I'm making great progress on "KB13" - one of Mojo's tenor blanks.  
Everything from low F to high F speaks beautifully and the altissimo 
nearly speaks for itself.  But low E and below is not speaking well.  
I've played the piece on three different tenors and get the same 
effect, so I'm resolving myself that I have more facing work to do.

I milled and filed the baffle into a long roll so it's not nearly so 
high.  The tip is around .104".  I've run the facing length into the 
50's (1/2 mm) and still can't get it to play the low end.

Before I post my lay schedule (and I'm using the spreadsheet to keep 
me in the radial ballpark), I'm wondering if higher baffle pieces 
require longer lays so they speak better at the low end or is that 
just the nature of high baffle pieces that the low end doesn't come 
as easy. Maybe I need to lower the back end of the baffle more?  I 
have more curvature (a tighter radius) towards the tip.  So maybe I'm 
trading off high end performance to low end resistance?

If I'm stuck for much longer, I'll post my current schedule.

Can't wait to finish with this screamer.  It sounds awesome, though 
I'm not quite sure why someone would want to play a horn so loudly!

I would not go longer than 52 with a .104" tip.  If your facing curve is
good and you still have low note response problems, I would suspect the
baffle is too high and is choking off the sound.  Mine were bad before I
worked the baffle.



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 

Hey, Keith - If my schedule is good, are you recommending I lower the 
back end of the baffle towards the throat or the front end towards 
the tip?  I've taken the whole baffle down some - more towards the 
throat.  When I reach the next stage of what I consider to be 
progress, I'll send you some pictures if you'd like.  Maybe even 
shoot you a .wav.  .104" is a little open for my blood, so I'm going 
to work the front of the table some and reset my targets.  Thanks for 
the input.

- Ed

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Keith Bradbury 
<kwbradbury@y...> wrote:
> I would not go longer than 52 with a .104" tip.  If your facing 
curve is
> good and you still have low note response problems, I would suspect 
the
> baffle is too high and is choking off the sound.  Mine were bad 
before I
> worked the baffle.

I think these blanks need, as a minimum, to be lowered .100" at the throat
end.  They still will be plenty bright, but will at least start to speak
better on the low notes.  Keep lowering it until you get a sound you like.

If you make a large bullet chamber, you should be able to remove enough
material that it will have the same effect as lowering the baffle.  Or you
can do a combo of both.



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 

Thanks, Keith.  I've taken the throat end of the baffle down around 
that much but maybe need to go a bit farther.  Taking things slowly 
as brass doesn't grow back if you trim off too much!

I used a large bullet chamber as Keith described and am delighted with the
results.

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Bradbury [mailto:kwbradbury@...] 
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:10 AM
To: MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MouthpieceWork] Re: High baffle - longer lay?



I think these blanks need, as a minimum, to be lowered .100" at the throat
end.  They still will be plenty bright, but will at least start to speak
better on the low notes.  Keep lowering it until you get a sound you like.

If you make a large bullet chamber, you should be able to remove enough
material that it will have the same effect as lowering the baffle.  Or you
can do a combo of both.



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 




Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the
Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 

Hi there---

I don't think having a high baffle necessarily requires a longer lay. 
For example, the Rico Royal Metalites have a very high baffle, but 
the facing length is 24mm (48). Assuming that the facing is put on 
correctly and the low end is not speaking easily, what I have found 
to work pretty well is to lengthen or enlarge the bottom of the 
window so the vamp part of the reed can vibrate easier. A warning: if 
you remove too much of the window, you can get a raspy response in  
the low notes. Remove a little and play test.

What you could try is widen the bottom of the window. Usually the 
bottom of the window is a semi-circular shape.  What you can do is 
flatten the bottom of the window by removing material from the side 
rail area at the bottom of the window.  You can also cut the window 
down deeper by removing material at the bottom of the window.

Again, this is non reversable.  If you remove too much and you do not 
like the sound, you cannot fix it. Remove a little and see if the 
desired effect is achieved...

Just to let you know, I did not remove any material at the bottom of 
the window on my metal blank.


--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "zed_saxmaniax" <zed@s...> 
wrote:
> 
> I'm making great progress on "KB13" - one of Mojo's tenor blanks.  
> Everything from low F to high F speaks beautifully and the 
altissimo 
> nearly speaks for itself.  But low E and below is not speaking 
well.  
> I've played the piece on three different tenors and get the same 
> effect, so I'm resolving myself that I have more facing work to do.
> 
> I milled and filed the baffle into a long roll so it's not nearly 
so 
> high.  The tip is around .104".  I've run the facing length into 
the 
> 50's (1/2 mm) and still can't get it to play the low end.
> 
> Before I post my lay schedule (and I'm using the spreadsheet to 
keep 
> me in the radial ballpark), I'm wondering if higher baffle pieces 
> require longer lays so they speak better at the low end or is that 
> just the nature of high baffle pieces that the low end doesn't come 
> as easy. Maybe I need to lower the back end of the baffle more?  I 
> have more curvature (a tighter radius) towards the tip.  So maybe 
I'm 
> trading off high end performance to low end resistance?
> 
> If I'm stuck for much longer, I'll post my current schedule.
> 
> Can't wait to finish with this screamer.  It sounds awesome, though 
> I'm not quite sure why someone would want to play a horn so loudly!

Thanks for the tips.  I've determined that I've got more work to do 
on the lay schedule before hogging out the baffle any further.  The 
notes "towards the tip" are playing so well that I've been wary of 
venturing into those waters and taking any more material off.  My 
finished schedule will be more elliptical than radial, but right now 
it is TOO elliptical.  The lay schedule is too "Jekyll and Hyde" when 
it comes to short facing and long lacing characteristics.  I think if 
I work the transition a bit more and keep the facing length around 50 
that the mud will settle.  There's enough "taint" left at the bottom 
of the window (t'aint quite table, t'aint quite chamber) that I have 
some room to salvage the facing length without turning this thing 
into a Rovner "Deep V".

Being tired of looking at shiny brass, I shifted gears yesterday 
towards perfecting my favorite old Geo Bundy sop piece into an E/F 
facing.  Ahhhh.  Instant gratification...

Metalites are somewhat unique in that the baffle drops off from the
tip quite sharply, which drastically relieves the tendency of high
baffle pieces to chirp and squeak...

jeff

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Willis" <sk8nsax@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi there---
> 
> I don't think having a high baffle necessarily requires a longer lay. 
> For example, the Rico Royal Metalites have a very high baffle, but 
> the facing length is 24mm (48). Assuming that the facing is put on 
> correctly and the low end is not speaking easily, what I have found 
> to work pretty well is to lengthen or enlarge the bottom of the 
> window so the vamp part of the reed can vibrate easier. A warning: if 
> you remove too much of the window, you can get a raspy response in  
> the low notes. Remove a little and play test.
> 
> What you could try is widen the bottom of the window. Usually the 
> bottom of the window is a semi-circular shape.  What you can do is 
> flatten the bottom of the window by removing material from the side 
> rail area at the bottom of the window.  You can also cut the window 
> down deeper by removing material at the bottom of the window.
> 
> Again, this is non reversable.  If you remove too much and you do not 
> like the sound, you cannot fix it. Remove a little and see if the 
> desired effect is achieved...
> 
> Just to let you know, I did not remove any material at the bottom of 
> the window on my metal blank.
> 
> 
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "zed_saxmaniax" <zed@s...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > I'm making great progress on "KB13" - one of Mojo's tenor blanks.  
> > Everything from low F to high F speaks beautifully and the 
> altissimo 
> > nearly speaks for itself.  But low E and below is not speaking 
> well.  
> > I've played the piece on three different tenors and get the same 
> > effect, so I'm resolving myself that I have more facing work to do.
> > 
> > I milled and filed the baffle into a long roll so it's not nearly 
> so 
> > high.  The tip is around .104".  I've run the facing length into 
> the 
> > 50's (1/2 mm) and still can't get it to play the low end.
> > 
> > Before I post my lay schedule (and I'm using the spreadsheet to 
> keep 
> > me in the radial ballpark), I'm wondering if higher baffle pieces 
> > require longer lays so they speak better at the low end or is that 
> > just the nature of high baffle pieces that the low end doesn't come 
> > as easy. Maybe I need to lower the back end of the baffle more?  I 
> > have more curvature (a tighter radius) towards the tip.  So maybe 
> I'm 
> > trading off high end performance to low end resistance?
> > 
> > If I'm stuck for much longer, I'll post my current schedule.
> > 
> > Can't wait to finish with this screamer.  It sounds awesome, though 
> > I'm not quite sure why someone would want to play a horn so loudly!

Well, the facing length is back at 50 the tip opening around 0.095", 
and my long, rolling baffle is now shallow enough at the throat to 
barely eliminate the "bullet".  Lowering the baffle near the throat 
gave the sound a lot more mid/low "body" without robbing 
projection/volume.  Also, the schedule is a little more radial, 
though still a tighter towards the tip.  Low end response is still a 
little mucky - slightly improved.

I haven't opened the window, though I may consider doing so once I do 
some more baffle tuning towards the tip (just to be sure that's not 
the source of my troubles).

Great satisfaction was achieved from machine buffing it gradually 
down to red rouge.  If nothing else, KB13 will turn out to be a 
gorgeous little paperweight!  Actually, I expect it to be a great 
source of pride and decibels when I'm done with it...

That was not a design feature that was for playing characteristics... 
the baffle drop off from the tip made them resistant.

That feature was because the facing was not machined on, but rather, 
molded on.  They used the same core dies for the chamber, and simply 
changed the facing/table dies to accomplish various facings.  Other than 
stamping on the logos, there was almost no other touch from human hands 
in making the Metalite/Graftonite mouthpieces.

The facings for the Ricos was quite long, making the large tip openings 
easier to play.

Paul

sjrosner wrote:

>
> Metalites are somewhat unique in that the baffle drops off from the
> tip quite sharply, which drastically relieves the tendency of high
> baffle pieces to chirp and squeak...
>
> jeff
>
> --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Willis" <sk8nsax@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there---
> >
> > I don't think having a high baffle necessarily requires a longer lay.
> > For example, the Rico Royal Metalites have a very high baffle, but
> > the facing length is 24mm (48). Assuming that the facing is put on
> > correctly and the low end is not speaking easily, what I have found
> > to work pretty well is to lengthen or enlarge the bottom of the
> > window so the vamp part of the reed can vibrate easier. A warning: if
> > you remove too much of the window, you can get a raspy response in 
> > the low notes. Remove a little and play test.
> >
> > What you could try is widen the bottom of the window. Usually the
> > bottom of the window is a semi-circular shape.  What you can do is
> > flatten the bottom of the window by removing material from the side
> > rail area at the bottom of the window.  You can also cut the window
> > down deeper by removing material at the bottom of the window.
> >
> > Again, this is non reversable.  If you remove too much and you do not
> > like the sound, you cannot fix it. Remove a little and see if the
> > desired effect is achieved...
> >
> > Just to let you know, I did not remove any material at the bottom of
> > the window on my metal blank.
> >
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "zed_saxmaniax" <zed@s...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm making great progress on "KB13" - one of Mojo's tenor blanks. 
> > > Everything from low F to high F speaks beautifully and the
> > altissimo
> > > nearly speaks for itself.  But low E and below is not speaking
> > well. 
> > > I've played the piece on three different tenors and get the same
> > > effect, so I'm resolving myself that I have more facing work to do.
> > >
> > > I milled and filed the baffle into a long roll so it's not nearly
> > so
> > > high.  The tip is around .104".  I've run the facing length into
> > the
> > > 50's (1/2 mm) and still can't get it to play the low end.
> > >
> > > Before I post my lay schedule (and I'm using the spreadsheet to
> > keep
> > > me in the radial ballpark), I'm wondering if higher baffle pieces
> > > require longer lays so they speak better at the low end or is that
> > > just the nature of high baffle pieces that the low end doesn't come
> > > as easy. Maybe I need to lower the back end of the baffle more?  I
> > > have more curvature (a tighter radius) towards the tip.  So maybe
> > I'm
> > > trading off high end performance to low end resistance?
> > >
> > > If I'm stuck for much longer, I'll post my current schedule.
> > >
> > > Can't wait to finish with this screamer.  It sounds awesome, though
> > > I'm not quite sure why someone would want to play a horn so loudly!
>
>
>
>
>
> Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
>
> Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
>
> To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG9e5nkj0/M)8184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=grplch/S05032198:HM/EXP09391559/A%93423/R=0/SIGel9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso`190075> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
>        
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>        
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

It does seem to make them squeak-proof, however...

--- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, Paul Coats <tenorman@t...> wrote:
> That was not a design feature that was for playing characteristics... 
> the baffle drop off from the tip made them resistant.
> 
> That feature was because the facing was not machined on, but rather, 
> molded on.  They used the same core dies for the chamber, and simply 
> changed the facing/table dies to accomplish various facings.  Other
than 
> stamping on the logos, there was almost no other touch from human hands 
> in making the Metalite/Graftonite mouthpieces.
> 
> The facings for the Ricos was quite long, making the large tip openings 
> easier to play.
> 
> Paul
> 
> sjrosner wrote:
> 
> >
> > Metalites are somewhat unique in that the baffle drops off from the
> > tip quite sharply, which drastically relieves the tendency of high
> > baffle pieces to chirp and squeak...
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Willis" <sk8nsax@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi there---
> > >
> > > I don't think having a high baffle necessarily requires a longer
lay.
> > > For example, the Rico Royal Metalites have a very high baffle, but
> > > the facing length is 24mm (48). Assuming that the facing is put on
> > > correctly and the low end is not speaking easily, what I have found
> > > to work pretty well is to lengthen or enlarge the bottom of the
> > > window so the vamp part of the reed can vibrate easier. A
warning: if
> > > you remove too much of the window, you can get a raspy response in 
> > > the low notes. Remove a little and play test.
> > >
> > > What you could try is widen the bottom of the window. Usually the
> > > bottom of the window is a semi-circular shape.  What you can do is
> > > flatten the bottom of the window by removing material from the side
> > > rail area at the bottom of the window.  You can also cut the window
> > > down deeper by removing material at the bottom of the window.
> > >
> > > Again, this is non reversable.  If you remove too much and you
do not
> > > like the sound, you cannot fix it. Remove a little and see if the
> > > desired effect is achieved...
> > >
> > > Just to let you know, I did not remove any material at the bottom of
> > > the window on my metal blank.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "zed_saxmaniax" <zed@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm making great progress on "KB13" - one of Mojo's tenor blanks. 
> > > > Everything from low F to high F speaks beautifully and the
> > > altissimo
> > > > nearly speaks for itself.  But low E and below is not speaking
> > > well. 
> > > > I've played the piece on three different tenors and get the same
> > > > effect, so I'm resolving myself that I have more facing work
to do.
> > > >
> > > > I milled and filed the baffle into a long roll so it's not nearly
> > > so
> > > > high.  The tip is around .104".  I've run the facing length into
> > > the
> > > > 50's (1/2 mm) and still can't get it to play the low end.
> > > >
> > > > Before I post my lay schedule (and I'm using the spreadsheet to
> > > keep
> > > > me in the radial ballpark), I'm wondering if higher baffle pieces
> > > > require longer lays so they speak better at the low end or is that
> > > > just the nature of high baffle pieces that the low end doesn't
come
> > > > as easy. Maybe I need to lower the back end of the baffle more?  I
> > > > have more curvature (a tighter radius) towards the tip.  So maybe
> > > I'm
> > > > trading off high end performance to low end resistance?
> > > >
> > > > If I'm stuck for much longer, I'll post my current schedule.
> > > >
> > > > Can't wait to finish with this screamer.  It sounds awesome,
though
> > > > I'm not quite sure why someone would want to play a horn so
loudly!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see 
> > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
> >
> > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG9e5nkj0/M)8184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=grplch/S05032198:HM/EXP09391559/A%93423/R=0/SIGel9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso`190075>

> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork/
> >        
> >     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >       MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >      
<mailto:MouthpieceWork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >        
> >     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >