to use the spreadsheet to compare their measured curves to calculated radial curves.

I did nothing but measure and plot for 3 months.  Measure again until you get a technique that gives you consistent results.


- The radial curve:
In a recent post, Keith said that a radial curve is hard to beat for a sax mouthpiece.  Heed these words.  The spreadsheet (in the files section?) is a great tool for quickly calculating any radial curve.  For clarinet, many great-playing mouthpieces are not radial; most of these seem to have a flat area in the middle of the curve.
- Flattening the table:
Super important, super simple in concept, not always easy to execute well.  Like learning to play the blues.  And sometimes just as sad...

This can be maddening until you master it.  There are some good posts with some tips.  If someone knows where they are, please add them to the Files-Methods section.

- Craft vs. concept:
Accurately executing your facing plan for the mouthpiece is the real important skill.  I have sometimes play-tested a mouthpiece as the measurements were approaching the (radial) targets, and been dismayed at how badly it played.  As I got the measurements accurate, the piece would play great - sometimes there's a big difference between having the numbers be close, and having them be right on.  The concept (if you're using a radial curve) is straightforward, but executing it takes a bunch of practice.  Try to get hold of chipped, banged up, or just bad-playing mouthpieces to practice on.
- Advice from experienced refacers:
If you read the posts, you'll probably find one or more experienced refacers whose thinking and working style matches your own.  Get to know whose advice works best for you.

Just as there is not one mouthpiece design that works for all players,  there is not one best way to rework a mouthpiece.  Also, just as there are a lot of bad mouthpieces out there, there are a lot of bad ways to rework them.


- Tools:
You can probably get started for $100.  Plate glass (1/4" or thicker), fine sandpaper (400-1500 grit), glass gauge, feeler gauges, micrometer/calipers, files.  The only specialty piece of equipment here is the glass gauge.  Harbor Freight tools, MicroMark (hobby supplies), and auto parts stores have been some of my favorite tool sources; many are listed on the newsgroup site.
- Other observations:
-See Keith's post about finishing the mouthpiece blanks - a useful sequence of steps for working.
-Measure often.
-Be patient.  Be very patient.
-Start by working on mouthpieces for the instrument you play the most; you'll be better able to judge the results.
-Don't start working without a well thought out plan.
- Tricks, mistakes I've learned from, etc:
-Marking lines at 10-20-30-40-50 (1/2 mms) on the side of the mouthpiece helps you see where you're working.  On plastic & hard rubber, colored pencil (yellow) works great; on metal I use a super-fine permanent marker (comes off with alcohol).

I occassionally mark certain spots I want to target.  The 10-20-etc idea is a good alternative since you probably get way with using them for the entire job.  You can also color the rails to help see where your last pass has removed material.  I'll have to try the yellow pencil!

-If you're going to thin side rails, make sure the outside matches the reed width first.  Do this and other "non-facing" work before your facing is finalized.  Measurements may change, or you may nick a rail with a file.
-Same idea with the tip; get the outside shaped to the reed before you start finishing/thinning it.
-Stop short of your tip opening target and finish the tip rail.  If you measure the tip opening from from the inside of the tip rail, your tip opening measurement will increase.

Hope this is useful.

Dan T

I thought Dan's "Observations" were well presented, but was a little
surprised by Keith's comment regarding the marking of rails with
colour, presumably wax. Will this not have an adverse effect on the
abrasive sheet? 
I personally use a graphite pencil for this and keep the wax pencil
for the sides only. Perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning intended,
but clarification may be in order.
Regarding the rush to obtain Babbit gauges, I refer those of you who
are short of cash, to my post #3515. If you are skilled enough to
reface MPC's, you should be skilled enough to make your own gauge, or
is this a chicken and egg situation where you need a gauge before you
can learn to reface?      Eddie. 

Colored pencil on the sides of the mouthpiece, to make the 
10-20-30-40-50 gauge markings visible on the mouthpiece itself while 
working on it.  I've never actually marked the rails themselves (the 
part the reed would hit).  I use a yellow pencil, made by (I think) 
Staedtler, an art and drafting supply company.

Dan T

Edward McLean wrote:

>I thought Dan's "Observations" were well presented, but was a little
>surprised by Keith's comment regarding the marking of rails with
>colour, presumably wax. Will this not have an adverse effect on the
>abrasive sheet? 
>I personally use a graphite pencil for this and keep the wax pencil
>for the sides only. Perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning intended,
>but clarification may be in order.
>Regarding the rush to obtain Babbit gauges, I refer those of you who
>are short of cash, to my post #3515. If you are skilled enough to
>reface MPC's, you should be skilled enough to make your own gauge, or
>is this a chicken and egg situation where you need a gauge before you
>can learn to reface?      Eddie. 
>  
>

I do not mark the rails as routine.  Just once in a while as a reality
check.  I can usually see where I just swiped by looking at the rails for a
scuff mark.  No wax, just a "permanent" black felt tip.


		
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