Hello all,

Are there any proponents of asymmetrical facings (I'm primarily 
interested in clarinets) in this chat group?  I've never learned 
anything about them, other than that they provide resistance.  I've 
also not experimented with them, as they just don't make sense to me.  
Also, why fix what isn't broken, as they say.  So, in my mind and in 
all of my learning, I have heard only negative things about them, but 
would love to hear some positive things about them.  There are many 
great players that do play asymmetrical facings, so perhaps there are 
some considerations that I have not thought about.  Thanks a lot!

Ben
www.redwinejazz.com

This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings.  He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "skygardener1"
<skygardener1@...> wrote:
>
> This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
> I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
> mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings.  He said that when he
> was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
> and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
> had an asymmetrical facing.
> Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
> facings???
>

Asymmetrical meaning what? There are a multitude of ways for a facing
to be asymmetrical and only one way for it to be symmetrical. If we
are talking about a flat spot on the curve of the rails there has been
discussion of this being of value in clarinet facings. I have yet to
hear anyone advocate any asymmetry in the height of the rails or the
table in general. This would be useful, I think, only to compensate
for asymmetry in the scrape of the reed, and of course it is much
better to adjust the reed for the mpc than the mpc for the reed...

Toby

It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
   
  Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
   
  You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
   
  I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
   
  Paul Coats

skygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:
          This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
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Yea Paul,
  I agree with you. If the mouthpiece is not even across the raill, the reeds will leak.Unfortunately in the old days and even now depending on the Quality controll coming from the factorys or shop mothpieces are crooked.I always take my tools to a music store when I am checking out pieces.Guys would be surprised at even the real expensive stuff coming out bad,
                   Regards, Mikole E Kaar

"Paul C." <tenorman1952@...> wrote:
            It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
   
  Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
   
  You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
   
  I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
   
  Paul Coats

skygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:
      This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...    
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  

                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "skygardener1" 
<skygardener1@...> wrote:
>
> This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
> I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
> mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings.  He said that when he
> was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
> and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
> had an asymmetrical facing.
> Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
> facings???
>
>I read something once that some of the best players refaced 
mouthpieces had irregularities. And that these pieces my never be 
duplicated.I found this to be true when I refaced my Oleg tenor 
mouthpiece.It's not perfect but it plays great.I'm not sure if this 
what you mean by asymmetrical. But I find when I reface I do a lot by 
feel,and play testing.When it plays great I don't care if it measures 
perfect.

I totally agree with you jim.  Who cares if the numbers don't add up.  If its a great player then that's what it is.


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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

--- arnold montgomery <ammouthpieces@...> wrote:

> I totally agree with you jim.  Who cares if the numbers don't add up.  If
> its a great player then that's what it is.
> 

Ahhhh....  but what if it was symmetrical?      ;)


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Well has I said preivously.  If its a great player, its a great player.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, arnold montgomery 
<ammouthpieces@...> wrote:
>
> Well has I said preivously.  If its a great player, its a great 
player.
> 
> 
>I may be wrong but I think these small irregularities give a piece 
character.I'm not saying we shouldn't try to make them perfect.But if 
it plays great and it's not perfect one more swipe can kill it real 
easy.I have seen some people reface just by the numbers and never play 
test.They reface them and ship then out.To me it's all about how great 
they play not the numbers. 
>
>Jim

 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.
 
 the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.  
 
 so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.
 
 if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated 
  thank you donn.


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: tenorman1952@...te: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings



It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
 
Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
 
You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
 
I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
 
Paul Coatsskygardener1 <skygardener1@yahoo.com> wrote:


This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and hementioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when hewas starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of themhad an asymmetrical facing.Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetricalfacings???Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":http://www.saxgourmet.comListen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from http://www.saxrax.com For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@saxrax.com 


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

Check your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar 

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:          
 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.
 
 the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.  
 
 so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.
 
 if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated 
  thank you donn.

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: tenorman1952@...
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings

  It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
   
  Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
   
  You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
   
  I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
   
  Paul Coats

skygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:
      This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...   
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
  
---------------------------------
  Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail�-get your "fix". Check it out.   

                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

> I may be wrong but I think these small irregularities give a piece 
> character.

I agree with this.  A refacer (and client) takes a risk in "fixing" the
defects he sees.  The irregularities usually add some resistance to the MP
in a unique way.  

Sometimes a player is so used to compensating for irregularities that they
do not appreciate a well faced mouthpiece.   


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> 
wrote  
> 
> Sometimes a player is so used to compensating for irregularities that 
they
> do not appreciate a well faced mouthpiece.   
> 
> 
>Thats a great way to put it Keith.Lets face it a great MP for some is 
not always good for others.Thats way I only reface my own 
mouthpieces.My hat is off to you guys that do this for people.
>Jim

Hey Keith,
  I have always found that evening a mouthpiece up works for the craftsman and the player, just as long as you can figure out which way he,the player needs to go.Shorter ,or longer.I have a guy who likes a certain stylle piece and came to me with some idiosyncracys that I straightend up.When I finished remaking the 1st facing it played great for me, but way to easy for him.After I figured out what he likes I changed my approach and did another 5 pieces for him.He loves them.I don't beleive in crooked mouthpieces.I have had one on alto, and one on clarinet at different.These played ok,but were monodimensional in what I could do with them.Instead of me playing them , I guess you can say they played me.
                         Regards, Mikole E Kaar

Keith Bradbury <kwbradbury@...> wrote:
          
> I may be wrong but I think these small irregularities give a piece 
> character.

I agree with this. A refacer (and client) takes a risk in "fixing" the
defects he sees. The irregularities usually add some resistance to the MP
in a unique way. 

Sometimes a player is so used to compensating for irregularities that they
do not appreciate a well faced mouthpiece. 

__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

     got it!  side c key  had a pinhole leak at about 5 oclock posistion kind of hid by the stack.. just like you said, just enough to throw me a curve.. now back to contentment..for the time being.
 
 problem is i dont have a very good leak light right now. my primary one fell apart.(wont say where i purchased it from) 
 
 i had a problem before with the same key on my soprano. i was starting to think i lost my ability to play. until i detected that pinhole.
 
anyway its always good to ask. thanks for the response   donn..


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:15:18 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak


Check your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar "d_corp60@hotmail.com ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote: 


 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.  the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.    so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.  if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated   thank you donn.


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: tenorman1952@...: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings
It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
 
Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
 
You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
 
I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
 
Paul Coatsskygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:


This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and hementioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when hewas starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of themhad an asymmetrical facing.Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetricalfacings???Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":http://www.saxgourmet.comListen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from http://www.saxrax.com For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... 

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out. 

Mikole E. Kaar http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.  
_________________________________________________________________
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Hey Don,
  You're welcome.If You can find a guy that does electronics or amp repair, and if you give him a cheep florescent lamp with the long skinny bulb, he will be ablle to make you a leek light.
                      Mikole Kaar

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:
          
     got it!  side c key  had a pinhole leak at about 5 oclock posistion kind of hid by the stack.. just like you said, just enough to throw me a curve.. now back to contentment..for the time being.
 
 problem is i dont have a very good leak light right now. my primary one fell apart.(wont say where i purchased it from) 
 
 i had a problem before with the same key on my soprano. i was starting to think i lost my ability to play. until i detected that pinhole.
 
anyway its always good to ask. thanks for the response   donn..

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: mikolekaar@...
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:15:18 -0800
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak

Check your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar 

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:       
 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.
 
 the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.  
 
 so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.
 
 if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated 
  thank you donn.

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: tenorman1952@...
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings

  It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
   
  Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
   
  You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
   
  I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
   
  Paul Coats

skygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:
      This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...   
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
  
---------------------------------
  Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail�-get your "fix". Check it out.   





  Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  
  
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 
  
---------------------------------
  Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more.   

                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

 not to mention that leak was sabotaging my altissimo range.. why it appeared out of nowhere is one of those myteries we live with. no!
 
 i now have a new project. i think i can handle the leak light idea. i guess a long skinny floresent tube  would  work well..it shouldnt be to hard to set up. not sure if i can get it to work well with the soprano. though i can insert it thru the bell.
 
 thanks again.. i live in costa rica right now so sometimes the more sophiticated and modern equipment is hard to find.. though this one should work. i had been searching for other ideas for a good leak light. and its been troublesome. the floresent light i know i can obtain...  thanks again pura vida!


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:36:16 -0800Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak



Hey Don,
You're welcome.If You can find a guy that does electronics or amp repair, and if you give him a cheep florescent lamp with the long skinny bulb, he will be ablle to make you a leek light.
                    Mikole Kaar"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:


     got it!  side c key  had a pinhole leak at about 5 oclock posistion kind of hid by the stack.. just like you said, just enough to throw me a curve.. now back to contentment..for the time being.  problem is i dont have a very good leak light right now. my primary one fell apart.(wont say where i purchased it from)   i had a problem before with the same key on my soprano. i was starting to think i lost my ability to play. until i detected that pinhole. anyway its always good to ask. thanks for the response   donn..


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:15:18 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeakCheck your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar "d_corp60@hotmail.com ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote: 


 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.  the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.    so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.  if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated   thank you donn.


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: tenorman1952@...: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings
It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
 
Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
 
You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
 
I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
 
Paul Coatsskygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:


This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and hementioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when hewas starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of themhad an asymmetrical facing.Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetricalfacings???Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":http://www.saxgourmet.comListen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from http://www.saxrax.com For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... 

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out. 

Mikole E. Kaar http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. 

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http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038



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_________________________________________________________________
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Stuff like that happens all the time.It can be from a weather change, or bumping your horn into the case or a piece of dirt or the glue moving etc.By the way is there a Jazz scene down there? I heard its a great place to visit.
                            Regards, Mikolr Kaar

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:
           not to mention that leak was sabotaging my altissimo range.. why it appeared out of nowhere is one of those myteries we live with. no!
 
 i now have a new project. i think i can handle the leak light idea. i guess a long skinny floresent tube  would  work well..it shouldnt be to hard to set up. not sure if i can get it to work well with the soprano. though i can insert it thru the bell.
 
 thanks again.. i live in costa rica right now so sometimes the more sophiticated and modern equipment is hard to find.. though this one should work. i had been searching for other ideas for a good leak light. and its been troublesome. the floresent light i know i can obtain...  thanks again pura vida!

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: mikolekaar@...
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:36:16 -0800
Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak

  Hey Don,
  You're welcome.If You can find a guy that does electronics or amp repair, and if you give him a cheep florescent lamp with the long skinny bulb, he will be ablle to make you a leek light.
                      Mikole Kaar

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:
      
     got it!  side c key  had a pinhole leak at about 5 oclock posistion kind of hid by the stack.. just like you said, just enough to throw me a curve.. now back to contentment..for the time being.
 
 problem is i dont have a very good leak light right now. my primary one fell apart.(wont say where i purchased it from) 
 
 i had a problem before with the same key on my soprano. i was starting to think i lost my ability to play. until i detected that pinhole.
 
anyway its always good to ask. thanks for the response   donn..

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: mikolekaar@...
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:15:18 -0800
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak

Check your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar 

"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:       
 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.
 
 the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.  
 
 so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.
 
 if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated 
  thank you donn.

    
---------------------------------
  To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
From: tenorman1952@...
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings

  It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
   
  Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
   
  You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
   
  I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
   
  Paul Coats

skygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:
      This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.
I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and he
mentioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when he
was starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)
and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of them
had an asymmetrical facing.
Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetrical
facings???






Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...   
---------------------------------
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
  
---------------------------------
  Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail�-get your "fix". Check it out.   





  Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  
  
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 
  
---------------------------------
  Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more.   





  Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  
  
---------------------------------
  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 
  
---------------------------------
  Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.   

                         


Mikole E. Kaar 
http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
  http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaar
Jazz Woodwinds 
Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute 
(760) 568-1038
  

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

   in the capital city san jose. there is a bit of a jazz scene there are 1 or 2 exelent places to gig or catch a gig. sometimes they have some top people come through, all in all though it is limited. you can always hook up with a salsa or merengue band and jazz it up , a lot of times they have good brass sections. in the tourist areas there are usually places that have various entertainment. on various nights. i kind of gig at different times with different people. do a lot of solo work. right now i am somewhat removed from the city. the benifit it is more beautiful and not congested ect. the downside not as much opportunity to play with sections and groups. though i stay busy.. and i can always woodshed my self to death if nothing else..
 
 it is a beautiful country.. but nowhere as near as musical as say mexico!  pura vida donn   


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:20:42 -0800Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak



Stuff like that happens all the time.It can be from a weather change, or bumping your horn into the case or a piece of dirt or the glue moving etc.By the way is there a Jazz scene down there? I heard its a great place to visit.
                          Regards, Mikolr Kaar"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:


 not to mention that leak was sabotaging my altissimo range.. why it appeared out of nowhere is one of those myteries we live with. no!  i now have a new project. i think i can handle the leak light idea. i guess a long skinny floresent tube  would  work well..it shouldnt be to hard to set up. not sure if i can get it to work well with the soprano. though i can insert it thru the bell.  thanks again.. i live in costa rica right now so sometimes the more sophiticated and modern equipment is hard to find.. though this one should work. i had been searching for other ideas for a good leak light. and its been troublesome. the floresent light i know i can obtain...  thanks again pura vida!


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:36:16 -0800Subject: RE: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeak
Hey Don,
You're welcome.If You can find a guy that does electronics or amp repair, and if you give him a cheep florescent lamp with the long skinny bulb, he will be ablle to make you a leek light.
                    Mikole Kaar"d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@...> wrote:


     got it!  side c key  had a pinhole leak at about 5 oclock posistion kind of hid by the stack.. just like you said, just enough to throw me a curve.. now back to contentment..for the time being.  problem is i dont have a very good leak light right now. my primary one fell apart.(wont say where i purchased it from)   i had a problem before with the same key on my soprano. i was starting to think i lost my ability to play. until i detected that pinhole. anyway its always good to ask. thanks for the response   donn..


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: mikolekaar@...: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:15:18 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] RE: e flat squeakCheck your neck to see if your octave key is closing all the way.Double check your palm keys, and double check you side Bb and C.Some times it doesn't look like it is leaking, but it is just enough to throw you a curve.If you don't see antthing you might heat each one of those keys I just talked about one at a time and playcheck after each key has been heated.If that doesn't get it look at your F# and Eb.Good luck.Mikole Kaar "d_corp60@... ..." <d_corp60@hotmail.com> wrote: 


 this may be a simple fix that is eluding me or that  i cant remember.  the problem..  a yamaha alto, no leaks, the second octive e flat is squeaking sometimes when i do a lick or an exercise from the upper c or b to the e flat and some times upper c or b to  d.. all in the second octive with octive key depressed . reeds make a bit of difference. but something is off. i can correct with effort..but it is not acting right.. i think i encountered this once before but cant seem to remember what it was. normally it should be rather effortless.  it just started to happen, i ran a leak light and everything is looking pretty good.    so i thought i would shoot it out to the experts. to make it a little easier on my self.. tommorow i will reasses.  if anybody has any sugestions they are well appreaciated   thank you donn.


To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.comFrom: tenorman1952@yahoo.comDate: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: asymmetrical facings
It is quite common for hard rubber mouthpieces to warp over the years, or for them to not be symmetrical in the first place.
 
Some say an assymetrical facing gives "more complex overtones".  But I have found what it does is make it more difficult to find a reed that will vibrate correctly.  
 
You often hear, "I can only find one good reed from a whole box."  Perhaps the player has found the one assymetrical reed in the box that will work well with his assymetrical facing?
 
I have found that invariably, when such a facing is corrected, the player finds that it plays easier and can find more usable reeds.
 
Paul Coatsskygardener1 <skygardener1@...> wrote:


This is an old thread, but I have some comments questions.I went to a Ron Caravan mouthpiece/reed lecture a few years ago and hementioned one thing about asymmetrical facings. He said that when hewas starting out he went around to many professors (sax and clarinet)and measured their mouthpieces and he found that nearly all of themhad an asymmetrical facing.Is there anyone here that has done experimentation with asymmetricalfacings???Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":http://www.saxgourmet.comListen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from http://www.saxrax.com For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@... 

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out. 

Mikole E. Kaar http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 

Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. 

Mikole E. Kaar http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 

Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more. 

Mikole E. Kaar http://www.myspace.com/mikolekaarmusic 
http://www.youtube.com/mikolekaarJazz Woodwinds Saxes, Clarinets, Bassoon, Flute (760) 568-1038



Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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This thread kind of reminds me of the old Moms Mabley joke.  She was 
always on stage without her dentures.  She said she had some new ones 
made, but they hurt so bad she was trying to get her money back.  The 
dentist wouldn't do it.  He said that there was nothing wrong with them 
and they fit him just fine.

If you're making a piece for somebody else, how do you know which part 
to make asymetrical?

"If you're making a piece for somebody else, how do you know which part 
to make asymetrical?"
   
  There was actually a section in the old Eric Brand manual about this.  If a customer had a mouthpiece that he really liked the way it played, you measured and kept a record of his facing, and could duplicate that on other mouthpieces.
   
  Paul


flemingml2000 <marklfleming@...> wrote:
          This thread kind of reminds me of the old Moms Mabley joke. She was 
always on stage without her dentures. She said she had some new ones 
made, but they hurt so bad she was trying to get her money back. The 
dentist wouldn't do it. He said that there was nothing wrong with them 
and they fit him just fine.

If you're making a piece for somebody else, how do you know which part 
to make asymetrical?



                         


Link to Paul's articles from Main page of "Saxgourmet":
		http://www.saxgourmet.com
Listen to Paul's MP3's and view saxophone photos at:
           http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

Paul Coats is the sole US importer of SAXRAX products from 
http://www.saxrax.com 
For SAXRAX products, email Paul at saxraxus@...
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.